2012 MLB Thread (Cabrera Gets Triple Crown, first since Yaz 1967)

[k0ruptr]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Somebody might oughta send the Braves a memo about that

or Matt Kemp

[Chief Rum]

I am guessing everyone will know in the next few hours because Sportscenter will show the highlight a million times, but Pujols finally jacked one. Two run homer in the fifth.

[Suicane75]

Meh, call me when he hits six homers in three days.

[molson]

Bottom of the 16th in Boston and the Red Sox are out of pitchers - Darnell McDonald is warming up in the bullpen. Nick Markakis will probably soon be warming up for Baltimore.

Edit: McDonald is now pitching in the top of the 17th. And Chris Davis pitched the 16th for the Orioles - he threw a shutout inning (including a K of Saltalamacchia) and is line to be the winning pitcher now. (I should have a little more confidence that the Red Sox can get a few runs off Chris Davis or whatever other position player comes in in the bottom of the 17th, but I really don't)....That would result in an interesting line for Chris Davis - 0-for-8 with 5 strikeouts as a hitter, 2 innings with at least 1 strikeout and the W as a pitcher.

[molson]

Davis would be the fist AL position player to record a win as a pitcher since Rocky Colavito in 1968 if he can hold on.

[DanGarion]

LIFTOFF!

[molson]

And Chris Davis just K'd Adrian Gonzalez on 3 pitches....Gonzalez is 0-for-8 today.....and then he gets Ortiz to ground into an game-ending double play. Rock bottom for the Red Sox?

[CraigSca]

EPIC!

[PilotMan]

And Javy Guerra blows another for the Dodgers. :/

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Think about this for a second. Baseball has had trends for years that changed the climate from run-heavy to pitcher heavy. You think that hitters were the only ones using drugs? You don't look at this with a more critical thought and recognize the advent of pitching friendly ballparks having an effect? I realize the one liner is easy, but its usually not that simple.

I bet that batters on drugs have more of an impact day to to day than the occasional pitcher on drugs in baseball. I can tell you that neither Greg Maddux nor Orel Hershiser ever used performance enhancing drugs, but that even if they did, the net gain by their teams would be less than if Mark McGwire gains.

I am well aware of the the trends in baseball. But the only real change away from the hitter friendly times of the late 80's through the early 2000's has been the start of serious drug testing. Parks are not bigger, pitchers are not suddenly that much better, mounds are not higher, strike zones are not larger. Small ball has a much bigger impact, and we no longer have guys with 35 HR's at the all star break.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

And Javy Guerra blows another for the Dodgers. :/

Give it to Jansen

[tucker rocky]

What are others thoughts on Cole Hamels admitting that he threw at
Bryce Harper on purpose?

Harper took the message professionally, as did Hamels when Jordan Zimmermann
plunked him.

Hamels response being "welcome to the big leagues".

Hamels did have to pay for this later in the inning, when runners on 1st and 3rd, Hamels attempted a pickoff at 1st, but Harper stole home.

Seems though some Nationals fans are upset, and that Hamels should be suspended, and/or fined. Zimmermann did throw a retaliation pitch, umpire issued warnings, and nothing else happened.

When Harper and Hamels were hit, neither player showed any signs of pain or injury. Harper was hit in the lower back, Hamels lower left leg. Harper played the whole game, Hamels pitched 8 innings.

I don't think MLB is going to pursue any kind of actions, because both players
acted professionally about it.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

What are others thoughts on Cole Hamels admitting that he threw at
Bryce Harper on purpose?

Harper took the message professionally, as did Hamels when Jordan Zimmermann
plunked him.

Hamels response being "welcome to the big leagues".

Hamels did have to pay for this later in the inning, when runners on 1st and 3rd, Hamels attempted a pickoff at 1st, but Harper stole home.

Seems though some Nationals fans are upset, and that Hamels should be suspended, and/or fined. Zimmermann did throw a retaliation pitch, umpire issued warnings, and nothing else happened.

When Harper and Hamels were hit, neither player showed any signs of pain or injury. Harper was hit in the lower back, Hamels lower left leg. Harper played the whole game, Hamels pitched 8 innings.

I don't think MLB is going to pursue any kind of actions, because both players
acted professionally about it.

