Couple of wifi/internet questions

panerd · 06-25-2014, 04:55 PM

So we are rearranging our house for new ones on the way and had to convert the office into their bedroom. This moved office/modem/router into the basement. There always used to be a couple of dead spots in the basement and so now obviously they are upstairs. (In particular our bedroom where wifi is used a lot on my wife's IPad) So instead of investing in a new router I thought about a wifi extender that I saw on Newegg for only like $30. Our house isn't big (about 1000 sq ft) so I didn't think a new router was necessary. (And the money could be better spent on diapers

)

1) Do these work?

2) I've noticed the connection going dead more frequently during the day but I am also home during the day in the summer so I was trying to figure out if it is because of daytime cable or if it's because the wire going to the new office hasn't been used in like 8 years. Would that effect internet connectivity or would it just work or not work?

3) Would a new router effect the speed at all or just range?

gstelmack · 06-25-2014, 05:49 PM

For 2), any number of things can cause you to slowly lose signal, and start hitting thresholds more often. Splitters and amps can go bad more easily than a cable, but the cable itself can go as well. Call your provider when the outage is out, depending on who it is they can check signal quality from the office or other issues and determine if a tech needs to roll.

For 3), new router can affect speed and range both.

cartman · 06-25-2014, 05:50 PM

Here's my take:

1) Well, the thing with WiFi extenders is that you lose a minimum of 50% of the bandwidth right off of the bat. Since optimal efficiency is never reached, you are looking at 60-70% lost. If you are comfortable with running a cable through the walls, it would be better to get a longer ethernet cable and pick up an access point instead of an extender.

2) If it is intermittent, then there is a good chance it is because of other things competing for bandwidth. But, if the cable hasn't been used, there is also a chance of there maybe being corrosion or something like that in the cable that might affect how well it runs. If you can get into the admin part of the router, you should be able to get the S/N number or some other thing to tell you the strength of the signal the cable modem is getting.

3) Maybe both, depending on how old your current router is. Newer dual band ones can give both a stronger signal and higher throughput.

Another thing to consider is if your current router has a removable antenna. If so, there are higher gain directional antennas out there that might solve your problem.

panerd · 06-25-2014, 08:20 PM

Thanks guys for the responses and Cartman's answer to #1 got me thinking and so I unplugged a DIRECTV receiver and switched some cords around and now I have taken my speed up by a factor of about 10. So it obviously was the wire in the basement room. Which brings me to a new dilemma...

I can put the modem and router in the iving room lentertainment center practically unnoticed so the house's WiFi is now back in order. (I didn't think the wife would go for me having the modem/router next to the babies' changing table

) So the way I look at it I have two choices for the PC to get internet in the basement office...

1) Install a wireless adapter into my desktop. Looks to be about the same cost as the wireless extender.

2) Try and use the wireless extender I talked about earlier. It looks like it has an Ethernet connection that I could plug into my desktop. That would also serve the purpose of strengthening my signal on that side of the house in the lower level. Cartman: I take it the 50-70% dropoff would not effect my current router signal right? Just the new one? Would the Ethernet from the extender have any punch at all?

3) Is there an easier solution? I can't run an Ethernet cord to this room as there are a lot of obstacles like heating ducts, drywall, furnace to get around. We wired this room before finishing the basement.

cartman · 06-25-2014, 08:54 PM

If I'm understanding correctly, you are wanting to connect the PC via wireless, and also run a wireless extender off of the ethernet port of the PC. If that is the case, you still will run into the dropoff.

Think of it this way:
The case of a wireless device talking straight to the router, is like a conversation between two people. When you use a WiFi extender, the extender would be like a third person in between the two people. The two people no longer communicate directly with each other, everything has to go through the person in the middle. That is where the 50% reduction comes in. Now image there are other sounds besides the people talking. That is where the other 10-20% loss comes in.

When you have an ethernet cable connecting two devices, that is like two people talking in a quiet room.

Plus, you'd always have to have the PC on to be able to access the wireless extender if it is running through your PC.

There are devices that run ethernet over electrical wiring. Here's an example: TP-LINK TL-PA2010KIT AV 200Mbps Nano Powerline Adapter Starter Kit - Newegg.com I can't vouch for them, but for a lot of people they seem to work really well.

cthomer5000 · 06-25-2014, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

3) Is there an easier solution? I can't run an Ethernet cord to this room as there are a lot of obstacles like heating ducts, drywall, furnace to get around. We wired this room before finishing the basement.

Powerline adapters? I know of there existence, but have never used one personally.

Ethernet cable from router into adapter. Adapter plugs into electrical outlet. Plug second adapter into room you want internet in, run ethernet cable between adapter and your device.

Tested: Wi-Fi Antenna Boosters and Powerline Adapters - Tested

Amazon.com: TP-LINK TL-PA4010KIT AV500 Nano Powerline Adapter Starter Kit, up to 500Mbps: Computers & Accessories

panerd · 06-25-2014, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

If I'm understanding correctly, you are wanting to connect the PC via wireless, and also run a wireless extender off of the ethernet port of the PC. If that is the case, you still will run into the dropoff.

