Tiger Woods - Page 6

spleen1015 · 06-19-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Huh. I've always seen guys blow out their ACLs writhing on the ground in pain and figured an ACL rupture was debilitating. I guess my patella rupture gives me a distorted perception of an ACL rupture.

But considering how much twisting your knee does during a golf swing -- and especially Tiger's swing -- it's simply amazing.

How bad must everyone else feel that Tiger can still beat them with a blown out ACL and two stress fractures in his tibia? And more to the point, how badly will he kick everyone's ass when he is back to full strength in six months? He may win Augusta and the U.S. Open by 15 strokes again.

At the moment something broke, it hurt like hell. It is the worst pain I think I have ever felt in my life. I was one of those guys on the ground writhing in pain.

But, a few days later, the pain was gone.

CU Tiger · 06-19-2008, 09:31 PM

Ive had both ACLs replaced (one cadaver ; one pig) and in each case it was a sharp ripping sting followed by swelling and pressure. Once the swelling went down it was a jello unstable jerky feeling but no pain.

Both ACLs were complete tears, and one also collected both exterior MCLs. that one pretty much makes you immobile. But the ACL only I actually elected to wait 3 weeks to have the urgery because I had a vacation planned

Vince · 06-20-2008, 01:31 AM

Apologies for not reading the thread first (what a noob), but I'm off to bed. Heard a great question on the radio today, and was curious as to everyone's opinion on here.

On the off chance that the worst-case scenario plays out, something goes horribly wrong, and Tiger Woods never plays professional golf again, is he going to be considered the best golfer to have ever played the game?

I'll take my answer off the air.

KWhit · 06-20-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

Apologies for not reading the thread first (what a noob), but I'm off to bed. Heard a great question on the radio today, and was curious as to everyone's opinion on here.

On the off chance that the worst-case scenario plays out, something goes horribly wrong, and Tiger Woods never plays professional golf again, is he going to be considered the best golfer to have ever played the game?

I'll take my answer off the air.

Yes. No question. (although perish the thought of that happening)...

Even though Jack won more over his career, Tiger has been much more dominating. He wins about half the tournaments he plays in and is in contention in every single one of them.

Dr. Sak · 06-20-2008, 08:31 AM

See I dont think he would be the greatest. I think Jack would still be considered the greatest...yes Tiger is dominate but I think Jack played against superior competition and was successful for a much longer period of time.

Shkspr · 06-20-2008, 08:42 AM

Then you are wrong.

Dr. Sak · 06-20-2008, 08:47 AM

Jack had 18 major wins...17 second place finishes in majors...and played in something like 150+ consecutive majors.

Look at the players today, Els, Mickelson, Goosen, Singh, Jansen, Stewart,...are the only ones off the top of my head that have more than 1 major under their belt during Tiger's era.

Compare that to Trevino, Player, Palmer, Watson, Hale Irwin, Billy Casper, Seve Ballesteros, Raymond Floyd who had multiple ones during Jack's era.

Yes Tiger has won more money but we are in a totally different era when it comes to that.

Buccaneer · 06-20-2008, 08:57 AM

We're going to get into the Peak Value vs Career Value debate again?

Eaglesfan27 · 06-20-2008, 08:59 AM

I think your argument works against your point bsak. More guys don't have more than 1 major because Tiger wins such a huge percentage of them - much more than Nicklaus ever did during his career. Tiger is clearly the greatest in my opinion.

BrianD · 06-20-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

We're going to get into the Peak Value vs Career Value debate again?

Looks like it.

Dr. Sak · 06-20-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think your argument works against your point bsak. More guys don't have more than 1 major because Tiger wins such a huge percentage of them - much more than Nicklaus ever did during his career. Tiger is clearly the greatest in my opinion.

See I don't see it that way but can see how you do. I think the golfers on Nickalus' list are superior to the ones on Tiger's. I think if Tiger had better competition he wouldn't have won as many.

BrianD · 06-20-2008, 09:06 AM

I don't think you can point to a lack of competition for Tiger. How many guys hold PGA tour cards? 150? 250? It is a bunch, and unlike Jack's time when all of these guys were self taught with ugly swings, all of Tiger's competition have been training to be pro golfers for many years. They all have the same micro-managed swings and professional instructors.

Dr. Sak · 06-20-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

I don't think you can point to a lack of competition for Tiger. How many guys hold PGA tour cards? 150? 250? It is a bunch, and unlike Jack's time when all of these guys were self taught with ugly swings, all of Tiger's competition have been training to be pro golfers for many years. They all have the same micro-managed swings and professional instructors.

