Champions Online

[Bonegavel]

http://www.champions-online.com/

I played City of Heroes for a lot longer than I thought I would but ultimately grew extremely bored with it.

Looking forward to seeing what they can do with this.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

http://www.champions-online.com/

I played City of Heroes for a lot longer than I thought I would but ultimately grew extremely bored with it.

Looking forward to seeing what they can do with this.

Very interesting, but I'm not all that certain a MMO can do a table top game much justice. I think Warhammer Online has a chance to be the exception, but from the ground up its much more suited for a MMO.

I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it, but I'm pessimistic that this will turn out to be anything more than a recycled City of Heroes.

[Anthony]

the graphics look tons better than COH. looks pretty cool, i'll keep an eye on it. when's the projected release date?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

the graphics look tons better than COH. looks pretty cool, i'll keep an eye on it. when's the projected release date?

Spring 2009. Very interesting that Cryptic would go to another superhero game after giving up City of Heroes. Champions was always way too much math for my tastes, but I'll certainly keep an eye on this.

[GrantDawg]

I used to love Champions. Man, talk about taking me back to 1982.

[Calis]

Champions was such a horribly exploitable system.

Good times though.

I'd go for Freedom Force Online, lets see that. Better yet I'd like to just see a new Freedom Force.

[Crim]

I loved me some Champions. Here's where I prove my dorkness: Crim was my main hero's nickname.

[sachmo71]

Not sure if I like the idea of buttonmashing...

Up until now, the combat mechanics of one MMO has been a lot like the next. A player selects a target, triggers an attack and either uses another attack or waits for the first one to recharge. In some cases, the game even provides players with an auto attack feature so that they don’t need to keep mashing the same attack key again and again. Auto-attack is so common that players have even come up with a nickname for this gameplay: click "A" and pray. Yawn.

This all changes with the debut of Champions Online! Players instantly leap into action as soon as they hit a button. Once an animation completes, the player can attack again. There are no lengthy recharge times, and no boring auto attack. Instead, Champions Online has the fast-paced gameplay normally found only in fighting or action games. Years of work on the Cryptic Engine has allowed us to create combat unlike any other MMORPG on the market.

Combat in Champions Online is breathless and action packed, but it's much more than mindless button mashing. Every encounter also requires strategy. Champions Online delivers villains with unique abilities that players must take into account. Each battle requires the player to utilize his or her powers to the fullest in order to triumph. Players need to stay sharp, to use the environment, and to plan thoroughly before they leap into action. But even the best plan can go awry when face to face with the enemy, so players must be prepared to improvise.

Players square off not only against hordes of henchmen and their leaders, but also countless costumed villains drawn from the rich lore of Champions. Doctor Destroyer. Grond. Foxbat. Menton. Anklysaur. Mechanon. Firewing. And many, many more.

Some battles will be more difficult than others, and many will test even the most battle-hardened heroes. And sometimes, it will help to have a superteam of friends to back you up when the going gets tough!

In Champions Online, the epic fights between heroes and villains are unforgettable from one adventure to the next. Every battle will be different, but they will all have one thing in common: the stakes are high, the action electrifying, and the pace exhilarating!

[DanGarion]

But do I get to roll 23d6 for my OCV and 19d6 for my DCV still?

ugh. I hated rolling so many dice.

[ntndeacon]

Foxbat will be fun. I have had several Champions characters. Like Gecko

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by dangarion

But do I get to roll 23d6 for my OCV and 19d6 for my DCV still?

ugh. I hated rolling so many dice.

Yeah, that was the funny thing about that game. You'd basically have to find every 6 sided die in a 2 mile block to roll combat.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Yeah, that was the funny thing about that game. You'd basically have to find every 6 sided die in a 2 mile block to roll combat.

I always hated it because of this. I've always been a math wiz, but when it came to simple math my brain always had issues (adding / subtracting), so I got tired of champions very quickly, even though it was fun!

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by dangarion

I always hated it because of this. I've always been a math wiz, but when it came to simple math my brain always had issues (adding / subtracting), so I got tired of champions very quickly, even though it was fun!

It always seemed to be a powergamer's dream as you could easily min/max a character and make him incredibly overpowered. It was still a fun system that I enjoyed, although more as a diversion than anything else.

[sachmo71]

Countdown now on the site...38 days till release!

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Countdown now on the site...38 days till release!

I thought this was still about a year away?

