Sonics fan tossed from former owner Schultz' booksigning

[CrimsonFox]

Former SuperSonics owner has Sonics fans tossed from book signing - Ball Don't Lie - NBA*Blog - Yahoo! Sports

I can't imagine what the book is about.

[Dutch]

Wow, I had no idea the Sonics left Seattle.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

That's right, toss his butt out. Go Costco!

[RainMaker]

I worked for Starbucks in High School and he gave every employee a copy of a book he wrote. It was a good company for the most part, but that book was a pile of self-serving crap. Just him telling everyone why he is such an honest and good person. This new book seems like the same thing.

The guy is a good businessman, no one can deny that. But it's annoying to see a dirtball portray himself as some Saint when he's far from it.

[dawgfan]

Fuck Howard Schultz.
Fuck David Stern.
Fuck Clay Bennett.
And fuck Chris Van Dyk.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I worked for Starbucks in High School and he gave every employee a copy of a book he wrote. It was a good company for the most part, but that book was a pile of self-serving crap. Just him telling everyone why he is such an honest and good person. This new book seems like the same thing.

The guy is a good businessman, no one can deny that. But it's annoying to see a dirtball portray himself as some Saint when he's far from it.

I don't drink coffee, so I don't know the whole backstory with Starbucks. Isn't it now just an overpriced coffee version of McDonalds? Aren't they adding all of these new things (wine)? Seems like they're risking their brand and reputation at the expense of short-term revenue and profit growth.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Fuck Howard Schultz.
Fuck David Stern.
Fuck Clay Bennett.
And fuck Chris Van Dyk.

+1

the sonics were the first nba game i'd ever seen. jack sikma ftw.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

...Aren't they adding all of these new things (wine)? Seems like they're risking their brand and reputation at the expense of short-term revenue and profit growth.

I think Schultz was brought back to prevent just this. He left, and they started to bleed. He came back to right the ship, and this book goes over some of the things he's done to pull this off. The guy really is a genius when it comes to managing his brand. I didn't even realize that he was the owner that sold off the Sonics. He certainly didn't manage his own personal "brand" very well in that whole set of events. If the events went down as described briefly there, which I'm not entirely sure of, then he still isn't doing himself any favors on that front.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I don't drink coffee, so I don't know the whole backstory with Starbucks. Isn't it now just an overpriced coffee version of McDonalds? Aren't they adding all of these new things (wine)? Seems like they're risking their brand and reputation at the expense of short-term revenue and profit growth.

To each their own, but I find it to be the best coffee out there (yes better than Tim's and yes I'm Canadian). I feel like I have to drink a large or more at Tim's to feel the same caffeine kick for the "small" (Tall) at Starbucks, so the price difference is only 20 cents or so.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

To each their own, but I find it to be the best coffee out there (yes better than Tim's and yes I'm Canadian). I feel like I have to drink a large or more at Tim's to feel the same caffeine kick for the "small" (Tall) at Starbucks, so the price difference is only 20 cents or so.

As an international brand, I'm sure that Starbucks is about as good as it gets for coffee. However, that's not a particularly high bar. When you get to national or regional brands, I'd take Tully's or SBC over Starbucks, and when you get to the local level, there are vastly superior options in cities that have a significant coffee presence. I know I'm in a pretty snobbish region for coffee/espresso, but I wouldn't ever consider going to a Starbucks with the wealth of local options that are quite a bit better.

Add in the Sonics debacle, and there's zero chance I ever frequent a Starbucks again in my life, at least so long as Howard Schultz is involved with them.

[path12]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

As an international brand, I'm sure that Starbucks is about as good as it gets for coffee. However, that's not a particularly high bar. When you get to national or regional brands, I'd take Tully's or SBC over Starbucks, and when you get to the local level, there are vastly superior options in cities that have a significant coffee presence. I know I'm in a pretty snobbish region for coffee/espresso, but I wouldn't ever consider going to a Starbucks with the wealth of local options that are quite a bit better.

