10-08-2013, 12:16 AM | #2351 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
I dunno how hard I can 2nd guess that one. Carpenter had an 8th inning ERA of 1.57 (and not a small sample size for the year either) coming in. On the other hand, you play 4 games & it's do-or-die time ... and your best pitcher ends up working only once in the entire series
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10-08-2013, 09:45 AM | #2352 | |
Hall Of Famer
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I have no idea why Matheny didn't pitch Miller in game 2. |
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10-08-2013, 09:48 AM | #2353 | |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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Quote:
To be honest, it's sort of like a cross between a large office building and an airport concourse. There's a hotel, a few high end restaurants, a food court with a bunch of lower end places, some shops, and offices. On of the ground floor there is a large show room that has an example of every GM (Chevy, Cadillac, GMC) car and truck. You can get them, look around and the like. It's fun to walk through. There is a restaurant at the top that does have a nice view. If you're in Detroit, it's worth stopping by.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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10-08-2013, 10:23 AM | #2354 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Prairie du Sac, WI
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Shedding some sarcastic tears for the Braves this morning.
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10-08-2013, 11:44 AM | #2355 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NYC
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Report: Braves Players Boycotted Chipper Jones's First Pitch
I'm really enjoying this whole "the entire internet hates the Braves" thing. |
10-08-2013, 07:35 PM | #2356 | |
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McCann seems like a crotchety sort of guy so I'm assuming he lead the charge here. |
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10-08-2013, 10:18 PM | #2357 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Here's to hoping the Red Sox can win and knock those stupid cowbells out of the playoffs.
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10-08-2013, 11:34 PM | #2358 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
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With the bosox winning, at least one good thing happened in sports this week.
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10-09-2013, 12:40 AM | #2359 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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Quote:
Additional bonus from my perspective - game-tying run came from pinch hitting Xander Bogaerts for Stephen Drew against a lefty. Maybe Farrell is learning! PS - I may regret saying this soon, but I'm also really excited to get away from TBS. Between their terrible camerawork, lack of replays, and their announcers saying multiple nonsensical things every game that make me question if they actually researched either team ("With Victorino and Ellsbury it's like the Red Sox have 3 centerfielders out there" (if we just ignore the LF) "All 3 Red Sox outfielders have great arms" (Ellsbury can't throw to 2nd base without one-hopping it) "After that walk, Xander Bogaerts is a threat to steal" (17 SB, 16 CS in 4 minor league seasons)) it can't happen fast enough. Last edited by BishopMVP : 10-09-2013 at 01:11 AM. |
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10-09-2013, 03:56 PM | #2360 | |
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Couldn't have happened to a more deserving bunch . Acting like "we enforce the unwritten rules" douches tends to get you well deserved hate. And its delicious.
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10-09-2013, 05:36 PM | #2361 | |
Coordinator
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Quote:
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10-09-2013, 05:49 PM | #2362 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Pacific
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If Wainwright makes it through the 1st couple innings, the Cards win.
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10-09-2013, 06:19 PM | #2363 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Correction: 8 relievers that the streaking Red Sox could only get 3 runs off of. It was a great strategy (considering we only really have 3 quality starting pitchers) that if we scored ourselves, would've set up a Game #5 with David Price. Which was what all that was about. Last edited by Dutch : 10-09-2013 at 06:19 PM. |
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10-09-2013, 09:28 PM | #2364 |
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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That's ok, TBS. You can admit that they missed a call. It would have just been a runner at 1st with 2 outs so it's not a huge turning point. But it was the wrong call.
SI
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10-09-2013, 09:30 PM | #2365 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Name - ERA (full season) - (post-ASB) David Price - 3.33 - 2.87 Alex Cobb - 2.76 - 2.41 Matt Moore - 3.29 - 2.93 Chris Archer - 3.22 - 3.39 Roberto Hernandez - 4.89 - 4.85 Jeremy Hellickson - 5.17 - 6.23 And it would've been interesting to see what happened if that game went to extras and TB eventually won - he had Price warming up for the 10th because there were no more relievers left (partly because he'd had 4 of them pitch less than an inning, including 2 pitches total to one batter by Archer). Sometimes you have to trust players to come through to get to those stars - Craig Breslow wouldn't be my first pick to face the heart of the Rays order, but he struck out the #3-6 hitters in a row. |
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10-09-2013, 10:01 PM | #2366 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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Quote:
What I saw looked damn close.. either way. Matt Adams is a BEAST! Congrats to Waino on the complete game! |
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10-09-2013, 10:08 PM | #2367 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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The read on Hellickson was that he was well rested, has more stuff than Archer, but was vulnerable to giving up explosive innings.
