NCAA Infractions Committee Report on USC - Ghosts of infractions past haunt SC

[cactusdave]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Bollocks. You're as myopic as they come. That's like telling me your not a psychiatrist either.

I actually agree with you somewhat. I think the NCAA wanted the Bush (and Michaels) deposition to strengthen their case. I think they have a TON of stuff on USC, because I strongly suspect USC did (and probably is still doing, given the current coaching staff) a TON of stuff. But it will be innuendo, hints, stories that don't match, unexpected financial contributions, things that skirt the rules but don't go full on into violations of the bylaws, like the crap Special Ed and Lame pulled at Tennessee on their way out the door.

Without a real hook, it will be harder for the NCAA to come down as hard as they want to and probably suspect they need to. I am certain much of the rest of the member schools, particularly other top programs like Texas, LSU, Florida, Notre Dame, etc., are pushing the NCAA strongly to not play this hand weakly, because they don't like what's gone on in South Central either, and they don't like that USC goes into their traditional "territories" and takes away recruits either. So the NCAA is in a tough place, because some powerful schools are on them on one end, but they don't have as strong a case as they like and USC has deep pockets and is threatening legal action.

I think all that has a lot to do with the delay in the sanctions. Of course, the latest delay is supposedly because of the "size" of the report. If that's true, you could also reason that's because there is so much there, and that would seem to suggest some rough sanctions are coming to USC. Tough to say.

My guess is what you're guessing, that it will be probation and scholies. A bowl ban for a year will be considered but in the end not done. The scholies will probably be harsher than expected, for two reasons; 1) USC was on probation when the Bush stuff happened, so this is a second offense; 2) the NCAA will be pissed they couldn't swing a bowl ban and will need sharper scholie losses to keep the other member schools off their back. I also think the NCAA will vacate some wins from the 2004-05 seasons, but they don't have the ability to change anything with respect to the 2004 BCS championship or Bush's Heisman.

Of course, I am convinced Kiffin is dirtier than Carroll, more arrogant than Carroll and not as good of a gameday coach, so maybe in the end, sanctions won't matter as much as Carroll leaving for the pros.

I think the inuendos and hints and anecdotal thoughts can be dsicovered in any major program in the country. It just happens to be SC's turn in the barrel again.


I read where Ohio State committed something like a thousand minor infractions in 2009 (okay maybe it was only hundreds), which tells me two things. First, the NCAA is completely out of control when it comes to unenforceable rules and second that every school struggles to keep from bending the vast majority of these silly regulations.


I think the biggest problem the NCAA has with the Bush incident is that they don't have the "smoking gun" and they never will have it.


If they can't nail down what exactly it was that Bush and family did or didn't do after 5 years of investigation, it's an extreme reach to assert that SC should have been able to see it coming and deal with it either.


That's a wall that mitigates the circumstances in SC's favor that the NCAA just can't get over IMO. Not for lack of trying certainly.

[MrBug708]

Friday is D-day for the slap on the wirst

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Friday is D-day for the slap on the wirst

I wouldn't necessarily believe ESPN. I do think it will finally come this week, but my guess is that it will be on Thursday.

[MrBug708]

I think Friday so they can skip out on the SEC and the media for the weekend

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I think Friday so they can skip out on the SEC and the media for the weekend

I agree. The NCAA did the same thing to Alabama in 2002 (Friday announcement), and they just did it to UConn this past Friday. My understanding is that this is intentional; a normal PR move the NCAA does.

The NCAA, from what I have seen, doesn't like to have to answer questions about its rulings.

[MrBug708]

The first "rumors" are appearing

Probation:
5 year window with 3 active
17 over 3 scholarships
1 year bowl ban
no TV ban

If true it's basically the slap on the wrist like everyone thought

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

The first "rumors" are appearing

Probation:
5 year window with 3 active
17 over 3 scholarships
1 year bowl ban
no TV ban

If true it's basically the slap on the wrist like everyone thought

Do they have to vacate any wins or championships?

[bob]

I've heard complaints that say the NCAA can only investigate so much because they have no power once the athlete graduates - you can't force them to talk and you can't punish them if they lie. To get around that, why don't they make scholarship offers a legally binding contract with specific language around taking money from schools, agents, etc, with specific punishment. Then the NCAA could sue an athlete for breach of contract, force it into a real court system, and get answers (see Chris Webbers' "I'll lie to the NCAA but not federal court").

I don't really follow recruiting that much, so maybe this just isn't possible due to something I'm not thinking of.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

The first "rumors" are appearing

Probation:
5 year window with 3 active
17 over 3 scholarships
1 year bowl ban
no TV ban

If true it's basically the slap on the wrist like everyone thought

seriously.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bob

I've heard complaints that say the NCAA can only investigate so much because they have no power once the athlete graduates - you can't force them to talk and you can't punish them if they lie. To get around that, why don't they make scholarship offers a legally binding contract with specific language around taking money from schools, agents, etc, with specific punishment. Then the NCAA could sue an athlete for breach of contract, force it into a real court system, and get answers (see Chris Webbers' "I'll lie to the NCAA but not federal court").