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Atocep

It always seemed to be a powergamer's dream as you could easily min/max a character and make him incredibly overpowered. It was still a fun system that I enjoyed, although more as a diversion than anything else.

Power: Flight.
Usage: Always on.
Restrictions: Only usable when feet are not touching the ground.

[Calis]

I thought this was a year or more away as well. Sure has been quiet for being that close.

[sachmo71]

Well, there's a countdown for something on the site.
*SHURG*

[sachmo71]

looks like the countdown is for the beta.

i think.

[Calis]

I saw this looking around.

"Over this past weekend, Cryptic updated the official website with a new countdown timer. What is it counting down to? A new trailer? More screenshots? A full-on media blitz? Perhaps even the beginning of beta sign-ups? It’s also possible that the countdown is unrelated to Champions Online at all. Cryptic is also working on a number of other projects, including the upcoming Star Trek Online game. The timer could be counting down to an official announcement on that front. Only time will tell, but it’s certain that the community is in for 41 days of guessing and speculation!"

Few weeks old. I guess they've never specifically said.

[sachmo71]

2k is going to publish Champions Online.


http://www.crypticstudios.com/index....=205&Itemid=31

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I used to love Champions. Man, talk about taking me back to 1982.

Tell me about it. I used to spoend hours designing characters and working out poewrs and such. Good times

Originally Posted by Calis

Champions was such a horribly exploitable system.

Good times though.

I'd go for Freedom Force Online, lets see that. Better yet I'd like to just see a new Freedom Force.

The first edition was very exploitable, 2nd fixed a lot aand the newest versions really keep things well controlled.

Originally Posted by Atocep

It always seemed to be a powergamer's dream as you could easily min/max a character and make him incredibly overpowered. It was still a fun system that I enjoyed, although more as a diversion than anything else.

This was easy to avoid really, simply limit the points base. The game originally called for 200 point superhereos and 100 point heros If I recall. We never allowed more than 100 point super heros and 50 point heros and we never had a major issue with overpowered characters. If they overloaded on something they left the rest of their character far too weak to be useful.

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Power: Flight.
Usage: Always on.
Restrictions: Only usable when feet are not touching the ground.

See now here is where the GM has to step up and slap the player around a bit. Thats not a valid restriction so would gain no bonuses, Flight being always on was never allowed in our games either. I guess we just knew what we wanted in the RPG world we created and stuck with it. God knows I've seen how some people create things though.

One player created a 10Killing blow armor pericing attack. alone that should have cost like 300 points or sometihng, but he threw like a dozen limitations on it, half of which I would never have allowed and said it cost like 38 points. Rediculous crap. We only allowed him to use premade characters after that first game. He was a decent player, but he tried to overload everything.

[sachmo71]

Hands on previews by a number of game review sites. I'm resisting the hype as much as possible, but damn, this could be a significant gaming experience for me.


Playing Champions Online | Champions Online Official Site

[cuervo72]

From the IGN review:

Billed as an action oriented game, the combat of Champions Online takes a leaf (pixel?) from console games and is more active / reactive. Every enemy has a "shtick," a signature move that telegraphs so you can prepare for it. Sure, you can ignore it and hope it doesn't do too much damage to you, but you are better off blocking, a single button move, to avoid the worst of that attack.

Sounds like Punch-Out, but with superheroes. Not sure about this.

[DataKing]

Necro alert.

I'll be checking out the Beta over the next couple of weeks, trying to decide whether or not to give this a shot when it goes live next month. I'll post some impressions here later this week.

[cubboyroy1826]

I saw this at Gencon and the game looks very cool.

[Capital]

I have not pre-bought the game yet, but was considering it. I believe that they are planning on opening up the beta to pre buyers. Do you know if that has happened yet? I think that the launch is September 4th.

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by Capital

I have not pre-bought the game yet, but was considering it. I believe that they are planning on opening up the beta to pre buyers. Do you know if that has happened yet? I think that the launch is September 4th.

That's how I'm getting in. Actually getting the pre-order from a friend at a discount (his wife was going to play so he ordered two, and now she's changed her mind).

As for the game itself, I have no idea what it's like. As seems typical for MMO companies, Cryptic apparently vastly underestimated how much their servers would get hit yesterday. I tried patching all night, and it was like trying to suck a cueball through a garden hose. What data did come through the pipe came in fits and starts, and as of this morning had ceased to operate altogether. This isn't the sort of thing that instills confidence. If their hardware can't even handle the patching needs of their pre-order customers, I have no idea how they plan to handle the load in a couple of weeks.