The read on Archer was that he didn't have enough variety in his pitches to survive a 2nd round through the Red Sox lineup. So if Hellickson was "on" then he would have saved us a lot of time and trouble, but he's been getting rocked lately...hence the short-leash. So what does Hellickson do? Solid 1st inning, inconsistent 2nd inning...just like we have seen a few times recently. No outs, bases loaded? Gotta get him out of there. |
10-09-2013, 10:09 PM | #2368 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
BTW - This is NOT an example of moneyball analysis. |
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10-09-2013, 11:13 PM | #2369 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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If you want to use advanced stats instead, Archer had a lower FIP and xFIP over the whole season, and a FIP 1.24 below/xFIP 1.42 below Hellickson in the 2nd half. Hellickson did have the slightly better numbers vs. Boston this year (18.1 IP/7 ER vs. 8.2 IP/5 ER), although Archer's 2 starts vs. Boston were among his first 4 in the big leagues, and that seems a real bad idea to focus on those combined 5 starts over Hellickson's last 10 - where he got through 6 innings once, and given up less than 3 runs once - vs. Archer's last 10, where he got through 6 5 times, and gave up less than 3 runs 7 times. Saying Hellickson was "well-rested" isn't worth anything either, because the decision to start Hellickson and put Archer in the bullpen was made before the series started. Qualifying things by saying "if Hellickson was on" is also silly, because he hasn't been for even a single start since like June.
The Rays do a lot of good "moneyball" things, like signing cheap reclamation project relievers/1st basemen at the GM level, or embracing defensive shifts at the managerial level, but there are times when Maddon over-thinks things and tries to get too cute imo, and this was one of them. From our side, Felix Doubront and Ryan Dempster had the lowest ERA's vs. TB this year, but there was never any question we were going to start our 4 best pitchers. Last edited by BishopMVP : 10-09-2013 at 11:16 PM. |
10-10-2013, 11:31 AM | #2370 | |
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Quote:
Maddon took the lessons he learned from Scioscia (ever the tinkerer) and amped them up to an even higher level.
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10-10-2013, 12:30 PM | #2371 | |
Pro Rookie
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Aren't you focusing on the results instead of the process? |
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10-10-2013, 06:56 PM | #2372 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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Quote:
In a vacuum, I'd rather have Koji pitching to those hitters. In that situation though, it made more sense to leave Breslow in and hope he could succeed. Breslow (who's probably our 3rd best healthy reliever) came in bottom 6th w/2 outs down 1-0, struck out a lefty, and then we scored 2 in the Top 7 to take the lead. At that point (Up 2-1 going to the bottom 7th, Longoria+ coming up), Farrell could've thrown Koji in, or mixed and matched 3 different relievers, but instead he trusted Breslow, and we had our 2 best relievers lined up for the 8th and 9th, with 4-5 more fresh guys in the bullpen if the game went to extras. There's a continuum between managing for the long term and maximizing immediate results. Francona/Farrell lean a little too much for my tastes toward the long-term (mostly when it comes to their deference to veterans), but Maddon seems to be the poster child for swinging too far the other way (i.e. he'll burn multiple pitchers or sacrifice outs doing things like bunting so the Rays will be up by 1 after the inning they're in, instead of focusing on how best to win the whole game or series.) He's quirky, and he does a lot of things, so the media likes to give him credit when the Rays win, but I think Friedman is the one who deserves most of the credit, and it's not a huge coincidence that Maddon's lost 4 straight playoff series. |
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10-10-2013, 08:06 PM | #2373 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
If you want to pick apart Maddon's strategy more effectively, I'd suggest you shy away from quoting me to prove your points. Bottom line though, I have a lot of faith in what Maddon does because he varies his strategy so much and succeeds more often than not. Which was 92 times in the regular season, and then the elimination of the Texas Rangers (91-72), the Cleveland Indians (92-70) from playoff contention (both on the road by the way) and then only in the Red Sox 3-1 ALDS elimination did the Rays finally falter. And the game where you are picking Maddon apart was lost 3-1 and the true failure was the Rays offense rather than the pitching....and had the Rays offense managed 4 or 5 runs, then Game #5 would've seen a "well rested" David Price. The one thing that could've easily put the Rays over the top in the entire series. But we'll never know....but not because of Joe Maddon. Last edited by Dutch : 10-10-2013 at 09:28 PM. |
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10-10-2013, 09:17 PM | #2374 |
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Verlander has it going on, no hitter through 6 in Oakland.
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10-10-2013, 10:29 PM | #2375 |
Hockey Boy
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
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TIGERS!!!!
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
10-10-2013, 10:56 PM | #2376 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Scoreless in 15 innings pitched.
