Grill Masters: Recommend Me A Grill...

[Chief Rum]

Hey everyone,

You would think living in Cali I would be all up about grills, but it's never been my thing. In fact, it still isn't.

But I have a friend who has decided to buy a grill for her BF for V-Day, and she is frankly confused by all the options. I knew I couldn't help her directly, but you guys are awesome at this stuff, so figured I would ask you.

She is looking for something under $300, so lots of room to maneuver there. She and her BF have moved into a new apartment so it has to be renter space type. I don't even know what other questions to ask, unfortunately.

She's looking for a good quality grill, preferably that also looks good, too.

Any recommendations?

[weegeebored]

Gas or charcoal? It doesn't matter, though. I am a big Weber grill fan but depending on what she wants it may be over the allowed budget as they are relatively pricey. There was a recent thread here about grills and some people posted alternate brands that they were happy with so maybe they will chime in again.

[albionmoonlight]

Weber is a great brand.

I've also been very happy with my MasterBuilt Kingsford grill: MasterBuilt

[Blackadar]

I don't want to bogart Chief's thread, but while ya'll are making recommendations, I'd like one on a cheap (I'm not spending more than maybe $100-$150), small smoker.

I already have a pretty new gas grill that I'm not going to replace (convenience > charcoal taste), but I want something I can put a 15 pound pork shoulder in or a couple of racks of ribs and let them smoke for 10-12 hours. BBQ in the crock pot just doesn't cut it versus a smoked shoulder and I want something I can use somewhat regularly (maybe once a week) but is small enough to put away. Probably a gas or electric one...it gets cold enough here that coals just can't hold the heat during the winter - and something that allows me to regulate the temp would help.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I don't want to bogart Chief's thread, but while ya'll are making recommendations, I'd like one on a cheap (I'm not spending more than maybe $100-$150), small smoker.

I already have a pretty new gas grill that I'm not going to replace (convenience > charcoal taste), but I want something I can put a 15 pound pork shoulder in or a couple of racks of ribs and let them smoke for 10-12 hours. BBQ in the crock pot just doesn't cut it versus a smoked shoulder and I want something I can use somewhat regularly (maybe once a week) but is small enough to put away. Probably a gas or electric one...it gets cold enough here that coals just can't hold the heat during the winter - and something that allows me to regulate the temp would help.

I think I mentioned this in a thread elsewhere, and traditionalists may skewer me, but my wife got me an electric smoker two christmases ago that is amazing. Since you take convenience over charcoal taste for grilling, this may be up your alley.

Let me explain first. You are still cooking with wood, it's just that the heat source is an electric heat element, not charcoals. So, you have a tray for wood that slides in the bottom and touches the heat element. You also have a tray for water as it is a "wet smoke".

I have been AMAZINGLY successful with this. Taste-wise, imo, there's little to no difference between this and "real" smoking. The only difference is you don't get the "experience" that traditionalists get from tending to the coals. The only "work" you have to do is refilling the wood chip tray every 45 minutes or so for the first couple of hours.

So, here is the smoker I have (well, not the exact one as it's changed slightly, but still):

Amazon.com: Masterbuilt 20070910 30-Inch Electric Smokehouse Smoker, Black: Patio, Lawn & Garden

It's listed at $199.99, but I know sometimes you can find it for $150. I'd recommend splurging the extra $50 for the ease of use. You'll smoke so much more if you're like me because it is so easy.

If this intrigues you and you have questions on the specifics, let me know.

[wade moore]

Looks like Googling finds some slightly better prices fwiw...

Masterbuilt 20070910 - Google Search

[stevew]

I have a Kenmore one similar to Wade's. My major problem is the doors don't seal enough. Some ratchet straps fixed that, though. It's turned out some really good food, but tbh I'm not patient enough to smoke very often.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

I have a Kenmore one similar to Wade's. My major problem is the doors don't seal enough. Some ratchet straps fixed that, though. It's turned out some really good food, but tbh I'm not patient enough to smoke very often.