Add in the Sonics debacle, and there's zero chance I ever frequent a Starbucks again in my life, at least so long as Howard Schultz is involved with them.

Well, I couldn't agree more with each of your fuck yous earlier in the thread but dude, if I've got a chance for a gig in Starbucks Corporate I am so fuckin' there.

So if anyone working for Starbucks Corporate HR is reading this and are looking for a planner, PM me. Kthxbai.

[Bigsmooth]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

As an international brand, I'm sure that Starbucks is about as good as it gets for coffee. However, that's not a particularly high bar. When you get to national or regional brands, I'd take Tully's or SBC over Starbucks, and when you get to the local level, there are vastly superior options in cities that have a significant coffee presence. I know I'm in a pretty snobbish region for coffee/espresso, but I wouldn't ever consider going to a Starbucks with the wealth of local options that are quite a bit better.

Add in the Sonics debacle, and there's zero chance I ever frequent a Starbucks again in my life, at least so long as Howard Schultz is involved with them.

Might wanna lay off of SBC since Starbucks owns them too.

sonicsgate.org

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

As an international brand, I'm sure that Starbucks is about as good as it gets for coffee. However, that's not a particularly high bar. When you get to national or regional brands, I'd take Tully's or SBC over Starbucks, and when you get to the local level, there are vastly superior options in cities that have a significant coffee presence. I know I'm in a pretty snobbish region for coffee/espresso, but I wouldn't ever consider going to a Starbucks with the wealth of local options that are quite a bit better.

Add in the Sonics debacle, and there's zero chance I ever frequent a Starbucks again in my life, at least so long as Howard Schultz is involved with them.

While I am sure there are great local coffee places in most cities, though that's not always the case (see, e.g., Detroit) unless you live there and know which local places are good and which aren't, I think it's safer to hit a Starbucks or a Caribou. I've been burned a number of times for trying the "local" option when visiting a city. While Starbucks might not be great, I find it to be consistently good and not really that much more expensive than too many local places. That said, I really just stick with straight-up coffee and rarely ever get any kind of other coffee drink.

I've tried MacDonald's coffee and find it nearly undrinkable.

Tim Horton's is good enough, but I don't like the fact that I don't control the sugar/cream situation. At least not at the one I go to.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I don't drink coffee, so I don't know the whole backstory with Starbucks. Isn't it now just an overpriced coffee version of McDonalds? Aren't they adding all of these new things (wine)? Seems like they're risking their brand and reputation at the expense of short-term revenue and profit growth.

It's a phenomenal business model. Not sure if I'd compare it to McDonalds, but they found a way to mass produce a high end coffee experience with mediocre products.

They tapped into something that people care about, image. People wanted to be seen drinking out of a Starbucks cup, wanted people to know they were classy. I couldn't tell you how many people wanted drinks that tasted nothing like coffee. At some point when you add enough chocolate and whip cream to something, it's chocolate milk, not a coffee product. And that person was willing to pay $5 for it as long as it came in a nice Starbucks cup. I know a ton about coffee having worked there, andy they aren't any better than what you'll find at Dunkin Donuts or McDonalds.

Outside of the Sonics thing, they had some shady dealings. One being how they treated competition. There was always talk about how they would pressure distributors to stop dealing with the smaller coffee shops in the community. They purposely would buy out leases in the community to force competitors out. There is probably more out there, but I always got the vibe that the public image they presented was fake.

Can't speak for them today, but they did treat their store employees well. You were able to get insurance as a part-time worker, they had a nice 401k and stock option plan, and you got free drinks on duty and a pound of coffee a week. The pay was also considerably higher than most food service jobs in the area.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

While I am sure there are great local coffee places in most cities, though that's not always the case (see, e.g., Detroit) unless you live there and know which local places are good and which aren't, I think it's safer to hit a Starbucks or a Caribou. I've been burned a number of times for trying the "local" option when visiting a city. While Starbucks might not be great, I find it to be consistently good and not really that much more expensive than too many local places. That said, I really just stick with straight-up coffee and rarely ever get any kind of other coffee drink.