Still, I don't want to poo-poo on things too badly just yet. Hopefully this is just a temporary snag.

[Capital]

Good information DataKing. I guess that means that the pre-orders now have "access". Once you get into the game, interested to see your initial thoughts. Those stress test betas are usually troublesome to these companies. I remember the mess that happened everytime WOW issued a patch in its hayday.

[Atocep]

I got it downloaded an installed last night. Got to play through the tutorial before they shut down the servers.

It's interesting. Feels very much like City of Heroes 2 with cell shaded graphics than anything else. Character creation is way more in-depth that even what CoH had. The game feels, looks, and plays very similarly.

Combat is more action oriented with the ability to hold down keys to "charge" attacks.

Quests and story in the tutorial are more or less taken straight from CoH. Same type of stuff.

The game looks really good and polished. Controls feel polished.

I have a fairly decent system with a GTX280 and I'm still a little choppy. Their default graphic settings are too high for at least 90% of the people. I turned them down and I'm still a bit choppy, although I wouldn't be too concerned as the last couple patches before launch and then the month after launch are typically used to optimize performance for MMOs.

I'll get into more specific gameplay stuff later. They took the servers down right as I finished the tutorial last night.

[DataKing]

Went home at lunch and started downloading the pre-patched client from fileplanet, so hopefully I'll get a look at this thing tonight.

If the gameplay is similar to City of Heroes, then I'll definitely be playing (as long as it holds my interest). I always felt like combat in CoH/CoV was some of the most entertaining MMO combat I've ever seen.

I'm kind of curious to see how my machine handles the game graphically. My card is only a 8800, but I'm running a quad core with 4gb RAM and a RAID setup, so stuttering is usually kept to a minimum. We shall see.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by DataKing

I'm kind of curious to see how my machine handles the game graphically. My card is only a 8800, but I'm running a quad core with 4gb RAM and a RAID setup, so stuttering is usually kept to a minimum. We shall see.

For what it's worth, we're running the same rig (8800 GT + shiny new quad core), and I'm running Aion Online at fully cranked graphics with barely a hiccup. My guess is you should be fine on Champs. An 8800 with a huge processor feeding it is more powerful than I think a lot of people realize.

[DataKing]

I would think so, but this is the first time I'll be running something on the machine that uses cell-shading graphics exclusively. On the surface you'd think the graphics requirements would be lower with cell-shading, but I can't say for sure.

I run LOTRO with graphics cranked and I've got no issues there, but even that is already a two-year-old game.

[Atocep]

Here's a video that shows off the travel forms a bit.

Video Games | Champions Online | Travel Powers Trailer
XBox 360 | Playstation 3 | Nintendo Wii

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Feels very much like City of Heroes 2 with cell shaded graphics than anything else.

And the vast majority of people on CoH forums will tell you it's very much not like CoH 2. There are no real ATs and characters generally fall into either being a blaster, or scrapper hybrid. It's very solo friendly to the point there's pretty much zero need to team as it currently stands.

[cuervo72]

Well, I hardly ever have to team in CoH as it currently stands (which I'm pretty thankful is an option).

What gets me are reviews that compare CO to what they know from CoH...which may be the CoH of three, four years ago. CoH has changed a lot since then.

[SnowMan]

Got into the beta today. The character creation is amazing. Spent more time than planned on that so haven't actually played the game yet!

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Well, I hardly ever have to team in CoH as it currently stands (which I'm pretty thankful is an option).

What gets me are reviews that compare CO to what they know from CoH...which may be the CoH of three, four years ago. CoH has changed a lot since then.

I tried it 2 years ago, but didn't get very far. Then I tried the trial with a friend a couple months ago and they have the worst trial in the history of trials. You weren't allowed to group at all while on trial so the friend and I had no choice but to run around solo. We made it about 2 hours before uninstalling.

When I say it feels very much like CoH I will admit that its 100% based on messing around with it very casually. What I'm saying is if you've played CoH you're going to be familiar with things immediately.

[DataKing]

OK. I got to mess around with this for a few hours last night. Overall, for a Beta, I'd have to give it an early grade of B/B-. There are some things that I like about it, and some things that I'm not sold on just yet. But there's nothing there that I would call a "show-stopper."

