Is gulf oil spill unstoppable? - Page 2

Dutch · 07-16-2010, 09:58 AM

Glad they stopped it and I am hoping it holds.

stevew · 07-17-2010, 04:42 PM

I can't find the article now, but it was basically saying that that they had this idea all the way back in the first week of the spill, but that it took 2 months to design and build.

If this actually works, this type of device that they created needs to be available in the future at a moments notice. God forbid that another well disaster happens, but we need to be prepared.

cartman · 07-18-2010, 09:35 PM

Ugh, it sounds like the nightmare scenario of a broken well casing is coming true. They are detecting seeping in the sea floor around the well.

Allen: Seep detected at oil spill site - CNN.com

sooner333 · 07-18-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

Ugh, it sounds like the nightmare scenario of a broken well casing is coming true. They are detecting seeping in the sea floor around the well.

Allen: Seep detected at oil spill site - CNN.com

If this is true, will the relief well actually fix the problem? I assume yes because the oil would want to flow out the easiest way possible, which would be through the relief well, but I'm also not very knowledgable in drilling.

stevew · 07-18-2010, 10:21 PM

I think it depends where the relief well bisects the main well. If it's below the leak, it should be ok, above the leak and it's fucked.

molson · 07-19-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

Ugh, it sounds like the nightmare scenario of a broken well casing is coming true. They are detecting seeping in the sea floor around the well.

Allen: Seep detected at oil spill site - CNN.com

Don't worry though, the feds have put BP in charge of monitoring this development, so it's all good.

sterlingice · 07-20-2010, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Don't worry though, the feds have put BP in charge of monitoring this development, so it's all good.

I'm sure they will never withhold or alter any information such as how much oil is flowing ever again since they have such a great track record.

I really am torn about what to do on this. It seems to me like there are a few people in the world who even know what to do with deep sea drilling and they're much better experts at getting oil out of the ground that keeping it in. So if you're the government- what do you do? It's not as if you can send the Army Corps of Engineers down there to take a look or something.

SI

Warhammer · 07-20-2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm sure they will never withhold or alter any information such as how much oil is flowing ever again since they have such a great track record.

I really am torn about what to do on this. It seems to me like there are a few people in the world who even know what to do with deep sea drilling and they're much better experts at getting oil out of the ground that keeping it in. So if you're the government- what do you do? It's not as if you can send the Army Corps of Engineers down there to take a look or something.

SI

I'm not sure how much I trust the Army Corps of Engineers to do anything about it. Everything they do is slow, they operate on a geological timeframe.

Kodos · 07-20-2010, 11:04 AM

Where is Bruce Willis during all of this? Maybe I'm just spoiled, but I've come to expect him to fix this kind of thing.

Honolulu_Blue · 07-20-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

Where is Bruce Willis during all of this? Maybe I'm just spoiled, but I've come to expect him to fix this kind of thing.

Uh, I don't he ever made it back from that meteor drilling mission. Sorry. I think it's all up to Ben Affleck now, so, we're kinda screwed.

JediKooter · 07-20-2010, 12:27 PM

Matt Damon

CU Tiger · 07-20-2010, 12:48 PM

Seriously...I guess I am just jaded, but doesn't seem like this should be such a hard problem to resolve.

I think it is essentially a question of motivation. If there was significant enough reward I have a feeling the best and brightest would sove this in a week.

As it is BP is catching (and selling/profiting)much of what spills and the total financial damage of what they do not catch seems to be cappeed at this minute...

sterlingice · 07-21-2010, 07:33 PM

Well, it does have the problem of being under a mile of water. That does seem to make things a lot tougher. I mean, this just isn't something easy to do with that much pressure.

I would also argue again- what can the government do on something like this? You basically have BP who can work on it or possibly other oil companies. This isn't something that you can just study up in a few days and then go solve. So, BP is basically the gatekeeper and, as you said, they have questionable motivations at best, particularly once it went on for a month- what's another week or three of bad PR when the damage has already been done. So I'm sure they're just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

Just look at the blowup this weekend when Allen said they might have to release the cap because it might be collapsing the pipe. BP has nothing else to lose- it's already a disaster. But if the pipe collapses now that the "government is in charge" then the government stands to lose a ton more if this is an unstoppable leak. However, when the government threatened to do just that, BP threw their PR machine into high gear saying "it's the government's fault if we have to take this cap off and start spewing oil again" (since we plugged the leak).

