Draft Day Sports: Pro Basketball 2

Gary Gorski · 09-30-2010, 03:05 PM

With basketball season here and the impending release of DDS:PB2 I thought I would post some of the highlights of the new game.

It's a lengthy message so I will simply post a link here but if you have some time and interest in the game give it a read - I don't have an official public release date but the pre-order/beta is closed now so that should give a hint that its coming very soon.

Here's the link - I look forward to your comments and will stop by FOFC to respond to you in this thread.

molson · 09-30-2010, 03:08 PM

Really looking forward to this one.

DaddyTorgo · 09-30-2010, 03:18 PM

Lookin forward to it Gary.

Damn - I like the sound of FM-style media-interaction and player personalities having an effect on things. Stashing players overseas...revamp and more complexity in the financial system...sounds like there's a lot to love about this game!

jcwean · 09-30-2010, 04:53 PM

Gary will PB2.0 be compatible with DDS: College Basketball 1.3?

Gary Gorski · 09-30-2010, 07:08 PM

Yes, PB2 will work the same was as PB1 did.

And DT - that is definitely one of my favorite new parts and the best part is that with the system of it now in place I could add all kinds of different scenarios as parts of patches and updates!

DaddyTorgo · 09-30-2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Yes, PB2 will work the same was as PB1 did.

And DT - that is definitely one of my favorite new parts and the best part is that with the system of it now in place I could add all kinds of different scenarios as parts of patches and updates!

It also goes a long way towards making things more...immersive in a way that just stats can't Gary. That's one of the things that us FM players have been saying about text sims for years - stats are obviously hugely important, but to the extent that you can foster that "connection" between the human and the computer-players, breaking the "fourth wall" if you will, is what really makes a game. Nothing better than sitting there at work thinking about some fictional player on one of my text-sim teams and the issues i'm having with him.

that's the holy grail.

looking forward to seeing how this turned out!

Mota · 09-30-2010, 08:17 PM

I agree as well. I've played some games recently that have good statistical engines but do nothing for me because it's all robotic. You have no access to the season stats, no player images, the personalities don't really seem to have an effect, and because of that I have no connection with my players and they feel like a collection of stats.

Anything that adds to the sense that you're managing a team of actual players with personalities makes it so much more immersive and fun.

Gary Gorski · 09-30-2010, 08:41 PM

Right and I had a nice email conversation with TroyF regarding this very issue and I have certainly heard the number of comments over the years wanting this sort of thing.

FM has always impressed me because I always was curious as to why people from the US loved the game so much with our general dislike for soccer but I realized it really wasn't so much about the soccer as about all the things the game offered and certainly FM has become the gold standard to try and live up to. I know basketball isn't as popular as say football or baseball and some just don't like the NBA but I'm hoping I'm on the path to a much greater like for the game itself as opposed to just liking it for a basketball sim.

Gary Gorski · 09-30-2010, 08:42 PM

I also know that I'll never have the graphical bling to compete with say a 2k11 so my focus has to be outdoing those types of games in the immersion factor as well as the strength and dynamics of the career simulation aspect itself. I definitely feel that was accomplished with this version of the game.

molson · 09-30-2010, 09:35 PM

Repeating myself but I think Gary's vision is right-on, exactly what I want to see in a text sim. I hope it all comes together well.

Gary Gorski · 10-01-2010, 08:09 AM

For those of you interested - I'm putting the finishing touches on the game right now and am doing everything I can to make a demo available for you to play at some point over this weekend.

DaddyTorgo · 10-01-2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

For those of you interested - I'm putting the finishing touches on the game right now and am doing everything I can to make a demo available for you to play at some point over this weekend.

yay!

cubboyroy1826 · 10-01-2010, 09:23 AM

Sounds good Gary.

Capital · 10-01-2010, 02:07 PM

Gary,

That's a fabulous read and clearly there's a lot that's new to an already good game. I just went over to Wolverine to buy the game but the pre-order is closed. I guess I'll have to wait until the release. (I only skimmed your original message so, if I read more closely, I guess it shouldn't have been a surprise).

Anyway, looking forward to purchasing the game. I hope others are interested as well.

hoopsguy · 10-01-2010, 08:18 PM

I'm not sure why I haven't picked up earlier versions of this, but if there is a demo this week I'll gladly take it for a spin and hope to find a new/fun game to play.

Gary Gorski · 10-01-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm not sure why I haven't picked up earlier versions of this, but if there is a demo this week I'll gladly take it for a spin and hope to find a new/fun game to play.