The Good

• Character Design/Customization: Snowman is right...the character customization is impressive. Not just in the amount of costume options available (which, if I had to guess, is about the same amount as is available in CoH/CoV), but with your character's power sets as well. Once you start to level up your character, you have a number of options that I can tell will help to make your character feel unique.
• Travel Powers: These are a blast! I probably spent an hour last night just messing around with the different travel powers available. There are of course the old standby's (flight, superjump, superspeed, etc) but some other really fun options as well. Teleportation is pretty cool (and is handled completely differently than it is in CoH), athletics is like a hybrid of superspeed and superjump, and swinging has some seriously cool possibilities (but seems like it would take some getting used to). There are other variations on these as well. Flying, for example, also has options for fire-based characters, tech-based characters (rocket boots), ice-based characters, etc.
• Gear: When I first played CoH I was intrigued by the game partially because it wasn't a gear-based game, it was more about your hero's build and your own abilities as a keyboard-jockey. So when I heard that Champions was going to include gear and crafting, I was hesitant. The thing about being a superhero is that you have powers that don't require any special gear, right (with the exception ot tech-based heroes, of course). But I like the way Champions has handled gear. Now granted, I'm at a low level right now, but the gear that is available to you through crafting or quest rewards only adds to your abilities, it does not become your abilities. It mostly appear to revolve just around stat boosts and defense improvements. An added benefit is that it gives your character more flexibility. Going up against some baddies that are especially hard-hitting? Up your defense. Want to just tear through a bunch of softer baddies? Up your strength.
• Crafting: This is a tentative "Good." Basically what they appear to have done is put the WoW crafting system into a superhero MMO. You gain recipes/schematics and are able to create some gear and temporary boosts using components that you can either find out in the open (kind of like resource nodes) or by effectively "deconstructing" other gear. I only messed around with this a little bit last night, but in general I am a fan of games with crafting systems, as it gives you something to do to break up the fight-fight-fight monotony.

The Not-so-Good

• Cell-Shading Graphics: I'm not sold on the cell-shading graphics. I know it's supposed to make it look more like a comic book, but so far it just isn't doing anything for me. The animation is pretty smooth for me so long as there isn't too much going on in the background, but the cell-shading makes things seem kind of...I guess dull is the best word. Not as in boring-dull, but as in not-sharp. I'm going to give this one a little more time before I pass final judgment though...maybe it will grow on me.
• Audio: I'm hoping that this is something that gets addressed with the final release. Background noise, music, that sort of thing are fine. But the audio effects leave a bit to be desired. If I'm a superhero I expect things to be LOUD!!! If I really lay into someone, it needs to sound like I just tore a hole in the fabric of the universe. As it stands right now...even with the effects volume all the way up, the sound just doesn't have the impact that I'd like it to.
• Interface: I'd have to rate the UI as a 'C.' I've played plenty of MMOs, so it's not like I'm a rube or anything...I know how these things work. But some of it just seems counter-intuitive. Using attacks/inventory items/etc are simple enough, but probably my biggest pet-peeve is how you interact with objects/NPCs in the world. You have to either click on the object or get very close to it, then either hit the Z key or a little pop-up bar that shows up lower-middle of your screen. I'm probably not describing it very well, but trust me when I say it feels cumbersome. I'm sure I'll get used to it, but it's not what I'd call ideal.

I'll be messing around with this some more over the next couple of weeks...trying out different power sets, travel powers, that sort of thing, so I'm not going to pass final judgment on this thing just yet. If I had to decide today, I'd probably go with the six-month subscription option (those who pre-order have a couple of options on top of the normal monthly subscription). It doesn't feel like the best MMO ever made, and it definitely has some warts. I think it will be fun, though. Long-term playability will remain a question, though, naturally. I think that will depend largely on how dynamic the gameplay feels over the long haul, how the nemesis system works, etc.

If anybody has any questions, feel free to ask.

[cuervo72]

Just took a look at a couple of "leakerz" vids that are on YouTube, and I'm not really blown away. Not really into the "comic-y" look they're going for.

Reports are too that it's a bit of a button-mashing MMO - that you're well served in getting a controller to play with. I'm really not into button mashing or action/console gaming at this point. Well, never really has been my style I guess.

I think I'm at the point where I still have so much I would like to do in CoH/CoV and spend so much time with it as it is (not to mention eagerly anticipating I16 and Going Rogue) that I don't feel the need to try CO out.

[dubb93]

I have never played CoH or CoV so I can't reference those games but I'm having an alright time playing the beta.

I absolutely love the public quests(not sure they were in CoH/CoV or not). Public quests are one of the very few things I loved about Warhammer Online, glad to see it here as well.