I've yet to have this type of problem with a year or so of smoking and using it.. idano.. 20ish times?

From reviews I've read, this masterbuilt seems to get rated quite a bit higher than others in its pricerange.

[stevew]

I'm sure that the build quality is probably a ton better. I think I spent like ~40 on mine clearance and it was maybe like 150 retail. I'd guess it is a weber rebadged.

Anyways Wade, how do you get the food to be more smoked and less steamed? I seem to have issues on occasion where I find I don't get the outer crust like I would expect. I may have the issue with the fact that I tend to smoke below freezing and have to crank the heat in order to get an in box temp around 200. It's also possible my thermometer is bullocks too.

[Chief Rum]

Newbie alert: It was asked if it should be charcoal or gas (and maybe now electric, too?). I haven't the slightest. Which type is better?

Good stuff so far, guys, thanks. I'll search around for that other grill thread, too.

FWIW, I am guessing my friend is looking for a traditional grill style BBQ, not a smoker.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Newbie alert: It was asked if it should be charcoal or gas (and maybe now electric, too?). I haven't the slightest. Which type is better?

Good stuff so far, guys, thanks. I'll search around for that other grill thread, too.

FWIW, I am guessing my friend is looking for a traditional grill style BBQ, not a smoker.

Chief, since I derailed your thread a bit regarding my smoker question, let me help answer. Even the North vs. South in the Civil War had less animosity than the charcoal vs. gas debate. There is no middle ground.

I used a charcoal Weber for years and I love the quality of the product. You can't go wrong with it. The charcoal imbues the meat with a slight smokey flavor which is very tasty. Weber is a quality product and I did a lot of enjoyable grilling with my Weber.

But...

Charcoal can be a royal pain in the ass. It's tough to get the coals hot enough in cold weather, especially if your grilling area is open to the wind/elements. I had spring/fall days where I simply had to finish cooking indoors because the coals wouldn't get lit or wouldn't stay warm enough. Let me tell you, standing outside trying to grill steaks in 30 MPH winds and failing tends to piss you off. Some coals - the ones with lighter fluid soaked into the coals - can leave a pretty funky flavor on your meat as well. Plus, you need to give the coals time to warm up and that can take 10-20 minutes. Clean-up can be a bit of a pain as well since you have to dump the ash.

So I switched to gas and never looked back. I can duplicate the charcoal flavor by either burning wood chips in the grill or just adding a touch of liquid smoke to the meat (or burning it off in the grill). Temperature regulation is much easier and I can cook stuff for a long while at constant temps. It doesn't matter if it's windy, I can still get the thing lit and be ready to grill in 3-5 minutes. So I've been a gas convert for close to 10 years now. A couple of years ago, I bought a fairly cheap ($199) Grill Master 4 burner gas grill from Lowes and I've been very happy with it.

Neither will do the kind of smoking that I want, hence the reason for another grill...

[stevew]

They make combo charcoal/propane grills. Gives you the flexibility to grill a few chicken breasts or hamburgers after work, vs Saturday afternoon steaks.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Newbie alert: It was asked if it should be charcoal or gas (and maybe now electric, too?). I haven't the slightest. Which type is better?
.

CHARCOAL:
Good: better flavor (to some). Cheaper.
Bad: takes a long time to cook, can sometimes cook unevenly if you're not paying attention. Messy.

GAS
Good: Cooks fast and even and easy to clean.
Bad: less flavor (to some). More expensive.

ELECTRIC:
Good/bad: same as gas.
Problem with electric is you need to plug it in somewhere, and problem with gas is you have to you fill the tanks up every so often.


If you really can't taste the difference then just go with gas since it's more convenient. I like charcoal myself, but with gas everything is so much easier.
EDIT: I also roll my grill all around my property to cook (parties, etc), so if you're moving it all over the place maybe gas over electric.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I don't want to bogart Chief's thread, but while ya'll are making recommendations, I'd like one on a cheap (I'm not spending more than maybe $100-$150), small smoker.

