2015 NFL Wild Card Weekend

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Aren't most college football games substantially longer than NFL games now? I always plan for a college game to go three and a half or four hours. Where NFL games run about 3:15.

Late November college games avg 3:23, NFl is about 3:07

But ...

The NFL scoring average is 22.7 points. In the Bowl Subdivision it's 29.4, the same as last year and just under the record of 29.5 in 2012.

The game clock stops for three to four minutes every time there's a touchdown. That's how long it takes to kick the extra point and for the clock to start running again on the kick return or next play from scrimmage if there is no runback.

College football games are getting longer; are they too long? | OregonLive.com

[Brian Swartz]

If you lead a game for 52 minutes and completely collapse because of a bad call (no arguing the officials blew it) then you probably didn't belong in the playoffs to begin with.

Nonsense. Nobody here that I've read is saying they collapsed because of the call(that was well under way, but certainly would have been mitigated/less likely to be completed). That has absolutely nothing to do with who 'belongs in the playoffs'. That's determined in the regular season of course.

I.e., Arizona. Their struggles due to having no QB had nothing to do with them 'belonging there'. They earned the spot.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Letting the governor determine, by executive order, what the governor is allowed to receive in the way of gifts seems problematic.

The state of New Jersey seems okay with that, though, so...?

The problem with what Christie did by drawing all that attention to himself with that Kool-aid man group hug is that it gets people to dig and bring up things, like this. I'm guessing nothing shadier than normal actually took place, but it opens you up to needing to defend yourself.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/christie...ner-1420517744

The Cowboys, along with the New York Yankees and Checketts Partners Investment Fund, are owners of Legends Hospitality, the operator of a soon-to-be-opened observatory of the 104-story One World Trade Center—operated by the Port Authority, which Mr. Christie jointly controls with New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo . Financial terms of the deal haven’t been publicly disclosed.

A Port Authority spokeswoman said Legends was selected following a competitive public procurement process. The observation deck is expected to generate $875 million in revenue over 15 years for the Port Authority through a combination of base rent and shared net income, the authority spokeswoman said.

Randy Levine, president of the Yankees and a board member of Legends, said the bidding process was fair and didn’t involve political or personal favors, and that Messrs. Christie and Cuomo weren’t involved.

“To try and tie one to the other is silly,” he said. Mr. Levine said New York officials at Legends were the primary officials on the bid and that Mr. Jones wasn’t involved, even though his family is a “significant” business owner in the company. He declined to say what percentage.

Mr. Christie’s acceptance of a gift from a business owner with ties to the Port Authority comes amid calls for reform at an agency rocked by the George Washington Bridge scandal and other problems in the past year. Messrs. Christie and Cuomo recently vetoed a legislative overhaul of the authority and instead pushed forward with a set of changes written by a panel that they appointed.

The authority is currently wrestling with how to revise its conflict-of-interest standards for its board of commissioners.

Given the authority’s recent problems, Jameson Doig, an emeritus Princeton University Professor who wrote a book about the Port Authority, said Mr. Christie’s relationship and receiving of gifts from Mr. Jones “sends the wrong signal if Christie or any of his top aides appear to have a conflict of interest in their relationship to the Port Authority.”

“The governor ought to do all he can to avoid that conflict of interest or the appearance of a conflict,” said Mr. Doig, a member of a panel on overhauling the agency’s ethics rules and structure.

[Logan]

And here's more of what I'm talking about as the language used is changing:

Chris Christie “Personally Pushed” for Jerry Jones to Receive Government Contract | The Big Lead

My guess is he travels to Green Bay on his own dime.

[Logan]

NFL Admits Officials Missed Another Crucial Cowboys Penalty

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Logan

NFL Admits Officials Missed Another Crucial Cowboys Penalty

It's just piling on now.

[JeeberD]

Don't they make admissions like that just about every week?

[Warhammer]

Can't you call holding on any play in the NFL? That was not an egregious hold in my book.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Can't you call holding on any play in the NFL? That was not an egregious hold in my book.

I haven't watched the video, so I am going off of only the description. But it sounds like if it weren't for the hold, Romo would have been sacked by Suh (and turning the ball over on downs).

While holding can be called on any play, it seems like this one could have directly changed this entire play.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I haven't watched the video, so I am going off of only the description. But it sounds like if it weren't for the hold, Romo would have been sacked by Suh (and turning the ball over on downs).

While holding can be called on any play, it seems like this one could have directly changed this entire play.