I've tried MacDonald's coffee and find it nearly undrinkable.

Tim Horton's is good enough, but I don't like the fact that I don't control the sugar/cream situation. At least not at the one I go to.

I'd give McDonalds another try if you haven't had them in awhile. They get their coffee from a lot of the same sources as Starbucks these days and it's on par with them now. Dunkin Donuts has been better than both for awhile now. Everyone is using Arabica beans which wasn't the case a decade ago.

It's also probably what someone is used to. I was addicted to Starbucks for awhile simply because it's all I drank for years. Had to switch to Dunkin Donuts and got used to that after awhile. They are all pretty similar except you'll pay three times as much to get a fancy cup and listen to some jazz music in the background at Starbucks.

Espresso drinks are another story. That can come down to just how good the barista is. Or how good that particular store's machine is. I'd take Starbucks over others in that area because they typically have better machines and individuals who have more experience working on them. When i started, I had to sit through 12 hours of coffee classes before I could start. And then you don't even get trained on the machine for another couple months. So anyone making a drink at a store knows their shit (or at least did). Sadly it's been over 10 years and I remember how to make every single drink they have.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's a phenomenal business model. Not sure if I'd compare it to McDonalds, but they found a way to mass produce a high end coffee experience with mediocre products.

They tapped into something that people care about, image. People wanted to be seen drinking out of a Starbucks cup, wanted people to know they were classy. I couldn't tell you how many people wanted drinks that tasted nothing like coffee. At some point when you add enough chocolate and whip cream to something, it's chocolate milk, not a coffee product. And that person was willing to pay $5 for it as long as it came in a nice Starbucks cup. I know a ton about coffee having worked there, andy they aren't any better than what you'll find at Dunkin Donuts or McDonalds.

Huh. I never really thought of Starbucks being an image thing or being considered "classy." Maybe that's how it was viewed back in the day, by some, but I don't think it is now.

I've had coffee and Dunkin Donuts and McDonalds and they don't really compare. Maybe I'm just more used to Starbucks. Can't be what's on the cup, though, since I almost always bring in my own travel mug with either the Red Wings symbol or the Detroit English D on it. So maybe it is what's on the cup after all...

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Outside of the Sonics thing, they had some shady dealings. One being how they treated competition. There was always talk about how they would pressure distributors to stop dealing with the smaller coffee shops in the community. They purposely would buy out leases in the community to force competitors out. There is probably more out there, but I always got the vibe that the public image they presented was fake.

That's capitalism, baby.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I'd give McDonalds another try if you haven't had them in awhile. They get their coffee from a lot of the same sources as Starbucks these days and it's on par with them now. Dunkin Donuts has been better than both for awhile now. Everyone is using Arabica beans which wasn't the case a decade ago.

It's also probably what someone is used to. I was addicted to Starbucks for awhile simply because it's all I drank for years. Had to switch to Dunkin Donuts and got used to that after awhile. They are all pretty similar except you'll pay three times as much to get a fancy cup and listen to some jazz music in the background at Starbucks.

Espresso drinks are another story. That can come down to just how good the barista is. Or how good that particular store's machine is. I'd take Starbucks over others in that area because they typically have better machines and individuals who have more experience working on them.

I got McDonalds coffee back in December and didn't do anything for me. I last had Dunkin' Donuts coffee last June or so. It was ok, but, if I recall, like Tim Horton's, they controlled the sugar/cream input, so I didn't like it as much.

I recently bought a bag of Dunkin' Donuts coffee for use at home and ended up tossing it out. Just didn't like the taste at all. I love my morning coffee and hate when it's sullied. I got some new brand that's really quite good.

I rarely ever drink coffee in a Starbucks. I pop in, get my mug filled and pop out. If I am going to sit some place I usually hit the Caribou coffee around here. I like the ambiance better.