I see golfers today not as driven because of the amount of money out there on the PGA Tour. The golfers back in Jack's era played every week because they NEEDED the money. Now golfers just pick and choose events they play in.

Just look at Tiger's cut streak. Yeah it is amazing but at the same time there were at least 5 tournaments in that streak that had no cut.

Mike1409 · 06-20-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince

Apologies for not reading the thread first (what a noob), but I'm off to bed. Heard a great question on the radio today, and was curious as to everyone's opinion on here.

On the off chance that the worst-case scenario plays out, something goes horribly wrong, and Tiger Woods never plays professional golf again, is he going to be considered the best golfer to have ever played the game?

I'll take my answer off the air.

NO

Marmel · 06-20-2008, 09:57 AM

I completely agree with bsak here. There is barely any competition on tour right now. Mickleson is Tiger's top competitor? The guy is an absolute head case and is very lucky to have the majors he does. The top 10 money winners this year is a pretty depressing list of golfers:

1 Tiger Woods 6 $5,775,000
2 Phil Mickelson 14 $3,959,500
3 Justin Leonard 16 $2,933,657
4 Geoff Ogilvy 14 $2,745,454
5 Stewart Cink 15 $2,638,671
6 Kenny Perry 17 $2,481,100
7 Ryuji Imada 15 $2,423,877
8 Sergio Garcia 12 $2,397,170
9 Vijay Singh 15 $2,342,531
10 Boo Weekley 17 $2,177,282

I would also agree that the money is so incredibly good in golf right now (thanks to Tiger) that there is no need for these guys to push themselves to be the best. Why would you put all that time and effort in to challenge Tiger when you are still going to pull in 10 mil a year between the tour and sponsors?

KWhit · 06-20-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsak16

Just look at Tiger's cut streak. Yeah it is amazing but at the same time there were at least 5 tournaments in that streak that had no cut.

He played in 142 straight tournaments without missing a cut, just obliterating the old record by Byron Nelson

That number is ridiculous.

And note that there were also quite a few tournaments in Nelson's streak that didn't have a cut as well.

Dr. Sak · 06-20-2008, 11:31 AM

But if I am not mistaken...back when Nelson played only 30 or 35 made the cut....where as now it is 70.

KWhit · 06-20-2008, 11:50 AM

Yeah, I think it's pretty impossible to compare the two, because the competition, field size, number of players who make the cut etc. are all so different across the eras. I was more reiterating the craziness of the length of the streak. 142 tournaments. That's just unreal.

Vince · 06-21-2008, 11:36 AM

My point of view is a bit different. I think that it's nearly impossible to compare the two across eras, so if Tiger were to never play golf professionally again, I think the debate would rage on forever. I think that he has a legitimate claim at the title right now, with nothing else done - but it's hardly a slam dunk.

If he comes back and continues to dominate, however, I think there is no question that he will be the greatest golfer ever.

Young Drachma · 06-21-2008, 11:54 AM

Tiger has been dominant on the world stage since he was 8.

He's competing in the television era when mass media is at its height and where child prodigies get chewed up and spit out.

Comparing across generations obviously is flawed since Tiger would've faced lots of odds to play golf during a different era, just because of the difference in social conditions, but that said, if he never played another hole he'd be the best that ever walked 18.

Competition now isn't worse, the equipment is better than ever before and mostly, there is saturation. I think lots of golfers on the tour now would've been successful in the way golf used to be played. But it's adapted and Tiger has shown an ability to win in a ton of different ways. He doesn't beat you by just bombing it, he can beat you pretty much any way you handicap it.

No question.

Dr. Sak · 06-23-2008, 07:36 PM

I thought this was a funny article...

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/go...urn=golf,89355

Dr. Sak · 07-17-2008, 02:00 PM

Rocco Mediate shares the lead in first round of The British Open with a -1.

06-20-2008, 01:31 AM	#253
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	Apologies for not reading the thread first (what a noob), but I'm off to bed. Heard a great question on the radio today, and was curious as to everyone's opinion on here. On the off chance that the worst-case scenario plays out, something goes horribly wrong, and Tiger Woods never plays professional golf again, is he going to be considered the best golfer to have ever played the game? I'll take my answer off the air. __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

06-20-2008, 08:59 AM	#259
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	I think your argument works against your point bsak. More guys don't have more than 1 major because Tiger wins such a huge percentage of them - much more than Nicklaus ever did during his career. Tiger is clearly the greatest in my opinion. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