He would have been and the hold was pretty egregious. Even Obama, who is in Detroit, chimed in that he'd be aggravated if he was a Lions' fan. I appreciate his sympathies and the NFL's apologies, but... it's over. I want this wound to heal, but people keep picking at it. Enough's enough already.

[JeeberD]

Where's the outrage?!?!?!1?

Report: NFL tells Dallas Cowboys they missed 7 penalty calls against Detroit Lions | MLive.com

[molson]

I didn't watch the game, but did the Lions players and coaches make any mistakes? Have they apologized?

[Arles]

refs miss some calls each game - just like a QB misses a few throws or an OL misses a few blocks. The difference is rarely do they make the correct call, announce it, then decide to undo the correct call without looking at any video evidence. The process is what caused the outrage, not the fact that a ref missed a call in a key moment. The refs also missed an obvious hold on Suh during the key 4th and 6 pass to Witten (something the league also admitted this week), but there hasn't been much outcry on that call (which arguably had more of an impact than the pass interference). Now, had they thrown the flag on the Dallas OL, announced the hold, then picked the flag up - you would have seen more outrage.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Arles

The difference is rarely do they make the correct call, announce it, then decide to undo the correct call without looking at any video evidence. The process is what caused the outrage, not the fact that a ref missed a call in a key moment. The refs also missed an obvious hold on Suh during the key 4th and 6 pass to Witten (something the league also admitted this week), but there hasn't been much outcry on that call (which arguably had more of an impact than the pass interference). Now, had they thrown the flag on the Dallas OL, announced the hold, then picked the flag up - you would have seen more outrage.

I've seen them pick up flags - it's tough to nail down the frequency, but definitely happens many times over the course of a season.

I see lots of "obvious" holds missed (thank god they don't call ALL of them). But did any Lions players miss any obvious passes, or tackles, or catches, or kicks, or coaching decisions? Hell, Suh made an "obvious" error of sportsmanship the week before and shouldn't have even been in this game. The players and coaches are making a hell of a lot more money than the refs, if bad calls are inexcusable, surely player mistakes are too.

I honestly thought that the ref whining would tone down some after people saw the alternative with the replacement refs a few years back. So if the NFL refs suck, the replacement refs suck, and as any college football thread here will tell you - the college refs suck too - where are the acceptably good refs? Where are these refs that won't make mistakes and ruin the integrity of the game?

[Logan]

Again, picked up flags happen all the time. Flags thrown, discussed, announced to the stadium and the audience, only to be picked up I've never seen happen before.

You frequently hear announcements that explain why a flag was picked up. "The pass was ruled uncatchable and therefore there is no flag for pass interference".

I didn't see the play live and hadn't even seen a replay yet (was looking at my phone) but my reaction was still "what the hell just happened?!" when there was no penalty enforced because I had heard the announcement a minute earlier.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Logan

Again, picked up flags happen all the time. Flags thrown, discussed, announced to the stadium and the audience, only to be picked up I've never seen happen before.

I had this happen twice in games I did this year. In one instance, the BJ threw an OPI ran into the Referee to tell him the call, the referee gives the preliminary signal, then I realized what the BJ called. I had to go to the BJ and tell him we don't have OPI cause the pass never crossed the LOS. So the R has to get back on the mic and explain.

Second time, my partner called targeting, the referee announces it and ejects the person. But my parenter got the number wrong, which is a big deal because it brings an ejection. I had to ask my partner if he got the # right and he had the deer in headlights look. So we just went with a personal foul. So the R had to get back on the mic and explain.

The long and short of it...I bet this happens quite more than people realize, it's just the magnitude of the game makes it appear as if they don't know what is going on.

[molson]

From what I've been reading, the league encourages the refs to express disagreement, consult, and to not hesitate to pick up a flag. (Basically the opposite of how MLB umps did things for decades). It makes sense that that process will be a little slower and clunkier with refs who aren't used to working with each other. So the one ref jumped the gun. That was a mistake, but pursuant to the league's policy, the refs should not have responded to that mistake by saying, "well, he said it, we're stuck with that now". They're still encouraged to express disagreement and consult and change the call if that's the new consensus. They obviously believed, at the end of the day, it was not a penalty. It would have been easier to just bury that belief and keep the game moving, since the announcement was already made. But with that mindset, you have mistakes compounding mistakes.

I actually wouldn't mind if there was a rule that said that once a call is made and announced, that's it, because it makes a better and more entertaining viewing experience. But I'm in the extreme minority of not giving a shit about bad calls - they're just part of the game to me - no more offensive to me than a dropped pass. But the league has instructed the refs differently. And I think that's what most people want, to have these delays to try to get calls right. But those delays and consultations don't guarantee that everyone will always agree with the result, and they don't even guarantee that the refs will always get the call right. So you'll occasionally have situations like this.