If Hamels admitted it, he should be suspended 6 games.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

What are others thoughts on Cole Hamels admitting that he threw at
Bryce Harper on purpose?

Harper took the message professionally, as did Hamels when Jordan Zimmermann
plunked him.

Hamels response being "welcome to the big leagues".

Hamels did have to pay for this later in the inning, when runners on 1st and 3rd, Hamels attempted a pickoff at 1st, but Harper stole home.

Seems though some Nationals fans are upset, and that Hamels should be suspended, and/or fined. Zimmermann did throw a retaliation pitch, umpire issued warnings, and nothing else happened.

When Harper and Hamels were hit, neither player showed any signs of pain or injury. Harper was hit in the lower back, Hamels lower left leg. Harper played the whole game, Hamels pitched 8 innings.

I don't think MLB is going to pursue any kind of actions, because both players
acted professionally about it.

I am always confused by these unwritten rules. If it is okay for this sort of thing to go on, put it in the rule book and let the "welcome to the big leagues" pitches fly. I just don't wanna hear any whinning when one of these pitches misses and breaks a bone or worse. Just the act not the result.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

What are others thoughts on Cole Hamels admitting that he threw at
Bryce Harper on purpose?

Harper took the message professionally, as did Hamels when Jordan Zimmermann
plunked him.

Hamels response being "welcome to the big leagues".

Hamels did have to pay for this later in the inning, when runners on 1st and 3rd, Hamels attempted a pickoff at 1st, but Harper stole home.

Seems though some Nationals fans are upset, and that Hamels should be suspended, and/or fined. Zimmermann did throw a retaliation pitch, umpire issued warnings, and nothing else happened.

When Harper and Hamels were hit, neither player showed any signs of pain or injury. Harper was hit in the lower back, Hamels lower left leg. Harper played the whole game, Hamels pitched 8 innings.

I don't think MLB is going to pursue any kind of actions, because both players
acted professionally about it.

A) I love that Harper stole home after the beaning. That was an awesome "F you."
B) From what I am seeing from local blogs/twitter, no one in recent history has admitted to it like Hamels did.
C) Zimmermann says that it was not in retaliation. Logic would seem to support that -- who beans the near automatic out instead of one of the bigger hitters?

[cuervo72]

It was with two out though, yes? Hit pitcher, deal with (recently light-hitting) Rollins with a pitcher clogging the bases.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Logic would seem to support that -- who beans the near automatic out instead of one of the bigger hitters?

The Phillies have no "bigger hitters." Logic fail.

[spleen1015]

Why did Hamels feel the need to 'welcome' him to the big leagues? It is not like the guy had already hit 2 HR off of him or anything. Harper has show to be a cocky little bastard in the past, but I don't think he's done anything recently that would make me believe he needed to get plunked.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Think about this for a second. Baseball has had trends for years that changed the climate from run-heavy to pitcher heavy. You think that hitters were the only ones using drugs? You don't look at this with a more critical thought and recognize the advent of pitching friendly ballparks having an effect? I realize the one liner is easy, but its usually not that simple.

Truth. I mean I've always been stunned that people seem to think that only hitters used PEDs.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

"B) From what I am seeing from local blogs/twitter, no one in recent history has admitted to it like Hamels did.

Jenks and Garza within the last few years.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

It was with two out though, yes? Hit pitcher, deal with (recently light-hitting) Rollins with a pitcher clogging the bases.

Not sure, I wasn't able to listen to the game last night.

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Why did Hamels feel the need to 'welcome' him to the big leagues? It is not like the guy had already hit 2 HR off of him or anything. Harper has show to be a cocky little bastard in the past, but I don't think he's done anything recently that would make me believe he needed to get plunked.

What I heard is that Hamels feels Harper is getting favorable calls or something. I don't know. Seems to me the Phillies are the ones that walked him 4 times in a 5 AB spread. They're the ones giving him the free pass.

[Scoobz0202]

Harper may be a douche but he is fun to watch. I find myself tuning into national games for him alone. His bloop double is a prime example of why he is fun. He may be a douche, but he is going at nothing but 100%

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I bet that batters on drugs have more of an impact day to to day than the occasional pitcher on drugs in baseball. I can tell you that neither Greg Maddux nor Orel Hershiser ever used performance enhancing drugs, but that even if they did, the net gain by their teams would be less than if Mark McGwire gains.