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10-10-2013, 11:54 PM | #2377 | |
Coordinator
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Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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Quote:
Unless I'm mistaken, TB was the only team that had 4 starters with at least 20 starts and ERA's under 3.50, and they had 5 relievers with 60+ innings and ERA's between 3.09 and 4.14 (with a 6th - Alex Torres being marginally better at 1.79). I'm of the belief that any "old-school" manager could've let his starters pitch until they were getting tired, then thrown in any of the 6 relievers for one inning each at a time and won about 92 games. I don't think Maddon's a bad manager, but I also don't think he's any better than Bob Melvin, Terry Francona, John Farrell or Jim Leyland, and he gets the genius label from much of the media just because he does more things than the other 4 (and has a personality). Most of those things do work out, but it's not because of some smart plan, it's because he's replacing one solid pitcher with another solid pitcher. Then, when the manager makes 6 moves and the team wins, he gets the credit, while if a manager leaves one non-star player in (say, Breslow in Game 4) and he gets the job done, the credit goes to the player. (I would say let's see how he does next year without Price, but knowing Friedman's track record I expect him to convince the Twins to trade him Buxton and Sano or the D'Backs to trade Skaggs and Bradley for him. ) |
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10-11-2013, 02:14 AM | #2378 |
Pro Starter
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10-11-2013, 09:04 AM | #2379 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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Bring it on LA!
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10-11-2013, 03:15 PM | #2381 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
True, if Maddon had a $175M annual team payroll (instead of $60M), we'd probably never know just how clever he is. It's amazing what an additional $115M can buy your baseball team. (EDIT: haha...*drops the mic* ) Last edited by Dutch : 10-12-2013 at 08:06 AM. |
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10-11-2013, 11:20 PM | #2382 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Whittier
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F this ump and his strike zone
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10-12-2013, 12:26 AM | #2383 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Carlos Beltran is a golden god. What a great, great player.
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10-12-2013, 10:39 AM | #2384 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Carlos Beltran doubling in a run off of Zack Greinke in the playoffs, neither for the Royals. Sigh. SI
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10-12-2013, 08:04 PM | #2385 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Troy, Mo
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Wacha has become quite the pitcher.
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10-12-2013, 08:52 PM | #2386 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Not complaining as a Sox fan but that was shitty base running there by the Tigers with a pitch getting by the catcher and the runner on third not advancing and then next batter he is forced at home.
Last edited by Galaril : 10-12-2013 at 08:52 PM. |
10-12-2013, 10:05 PM | #2387 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Become? What are the Cardinals going to do next season? We have 7 legit starters. Waino, Kelly, Wacha, Lynn, Garcia, Miller, Rosenthal, Martinez. And Carpenter? I hope we deal for a SS.
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10-12-2013, 10:29 PM | #2388 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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I think the Sox should complain a bit more, they haven't enough yet tonight.
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10-12-2013, 10:39 PM | #2389 | |
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Location: Rahway, NJ
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I don't doubt that you watch a lot of games, but I also think you're probably either utilizing very small samples to determine what you think about Maddon and also buying into what the media thinks about Maddon. He actually does not bunt that often and also very often talks about not giving up an out. There are many, many times that sometimes I think he should be bunting and doesn't. I also think that you have to consider his strategy probably doesn't change much going from regular season to postseason and they've won 90+ games the last 5 of 6 seasons with a payroll around $60m, give or take a few each year. |
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10-13-2013, 09:03 PM | #2390 | |
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Well.. they rested him a ton this season, so we really didn't get to see him in consecutive starting roles. I like Waino - Wacha - Kelly - Martinez - Miller myself. Rosey has to be the closer and move Motte for a SS if possible. |
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10-13-2013, 10:11 PM | #2391 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Better not be his girlfriend.
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Board games: Bringing people back to the original social network, the table. Last edited by Matthean : 10-13-2013 at 10:11 PM. |
10-13-2013, 10:24 PM | #2392 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2008
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*sigh*
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10-13-2013, 10:29 PM | #2393 |
Pro Rookie
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Max should have never left the game
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10-13-2013, 10:41 PM | #2394 |
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A) You have not eat that ball and not throw it.
B) How does Prince Fielder fail to use his gigantic self to block that ball?
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10-13-2013, 10:44 PM | #2395 |
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The bottom of ninth has been like a collection of ways to give a game away.
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10-13-2013, 10:49 PM | #2396 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Chicago
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And Erin Andrews a casualty of the Gatorade treatment during post-game interview.
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10-13-2013, 10:50 PM | #2397 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I know the Tigers got the split and are nicely set up in term of starters but that felt like the series being lost right there.
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10-13-2013, 11:09 PM | #2398 |
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10-14-2013, 12:00 AM | #2399 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The State of Insanity
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Give that woman a signed ball, and smack around the idiot who stole the ball from her.
And then we get to the little kid waving to Prince after the close play at the edge of the crowd.. the Reverse Bartman?
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Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com Last edited by SirFozzie : 10-14-2013 at 12:06 AM. |
10-14-2013, 12:45 AM | #2400 |
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And more reasons to smack the idiot.. apparently he's a racist idiot.
Angry Red Sox fan thrown out for HR ball toss also allegedly ranted racist remarks in stands - Yahoo Sports
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