[Arles]

I think it's just the manner it went down. I can't remember an instance all season where the flag was thrown, the ref announced the Penalty on the PA system, started to move the chains for a first down and then reversed it without any kind of explanation. Add in the fact that it was done on a nationally televised Wild card game and I can understand why people were outraged.

I'm all for discussing a flag - I've seen a bunch of flags thrown, discussed and then picked up. But I haven't seen the penalty announced on the PA, the chains moved and then the flag picked up without any kind of PA explanation. Atleast Morelli should have gotten back on the PA and said something along the lines of "After a discussion with the team, we've decided that the amount of contact made by the defender didn't constitute pass interference". Then, people would have gotten some kind of explanation. The way it went down live was almost like they forget they called a penalty.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think it's just the manner it went down. I can't remember an instance all season where the flag was thrown, the ref announced the Penalty on the PA system, started to move the chains for a first down and then reversed it without any kind of explanation. Add in the fact that it was done on a nationally televised Wild card game and I can understand why people were outraged.

I'm all for discussing a flag - I've seen a bunch of flags thrown, discussed and then picked up. But I haven't seen the penalty announced on the PA, the chains moved and then the flag picked up without any kind of PA explanation. Atleast Morelli should have gotten back on the PA and said something along the lines of "After a discussion with the team, we've decided that the amount of contact made by the defender didn't constitute pass interference". Then, people would have gotten some kind of explanation. The way it went down live was almost like they forget they called a penalty.

People wanted to be outraged regardless. How many posts are in this thread saying it's unbelievable that Dez Bryant wasn't flagged on the play for unsportsmanlike conduct? Like anything he did there was egregious enough to warrant a call in the 4th quarter of a playoff game. (Normally I hate the idea that things are called differently in important situations, but that's the exact type of call that should depend on situation. He does that in the first quarter of an early season game, sure toss a flag to prevent further escalation later, but unless he actually delays the game or runs up to an official players should be allowed to show some emotion and reaction in the 4th quarter of a playoff game.)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

People wanted to be outraged regardless. How many posts are in this thread saying it's unbelievable that Dez Bryant wasn't flagged on the play for unsportsmanlike conduct? Like anything he did there was egregious enough to warrant a call in the 4th quarter of a playoff game.

Apparently nothing any Dallas Cowboy did - pass interfere, hold, walk out onto the field to argue a call with the referees, etc. - was was egregious enough to warrant a call in the 4th quarter of a playoff game.

That's kinda the problem!

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

People wanted to be outraged regardless. How many posts are in this thread saying it's unbelievable that Dez Bryant wasn't flagged on the play for unsportsmanlike conduct? Like anything he did there was egregious enough to warrant a call in the 4th quarter of a playoff game.

Yeah, violating the rules and committing a flaggable offense isn't egregious enough .

[Scoobz0202]

What would the flag have been for Dez Bryant. How do they usually call a non-player on the field without a helmet.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

What would the flag have been for Dez Bryant. How do they usually call a non-player on the field without a helmet.

The focus on the helmetlessness of it seems strange to me. Either a player coming off the bench and onto the field to protest a call in that situation is a penalty or it is not. I do not see how whether his helmet was on or off matters.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Yeah, violating the rules and committing a flaggable offense isn't egregious enough .

You really want that called then? Should the NBA/NCAA start calling techs every time a coach is on the court? No, as long as it doesn't delay or affect the game we gives refs some leeway there for common sense to prevail. (I also wonder how the response would be different if it was a Jason Witten or Calvin Johnson reacting like that instead of a lightning rod like Dez Bryant.)

[cartman]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The focus on the helmetlessness of it seems strange to me. Either a player coming off the bench and onto the field to protest a call in that situation is a penalty or it is not. I do not see how whether his helmet was on or off matters.

People were misinterpreting the rule about the helmet. It is only a penalty if someone involved in the play removes their helmet. It doesn't apply to anyone on the sidelines.

[NobodyHere]

Yes, I think penalties should be called. If they're stupid penalties then get rid of the rule. I don't watch basketball that much but I don't remember coaches storming the court all that often. I thought they just threw chairs.

(I grew up an Indiana fan...)

[Logan]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

You really want that called then? Should the NBA/NCAA start calling techs every time a coach is on the court? No, as long as it doesn't delay or affect the game we gives refs some leeway there for common sense to prevail. (I also wonder how the response would be different if it was a Jason Witten or Calvin Johnson reacting like that instead of a lightning rod like Dez Bryant.)