I don't know why alot of people haven't picked up earlier versions...that said its not too late to jump in now. I know some games have "progressed" to the point where its so overwhelming to even start - I can assure you that's not the case. You'll be up and running in no time with the game and Tim has taken the time to put together a MASSIVE manual that describes pretty much everything and every screen in the game.

Can't wait to be able to put the demo up and get some feedback from those who were outside of the pre-order/beta process

Gary Gorski · 10-01-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril

In case the discount price is up now right so we might as well wait till the demo?

Right - I want to get the demo out first one so that you guys can mess around with it over the weekend and two just to make sure there's no funky issues all of a sudden or issues with the install or something.

The game isnt even in our marketplace right now and won't be back until the game is officially released so there is no way to buy it at the moment.

lungs · 10-01-2010, 09:52 PM

Awesome. Going to fire this up right now. Been a while since I looked at the beta.

Izulde · 10-01-2010, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I don't know why alot of people haven't picked up earlier versions...that said its not too late to jump in now. I know some games have "progressed" to the point where its so overwhelming to even start - I can assure you that's not the case. You'll be up and running in no time with the game and Tim has taken the time to put together a MASSIVE manual that describes pretty much everything and every screen in the game.

Can't wait to be able to put the demo up and get some feedback from those who were outside of the pre-order/beta process

Just as a point of clarification, the Tim referenced here is Tim Plum, not me.

I'm just the beta dynasty guy.

Sweed · 10-01-2010, 11:11 PM

I picked up the beta\preorder offer about a week and a half ago. Between OOTP11, NCAA11, FM10, and NBA2k coming out I wasn't even sure I'd have time to play DDSPB2. Izulde's dynasty thread pulled me in and I made the buy reluctantly, I'm very glad I did.

All of my sports games I either coach\manage or play out the games (yeah full 90 minute matches for me in FM

) Like Total Pro Basketball before DDSPB2 is the one game I like to just be the GM and hire the coach and let him do his thing. I sim the days one at a time, check the scores in the news, box scores of my and any other interesting games, then rinse and repeat.

We are supposed to only post in the first access thread at Wolverine but I hope with demo so close Gary won't mind that I share one thing.

If you read Izulde's dynasty thread it came up that Ron Artest was listed as the PG for the Lakers, preseason. This was really bugging me, almost to the point of making me not buy the game, but then I think we've all seen this in other games where the ratings just make it happen whether we like it or not. Everything else though in Izulde's thread sounded so good that I went ahead and took the plunge hoping I wouldn't have the Artest\PG problem.

Onto my first test game playing with the Lakers (me only as GM so I can't change anything the coach does) and Phil had Artest listed as the starting PG, ugh. However once the draft and FA started and I picked up Blake and resigned Farmar instead of Fish, Phil put Blake in as the PG with Farmar his backup. I think the only reason this ever came up at all in both or our games was Fish was a FA and Farmar was a RFA with only a qualifying offer (no signed contract) from the Lakers. Once the club had a legit PG under contract the "problem" was gone.

Really enjoying the game with the latest build, you guys will certainly want to check out the demo.

Gary Gorski · 10-01-2010, 11:38 PM

Just to piggy back on the Artest thing - his ball handling rating has been lowered in my latest version but I actually think this is a good example of the AI at work because it shows that the AI does not simply look for a person who is listed as a PG to play point and initiate the offense.

If you watch the 2D games you'll see that if a guy like Lamar Odom gets a rebound he will push the ball on the break himself from time to time as opposed to if Bynum rebounds it then he will always outlet it. Basically the AI is smart enough to realize that basketball is more of a game about skill set rather than an arbitrary position label. Sure if you put 5 Shaqs out there someone will have to run point but the game is smart enough to know that its looking for the best option possible handling the ball the majority of the time.

Sweed · 10-02-2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Just to piggy back on the Artest thing - his ball handling rating has been lowered in my latest version but I actually think this is a good example of the AI at work because it shows that the AI does not simply look for a person who is listed as a PG to play point and initiate the offense.

If you watch the 2D games you'll see that if a guy like Lamar Odom gets a rebound he will push the ball on the break himself from time to time as opposed to if Bynum rebounds it then he will always outlet it. Basically the AI is smart enough to realize that basketball is more of a game about skill set rather than an arbitrary position label. Sure if you put 5 Shaqs out there someone will have to run point but the game is smart enough to know that its looking for the best option possible handling the ball the majority of the time.

I must say I enjoy reading your responses to questions\issues about the game. They show how much thought you have put into this and the depth of the game itself. Very cool.

