World Wide Leader in...Screwups?

[Suburban Rhythm]

Hadn't seen anything about either of these

Will Selva, Ron Franklin making news in New Year - Richard Deitsch - SI.com

On Sunday, the Web site SportsbyBrooks reported that longtime ESPN broadcaster Ron Franklin was pulled from the radio broadcast of the Fiesta Bowl after he allegedly referred to colleague Jeannine Edwards as "sweet cakes" before the start of a meeting with Florida State coaches Friday for the Chick-fil-A Bowl. Edwards told Franklin that she did not appreciate being addressed that way. That prompted Franklin to allegedly say, "OK then, a--hole."

The Franklin-Edwards exchange was the second high-profile incident involving an ESPN on-air talent recently. Last week, ESPN anchor Will Selva was suspended for plagarizing several sentences of a Lakers story written by the Orange County Register's Kevin Ding. The reporter first brought Selva's swipe to public attention via his Twitter account and Lakers blog. Selva apologized through ESPN's communications department.

[RainMaker]

ESPN celebrates Mangini's firing?

[Logan]

ESPN is just a dirty, dirty company from a personnel standpoint.

[Ksyrup]

Isn't there a book coming out in the next 6 months that's supposed to air all the dirty laundry? At least, the laundry Deadspin hasn't already aired?

[Ksyrup]

Also, apparently they are cleaning up their act in anticipation of that book. Supposedly Erik Kuselius wasn't renewed for that reason.

[panerd]

Who cares? They announce games and recap sports why should I give a shit if they harass each other? I enjoy porn and I am sure it gets a lot worse than that.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by panerd

Who cares? They announce games and recap sports why should I give a shit if they harass each other? I enjoy porn and I am sure it gets a lot worse than that.

You'd probably care if you're an investor in Disney. Seems like only a matter of time until someone over there fucks up enough that advertisers could threaten to walk.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yippee, a solid veteran announcer has now been fired over saying something to some bitch who basically knows horseracing. Let's all celebrate this.

Ah well, it isn't the first time he's been treated stupidly by the network, he's been steadily demoted after dealing with an insipid twit on air in what was actually pretty kind fashion.

During a 2005 Notre Dame-Purdue broadcast, Mr. Franklin and Holly Rowe were involved in a minor incident, which led to Ron Franklin being relegated to ESPN2 broadcasts and now regional games this season.

With Notre Dame blowing out Purdue, Holly Rowe praised the defensive coordinator of Purdue for using the team's timeouts towards the end of a blowout loss.

Holly Rowe added to her praise this comment: "If the coaches are giving up, what does that say to the players?"

Mr. Franklin responded with, "Holly, it's not giving up. It's 49-21, sweetheart."

[TargetPractice6]

Surely he realized that calling a woman "sweet cakes" or "sweetheart" on air wasn't exactly going to be a good career move, though.

[Logan]

This thread has taken a SHOCKING turn.

[Draft Dodger]

it's the bitches fault, of course

[Ksyrup]

Wait, did he get fired, or just demoted for last weekend's game?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

This thread has taken a SHOCKING turn.

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

it's the bitches fault, of course

No, but it isn't exactly ground breaking news either. Like SteveBollea said... a bunch of jocks and people around sports as a career. Fire Ron Franklin for all I care but he isa great announcer. If the masses want more Dick Vitale and Kirk Herbstreet than let them have them. Franklin does a lot of Big 12 stuff so I guess I will reap the benefits of somebody who is a pleasure to listen to.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, I don't really care all that much about the sexual harrasment or whatever stuff. Pretty crazy that something that innocent is grounds for termination in the sporting world.

Although I do find it amusing when ESPN pretends to play news organization and have some standards when 99% of the time they have no standards (see "The Decision").

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TargetPractice6

Surely he realized that calling a woman "sweet cakes" or "sweetheart" on air wasn't exactly going to be a good career move, though.

They weren't on-air, it was before a meeting. Not necessarily relevant to human resources, just saying. And just for the record, according to Edwards it was "sweet baby".

Judging from the context, it seems likely that the term was indeed meant to be condescending but used as a euphemism for something much nastier (based on his choice of "asshole") that a nearly 70 year old native Southerner wasn't planning to use on a woman.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Wait, did he get fired, or just demoted for last weekend's game?