I already have a pretty new gas grill that I'm not going to replace (convenience > charcoal taste), but I want something I can put a 15 pound pork shoulder in or a couple of racks of ribs and let them smoke for 10-12 hours. BBQ in the crock pot just doesn't cut it versus a smoked shoulder and I want something I can use somewhat regularly (maybe once a week) but is small enough to put away. Probably a gas or electric one...it gets cold enough here that coals just can't hold the heat during the winter - and something that allows me to regulate the temp would help.

How handy are you?? My buddies have a drum smoker for camping, which is beyond awesome. Pretty to easy to make. Just be sure the drum wasn't carrying radioactive materials!

[Rizon]

Note: not us, but an example

[cartman]

My cousin and I built one of the "big baby double barrel" smokers (Google the stuff in quotes). We found a couple of 55 gallon drums on Craigslist that had vegetable oil in them for $10 each, then bought the other parts at Northern Tool. It took most of a day, but it came out pretty good. My main complaint with it is that the metal isn't real thick, and doesn't hold heat real well, so you have to tend to the fire more often and it uses more wood than other offset smokers I have used.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

I'm sure that the build quality is probably a ton better. I think I spent like ~40 on mine clearance and it was maybe like 150 retail. I'd guess it is a weber rebadged.

Anyways Wade, how do you get the food to be more smoked and less steamed? I seem to have issues on occasion where I find I don't get the outer crust like I would expect. I may have the issue with the fact that I tend to smoke below freezing and have to crank the heat in order to get an in box temp around 200. It's also possible my thermometer is bullocks too.

I think that's a bit of a loaded question. From reading, I think some of that answer may just be in the quality of your smoker, but...

I bought a book - Amazon.com: Backyard BBQ: The Art of Smokology (9780971801424): Richard W. McPeake: Books - that gave me a lot of basics though. Not sure how much of this may be old news to you but a few key things with that specific item:

1. Smoke is only absorbed up until the meet reaches a certain temperature (I want to say 140 degrees, but don't quote me on that). So, you want, in theory, for the meat to take as long to get to 140 degrees as possible. What this means is (a) put it on as cold as possible (b) cook it as slowly as possible. So, for instance, you don't want meat to "rest" to room temperature like you would if you were grilling it.

2. I have toyed around with this and decided that it's best to get the wood going for about 30 minutes before you put the meat in. Yes, I waste some wood chips that way, but then I ensure that i have a good smoke.

3. The 200 degrees is a flag to me. With mine, and I think this may be an element of these electrics, I seem to get a lot less smoke when I'm under 225 degrees. So, despite what I said above, I do tend to let it go to 225 unless it's something (like fish) that really shouldn't be cooked that high. Sometimes I'll cook it for the first couple of hours at 225 until it's not going to absorb smoke anymore and then turn it down if that's appropriate.


Not sure if any of that helps.

[cartman]

There is a difference in the smoke created from an electric smoker and a charcoal smoker. With a wood fire, you get more nitrogen, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide generated. These gases penetrate the meat, and give what is recognized as the pink smoke ring and "smoky" flavor. With an electric smoker, less volumes of the gases are created, due to the wood product turning to ash at a lower temperature. Also with electrics, more fresh air is introduced due to the lower combustion temperature, which also affects the absorption process.

That's not to say that electric smokers don't produce a tasty product. It is just that the two methods produce different products.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by cartman

There is a difference in the smoke created from an electric smoker and a charcoal smoker. With a wood fire, you get more nitrogen, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide generated. These gases penetrate the meat, and give what is recognized as the pink smoke ring and "smoky" flavor. With an electric smoker, less volumes of the gases are created, due to the wood product turning to ash at a lower temperature. Also with electrics, more fresh air is introduced due to the lower combustion temperature, which also affects the absorption process.