To be clear I would not have a problem with Artest trying to run point if he were thrust into the roll due to circumstance. My only fear, not knowing what the composition of the roster was in Izulde's beta dynasty, was that Artest had been chosen over either Blake or Fisher to start. Even though the AI doesn't know names, but only the bag of ratings that make the player, having Artest at starting PG would take away from the "feeling of reality" for me. Having the game in my grubby hands

though shows me what a non-issue this is in DDSPB2.

One other thing is that I have only quick simmed games. My plan was to get through my seasons and then watch The Finals played out in their full glory. Your example of Lamar getting a board and leading the break

though has me thinking I'll be watching at least a game or two well before the playoffs start.

Gary Gorski · 10-02-2010, 12:26 AM

Thanks for pointing that out - trust me I have gone into great thought about how things work because I'm such a huge fan of the game itself. I love the sport of basketball. I've consulted many people from stat geeks to people associated with scouting etc for NBA teams in building the game and how it should work and tried to talk with as many gamers as possible to see what they would need done to the game for them to have an interest. Hopefully it has been worth the effort

Gary Gorski · 10-02-2010, 10:44 AM

Demo is available - game for purchase on Monday

DDS:PB2 Demo NOW AVAILABLE! - Wolverine Studios

Enjoy!

whomario · 10-02-2010, 11:08 AM

How exactly are the Euro Leagues working, do you draft players from them ? Or are the euro draftees still created out of thin air at the start of the year ? Do players ever come over if they weren´t drafted (like Anthony Parker or Mozgov now for the Knicks) ? Do unsigned NBA Free Agents go to Europe ?

09-30-2010, 03:18 PM	#3
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	Lookin forward to it Gary. Damn - I like the sound of FM-style media-interaction and player personalities having an effect on things. Stashing players overseas...revamp and more complexity in the financial system...sounds like there's a lot to love about this game! Last edited by DaddyTorgo : 09-30-2010 at 03:28 PM.

09-30-2010, 07:08 PM	#5
Gary Gorski Wolverine Studios Join Date: Oct 2003	Yes, PB2 will work the same was as PB1 did. And DT - that is definitely one of my favorite new parts and the best part is that with the system of it now in place I could add all kinds of different scenarios as parts of patches and updates! __________________ Wolverine Studios http://www.wolverinestudios.com

09-30-2010, 08:41 PM	#8
Gary Gorski Wolverine Studios Join Date: Oct 2003	Right and I had a nice email conversation with TroyF regarding this very issue and I have certainly heard the number of comments over the years wanting this sort of thing. FM has always impressed me because I always was curious as to why people from the US loved the game so much with our general dislike for soccer but I realized it really wasn't so much about the soccer as about all the things the game offered and certainly FM has become the gold standard to try and live up to. I know basketball isn't as popular as say football or baseball and some just don't like the NBA but I'm hoping I'm on the path to a much greater like for the game itself as opposed to just liking it for a basketball sim. __________________ Wolverine Studios http://www.wolverinestudios.com

09-30-2010, 08:42 PM	#9
Gary Gorski Wolverine Studios Join Date: Oct 2003	I also know that I'll never have the graphical bling to compete with say a 2k11 so my focus has to be outdoing those types of games in the immersion factor as well as the strength and dynamics of the career simulation aspect itself. I definitely feel that was accomplished with this version of the game. __________________ Wolverine Studios http://www.wolverinestudios.com

10-01-2010, 08:09 AM	#11
Gary Gorski Wolverine Studios Join Date: Oct 2003	For those of you interested - I'm putting the finishing touches on the game right now and am doing everything I can to make a demo available for you to play at some point over this weekend. __________________ Wolverine Studios http://www.wolverinestudios.com

09-30-2010, 03:08 PM	#2
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Really looking forward to this one.

09-30-2010, 04:53 PM	#4
jcwean n00b Join Date: Sep 2004	Gary will PB2.0 be compatible with DDS: College Basketball 1.3?

09-30-2010, 08:17 PM	#7
Mota College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001	I agree as well. I've played some games recently that have good statistical engines but do nothing for me because it's all robotic. You have no access to the season stats, no player images, the personalities don't really seem to have an effect, and because of that I have no connection with my players and they feel like a collection of stats. Anything that adds to the sense that you're managing a team of actual players with personalities makes it so much more immersive and fun.

09-30-2010, 09:35 PM	#10
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Repeating myself but I think Gary's vision is right-on, exactly what I want to see in a text sim. I hope it all comes together well.