Terminated a little earlier today.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by SteveBollea

Um, call a women under you 'sweetcakes' on the corporate ladder in an environment where HR can hear and see how that goes for you.

It's not the corporate ladder though, it's a sports network that's sole basis is entertainment. Would Ryan Seacrest or Chelsea Handler get fired for saying something like this on their shows?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SteveBollea

Um, call a women under you 'sweetcakes' on the corporate ladder in an environment where HR can hear and see how that goes for you.

As for Jon, it's good to see along with being anti-gay and anti-Muslim, he's also a misogynist. Because God forbid a woman who ya' know, went to school to become a broadcast journalist doesn't want to be treated like a waitress at a wing joint.

Gotta agree with Steve here.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm just happy that JimGA posted in this here.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Logan

This thread has taken a SHOCKING turn.

Countdown until thread implosion...10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-....

[TroyF]

Just because you WANT to say something doesn't mean you CAN say something.

He got what he deserved.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SteveBollea

Um, call a women under you 'sweetcakes' on the corporate ladder in an environment where HR can hear and see how that goes for you.

And we see how well a focus on p.c. instead of quality has worked for so many American businesses lately. Oh, wait.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

I'm just happy that JimGA posted in this here.

And it's always a pleasure to see you to.

Oh. Wait.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's not the corporate ladder though, it's a sports network that's sole basis is entertainment. Would Ryan Seacrest or Chelsea Handler get fired for saying something like this on their shows?

I'm sure Ryan Seacrest would get away with a little more harassment then some old football announcer.

ESPN has enough personnel problems, they don't need replaceable old curmudgeons harassing the younger talent behind the scenes. This is the kind of guy that would definitely be a risk to take the next step (sexual harassment, abuse), if you put your stamp of approval on this stuff.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by SteveBollea

U.S. Corporate Profits Hit Record in Third Quarter - NYTimes.com

Seriously? I believe the thread you want is that way ------>

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

they don't need replaceable old curmudgeons harassing the younger talent behind the scenes.

Given some of the abysmal work we're subjected to, I think "replaceable" is a legitimate question in this case.

Meanwhile, the word "talent" really doesn't seem appropriate. Is anyone actually suggesting she brings anything to the college sports table other than a quota slot for HR purposes?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Regardless of whether you think Ron Franklin should have been fired or whether you think it was defensible, I would at least think he'd be smart enough to realize that if you want to keep your job, you don't do that. Hard for me to feel sorry for the guy. Some actions have pretty predictable consequences. Right or wrong, getting fired or at least reprimanded should be considered a likely outcome. Of course, I haven't seen anything where he's griping about it, so I guess the point is moot.

It's really not that hard. If you don't want to get fired, don't do shit that'll get you fired.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Sorry I even posted this. My intent was to get a laugh over a shitty network that most of us here find as a necessary evil.

Didn't realize that even something as innocent as some dumb fucks at ESPN could turn into a dick swinging contest. Connecting this to the crumbling US economy? Lighten the fuck up.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

ESPN has enough personnel problems, they don't need replaceable old curmudgeons harassing the younger talent behind the scenes. This is the kind of guy that would definitely be a risk to take the next step (sexual harassment, abuse), if you put your stamp of approval on this stuff.

The next step? The guy made an un-PC remark to a woman. Lot of older guys out there do it, just a generational thing (not saying it's right). The crap Mike Tirico pulled in the 90's, or what some others have done is understandable for termination. But the guy made an off-color remark. Make him apologize, suspend him for a couple weeks, and move on.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The next step? The guy made an un-PC remark to a woman. Lot of older guys out there do it, just a generational thing (not saying it's right). The crap Mike Tirico pulled in the 90's, or what some others have done is understandable for termination. But the guy made an off-color remark. Make him apologize, suspend him for a couple weeks, and move on.

It's not an off-color remark. It's not saying an offensive word (as you characterized it in your previous post). The words themselves aren't even that bad. It's about demeaning a co-worker and using 1950s ideas of gender roles to do it.

Maybe there's room for argument what the punishment should be, but he was not punished for saying a bad word. This isn't some women overhearing a couple of guys refer to LPGA players as lesbos or something. It's specific conduct towards a specific co-worker.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And we see how well a focus on p.c. instead of quality has worked for so many American businesses lately. Oh, wait.