SI

flere-imsaho · 07-22-2010, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Seriously...I guess I am just jaded, but doesn't seem like this should be such a hard problem to resolve.

I disagree. Once tapped, the oil is under a ridiculous amount of pressure coming up from several miles below the drill site. The presence of significant amounts of natural gas with the oil complicates the engineering problem. Fixes are being implemented a mile below the surface of the ocean. The explosion and subsequent sinking seriously damaged the equipment around the wellhead.

This has always been a complex engineering problem and to be honest I think the engineers from BP, other oil companies and from the government have done a pretty good job under very challenging conditions. The engineers aren't the bad guys here. BP's management are the bad guys here. They're the reason the safety problems were ignored, they're the reason why people were rushing when they shouldn't have been, and they're the reason why people (from their lead) kept underestimating the scope of the problem.

Quote:

As it is BP is catching (and selling/profiting)much of what spills and the total financial damage of what they do not catch seems to be cappeed at this minute...

1. Much of what they are catching is being burned off immediately because it is simply too dangerous to bring dedicated tankers to an area already crowded with other vessels (supertankers are not exactly nimble).

2. Oil that is successfully offloaded to tankers for refining (or to actual refining ships) will be sold and the proceeds will go to wildlife organizations: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6575JH20100608

Again, I'm not trying to be a BP apologist here, I still think their management structure were/are a bunch of greedy assholes, but I fail to see why people seem to need to make up evil stuff BP is supposedly doing when their failures to date are more than enough to paint them quite clearly as evil bastards.

SportsDino · 07-22-2010, 03:22 PM

Ya I agree with flere, the engineers in this situation are basically in a 'WTF?!' situation and trying to solve a hard problem quickly. I'd argue more about some of the logistical decisions made along the way, but that is at most tangentially related to experts, and is probably more to do with the suits.

I think some serious rethought of command structure in a disaster needs to be made... BP's suits were almost malicious in their incompetence, so was the government in a lot of its behavior. Sure the best experts might have been private... but that means you get any and all barriers out of the way for them, especially if that happens to be a company at fault trying to cover its ass at the same time as handle a disaster. Their ass will always be given preferential treatment, because these are short sighted greedy ass clowns to begin with.

From the start the government should have stepped in, handled costs, and ordered as much material to the area as possible to get things going, with engineering lead under BP for handling the well, and spill containment under some government organization (with the best consultants future money from BP can buy).

CU Tiger · 07-22-2010, 04:31 PM

I wasn't even attempting to get in to the BP fault argument...Im thinking more logistics, I understand thee hole is at the bottom of the ocean, I got it. But we have had submarine technology for ~150 years now...has it not evolved to the point where combined with robotics we can not operate efficiently at that depth?

If not seems a pretty serious hole in our defense from a military stand point at least.

I dont claim to have the answer, but we know the location of the hole.
It would seem to me that a giant cork could be pushed deep enough by a long and strong enough hydraulic ram to clog the flow. Now I dont claim to expect to see literal corks...but why is terrestrial technology not able to be converted to use in a marine envirronemnt?

Or is this truly the first oil well in the history of man to just start gushing uncontrollably...heck I think HA has claimed to start at least 3 of these involving midgets himself...

Warhammer · 07-22-2010, 04:57 PM

Re-reading the title of the thread, you can't hope to stop the gulf oil spill, you only hope to contain it.

Warhammer · 07-22-2010, 05:02 PM

Seriously, the problem is that the oil well is a mile down as well as being underwater. Essentially, you have a mile worth of water, plus whatever rock exists between the oil and the water pushing down on the reservoir.

When you have an oil well issue on the surface, the pressure is not nearly as great. Additionally, you do not have water pushing its way in trying to displace the oil (which you have here). Most wells need to have injection wells to keep the oil pressurized and force it to the surface. Here you don't need it.

07-18-2010, 09:35 PM	#53
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Ugh, it sounds like the nightmare scenario of a broken well casing is coming true. They are detecting seeping in the sea floor around the well. Allen: Seep detected at oil spill site - CNN.com __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

07-20-2010, 11:04 AM	#59
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Where is Bruce Willis during all of this? Maybe I'm just spoiled, but I've come to expect him to fix this kind of thing. __________________ Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.

