Could Bill Clinton become Vice-President?

WVUFAN · 05-09-2013, 06:49 PM

I know there's a term limit for Presidents via the 22nd Amendment, but it clearly states that you cannot be "elected" President for a third term. If Hilary ran for President in 2016, could she put Bill on the ticket as VP?

JonInMiddleGA · 05-09-2013, 06:51 PM

Untested, and a point on which constitutional scholars disagree. Would likely be a matter for SCOTUS.

M GO BLUE!!! · 05-09-2013, 06:54 PM

No. To qualify to be VP you have to meet the qualifications of being president. Since he was elected and served two terms he does not qualify for the VP slot.

The real question would be if he ran for the House, could he be Speaker?

WVUFAN · 05-09-2013, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

No. To qualify to be VP you have to meet the qualifications of being president. Since he was elected and served two terms he does not qualify for the VP slot.

The real question would be if he ran for the House, could he be Speaker?

He would meet the qualifications. The 22nd Amendment only states you can't be elected President more than 2 terms. He wouldn't have been if he was elected VP and then ascended to President if something would happen to Hilary.

He wouldn't be able to serve in any position in the succession order, by that logic.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-09-2013, 06:59 PM

Thanks to MGB and WVUFan for illustrating why this one won't be settled without the courts

molson · 05-09-2013, 06:59 PM

They'd have to be residents of different states, but I suppose that could be easily fudged/set-up ahead of time.

Being president again is a tougher constitutional call, the 22nd amendment only expressly prevents Clinton from being "elected" again, but the SCOTUS could interpret that however they want, perhaps consistently with whatever outcome they'd like to see.

cartman · 05-09-2013, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

No. To qualify to be VP you have to meet the qualifications of being president. Since he was elected and served two terms he does not qualify for the VP slot.

The real question would be if he ran for the House, could he be Speaker?

That's where a bit of the grey area comes in. The 22nd Amendment doesn't change the qualifications of being eligible to be president, it only disallows someone being elected three times. Nothing in the 22nd Amendment references or states that it changes the text of Article II of the Constitution. The 22nd Amendment also makes no mention of the office of the Vice President.

Matthean · 05-09-2013, 07:01 PM

I think we are missing on the part where Hilary actually becomes President.

cartman · 05-09-2013, 07:02 PM

Dola, this article from way back covers quite a few of the bases, including speaker or pro tempore in the Senate.

Vice President Bill Clinton? Take 3 - Slate Magazine

JonInMiddleGA · 05-09-2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

They'd have to be residents of different states, but I suppose that could be easily fudged/set-up ahead of time.

Yeah, that's not really a stumbling block. You just declare your residence to be elsewhere (in his case I guess he'd reclaim AR instead of NY).

M GO BLUE!!! · 05-09-2013, 07:06 PM

I know they have some sort of secret list on the order of ascension, should there be some major catastrophe such as global thermal nuclear war.

I just wonder at what point Carrot Top becomes Commander In Chief. And who is after him.

molson · 05-09-2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthean

I think we are missing on the part where Hilary actually becomes President.

If that one feels too unrealistic to you, you could amend the hypothetical to analyze a Newt Gingrich/George W. Bush 2016 ticket instead.

cartman · 05-09-2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeah, that's not really a stumbling block. You just declare your residence to be elsewhere (in his case I guess he'd reclaim AR instead of NY).

That's what Cheney did. He had been living in Texas for quite a while, but moved his residency to Wyoming to run with GWB.

M GO BLUE!!! · 05-09-2013, 07:12 PM

I did not know that the prez & vp need to be from different states. That seems rather stupid.

JPhillips · 05-09-2013, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I did not know that the prez & vp need to be from different states. That seems rather stupid.

When there were only 13 states splitting up the executive seemed important.

cartman · 05-09-2013, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I did not know that the prez & vp need to be from different states. That seems rather stupid.

It is from back when there were only 13 states, to prevent the electors from a big state stacking the deck for their 'favorite sons'. Before the 12th Amendment, each elector got two votes. Whoever got the most electoral votes was president, the 2nd most vice president. With the 12th amendment, there were separate votes for president and vice president. They left the same-state rule in place.

clarification, the nominees still had to get a majority of the electoral votes, otherwise the House decided who would win.

kcchief19 · 05-09-2013, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I know they have some sort of secret list on the order of ascension, should there be some major catastrophe such as global thermal nuclear war.

I just wonder at what point Carrot Top becomes Commander In Chief. And who is after him.