While I agree with how silly it is to fire the guy, I don't think it's a sign of businesses disregarding quality. I think it's more about being scared shitless of lawsuits.

My first job out of college had a guy who was an amazing sales guy but crude as fuck. This guy outsold everyone and was a magician with people. But around women, he was a total baffoon. Got about 4-5 complaints from women in the office that at some point they had to let him go despite how good he was. Remember talking to the boss years down the road about it and he said they wanted to keep him badly but were so afraid of getting a big lawsuit if they let it continue.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The crap Mike Tirico pulled in the 90's, or what some others have done is understandable for termination.

I must have missed it - what did Tirico do?

[dawgfan]

Dola - nevermind, found it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

It's about demeaning a co-worker and using 1950s ideas of gender roles to do it.

A lot of folks have co-workers who are worthy of being demeaned (demention? demeanable?), it's a sign of how far we've slipped as a society that we can't identify that.

I genuinely question whether given what little we know of the context this was anything more than casual word choice. Hell, I know a significant number of women who use variations on the same word, often with considerable bite to it, are we to believe they're all misogynists as well?

We have no idea, beyond what she's said about the conversation being something about another announcer's wife being elected mayor of a California city, what prompted the remark. For all we know she said something mind-bogglingly stupid or even downright offensive & he was responding to that with someone less blatant than his second choice.

For all we know, Franklin was being an asshat. But for all we know, she had much worse coming to her & he's a p.c. victim. What we do know is that he's one of the best in the business at what he does while she could vanish from the airwaves forever tonight & no one would ever notice the difference.

[Drake]

If that will get you fired, I should have been fired about 100 times over, and I work for a major American university. Of course, prior to his retirement this summer, my boss would always hold me after meetings to give me his opinion on every set of breasts that had been present, so maybe it's not a huge surprise. He generally referred to women in our office as "pair of tits".

I'm guessing he wouldn't have lasted long at ESPN.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Regardless of whether you think Ron Franklin should have been fired or whether you think it was defensible, I would at least think he'd be smart enough to realize that if you want to keep your job, you don't do that. Hard for me to feel sorry for the guy. Some actions have pretty predictable consequences. Right or wrong, getting fired or at least reprimanded should be considered a likely outcome. Of course, I haven't seen anything where he's griping about it, so I guess the point is moot.

It's really not that hard. If you don't want to get fired, don't do shit that'll get you fired.

This is what it comes down to. I know if I said that to a coworker, I'd lose my job. Period. So if I want to keep my job, I don't call someone sweet cakes.

I have a hard time feeling sorry for a guy who should know better.

I haven't paid attention to her to know why she's hired, but my guess is she probably has no business near the sidelines on a telecast. (quite frankly, most sideline reporters suck) But that's irrelevant to this discussion. He should have known better

[molson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

A lot of folks have co-workers who are worthy of being demeaned (demention? demeanable?), it's a sign of how far we've slipped as a society that we can't identify that.

I genuinely question whether given what little we know of the context this was anything more than casual word choice. Hell, I know a significant number of women who use variations on the same word, often with considerable bite to it, are we to believe they're all misogynists as well?

We have no idea, beyond what she's said about the conversation being something about another announcer's wife being elected mayor of a California city, what prompted the remark. For all we know she said something mind-bogglingly stupid or even downright offensive & he was responding to that with someone less blatant than his second choice.

For all we know, Franklin was being an asshat. But for all we know, she had much worse coming to her & he's a p.c. victim. What we do know is that he's one of the best in the business at what he does while she could vanish from the airwaves forever tonight & no one would ever notice the difference.

So criticizing someone's work in a professional manner is just off the table as an option?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Drake

If that will get you fired, I should have been fired about 100 times over, and I work for a major American university. Of course, prior to his retirement this summer, my boss would always hold me after meetings to give me his opinion on every set of breasts that had been present, so maybe it's not a huge surprise. He generally referred to women in our office as "pair of tits".

I'm guessing he wouldn't have lasted long at ESPN.

Again, not the the same thing.

If a co-worker said something at a meeting he didn't like, and his response was, "ya, great answer, sweet tits", (and they didn't have the kind of relationship in which that could be construed as a friendly joke), we might be in the the ballpark.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

So criticizing someone's work in a professional manner is just off the table as an option?