07-20-2010, 12:27 PM	#61
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	Matt Damon __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

07-21-2010, 07:33 PM	#63
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Well, it does have the problem of being under a mile of water. That does seem to make things a lot tougher. I mean, this just isn't something easy to do with that much pressure. I would also argue again- what can the government do on something like this? You basically have BP who can work on it or possibly other oil companies. This isn't something that you can just study up in a few days and then go solve. So, BP is basically the gatekeeper and, as you said, they have questionable motivations at best, particularly once it went on for a month- what's another week or three of bad PR when the damage has already been done. So I'm sure they're just trying to make the best of a bad situation. Just look at the blowup this weekend when Allen said they might have to release the cap because it might be collapsing the pipe. BP has nothing else to lose- it's already a disaster. But if the pipe collapses now that the "government is in charge" then the government stands to lose a ton more if this is an unstoppable leak. However, when the government threatened to do just that, BP threw their PR machine into high gear saying "it's the government's fault if we have to take this cap off and start spewing oil again" (since we plugged the leak). SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 07-21-2010 at 07:38 PM.

07-17-2010, 04:42 PM	#52
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I can't find the article now, but it was basically saying that that they had this idea all the way back in the first week of the spill, but that it took 2 months to design and build. If this actually works, this type of device that they created needs to be available in the future at a moments notice. God forbid that another well disaster happens, but we need to be prepared.

07-18-2010, 10:21 PM	#55
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I think it depends where the relief well bisects the main well. If it's below the leak, it should be ok, above the leak and it's fucked.

07-20-2010, 12:48 PM	#62
CU Tiger Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Backwoods, SC	Seriously...I guess I am just jaded, but doesn't seem like this should be such a hard problem to resolve. I think it is essentially a question of motivation. If there was significant enough reward I have a feeling the best and brightest would sove this in a week. As it is BP is catching (and selling/profiting)much of what spills and the total financial damage of what they do not catch seems to be cappeed at this minute...

07-22-2010, 03:22 PM	#65
SportsDino College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2001	Ya I agree with flere, the engineers in this situation are basically in a 'WTF?!' situation and trying to solve a hard problem quickly. I'd argue more about some of the logistical decisions made along the way, but that is at most tangentially related to experts, and is probably more to do with the suits. I think some serious rethought of command structure in a disaster needs to be made... BP's suits were almost malicious in their incompetence, so was the government in a lot of its behavior. Sure the best experts might have been private... but that means you get any and all barriers out of the way for them, especially if that happens to be a company at fault trying to cover its ass at the same time as handle a disaster. Their ass will always be given preferential treatment, because these are short sighted greedy ass clowns to begin with. From the start the government should have stepped in, handled costs, and ordered as much material to the area as possible to get things going, with engineering lead under BP for handling the well, and spill containment under some government organization (with the best consultants future money from BP can buy).

07-22-2010, 04:31 PM	#66
CU Tiger Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Backwoods, SC	I wasn't even attempting to get in to the BP fault argument...Im thinking more logistics, I understand thee hole is at the bottom of the ocean, I got it. But we have had submarine technology for ~150 years now...has it not evolved to the point where combined with robotics we can not operate efficiently at that depth? If not seems a pretty serious hole in our defense from a military stand point at least. I dont claim to have the answer, but we know the location of the hole. It would seem to me that a giant cork could be pushed deep enough by a long and strong enough hydraulic ram to clog the flow. Now I dont claim to expect to see literal corks...but why is terrestrial technology not able to be converted to use in a marine envirronemnt? Or is this truly the first oil well in the history of man to just start gushing uncontrollably...heck I think HA has claimed to start at least 3 of these involving midgets himself...

07-22-2010, 04:57 PM	#67
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	Re-reading the title of the thread, you can't hope to stop the gulf oil spill, you only hope to contain it.

07-22-2010, 05:02 PM	#68
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	Seriously, the problem is that the oil well is a mile down as well as being underwater. Essentially, you have a mile worth of water, plus whatever rock exists between the oil and the water pushing down on the reservoir. When you have an oil well issue on the surface, the pressure is not nearly as great. Additionally, you do not have water pushing its way in trying to displace the oil (which you have here). Most wells need to have injection wells to keep the oil pressurized and force it to the surface. Here you don't need it.

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