That's not to say that electric smokers don't produce a tasty product. It is just that the two methods produce different products.

I've read on this extensively and most of what you're saying, by my reading, is actually a load of hogwash.

I really don't want to get in a good debate, but most reliable research I've read shows that there is no discernible taste difference between electric and charcoal smoked meat, assuming you're using wood and doing it properly.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I don't want to bogart Chief's thread, but while ya'll are making recommendations, I'd like one on a cheap (I'm not spending more than maybe $100-$150), small smoker.

I already have a pretty new gas grill that I'm not going to replace (convenience > charcoal taste), but I want something I can put a 15 pound pork shoulder in or a couple of racks of ribs and let them smoke for 10-12 hours. BBQ in the crock pot just doesn't cut it versus a smoked shoulder and I want something I can use somewhat regularly (maybe once a week) but is small enough to put away. Probably a gas or electric one...it gets cold enough here that coals just can't hold the heat during the winter - and something that allows me to regulate the temp would help.

UDS! Nothing beats building your own Ugly Drum Smoker.



Takes some time to figure out what you want to do, but I love mine.

Pics! Our UDS Cooker (and How to Build One) - Part 1

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I think that's a bit of a loaded question. From reading, I think some of that answer may just be in the quality of your smoker, but...

I bought a book - Amazon.com: Backyard BBQ: The Art of Smokology (9780971801424): Richard W. McPeake: Books - that gave me a lot of basics though. Not sure how much of this may be old news to you but a few key things with that specific item:

1. Smoke is only absorbed up until the meet reaches a certain temperature (I want to say 140 degrees, but don't quote me on that). So, you want, in theory, for the meat to take as long to get to 140 degrees as possible. What this means is (a) put it on as cold as possible (b) cook it as slowly as possible. So, for instance, you don't want meat to "rest" to room temperature like you would if you were grilling it.

2. I have toyed around with this and decided that it's best to get the wood going for about 30 minutes before you put the meat in. Yes, I waste some wood chips that way, but then I ensure that i have a good smoke.

3. The 200 degrees is a flag to me. With mine, and I think this may be an element of these electrics, I seem to get a lot less smoke when I'm under 225 degrees. So, despite what I said above, I do tend to let it go to 225 unless it's something (like fish) that really shouldn't be cooked that high. Sometimes I'll cook it for the first couple of hours at 225 until it's not going to absorb smoke anymore and then turn it down if that's appropriate.


Not sure if any of that helps.

IMO if you are cooking anything other than fish under 210 you are doing it wrong.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I think that's a bit of a loaded question. From reading, I think some of that answer may just be in the quality of your smoker, but...

I bought a book - Amazon.com: Backyard BBQ: The Art of Smokology (9780971801424): Richard W. McPeake: Books - that gave me a lot of basics though. Not sure how much of this may be old news to you but a few key things with that specific item:

1. Smoke is only absorbed up until the meet reaches a certain temperature (I want to say 140 degrees, but don't quote me on that). So, you want, in theory, for the meat to take as long to get to 140 degrees as possible. What this means is (a) put it on as cold as possible (b) cook it as slowly as possible. So, for instance, you don't want meat to "rest" to room temperature like you would if you were grilling it.

2. I have toyed around with this and decided that it's best to get the wood going for about 30 minutes before you put the meat in. Yes, I waste some wood chips that way, but then I ensure that i have a good smoke.

3. The 200 degrees is a flag to me. With mine, and I think this may be an element of these electrics, I seem to get a lot less smoke when I'm under 225 degrees. So, despite what I said above, I do tend to let it go to 225 unless it's something (like fish) that really shouldn't be cooked that high. Sometimes I'll cook it for the first couple of hours at 225 until it's not going to absorb smoke anymore and then turn it down if that's appropriate.


Not sure if any of that helps.