I don't really follow recruiting that much, so maybe this just isn't possible due to something I'm not thinking of.

Probably is just too much of a hassle for them legally. There are complaints from some fans, but it's not really going to hurt the popularity of the sports. No one is going to stop watching college football because a few schools like USC are allowed to cheat.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Do they have to vacate any wins or championships?

I'd imagine they'd vacate wins from 2 years and their Pac-10 Championships. The BCS title isn't governed by the NCAA so they can't do anything about that, but the BCS board can strip them of it, but they won't award it to someone else it will just go "unwon" for that year.

[Eaglesfan27]

There is noise out of USC that they haven't even received the report yet and that all of these experts who are guaranteeing the report is coming out tomorrow are going to look silly tomorrow when the report isn't announced.

[MrBug708]

The fact that it has taken this long has already made the NCAA look silly

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

The fact that it has taken this long has already made the NCAA look silly

I meant the Yahoo "writers" who are guaranteeing the report is coming out tomorrow and that USC is going to get hammered. Not to mention ESPN reporting that they know the report is coming out tomorrow. It could come out, but if so, Heritage Hall and Steven Sample have done an amazing job of shutting down all possible leaks and USC's Public Information Officer has denied that they have the report as of late this afternoon and USC has to be given the report at least 24 hours before it is made public. I think all of these rumors of what the punishment will be are just wild guesses, just like all of these guarantees about it being out tomorrow are.

[RainMaker]

Hasn't Yahoo shown to be pretty spot-on with their college reporting? I'd argue that they are becoming one of the best journalistic sports sites on the web.

[MrBug708]

Yahoo has credibility in the sports world, expect with USC fans. I believe they broke the UConn violations. THey broke the Bush case and Bush has since paid off both Michaels and Lake. I'd say they have been vindicated

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I meant the Yahoo "writers" who are guaranteeing the report is coming out tomorrow and that USC is going to get hammered.

If what is being reported here is considered "hammered"...

[Poli]

Why hasn't this thread title been edited yet?

[Poli]

That's better.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Logan

If what is being reported here is considered "hammered"...

No, a yahoo writer wrote yesterday that he guarantees the report is coming out today (highly unlikely now) and that "USC is getting the worst penalty in decades, book it." Yahoo may have gotten a few things correct, but overall their sports "writers" are terrible.

[DanGarion]

Well that writer should be out of a job.

[MrBug708]

Same source as Norm Chow to USC

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Poli

Why hasn't this thread title been edited yet?

It's like the Duke Nukem Forever of NCAA slaps on the wrist?

SI

[Eaglesfan27]

A reliable writer on USC's site indicates that USC has gotten the report today and it should be made public on Wednesday. The report is supposedly 135 pages long.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

A reliable writer on USC's site indicates that USC has gotten the report today and it should be made public on Wednesday. The report is supposedly 135 pages long.

I'm guessing (from perusing other violations reports) that the length of the report, if true, would not be good news for USC.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I'm guessing (from perusing other violations reports) that the length of the report, if true, would not be good news for USC.

Or it could be a long explanation of everything they tried to prove but couldn't. Either way, they have to cover themselves.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Or it could be a long explanation of everything they tried to prove but couldn't. Either way, they have to cover themselves.

I guess that's possible too. Given the length of time of the investigation, you'd expect a lot to be written down either way.

[DeToxRox]

Sounds like tomorrow, but like always I'll believe it when I see it:

Lather, rinse, repeat: NCAA report on USC coming Thursday
Posted by John Taylor on June 9, 2010 12:52 PM ET
We know, we know, we know. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three or four or five times? Take a sledgehammer to my groin for being an über-dolt.

And, yet, here we are again.

A mere 109 days after the NCAA concluded their hearing with USC regarding the probe into their football and basketball programs, it appears that the NCAA is set to release the results of their findings. Again.

This time, it's ESPN.com's Joe Schad with the news of an imminent release.

"USC penalties will be announced tomorrow," Schad wrote on his Twitter account.

No further details were given. Although it is interesting to see that Schad chose to write that it will be penalties that will be announced.

As has been our way of dealing with every case of premature speculation, though, we won't hold our breath waiting for the report to come tomorrow, next week or sometime around when Reggie Bush's kid graduates. College.

But, eventually, somebody has to nail it, right? Right???

UPDATE 1:27 p.m. ET: Charles Robinson of Yahoo! Sports just tweeted the following regarding the release of the NCAA's findings. And it looks as, dadgummit, the sucker may indeed be released tomorrow.

"A source says USC expects 2 have a copy of the NCAA's report in their hands in the next few hours. NCAA & USC press conference tomorrow."

[MrBug708]

ESPN's source has to be the same as Mizzou's source

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

ESPN's source has to be the same as Mizzou's source

True, but in this case, it looks like it will finally be done tomorrow. I have a bad feeling that neither USC fans nor USC haters are going to be happy.