06-20-2008, 09:57 AM	#265
Marmel Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Manchester, CT	I completely agree with bsak here. There is barely any competition on tour right now. Mickleson is Tiger's top competitor? The guy is an absolute head case and is very lucky to have the majors he does. The top 10 money winners this year is a pretty depressing list of golfers: 1 Tiger Woods 6 $5,775,000 2 Phil Mickelson 14 $3,959,500 3 Justin Leonard 16 $2,933,657 4 Geoff Ogilvy 14 $2,745,454 5 Stewart Cink 15 $2,638,671 6 Kenny Perry 17 $2,481,100 7 Ryuji Imada 15 $2,423,877 8 Sergio Garcia 12 $2,397,170 9 Vijay Singh 15 $2,342,531 10 Boo Weekley 17 $2,177,282 I would also agree that the money is so incredibly good in golf right now (thanks to Tiger) that there is no need for these guys to push themselves to be the best. Why would you put all that time and effort in to challenge Tiger when you are still going to pull in 10 mil a year between the tour and sponsors? __________________ 81-78 Cincinnati basketball writer P. Daugherty, "Connor Barwin playing several minutes against Syracuse is like kids with slingshots taking down Caesar's legions."

06-21-2008, 11:36 AM	#269
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	My point of view is a bit different. I think that it's nearly impossible to compare the two across eras, so if Tiger were to never play golf professionally again, I think the debate would rage on forever. I think that he has a legitimate claim at the title right now, with nothing else done - but it's hardly a slam dunk. If he comes back and continues to dominate, however, I think there is no question that he will be the greatest golfer ever. __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com. Last edited by Vince : 06-21-2008 at 11:37 AM.

06-21-2008, 11:54 AM	#270
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Tiger has been dominant on the world stage since he was 8. He's competing in the television era when mass media is at its height and where child prodigies get chewed up and spit out. Comparing across generations obviously is flawed since Tiger would've faced lots of odds to play golf during a different era, just because of the difference in social conditions, but that said, if he never played another hole he'd be the best that ever walked 18. Competition now isn't worse, the equipment is better than ever before and mostly, there is saturation. I think lots of golfers on the tour now would've been successful in the way golf used to be played. But it's adapted and Tiger has shown an ability to win in a ton of different ways. He doesn't beat you by just bombing it, he can beat you pretty much any way you handicap it. No question. Last edited by Young Drachma : 06-21-2008 at 11:56 AM.

06-19-2008, 09:31 PM	#252
CU Tiger Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Backwoods, SC	Ive had both ACLs replaced (one cadaver ; one pig) and in each case it was a sharp ripping sting followed by swelling and pressure. Once the swelling went down it was a jello unstable jerky feeling but no pain. Both ACLs were complete tears, and one also collected both exterior MCLs. that one pretty much makes you immobile. But the ACL only I actually elected to wait 3 weeks to have the urgery because I had a vacation planned

06-20-2008, 08:31 AM	#255
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	See I dont think he would be the greatest. I think Jack would still be considered the greatest...yes Tiger is dominate but I think Jack played against superior competition and was successful for a much longer period of time.

06-20-2008, 08:42 AM	#256
Shkspr College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Amarillo, TX	Then you are wrong.

06-20-2008, 08:47 AM	#257
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	Jack had 18 major wins...17 second place finishes in majors...and played in something like 150+ consecutive majors. Look at the players today, Els, Mickelson, Goosen, Singh, Jansen, Stewart,...are the only ones off the top of my head that have more than 1 major under their belt during Tiger's era. Compare that to Trevino, Player, Palmer, Watson, Hale Irwin, Billy Casper, Seve Ballesteros, Raymond Floyd who had multiple ones during Jack's era. Yes Tiger has won more money but we are in a totally different era when it comes to that.

06-20-2008, 08:57 AM	#258
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	We're going to get into the Peak Value vs Career Value debate again?

06-20-2008, 09:06 AM	#262
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	I don't think you can point to a lack of competition for Tiger. How many guys hold PGA tour cards? 150? 250? It is a bunch, and unlike Jack's time when all of these guys were self taught with ugly swings, all of Tiger's competition have been training to be pro golfers for many years. They all have the same micro-managed swings and professional instructors.

06-20-2008, 11:31 AM	#267
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	But if I am not mistaken...back when Nelson played only 30 or 35 made the cut....where as now it is 70.

06-20-2008, 11:50 AM	#268
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Yeah, I think it's pretty impossible to compare the two, because the competition, field size, number of players who make the cut etc. are all so different across the eras. I was more reiterating the craziness of the length of the streak. 142 tournaments. That's just unreal.

06-23-2008, 07:36 PM	#271
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	I thought this was a funny article... http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/go...urn=golf,89355

07-17-2008, 02:00 PM	#272
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	Rocco Mediate shares the lead in first round of The British Open with a -1.

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