Think of it this way:
The case of a wireless device talking straight to the router, is like a conversation between two people. When you use a WiFi extender, the extender would be like a third person in between the two people. The two people no longer communicate directly with each other, everything has to go through the person in the middle. That is where the 50% reduction comes in. Now image there are other sounds besides the people talking. That is where the other 10-20% loss comes in.

When you have an ethernet cable connecting two devices, that is like two people talking in a quiet room.

Plus, you'd always have to have the PC on to be able to access the wireless extender if it is running through your PC.

There are devices that run ethernet over electrical wiring. Here's an example: TP-LINK TL-PA2010KIT AV 200Mbps Nano Powerline Adapter Starter Kit - Newegg.com I can't vouch for them, but for a lot of people they seem to work really well.

Hmmm... I am clearly not technically up to date or savvy but this might be exactly what I am looking for. So I can just plug one of these into the wall outlet in the same room as the modem/router and then plug the other into the basement office and they will act as if there is an Ethernet connection? That's fantastic. I see the one you linked is around $30. Is it just wires? Meaning there isn't a $100 one that does a better job.

Even though I likely won't do the extender because of the solution you provided I figure I would clarify. The extender just plugs into the wall and has an Ethernet out so I was going to use the extender and then plug the PC into it. So it would be a three person conversation like you described but no other interference. And I would assume I could turn the PC on and off at any time.

panerd · 06-25-2014, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Powerline adapters? I know of there existence, but have never used one personally.

Ethernet cable from router into adapter. Adapter plugs into electrical outlet. Plug second adapter into room you want internet in, run ethernet cable between adapter and your device.

Tested: Wi-Fi Antenna Boosters and Powerline Adapters - Tested

Amazon.com: TP-LINK TL-PA4010KIT AV500 Nano Powerline Adapter Starter Kit, up to 500Mbps: Computers & Accessories

Yes I think I am going to try this. If it works it looks like I can actually move the adapter around at will and could power a roku in my bedroom when the PC is not in use.

06-25-2014, 05:49 PM	#2
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	For 2), any number of things can cause you to slowly lose signal, and start hitting thresholds more often. Splitters and amps can go bad more easily than a cable, but the cable itself can go as well. Call your provider when the outage is out, depending on who it is they can check signal quality from the office or other issues and determine if a tech needs to roll. For 3), new router can affect speed and range both. __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities Last edited by gstelmack : 06-25-2014 at 05:49 PM.

06-25-2014, 05:50 PM	#3
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Here's my take: 1) Well, the thing with WiFi extenders is that you lose a minimum of 50% of the bandwidth right off of the bat. Since optimal efficiency is never reached, you are looking at 60-70% lost. If you are comfortable with running a cable through the walls, it would be better to get a longer ethernet cable and pick up an access point instead of an extender. 2) If it is intermittent, then there is a good chance it is because of other things competing for bandwidth. But, if the cable hasn't been used, there is also a chance of there maybe being corrosion or something like that in the cable that might affect how well it runs. If you can get into the admin part of the router, you should be able to get the S/N number or some other thing to tell you the strength of the signal the cable modem is getting. 3) Maybe both, depending on how old your current router is. Newer dual band ones can give both a stronger signal and higher throughput. Another thing to consider is if your current router has a removable antenna. If so, there are higher gain directional antennas out there that might solve your problem. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

06-25-2014, 08:54 PM	#5
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	If I'm understanding correctly, you are wanting to connect the PC via wireless, and also run a wireless extender off of the ethernet port of the PC. If that is the case, you still will run into the dropoff. Think of it this way: The case of a wireless device talking straight to the router, is like a conversation between two people. When you use a WiFi extender, the extender would be like a third person in between the two people. The two people no longer communicate directly with each other, everything has to go through the person in the middle. That is where the 50% reduction comes in. Now image there are other sounds besides the people talking. That is where the other 10-20% loss comes in. When you have an ethernet cable connecting two devices, that is like two people talking in a quiet room. Plus, you'd always have to have the PC on to be able to access the wireless extender if it is running through your PC. There are devices that run ethernet over electrical wiring. Here's an example: TP-LINK TL-PA2010KIT AV 200Mbps Nano Powerline Adapter Starter Kit - Newegg.com I can't vouch for them, but for a lot of people they seem to work really well. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

06-25-2014, 08:20 PM	#4
panerd Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: St. Louis	Thanks guys for the responses and Cartman's answer to #1 got me thinking and so I unplugged a DIRECTV receiver and switched some cords around and now I have taken my speed up by a factor of about 10. So it obviously was the wire in the basement room. Which brings me to a new dilemma... I can put the modem and router in the iving room lentertainment center practically unnoticed so the house's WiFi is now back in order. (I didn't think the wife would go for me having the modem/router next to the babies' changing table ) So the way I look at it I have two choices for the PC to get internet in the basement office... 1) Install a wireless adapter into my desktop. Looks to be about the same cost as the wireless extender. 2) Try and use the wireless extender I talked about earlier. It looks like it has an Ethernet connection that I could plug into my desktop. That would also serve the purpose of strengthening my signal on that side of the house in the lower level. Cartman: I take it the 50-70% dropoff would not effect my current router signal right? Just the new one? Would the Ethernet from the extender have any punch at all? 3) Is there an easier solution? I can't run an Ethernet cord to this room as there are a lot of obstacles like heating ducts, drywall, furnace to get around. We wired this room before finishing the basement.

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