Yeah, sure. He deserved to have to face his teammates and apologize for doing something so stupid that cost his team the game.

Do you remember the Oregon player who got flagged for taunting which nullified a 4th down stop as the game was ending, and they went on to lose minutes later? That very easily could have prevented his team from playing in the championship game a few days from now.

[larrymcg421]

Hasn't it been established earlier in the thread that the Dez Bryant situation is a judgment call and not an automatic flag?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

Yeah, sure. He deserved to have to face his teammates and apologize for doing something so stupid that cost his team the game.

Do you remember the Oregon player who got flagged for taunting which nullified a 4th down stop as the game was ending, and they went on to lose minutes later? That very easily could have prevented his team from playing in the championship game a few days from now.

Remember it? I was posting in the week 6 thread about what a bad call it was (which was slightly made up for by an earlier, more egregious, call against Arizona)!

I've been watching (and coaching) sports for awhile now, and I tend to like it when players show emotion after a big call or score. As long as the players don't delay any on-field action or touch/threaten/impede an official, a good official will tell them to back up before throwing a flag/T'ing them up. That's my standard - as long as it has no effect on a play or gets in the way of the officials doing their job no way I want any game, but especially a playoff game decided on a technicality instead of on the field.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Hasn't it been established earlier in the thread that the Dez Bryant situation is a judgment call and not an automatic flag?

I think this is one of the biggest problems facing the NFL's on-the-field product. Too many things are judgement calls. Too many times, officials are left to their own discretion on whether or not to flag someone for a penalty.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I think this is one of the biggest problems facing the NFL's on-the-field product. Too many things are judgement calls. Too many times, officials are left to their own discretion on whether or not to flag someone for a penalty.

That's the way I look at it too. A lack of institutional standards regarding the application of rules which either aren't clearly defined, or are purposely called differently on the field than how they are defined in the rule book. Those lack of standards lead to a collective level of incompetence, and an individual's bias* is able to fill the void left by that incompetence.

*In this case I don't necessarily mean a team rooting bias. A tendency for one ref to call a 'cleaner' game than another, or an individual ref's opinion about the talent/ethics of a particular player/coach can contribute to bias, and effect his calls (or lack thereof) on the field. Tightening up the rules, and having the refs held to some sort of tightly defined standard could greatly reduce a ref's personal bias.

[RedKingGold]

God, were still arguing about this?!

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

God, were still arguing about this?!

Is there something better we should be arguing about?

[Senator]

We play the Packers.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Hasn't it been established earlier in the thread that the Dez Bryant situation is a judgment call and not an automatic flag?

I haven't seen a list of times where it's been called, and maybe Sak can weigh in, but my guess is the judgment is in place so every single time a player runs onto the field it isn't called...times when it could be completely innocent and accidental like thinking a pass was picked off or other instances of possession changing. A player who has come onto the field to argue a penalty seems like exactly when it should be called. What other sort of situations would arise where they'd need to call that, which wouldn't fall under another penalty?

[Julio Riddols]

Lets talk about Tom Brady being a machine.

[Kodos]

Let's talk about discount doublechecks!

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Logan

And here's more of what I'm talking about as the language used is changing:

Chris Christie “Personally Pushed” for Jerry Jones to Receive Government Contract | The Big Lead

My guess is he travels to Green Bay on his own dime.

As expected...

Darren Rovell ‏@darrenrovell 32m32 minutes ago
This Just In: NJ Governor & Cowboys fan Chris Christie WILL be in Green Bay on Sunday. Will pay for travel & tickets.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

God, were still arguing about this?!

We can talk about Jim Harbaugh if you'd prefer?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

We can talk about Jim Harbaugh if you'd prefer?

Lol.

Poor U-M fans. Recuced to that.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Lol.

Poor U-M fans. Recuced to that.

We had a long reign of dominance from, like, when football was invented until 2005.

Don't worry. When historians look back on the last 8-10 years it'll be nothing more than a blip on the radar. An odd curiosity.

That said, enjoy it while it lasts, Sparty!

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Logan

As expected...

Darren Rovell ‏@darrenrovell 32m32 minutes ago
This Just In: NJ Governor & Cowboys fan Chris Christie WILL be in Green Bay on Sunday. Will pay for travel & tickets.

I love that, on some very tenuous level, there's a link between whether Iran will get a nuclear bomb in the next ten years and whether some guy gets comped Packers tickets this weekend.