She's stated publicly that the context where it was said was not work-related (unless somehow a conversation about with a co-worker about their wife's political success is "work-related"). Based on her own description it seems to have been in a work environment at most & given the often casual nature of broadcast environments & especially in an off-site production meeting (which apparently hadn't started since they were b.s.'ing about another guy's wife).

edit to add:
The trouble started, she said, during a production meeting before Friday's Chick Fil-A Bowl that was also attended by ESPN announcers Rod Gilmore and Ed Cunningham.

Edwards says she was talking with Gilmore about his wife being elected mayor of Alameda, California. After a few minutes, she said Franklin joined in the conversation and said, "Listen to me sweet baby, let me tell you something . . . " with a condescending tone.
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-sweet-cakes/1

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I have a hard time feeling sorry for a guy who should know better.

I often wonder if things like this just happens to some people as they get older. Meaning...it's not that they don't (somewhere inside) "know" better...they just don't have the patience, capacity, whatever to give a shit or hold it in any more. Maybe it's actually more of an onset of Alzheimer's or something...IDK.

Just reminds me of the way my own father has changed throughout the years. He was never a crude guy (and still isn't really) but as he's gotten up in age he's just become a lot more...IDK if there's one word...but unwilling to put up with anything he perceives as nonsense seems to describe it.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

I often wonder if things like this just happens to some people as they get older. Meaning...it's not that they don't (somewhere inside) "know" better...they just don't have the patience, capacity, whatever to give a shit or hold it in any more. Maybe it's actually more of an onset of Alzheimer's or something...IDK.

Just reminds me of the way my own father has changed throughout the years. He was never a crude guy (and still isn't really) but as he's gotten up in age he's just become a lot more...IDK if there's one word...but unwilling to put up with anything he perceives as nonsense seems to describe it.

yeah, he's certainly proven that theory again and again here, to the point where you almost start to feel sorry for the guy.

oh, you were talking about the Franklin dude? Nevermind.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

I often wonder if things like this just happens to some people as they get older.

My dad has started calling all the women he knows/meets/works with "hon" and "sweetheart" over the last ten years or so.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by molson

Again, not the the same thing.

If a co-worker said something at a meeting he didn't like, and his response was, "ya, great answer, sweet tits", (and they didn't have the kind of relationship in which that could be construed as a friendly joke), we might be in the the ballpark.

You're right. He just degraded their intelligence and contribution directly in meetings. He only talked about their tits in private.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Sorry I even posted this. My intent was to get a laugh over a shitty network that most of us here find as a necessary evil.

Didn't realize that even something as innocent as some dumb fucks at ESPN could turn into a dick swinging contest. Connecting this to the crumbling US economy? Lighten the fuck up.

You must be new around here.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Drake

My dad has started calling all the women he knows/meets/works with "hon" and "sweetheart" over the last ten years or so.

That might be similar, or maybe even related. Almost more "grandfatherly" perhaps.

In this case...maybe its "grandfather knows best" and it doesn't quite work that way in the business world as despite your age/summation of experience...you are employee #439 & you are not to speak to employee #973 in a particular tone.

IDK...I never really heard of either of these 2 people and don't know that I've missed anything. I just wonder if this is something this guy would have even said 15 years ago or if it is just what happens to some people (typically termed crotchety).

[Abe Sargent]

I think part of this is regional. back in WV everybody called people of the other gender, hun, or dear, or sweetie or whatnot. I call all sorts of women darling, and I've never gotten in trouble for it despite the over sensitiveness of my field to crap like that


To me, the isuee here isn;t what he said at firs,t but when she requested that he not do so, he called her an asshole.

[Drake]

At least he didn't call her a c**t. I guess he has some sense of decorum.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Also, apparently they are cleaning up their act in anticipation of that book. Supposedly Erik Kuselius wasn't renewed for that reason.

Wait, what ... when did that happen? I liked Erik ... he used to have a good radio show.

[Ksyrup]

He has a new show on the golf channel, left at the end of the year. According to Deadspin, they let him go because of past indiscretions as part of a clean-up of the "horndoggery" as they call it. ESPN spun it as if he got a job and left on his own. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in between. But he's gone.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Wait, what ... when did that happen? I liked Erik ... he used to have a good radio show.

Golf Channel where he can do his thing in peace.