I will easily admit that I might like Starbucks coffee because I have grown accustomed to it or expect it to taste better and if someone were to serve me a Starbucks, McDonalds or Dunkin Donuts coffee in a blind taste test, I wouldn't know the difference or if someone served McDonald's coffee from Starbucks, I think it'd be fine. 90% of perception, after all, is based on the one who is perceiving.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Huh. I never really thought of Starbucks being an image thing or being considered "classy." Maybe that's how it was viewed back in the day, by some, but I don't think it is now.

I've had coffee and Dunkin Donuts and McDonalds and they don't really compare. Maybe I'm just more used to Starbucks. Can't be what's on the cup, though, since I almost always bring in my own travel mug with either the Red Wings symbol or the Detroit English D on it. So maybe it is what's on the cup after all...

Same beans, same process of transport, and often the same brewing techniques. It was different years ago but companies like DD and McDonalds have invested a lot of money in higher quality beans. Even Burger King uses Seattle's Best which is owned by Starbucks and gets their beans from the same places.

I remember it being viewed as a trendy establishment. They had the nice decor, music, and atmosphere.

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

That's capitalism, baby.

Definitely and I'm not shitting on them for that. Just find it funny when the guy writes a book about how Starbucks is a great company that never lost its soul. When in fact they're as shrewd as any other company out there.

[Lathum]

I love Dunkin Donuts coffee. It is probably more because that is what I drank when I was younger. I find starbucks vile and feel like a prisoner here. I am also a big fan of WaWa coffee.

[Izulde]

I've personally really gotten to like the Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf brand here in Las Vegas. Better than Starbucks.

[DaddyTorgo]

Didn't know you used to work at *$ RainMaker. I did more than my fair share of time there of course.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I remember it being viewed as a trendy establishment. They had the nice decor, music, and atmosphere.

Maybe when it was becoming popular in the 90s, but now with it outnumbering any other coffee place in a city by about a 20-1 margin, I laugh my ass off at you making constant references to people "wanting to be seen" drinking out of a Starbucks cup.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Logan

Maybe when it was becoming popular in the 90s, but now with it outnumbering any other coffee place in a city by about a 20-1 margin, I laugh my ass off at you making constant references to people "wanting to be seen" drinking out of a Starbucks cup.

I don't think it's like it was 20 years ago, but the mindset still exists.

(I think I've posted this in another thread at one point, either the Random Thoughts or Pet Peeves).

My prior job, working in town, one of the bigger buildings. In the lobby was a coffee stand for one of the local coffee places. That is where everybody on the floor got their coffee on the floor. But, every so often, a group would announce they were going to grab coffee....but "not a Crazy Mocha...we are going to Starbucks this afternoon!!". Starbucks was 2 blocks away, but to them it was some mythical fairyland. Same whipped-cream, 1/2 skim, whatever drinks they had downstairs. But it was cool (to them) to say they were going to Sbucks instead.

I am a coffee drinker, but not really a coffee snob. I prefer a local place, or a Dunkin Donuts or Tim's to Starbucks, but then again maybe my unsophisticated palate can't handle Starbucks.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

While I am sure there are great local coffee places in most cities, though that's not always the case (see, e.g., Detroit) unless you live there and know which local places are good and which aren't, I think it's safer to hit a Starbucks or a Caribou. I've been burned a number of times for trying the "local" option when visiting a city. While Starbucks might not be great, I find it to be consistently good and not really that much more expensive than too many local places. That said, I really just stick with straight-up coffee and rarely ever get any kind of other coffee drink.

I've tried MacDonald's coffee and find it nearly undrinkable.

Tim Horton's is good enough, but I don't like the fact that I don't control the sugar/cream situation. At least not at the one I go to.

Is Brazil still in Royal Oak? Probably not the easiest place for a morning pop-in, but I liked that one.