I am well aware of the the trends in baseball. But the only real change away from the hitter friendly times of the late 80's through the early 2000's has been the start of serious drug testing. Parks are not bigger, pitchers are not suddenly that much better, mounds are not higher, strike zones are not larger. Small ball has a much bigger impact, and we no longer have guys with 35 HR's at the all star break.

Lets go through the conjectures here:

- "I bet that batters on drugs have more of an impact day to to day than the occasional pitcher on drugs in baseball. I can tell you that neither Greg Maddux nor Orel Hershiser ever used performance enhancing drugs, but that even if they did, the net gain by their teams would be less than if Mark McGwire gains.

Based on what? Your gut? Are you a medical expert? Is there proof, of this or are just shooting from the hip here? As for Orel or Greg Maddux, baseball has a long history of banned supplements finding a place in the game; for the longest time, it was greenies, and so forth. This "back in my day" thing IMO is always selective vision.

am well aware of the the trends in baseball. But the only real change away from the hitter friendly times of the late 80's through the early 2000's has been the start of serious drug testing. Parks are not bigger, pitchers are not suddenly that much better, mounds are not higher, strike zones are not larger.

Are you kidding? Here are some of the parks that opened in the 90's to today - AT&T, PETCO, the Marlins stadium, the new Mets stadium - are you suggesting that these parks are hitter friendly?


I'm just picking on you here because this kind of stuff is just nothing but simple conjecture, that then gets turned into fact. There's absolutely no proof that hitters benefited more than pitchers other than "I say so."

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

What are others thoughts on Cole Hamels admitting that he threw at
Bryce Harper on purpose?

Harper took the message professionally, as did Hamels when Jordan Zimmermann
plunked him.

Hamels response being "welcome to the big leagues".

Hamels did have to pay for this later in the inning, when runners on 1st and 3rd, Hamels attempted a pickoff at 1st, but Harper stole home.

Seems though some Nationals fans are upset, and that Hamels should be suspended, and/or fined. Zimmermann did throw a retaliation pitch, umpire issued warnings, and nothing else happened.

When Harper and Hamels were hit, neither player showed any signs of pain or injury. Harper was hit in the lower back, Hamels lower left leg. Harper played the whole game, Hamels pitched 8 innings.

I don't think MLB is going to pursue any kind of actions, because both players
acted professionally about it.

Pretty douchy. You want to hit a 19 year old kid because you're "old school"? I loved Harper's response (when is the last time you saw a steal of home)? Heck, I half wonder if Hamels did this to appeal his fanbase (one of the Phillies blogs put it best - the mouthbreathers are more likely to root for him now).

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Lets go through the conjectures here:

- "I bet that batters on drugs have more of an impact day to to day than the occasional pitcher on drugs in baseball. I can tell you that neither Greg Maddux nor Orel Hershiser ever used performance enhancing drugs, but that even if they did, the net gain by their teams would be less than if Mark McGwire gains.

Based on what? Your gut? Are you a medical expert? Is there proof, of this or are just shooting from the hip here? As for Orel or Greg Maddux, baseball has a long history of banned supplements finding a place in the game; for the longest time, it was greenies, and so forth. This "back in my day" thing IMO is always selective vision.

am well aware of the the trends in baseball. But the only real change away from the hitter friendly times of the late 80's through the early 2000's has been the start of serious drug testing. Parks are not bigger, pitchers are not suddenly that much better, mounds are not higher, strike zones are not larger.

Are you kidding? Here are some of the parks that opened in the 90's to today - AT&T, PETCO, the Marlins stadium, the new Mets stadium - are you suggesting that these parks are hitter friendly?


I'm just picking on you here because this kind of stuff is just nothing but simple conjecture, that then gets turned into fact. There's absolutely no proof that hitters benefited more than pitchers other than "I say so."

No, it's in the numbers. It's in not a gut thing. To me, it's common sense. Look at the years 'roids were prevelant. Look at the years they weren't, or that they are being tested for, numbers drop dramatically all of a sudden. It's not something you can prove, unless you know everyone who was using, and, or course, we'll never know that. But, it's there.