That does help. What kind of wood are you using. I sometimes wonder if it's maybe the chips, vs other things. There's been several times where my smoker has turned out some amazing stuff, and others where it's been more meh. I might just scrap the whole thing and start over with a new one.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

That does help. What kind of wood are you using. I sometimes wonder if it's maybe the chips, vs other things. There's been several times where my smoker has turned out some amazing stuff, and others where it's been more meh. I might just scrap the whole thing and start over with a new one.

I've mostly used various types of woods from Weber like this:

Amazon.com: Weber 17004 Apple Wood Chips, 3-Pound: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Just because they're easy to find and well-priced on Amazon.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

IMO if you are cooking anything other than fish under 210 you are doing it wrong.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you. But even 210 I've had some trouble with producing enough smoke on my unit.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I've mostly used various types of woods from Weber like this:

Amazon.com: Weber 17004 Apple Wood Chips, 3-Pound: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Just because they're easy to find and well-priced on Amazon.

Yikes, i found some reviews of the smoker i have and they are brutal. Seems to be in line with "it worked good at first, but quickly the element burned out and it doesn't get hot enough" Which is my experience exactly.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yikes, i found some reviews of the smoker i have and they are brutal. Seems to be in line with "it worked good at first, but quickly the element burned out and it doesn't get hot enough" Which is my experience exactly.

Yeah.. when i was researching it seemed like the Masterbuilt was rated DRAMATICALLY better than anything else in the sub $200 range, let alone the price you said you paid.

Now, there are some that score better, but they are in the $600 range.

[Logan]

Threads like this make me excited for being out of NYC in a few years.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I've mostly used various types of woods from Weber like this:

Amazon.com: Weber 17004 Apple Wood Chips, 3-Pound: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Just because they're easy to find and well-priced on Amazon.

Easy to find? Yes
Well-priced? Uh, no.

I am holding in my hand a bag of the same Wood Chips that you linked to for $7.99 on Amazon. It still has the $4.99 price tag on it. That's the everyday price at the hardware store down the street from me. I *think* the same chip are as low as $4.49 at the nearest Lowe's, but that's inconvenient for me.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you. But even 210 I've had some trouble with producing enough smoke on my unit.

Well I only do charcoal, typically at 225 (but it fluctuates from 215-240 due to airflow). I was just trying to say you need it higher.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Well I only do charcoal, typically at 225 (but it fluctuates from 215-240 due to airflow). I was just trying to say you need it higher.

Well, some books I have call for 210-215 for stuff. :shurg:

I've pretty much come to the same conclusion as you though.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Well, some books I have call for 210-215 for stuff. :shurg:

I've pretty much come to the same conclusion as you though.

But what do I know, I'm a Californian, and everyone knows you can't find good smoked meat here in SoCal, unless you do it yourself!

[cartman]

The way I've seen others do fish in an electric smoker is to rig up dryer vents and have the hotter fire burning a couple of feet away, and direct the smoke to the cabinet with the vents. With tuning, they get the smoke anywhere between 100 and 170, depending on what they are trying to do. But this is a pretty involved process, and doesn't work with all smokers.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by cartman

The way I've seen others do fish in an electric smoker is to rig up dryer vents and have the hotter fire burning a couple of feet away, and direct the smoke to the cabinet with the vents. With tuning, they get the smoke anywhere between 100 and 170, depending on what they are trying to do. But this is a pretty involved process, and doesn't work with all smokers.

I've smoked fish on mine without issue or any sort of secondary contraption. The good thing is, even though you don't get as much smoke at the low temps on an electric, fish really absorbs smoke very well so it's not that big of a deal.

[cartman]

But that isn't cold smoking. If you want to cold smoke at less than 200 degrees, then some sort of modification is necessary.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by cartman

But that isn't cold smoking. If you want to cold smoke at less than 200 degrees, then some sort of modification is necessary.

You didn't specify - that is an entirely different ballgame. A lot of smokers, not just electric, have issues with that.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Easy to find? Yes
Well-priced? Uh, no.