[DataKing]

Yeah. I forgot to mention the public missions but I think there's a lot of potential there too. I'd just like to see a little more info/detail on them. It's especially confusing if you come into one at the end...that happened to me at the cannon and I spent a good amount of time just trying to figure out what the hell was going on.

[Atocep]

I've hit level 12 on one character and I understand that's still early in the leveling process, but it's very clear up to this point that some character builds are insanely overpowered. There's really no reason, from what I see, to play anything other than a hybrid unless you put character story and background over gameplay. I guess this is part of what Matthean was getting at above.

Combat through level 12 can come down to button mashing and you can definitely button mash your way up to at least that point. From reading abilities and how they can, in theory, chain together does open the door for the possibility of something more than just mashing buttons on your keyboard. I admit I haven't experienced that level of sophistication in gameplay yet, though.

Public quests need some work. It needs to be 100% obvious as soon as you walk into a public quest area (like in WAR) that you are in a public quest area and what the current objective is. If they're going to score you instead of basing it on a roll then they need to tell you what the hell makes up that score. Once the public quest is complete they also need to make the looting area much more obvious. I like the fact that they included public quests, but they're not as polished as WAR's were at the same development stage.

I like my games to be challenging and I don't see that in Champions yet. There's a lot of ability balancing that still needs to happen, which is the case for any MMO in beta but especially the case for this game due to the number of abilities and ability types that can be mixed and matched.

I don't like the lack of MMO feel that it has. WoW nudged the genre toward more of a single player mindset and that's fine as long as that actual multiplayer aspect of the MMO is still accentuated. Some games since have taken things to the extreme and Champions looks like it could be one of them. I've seen no reason to group and feel zero obligation to join a guild. It feels like a single player action game with a bunch ninjas (seriously, did half the players make a ninja or is it just me?) running around taking up space in my world.

There are 5 man lairs in the game and I'm hoping to get into one today or tomorrow so I can give more details on how those go then. So take the grouping stuff and really anything with a grain of salt. I'm only giving my opinion based on what I've seen so far.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I tried it 2 years ago, but didn't get very far. Then I tried the trial with a friend a couple months ago and they have the worst trial in the history of trials. You weren't allowed to group at all while on trial so the friend and I had no choice but to run around solo. We made it about 2 hours before uninstalling.

Trial accounts do unfortunately have restrictions now that weren't there in the past:

Originally Posted by Paragon Wiki

Trial Accounts allow a player to take City of Heroes and/or City of Villains for a test run. They are free and last either 10 or 14 days, depending on the source of the Trial Account code. Up until Issue 12, a Trial Account was not limited in what it could do; as of Issue 12, there are several restrictions put in place. Most of these restrictions were placed due to tells and in-game email spam.

Restrictions

* Trial Accounts cannot email other players
* Trial Accounts may not level past 14 (just enough to get a travel power)
* Trial Accounts can only have 50k influence
* Trial Accounts may not join global channels
* Trial Accounts may not join a Supergroup
* Trial Accounts can only speak in

1. /local
2. /help
3. /team

* Trial Accounts cannot invite players to team

1. Trial Accounts may join teams, but not invite other players
2. Trial Accounts may not join SuperGroups.

[dubb93]

I agree with what many of the people in here are saying. There really isn't a challenge to the game at all. 5 enemies in the same spot? No problem, I'll just run in and kill them one at a time and when it is all said and done I'll still be at full health.

A three person group quest called Ferd? No problem, he's no match for me. Not sure why you would need to group here.

[DataKing]

It's not exactly unusual for early game content to be overly simple though. LOTRO is the only MMO I've played in recent years where I really felt the need to team up with others in order to complete the early game content.

[Peregrine]

Launch Day is today! Also they put in a fairly substantial patch to try to correct some beta/head start issues:

State of the Game - Launch Day Special! - Champions Online Forums

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Trial accounts do unfortunately have restrictions now that weren't there in the past:

And some of the restrictions are dumb. They are trying to cut down on RMTers, but are hurting new players as well.

[cuervo72]

True, true. I wonder if some of those will be relaxed with the e-mail filters being introduced (hrm...I wonder if they could make it so you could only SEND to those on your friends list...).

Anyway, best of luck to CO, I guess. I won't be playing it, but I suppose I really shouldn't root against them.

[DataKing]

If anyone here is playing, feel free to send me a friends request. Stalwart@dataking. Stalwart is a level 8 bruiser type (I was in the 3-day head start for pre-ordering), so if you need a hand just holler.