[stevew]

There is no civilized reason for the douchey fan to act like an insane stalker. Yes, you lost the Sonics and I'm sure it was shitty. But this outburst serves no purpose and I'm pretty sure that Shultz, etal, know that they are compassion free dickheads and above the law.

And I will help load the Cavs on a uhaul if you guys want them.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Is Brazil still in Royal Oak? Probably not the easiest place for a morning pop-in, but I liked that one.

I don't think it is. The only local coffee shop I know of in downtown Royal Oak is "The Bean & Leaf."

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

I don't think it's like it was 20 years ago, but the mindset still exists.

Fair enough. My experience is probably just more contained to NYC.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Logan

Fair enough. My experience is probably just more contained to NYC.

Granted this is the Pittsburg POV...we get everything 20 years later

[RedHawk00]

i miss the sonics, was a big fan of the X-Man! Boo costco for inviting the prick to sign books!

[RedHawk00]

dola, long live the Scheffler chants when we were blowing fools out with Payton, Kemp, Detlef and the boys!

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by stevew

There is no civilized reason for the douchey fan to act like an insane stalker. Yes, you lost the Sonics and I'm sure it was shitty. But this outburst serves no purpose and I'm pretty sure that Shultz, etal, know that they are compassion free dickheads and above the law.

See, I disagree - I think Schultz should be reminded at every possible circumstance that he's a dickhead, that we the public haven't forgotten what he did.

[RainMaker]

It's a free country and Schultz had the right to sell the team, lie to fans, and watch it move to OKC. And this guy has the right to tell Schultz what lying sack of human excrement he is whenever he wants to. Dont' have a problem with Costco throwing him out or Schultz being an insensitive pussy. The Sonics meant a lot to people in that city and was there long before Schultz was making money. You shit on a city and you get shit on in return.

[chesapeake]

The big problem, as I see it, is that David Stern wasn't sitting next to Schultz have insults hurled at him, too.

[gstelmack]

So I watched the video finally, and let me get this straight:

- Producer had been told once early on to stay back, since he had a camera (told to bo behind the curtain at one point)
- Producer cuts into the line
- Producer gets guy to say something (note the video cuts just after he says "want to try something" (or something similar) and just before that guy goes to the head of the line
- The whole "calmly walks to the back of the line" bit is cut out
- He's the one trying to put the "wearing Sonics gear" into the reason

He got booted because he got someone to yell at Schultz, and then was filiming the whole thing. Schultz may be an idiot, a jerk, etc, but this producer walked in to get kicked out. Tough, no sympathy from me.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I don't think it is. The only local coffee shop I know of in downtown Royal Oak is "The Bean & Leaf."

That's the place that will set up a free tea tasting, right?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I think Schultz was brought back to prevent just this. He left, and they started to bleed. He came back to right the ship, and this book goes over some of the things he's done to pull this off. The guy really is a genius when it comes to managing his brand. I didn't even realize that he was the owner that sold off the Sonics. He certainly didn't manage his own personal "brand" very well in that whole set of events. If the events went down as described briefly there, which I'm not entirely sure of, then he still isn't doing himself any favors on that front.

Aren't they adding the wine prospects now? The new logo just was reveled? He, along with the rest of his team, done an amazing job in building a model that put Starbucks on the map. Created a great product at the time, a good environment and customer service, and a brand that people turn to. Are they diluting their brand, products, and becoming too "accessible"? Is drinking Starbucks still having that same cache they use to?

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's a phenomenal business model. Not sure if I'd compare it to McDonalds, but they found a way to mass produce a high end coffee experience with mediocre products.

They tapped into something that people care about, image. People wanted to be seen drinking out of a Starbucks cup, wanted people to know they were classy. I couldn't tell you how many people wanted drinks that tasted nothing like coffee. At some point when you add enough chocolate and whip cream to something, it's chocolate milk, not a coffee product. And that person was willing to pay $5 for it as long as it came in a nice Starbucks cup. I know a ton about coffee having worked there, andy they aren't any better than what you'll find at Dunkin Donuts or McDonalds.