10-01-2010, 09:23 AM	#13
cubboyroy1826 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2002	Sounds good Gary.

10-01-2010, 02:07 PM	#14
Capital High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000	Gary, That's a fabulous read and clearly there's a lot that's new to an already good game. I just went over to Wolverine to buy the game but the pre-order is closed. I guess I'll have to wait until the release. (I only skimmed your original message so, if I read more closely, I guess it shouldn't have been a surprise). Anyway, looking forward to purchasing the game. I hope others are interested as well.

10-01-2010, 08:18 PM	#15
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	I'm not sure why I haven't picked up earlier versions of this, but if there is a demo this week I'll gladly take it for a spin and hope to find a new/fun game to play.

10-01-2010, 09:52 PM	#18
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	Awesome. Going to fire this up right now. Been a while since I looked at the beta.

10-01-2010, 11:11 PM	#20
Sweed College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2003	I picked up the beta\preorder offer about a week and a half ago. Between OOTP11, NCAA11, FM10, and NBA2k coming out I wasn't even sure I'd have time to play DDSPB2. Izulde's dynasty thread pulled me in and I made the buy reluctantly, I'm very glad I did. All of my sports games I either coach\manage or play out the games (yeah full 90 minute matches for me in FM ) Like Total Pro Basketball before DDSPB2 is the one game I like to just be the GM and hire the coach and let him do his thing. I sim the days one at a time, check the scores in the news, box scores of my and any other interesting games, then rinse and repeat. We are supposed to only post in the first access thread at Wolverine but I hope with demo so close Gary won't mind that I share one thing. If you read Izulde's dynasty thread it came up that Ron Artest was listed as the PG for the Lakers, preseason. This was really bugging me, almost to the point of making me not buy the game, but then I think we've all seen this in other games where the ratings just make it happen whether we like it or not. Everything else though in Izulde's thread sounded so good that I went ahead and took the plunge hoping I wouldn't have the Artest\PG problem. Onto my first test game playing with the Lakers (me only as GM so I can't change anything the coach does) and Phil had Artest listed as the starting PG, ugh. However once the draft and FA started and I picked up Blake and resigned Farmar instead of Fish, Phil put Blake in as the PG with Farmar his backup. I think the only reason this ever came up at all in both or our games was Fish was a FA and Farmar was a RFA with only a qualifying offer (no signed contract) from the Lakers. Once the club had a legit PG under contract the "problem" was gone. Really enjoying the game with the latest build, you guys will certainly want to check out the demo.

10-01-2010, 11:38 PM	#21
Gary Gorski Wolverine Studios Join Date: Oct 2003	Just to piggy back on the Artest thing - his ball handling rating has been lowered in my latest version but I actually think this is a good example of the AI at work because it shows that the AI does not simply look for a person who is listed as a PG to play point and initiate the offense. If you watch the 2D games you'll see that if a guy like Lamar Odom gets a rebound he will push the ball on the break himself from time to time as opposed to if Bynum rebounds it then he will always outlet it. Basically the AI is smart enough to realize that basketball is more of a game about skill set rather than an arbitrary position label. Sure if you put 5 Shaqs out there someone will have to run point but the game is smart enough to know that its looking for the best option possible handling the ball the majority of the time. __________________ Wolverine Studios http://www.wolverinestudios.com

10-02-2010, 12:26 AM	#23
Gary Gorski Wolverine Studios Join Date: Oct 2003	Thanks for pointing that out - trust me I have gone into great thought about how things work because I'm such a huge fan of the game itself. I love the sport of basketball. I've consulted many people from stat geeks to people associated with scouting etc for NBA teams in building the game and how it should work and tried to talk with as many gamers as possible to see what they would need done to the game for them to have an interest. Hopefully it has been worth the effort __________________ Wolverine Studios http://www.wolverinestudios.com

10-02-2010, 10:44 AM	#24
Gary Gorski Wolverine Studios Join Date: Oct 2003	Demo is available - game for purchase on Monday DDS:PB2 Demo NOW AVAILABLE! - Wolverine Studios Enjoy! __________________ Wolverine Studios http://www.wolverinestudios.com

10-02-2010, 11:08 AM	#25
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	How exactly are the Euro Leagues working, do you draft players from them ? Or are the euro draftees still created out of thin air at the start of the year ? Do players ever come over if they weren´t drafted (like Anthony Parker or Mozgov now for the Knicks) ? Do unsigned NBA Free Agents go to Europe ? __________________ “The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!”

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