You also, conveniently, left out all of the hitting friendly parks that have opened, that would certainly offset the one's you listed.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

No, it's in the numbers. It's in not a gut thing. To me, it's common sense. Look at the years 'roids were prevelant. Look at the years they weren't, or that they are being tested for, numbers drop dramatically all of a sudden. It's not something you can prove, unless you know everyone who was using, and, or course, we'll never know that. But, it's there.

You also, conveniently, left out all of the hitting friendly parks that have opened, that would certainly offset the one's you listed.

This is kind of the problem. I would also speculate more hitters were probably on the juice which might be the reason it appeared to help hitters more from looking at league wide stats. Really no proof of any of this other than park factors of the recently opened stadiums and proven dopers.

[molson]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This is kind of the problem. I would also speculate more hitters were probably on the juice which might be the reason it appeared to help hitters more from looking at league wide stats. Really no proof of any of this other than park factors of the recently opened stadiums and proven dopers.

It'd be pretty easy to isolate out new stadiums, just compare offense in stadiums that existed 10 years ago.

I always assumed that that PEDs helps pitchers/batters in different ways. If you're stronger, you can hit the ball further. Pitching velocity is less about brute strength and more about mechanics. (look at all the little guys who have thrown at high velocities). But, PEDs help pitchers bounce back faster physically, which might help pitchers keep their spot in the rotation or bullpen longer, rather than purely enhance their performance. (Second paragraph is just opinion/impression people, don't go nuts on me.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

I can't for the life of me understand any logic behind why Hamels wouldn't be suspended. However refreshing his candor might be, that was also one of the most shockingly stupid things I've heard come out of an athlete's mouth in quite a while.

Maybe there's some parsing of the rulebook or the CBA that means he can't be suspended since he wasn't tossed at the time ... but dang that just seems like an incredibly stupid thing to say out loud.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by molson

It'd be pretty easy to isolate out new stadiums, just compare offense in stadiums that existed 10 years ago.

I always assumed that that PEDs helps pitchers/batters in different ways. If you're stronger, you can hit the ball further. Pitching velocity is less about brute strength and more about mechanics. (look at all the little guys who have thrown at high velocities). But, PEDs help pitchers bounce back faster physically, which might help pitchers keep their spot in the rotation or bullpen longer, rather than purely enhance their performance. (Second paragraph is just opinion/impression people, don't go nuts on me.)

I think this is all said very well esp. the helping pitchers/batters in different ways points.

[jbergey22]

Sox ink ex-Cub Mark Prior to minors deal - Boston Red Sox Blog - ESPN Boston

Speaking of steroids. Red Sox sign a pitcher that fell off of a cliff faster than anyone I can remember.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Sox ink ex-Cub Mark Prior to minors deal - Boston Red Sox Blog - ESPN Boston

Speaking of steroids. Red Sox sign a pitcher that fell off of a cliff faster than anyone I can remember.

/yawn

Are they still playing?

Wake me up when they're not an embarassment to the laundry.

[stevew]

Eh, people throwing at each other is dumb, but I don't see why they would suspend him. Last year or the year before, the Brewers hit Karstens in like August for some shit that happened in May and nobody got suspended that I recall.

[stevew]

Okay, found it. Karstens hit the reigning NL MVPed on April 27, 2009. Then got hit in July when he was batting during a relief appearance.

All part of the (dumb) game.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by stevew

Okay, found it. Karstens hit the reigning NL MVPed on April 27, 2009. Then got hit in July when he was batting during a relief appearance.

All part of the (dumb) game.

I agree the beanball business is a dumb game, but Karstens throwing at Braun was the first idiotic shot in that beanball war.

[Suicane75]

There was nothing wrong with what Cole did or what Zimmerman did. Message received, message answered. The problem is when dudes start acting like dickweeds and charging the mound and all that stupid shit.

Fun game going on Cleveland right now as both offenses are teeing off. 8-4 Tribe through 4 innings.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Sox ink ex-Cub Mark Prior to minors deal - Boston Red Sox Blog - ESPN Boston

Speaking of steroids. Red Sox sign a pitcher that fell off of a cliff faster than anyone I can remember.