[DeToxRox]

Reading a USC fan thread on another site I frequent, they are saying 30 schollies lost over 3 years and a 2 year bowl ban. No idea how true it is but it sounds brutal for USC if true.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Reading a USC fan thread on another site I frequent, they are saying 30 schollies lost over 3 years and a 2 year bowl ban. No idea how true it is but it sounds brutal for USC if true.

"So.....Texas, since you're coming here anyway, want our Rose Bowl bid? It's not like Arizona State really deserves it."

[DeToxRox]

ATVN Sports (No idea what that is but its affiliated with USC I think) tweets the following:

USC spokesman: No press conference scheduled for tomorrow regarding possible NCAA sanctions. Reports of plan called "erroneous."

[DeToxRox]

Dola, apparently the school will release a press release as opposed to a press conference.

[DeToxRox]

Bruce Feldman tweeted USC gets a 2 year bowl ban and loss of schollies. We'll know for sure tomorrow.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by bronconick

"So.....Texas, since you're coming here anyway, want our Rose Bowl bid? It's not like Arizona State really deserves it."

SI

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Reading a USC fan thread on another site I frequent, they are saying 30 schollies lost over 3 years and a 2 year bowl ban. No idea how true it is but it sounds brutal for USC if true.

Doesn't seem that brutal considering what they did. Seems sort of fair if it also involves the vacating of wins over the years.

So does that mean if they go undefeated and are clearly the best team in college football, they can't play in the BCS Championship Game? Or is it just non-Championship bowls? Just wondering if the Championship is considered a bowl.

[MrBug708]

I'll wait until the NCAA or USC acknowledges it

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Doesn't seem that brutal considering what they did. Seems sort of fair if it also involves the vacating of wins over the years.

So does that mean if they go undefeated and are clearly the best team in college football, they can't play in the BCS Championship Game? Or is it just non-Championship bowls? Just wondering if the Championship is considered a bowl.

I never understood why "vacating of wins over the years" was considered a harsh penalty. Who really cares? What happened, happened. Michigan basketball had to essentially wipe out a few seasons because of the whole Fab Five mess, but other than joking about it, it really doesn't mean anything. Maybe if you stripped a team of a National Title, the fans would lose bragging rights or something, but vacating past wins, to me, seems like a really hollow punishment.

The loss of scholarships and bowl bans going forward seems like a much bigger deal, since it has a real, as opposed to a pseudo-real, impact.

[sterlingice]

The only time it's ever had any teeth, it's been fought tooth and nail but still seems to be sticking, at the moment. And that's when Bowden was forced to vacate FSU wins that probably cost him the career coaching wins record.

SI

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So does that mean if they go undefeated and are clearly the best team in college football, they can't play in the BCS Championship Game? Or is it just non-Championship bowls? Just wondering if the Championship is considered a bowl.

I think the proper term that should be used is Postseason ban.

[MrBug708]

Heh...from Detrich Riley's facebook (A kid who picked UCLA over USC after being a silent verbal to them for most of last year). It was a thread with George Uko, a Top 5 DT this past year.

FB status says "DAMN USC Trojans Im sorry to hear about the sanctions."

George Uko responds (pardon the language): "fuk fufkf fukkkkkkk meeeeeee D nigga"

DR says "its not too late to transfer bro i told you man. should've listened to me"

Uko: "shuld culd of would of idk nigga im not trying to sit out a year"

Good thing for Mr. Uko is that they'll likely be let out of their NLI's if true

[vex]

via Twitter:

tribjazz

If the reports are true, let me be the first to congratulate Colorado State on its improbable 2004 upset of Reggie Bush and USC. 8 minutes ago via web

[vex]

and:

tribjazz

Oklahoma should hold its national championship parade along street in San Diego where Reggie Bush's family moved into $757,500 house. 3 minutes ago via web

[stevew]

So, when they promote Reggie Bush now, will he be known as the Former, Former Heisman Trophy winner?

[bhlloy]

We'll see what's in the report. My guess is at least McNair told the committee that he had some knowledge and that other coaches did as well. It's as close to a death sentence as we've seen for a major program since SMU, so there has got to be some bad stuff in there somewhere.

Assuming the above, I'm pretty sad and disillusioned about the whole affair. You do the crime, you do the time.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

We'll see what's in the report. My guess is at least McNair told the committee that he had some knowledge and that other coaches did as well. It's as close to a death sentence as we've seen for a major program since SMU, so there has got to be some bad stuff in there somewhere.

Assuming the above, I'm pretty sad and disillusioned about the whole affair. You do the crime, you do the time.

I cant imagine McNair would admit to that, I just find that hard to believe. With no possible jailtime for him if he is caught lying. That means the smoking gun was true (Micheals and Lake), so why not just pay off McNair?

[bhlloy]

Then what is the violation? Considering FSU, Oklahoma and Alabama all got slaps on the wrist (2 of those programs were even on probation at the time). If the smoking gun isn't there a 2 year bowl ban and 20-30 scholarships isn't going to hold up.

[MrBug708]

NCAA could have been gradnstanding and figured it would get thrown out in appeals and everyone would bitch at USC for getting away but the NCAA looks like it did its job?

[bhlloy]

Seems like wishful thinking at this point, but we'll see tomorrow