It's not very super secret:
Presidential Succession Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is no law that extends the line of succession past the cabinet. That's why the entire cabinet is not allowed to be in the same place as the president and vice president. I believe The West Wing portrayed it accurately that the cabinet member missing the State of the Union watches from the White House just in case.

dawgfan · 05-09-2013, 07:29 PM

The more interesting question to me is if having Bill on the ticket would help or hurt her. I tend to suspect it would help, but perhaps that's too much Clinton even for fans.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-09-2013, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchief19

There is no law that extends the line of succession past the cabinet.

Well, there is Directive 51 and the National Continuity Coordinator contingency.

albionmoonlight · 05-09-2013, 08:24 PM

Random trivia. The Constitution says that the House shall choose its Speaker. It does not say that the Speaker needs to be a member of the House. Historically, the Speaker has always been a member, but that it not required.

Bill Clinton could be chosen Speaker tomorrow if the House decided to do it.

Autumn · 05-09-2013, 10:28 PM

I would think the court would allow something like that. We know it is fine in the opposite order--assuming the presidency due to death of the president doesn't preclude someone from subsequently running for office twice. so it makes sense that if someone has already run twice, it wouldn't preclude them from taking a job in the line of succession.

Kodos · 05-09-2013, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The more interesting question to me is if having Bill on the ticket would help or hurt her. I tend to suspect it would help, but perhaps that's too much Clinton even for fans.

Impossible!

kcchief19 · 05-09-2013, 10:36 PM

That's always intrigued me too. It's almost too great of a risk to tarnish the legacy. It's been throw out there in the past when the Dems had the House of having Clinton be Speaker.

About the only way I think it could ever happen is under a Hillary presidency. Vice President is too do-nothing for Bill. Speaker would be a meaty role, and it wouldn't be insulting to Hillary. Imagine if Bill were Speaker during an Obama presidency.

SackAttack · 05-09-2013, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autumn

I would think the court would allow something like that. We know it is fine in the opposite order--assuming the presidency due to death of the president doesn't preclude someone from subsequently running for office twice. so it makes sense that if someone has already run twice, it wouldn't preclude them from taking a job in the line of succession.

IIRC, that's not entirely true. If you assume the presidency due to death or resignation, your eligibility to run for two additional terms depends on how much of the inherited term you serve, I believe. Less than 50% of the term and you can run for two of your own. More than 50%, and you're only eligible to be elected to one additional term.

Young Drachma · 05-09-2013, 10:38 PM

It simply will not happen, folks. Nothing to see here. Eligible? I'm sure the courts would say yes and just say he gets passed over in the line of succession should he ever ascend to it. But like Jon illustrated earlier in the chat, there's just no definitive way to solve this. With the current cast of Supremes, you can be sure they'd block it on political grounds. In a different world, hard to say. But again, just no way they'd do anything so polarizing.

JonInMiddleGA · 05-09-2013, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

IIRC, that's not entirely true. If you assume the presidency due to death or resignation, your eligibility to run for two additional terms depends on how much of the inherited term you serve, I believe. Less than 50% of the term and you can run for two of your own. More than 50%, and you're only eligible to be elected to one additional term.

This.

M GO BLUE!!! · 05-10-2013, 12:04 AM

I don't think Bill would be needed on the ticket. He would still be around, and I believe would be an even larger asset in an unofficial role. He could do things the VP could never do and wouldn't have to explain anything. VP would only hold Bill back.

Jon · 05-10-2013, 12:12 AM

I think Bill could run for Vice-President and he could become President by succession. I think he'd be a lame duck, though, as he couldn't run for another term.

If he didn't meet the requirements, they would just skip over him (which is what they would've had to do if it got to Madelaine Albright in the 90s).

dawgfan · 05-10-2013, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I don't think Bill would be needed on the ticket. He would still be around, and I believe would be an even larger asset in an unofficial role. He could do things the VP could never do and wouldn't have to explain anything. VP would only hold Bill back.

Besides, if Hillary had him on the ticket, she'd have to be concerned about him trying to off her if she won so he could be President again.

M GO BLUE!!! · 05-10-2013, 01:42 AM

All this talk about Bill for VP... What about Obama?

mckerney · 05-10-2013, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

All this talk about Bill for VP... What about Obama?

Hey, some of us are hoping for another term for Diamond Joe in 2016.

mckerney · 05-10-2013, 01:57 AM

mckerney · 05-10-2013, 01:59 AM

sterlingice · 06-17-2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

When there were only 13 states splitting up the executive seemed important.

Fortunately, not an issue any more as anyone wealthy enough to run for President maintains multiple residencies.

Lisa: "Actually, this /is/ one of the nine states where Mr. Bush claims residency, Dad. I wouldn't have voted for him, but it's nice to have a celebrity in the neighborhood."