I am holding in my hand a bag of the same Wood Chips that you linked to for $7.99 on Amazon. It still has the $4.99 price tag on it. That's the everyday price at the hardware store down the street from me. I *think* the same chip are as low as $4.49 at the nearest Lowe's, but that's inconvenient for me.

$4.99 at Home Depot.

[wade moore]

Well, anyway, that's not all that critical. Point is - that's what I've used and had success with.

[Raiders Army]

I've been looking at the Big Steel Keg, which IMHO is a better buy than the Big Green Egg. From what I can tell, you can keep a constant temperature with these charcoal grills quite easily.

BIG STEEL KEG GRILL

[GrantDawg]

I just bought this beautiful baby. Gas and Charcoal side by side, with a side-burner eye.

Grill Closed.jpg

Grill Open.jpg

Seasoning it up right now. Steaks and salmon tonight, baby!

[stevew]

I hated the Char Broil(Kenmore Branded) Infrared Grill i got at first, mainly because it was such a pain in the ass to clean. Once I finally found a grill brush that I liked, it has been amazing. I feel like I'm cooking to the temps that I used to when I worked at a steak house. Plus there's no flare ups, etc.



I'm thinking about getting the natural gas kit for it, as I really don't use any gas at all during the summer.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I just bought this beautiful baby. Gas and Charcoal side by side, with a side-burner eye.

Attachment 4008

Attachment 4009

Seasoning it up right now. Steaks and salmon tonight, baby!

You sonofabitch, you stole my grill!!!

Actually, just bought that same grill, pick it up on Friday for a grillin' weekend.

[Ben E Lou]

I finally decided to go with a vertical smoker. I've been using a side smoker for years. This baby should arrive on Thursday:

Amazon.com: Weber 731001 Smokey Mountain Cooker 22-1/2-Inch Charcoal Smoker, Black: Patio, Lawn & Garden

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I finally decided to go with a vertical smoker. I've been using a side smoker for years. This baby should arrive on Thursday:

Amazon.com: Weber 731001 Smokey Mountain Cooker 22-1/2-Inch Charcoal Smoker, Black: Patio, Lawn & Garden

Can't go wrong with that. My dad does competition cooking and he has 2 of these and at one of the events I was at, almost everyone was using these for one of their meats.

[Dutch]

I volunteer to beta test.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Can't go wrong with that. My dad does competition cooking and he has 2 of these and at one of the events I was at, almost everyone was using these for one of their meats.

Yeah, I did a fair bit of research and this seemed to be the way to go for someone who likes to smoke as frequently as I do, and with significant volume at least once a year. I'm very excited about it.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I don't want to bogart Chief's thread, but while ya'll are making recommendations, I'd like one on a cheap (I'm not spending more than maybe $100-$150), small smoker.

I already have a pretty new gas grill that I'm not going to replace (convenience > charcoal taste), but I want something I can put a 15 pound pork shoulder in or a couple of racks of ribs and let them smoke for 10-12 hours. BBQ in the crock pot just doesn't cut it versus a smoked shoulder and I want something I can use somewhat regularly (maybe once a week) but is small enough to put away. Probably a gas or electric one...it gets cold enough here that coals just can't hold the heat during the winter - and something that allows me to regulate the temp would help.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/brinkma...l#.UNsh-Hy9KK0

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

Can't go wrong with that. My dad does competition cooking and he has 2 of these and at one of the events I was at, almost everyone was using these for one of their meats.

I started my first cook with this sucker half an hour ago. It's easy to tell already that I've entered an entirely new realm. Wow.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I started my first cook with this sucker half an hour ago. It's easy to tell already that I've entered an entirely new realm. Wow.

Enjoy it, the only other smoker my dad has is a backwoods smoker that was like $1600 and he is actually looking at one of the pellet smokers, that is the one that has been helping teams win the competitions.

[Ben E Lou]

[digamma]

How many hours we goin' on those?