While Prior may have been juicing, his falling off the map had to do with his terrible mechanics leading to major arm injuries. Maybe he juiced and maybe that contributed to it in a way (generally speaking, the harder you throw, the more stress you put on your joints), but his mechanics were the primary cause of his injuries IMO.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

There was nothing wrong with what Cole did or what Zimmerman did. Message received, message answered. The problem is when dudes start acting like dickweeds and charging the mound and all that stupid shit.

No, the problem is that pitchers don't always have great control. What happens when you try to throw at a guy, and instead of hitting his butt or legs, you hit him in the face?

Throwing at someone intentionally is stupid macho BS and not at all worth the risk that the target could be seriously hurt.

[lungs]

Now Alex Gonzalez has a torn ACL and out for the year. Hard to think the Brewers can contend with Cesar Izturis and Travis Ishikawa getting significant playing time. Aramis Ramirez must not like the idea of playing first base as it just seems ass backwards to have him playing third and giving Taylor Green a shot at first.

So who wants Zack Greinke at the deadline?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

While Prior may have been juicing, his falling off the map had to do with his terrible mechanics leading to major arm injuries. Maybe he juiced and maybe that contributed to it in a way (generally speaking, the harder you throw, the more stress you put on your joints), but his mechanics were the primary cause of his injuries IMO.

He was certainly the posterboy for what appeared to be great mechanics at one time. Tom House, a former pitching coach, said he had the best mechanics he had ever seen coming out of college. His throwing motion has been a major study.

Of course House was a huge teacher of the Inverted W throwing motion which others have contrubuted to his failures.

[Logan]

Hamels gets 5 games. I thought the standard was six so you can't play around with the rotation to prevent missing a start, which apparently the Phillies will be able to pull off.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

No, the problem is that pitchers don't always have great control. What happens when you try to throw at a guy, and instead of hitting his butt or legs, you hit him in the face?

Invalid argument. If your control is so bad your margin of error is 2-3 feet, then even when you're trying to throw a high strike you might hit a guy in the face.

[stevew]

I guess I hate that 5 games for Hamels costs him around 450K. Whereas Joe Schmoe MinSalary loses about 14k for the same type of offense. Seems like the death penalty.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Hamels gets 5 games. I thought the standard was six so you can't play around with the rotation to prevent missing a start, which apparently the Phillies will be able to pull off.

That looks like the punishment that goes something like this:

"You're suspended because we need to look like we don't condone this type of behavior, however you won't miss a start and you left us no choice by opening your big mouth and admitting it."

So not a big deal and he can be free to throw at whoever he chooses as long as he doesn't talk about it afterward.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by stevew

I guess I hate that 5 games for Hamels costs him around 450K. Whereas Joe Schmoe MinSalary loses about 14k for the same type of offense. Seems like the death penalty.

Does that 450K come off the teams payroll?

[henry296]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Does that 450K come off the teams payroll?

Not sure about MLB, but in other sports that money ends up going to charity.

[Lathum]

Valdespine!

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

You also, conveniently, left out all of the hitting friendly parks that have opened, that would certainly offset the one's you listed.

Isn't that point? The hitter friendly parks opened during the 90s, early 00s. Almost all the parks that have opened in the last 4-5 years appear to be more pitcher focused (in addition to ones already named, Comerica also comes to mind before they moved the fences in) with the exceptions of Cincy's Great American Ballpark and the new Yankees Stadium.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Isn't that point? The hitter friendly parks opened during the 90s, early 00s. Almost all the parks that have opened in the last 4-5 years appear to be more pitcher focused (in addition to ones already named, Comerica also comes to mind before they moved the fences in) with the exceptions of Cincy's Great American Ballpark and the new Yankees Stadium.

Sure, leaving out the hitting friendly ones makes his point. But it's not an objective look. Then you are only looking at the pitching friendly ones. He mentioned parks in the 90's and 00's. Not just the 00's.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by stevew

I guess I hate that 5 games for Hamels costs him around 450K. Whereas Joe Schmoe MinSalary loses about 14k for the same type of offense. Seems like the death penalty.

I saw an interesting tweet yesterday that Hamels will lose more than twice as much money for this as James Harrison has lost in all of his combined fines during his entire career. Keep on bitching, NFL players. Life is so unfair!

[Logan]

It's not often that you can literally quantify the price of stupidity. Congrats Cole!