SI

Desnudo · 06-17-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

I know they have some sort of secret list on the order of ascension, should there be some major catastrophe such as global thermal nuclear war.

I just wonder at what point Carrot Top becomes Commander In Chief. And who is after him.

Before Tom Cruise, after Polly Shore

05-09-2013, 06:51 PM	#2
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Untested, and a point on which constitutional scholars disagree. Would likely be a matter for SCOTUS. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-09-2013, 06:59 PM	#5
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Thanks to MGB and WVUFan for illustrating why this one won't be settled without the courts __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

05-09-2013, 07:01 PM	#8
Matthean Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Aug 2008	I think we are missing on the part where Hilary actually becomes President. __________________ Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table.

05-09-2013, 07:02 PM	#9
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Dola, this article from way back covers quite a few of the bases, including speaker or pro tempore in the Senate. Vice President Bill Clinton? Take 3 - Slate Magazine __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

05-09-2013, 10:38 PM	#25
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	It simply will not happen, folks. Nothing to see here. Eligible? I'm sure the courts would say yes and just say he gets passed over in the line of succession should he ever ascend to it. But like Jon illustrated earlier in the chat, there's just no definitive way to solve this. With the current cast of Supremes, you can be sure they'd block it on political grounds. In a different world, hard to say. But again, just no way they'd do anything so polarizing. __________________ Current dynasty: OOTP25 Blitz: RTS meets Moneyball \| OOTP Mod: GM Excel Competitive Balance Tax/Revenue Sharing Calc \| FBCB Mods on Github

05-09-2013, 06:54 PM	#3
M GO BLUE!!! Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005	No. To qualify to be VP you have to meet the qualifications of being president. Since he was elected and served two terms he does not qualify for the VP slot. The real question would be if he ran for the House, could he be Speaker?

05-09-2013, 06:59 PM	#6
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	They'd have to be residents of different states, but I suppose that could be easily fudged/set-up ahead of time. Being president again is a tougher constitutional call, the 22nd amendment only expressly prevents Clinton from being "elected" again, but the SCOTUS could interpret that however they want, perhaps consistently with whatever outcome they'd like to see.

05-09-2013, 07:06 PM	#11
M GO BLUE!!! Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005	I know they have some sort of secret list on the order of ascension, should there be some major catastrophe such as global thermal nuclear war. I just wonder at what point Carrot Top becomes Commander In Chief. And who is after him.

05-09-2013, 07:12 PM	#14
M GO BLUE!!! Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005	I did not know that the prez & vp need to be from different states. That seems rather stupid.

05-09-2013, 07:29 PM	#18
dawgfan Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Seattle	The more interesting question to me is if having Bill on the ticket would help or hurt her. I tend to suspect it would help, but perhaps that's too much Clinton even for fans.

05-09-2013, 08:24 PM	#20
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Random trivia. The Constitution says that the House shall choose its Speaker. It does not say that the Speaker needs to be a member of the House. Historically, the Speaker has always been a member, but that it not required. Bill Clinton could be chosen Speaker tomorrow if the House decided to do it.

05-09-2013, 10:28 PM	#21
Autumn Head Coach Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bath, ME	I would think the court would allow something like that. We know it is fine in the opposite order--assuming the presidency due to death of the president doesn't preclude someone from subsequently running for office twice. so it makes sense that if someone has already run twice, it wouldn't preclude them from taking a job in the line of succession.

05-09-2013, 10:36 PM	#23
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	That's always intrigued me too. It's almost too great of a risk to tarnish the legacy. It's been throw out there in the past when the Dems had the House of having Clinton be Speaker. About the only way I think it could ever happen is under a Hillary presidency. Vice President is too do-nothing for Bill. Speaker would be a meaty role, and it wouldn't be insulting to Hillary. Imagine if Bill were Speaker during an Obama presidency.

05-10-2013, 12:04 AM	#27
M GO BLUE!!! Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005	I don't think Bill would be needed on the ticket. He would still be around, and I believe would be an even larger asset in an unofficial role. He could do things the VP could never do and wouldn't have to explain anything. VP would only hold Bill back.

05-10-2013, 12:12 AM	#28
Jon High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000	I think Bill could run for Vice-President and he could become President by succession. I think he'd be a lame duck, though, as he couldn't run for another term. If he didn't meet the requirements, they would just skip over him (which is what they would've had to do if it got to Madelaine Albright in the 90s). Last edited by Jon : 05-10-2013 at 12:13 AM.

05-10-2013, 01:42 AM	#30
M GO BLUE!!! Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2005	All this talk about Bill for VP... What about Obama?

05-10-2013, 01:57 AM	#32
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000

05-10-2013, 01:59 AM	#33
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000

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