The Interview (movie)

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by molson

The issue here is whether the government lied and framed /enemy of the state/, falsely accusing them of being involved in this situation to further some end. That's some heavy shit.

Well, there's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Well, there's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful. And so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people. And neither do we.

[Edward64]

I lean more towards the inside job than NK having the sophistication to hack into Sony.

FBI briefed on alternate Sony hack theory - Tal Kopan - POLITICO

FBI agents investigating the Sony Pictures hack were briefed Monday by a security firm that says its research points to laid-off Sony staff, not North Korea, as the perpetrator — another example of the continuing whodunit blame game around the devastating attack.

Even the unprecedented decision to release details of an ongoing FBI investigation and President Barack Obama publicly blaming the hermit authoritarian regime hasn’t quieted a chorus of well-qualified skeptics who say the evidence just doesn’t add up.

Researchers from the cyber intelligence company Norse have said their own investigation into the data on the Sony attack doesn’t point to North Korea at all and instead indicates some combination of a disgruntled employee and hackers for piracy groups is at fault.

The FBI says it is standing by its conclusions, but the security community says they’ve been open and receptive to help from the private sector throughout the Sony investigation.

Norse, one of the world’s leading cyber intelligence firms, has been researching the hack since it was made public just before Thanksgiving.

Norse’s senior vice president of market development said that just the quickness of the FBI’s conclusion that North Korea was responsible was a red flag.

[flounder]

So we shut down North Korea's internet and they may not have been involved. If it turns out they weren't, on a scale of 1 to 14 with 1 being not at all stupid and 14 being Lenny Dykstra doing calculus, how stupid does that make us look?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I lean more towards the inside job than NK having the sophistication to hack into Sony.

Why does it have to be one or the other? I know that makes the better news story/blog conspiracy topic if it's a who-done-it, but multiple entities can and have hacked Sony. If I'm an insider with an axe to grind, the best time to damage Sony is in the context of a North Korea hack.

North Korea has the sophistication to hack Sony. Part of how the FBI traced the initial hack to Sony is that it was based off of malware Bureau 121 actually created and has used successfully, and IP addresses known to be utilized by Bureau 121.

I've seen this scenario thrown out:

"-DPRK hacked Sony over The Interview
-Media broke the story as DPRK did it
-Insiders/people who have previously hacked Sony (happened a lot the past few years) took advantage of the story, and dropped information publically
-Media broke the story as DPRK did it
-3rd party tried to exploit Sony for monitary gains
-Media broke the story as DPRK did it
-3rd party threatened theatres for whatever reason
-Media broke the story as DPRK did it

Now, instead of admitting they falsely reported multiple stories with zero evidence to back up their stories, they find it easier to say "THE FBI LIED TO US! WE DIDN'T KNOW!"

I just get annoyed by unsupported conspiracy theories. It's a pet peeve. Just something about the psychology of the whole thing. The things that pass for "smoking guns" when you just decide everything is a conspiracy. Maybe it's just everyone that's always telling me about conspiracies at the state and local government level, and I always feel left out that I've never been invited to a single conspiracy meeting. And this one doesn't even to have a motive. Did we really need more dirt on North Korea? What are we going to use it for?

[flounder]

This doesn't require some massive conspiracy though. All it would take is someone saying "North Korea probably did it" and everyone else saying "Yeah, let's run with that." It's not some big lie; it's just being too lazy to find the real truth if they can just fall back on a politically convenient story.

The concern is that this administration (and, to be fair, previous administrations) has a loose association with the truth, and they feel they can shovel any BS they want out there and we'll buy into the narrative they're selling. Maybe they did do all the investigative work, and they are really convinced that it was at least partially the work of North Korea. But would anyone really be shocked if they didn't?

[molson]

Originally Posted by flounder

This doesn't require some massive conspiracy though. All it would take is someone saying "North Korea probably did it" and everyone else saying "Yeah, let's run with that." It's not some big lie; it's just being too lazy to find the real truth if they can just fall back on a politically convenient story.

Then they lied in their statement about doing the multi-agency investigation, and technical analysis that was summarized. Still a pretty major accusation.

Edit: I think part of the conspiracy mentality is the reddit age where we think we can get to the bottom of anything ourselves. And it's super-fun and empowering to feel like we can all figure out a whole conspiracy just using our own laptop. And if you want to find a conspiracy, you will, every single time. That's why I'm cynical about them. That's the nature of that mindset. It allows you to make up things like North Korea isn't capable of hacking anyone, when they have carried many out successful hacks (or maybe that's just a conspiracy too). It limits your ability to see the whole forest, and new truths are invented and just become gospel truth. (only one entity can hack any other entity at a time.)

[flounder]

It doesn't require a lie. Just presenting the facts in a way that supports the point you're trying to make, and making sure that you don't acquire any facts that may argue against it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by flounder

It doesn't require a lie. Just presenting the facts in a way that supports the point you're trying to make, and making sure that you don't acquire any facts that may argue against it.

Wouldn't that be a lie? If I'm a prosecutor and I have strong evidence that the guy didn't do it, and I cover it up and/or ignore it, or intentionally avoid any evidence to the contrary, and then conclusively say that that the guy did it, I'd say that's a lie. This North Korea thing would be that it except on a multi-agency scale at the top of the government, endorsed by the president. It's not impossible, governments have done stuff like this (though usually they do it for some purpose, or on a smaller scale.) But not every single time. That's why I'm cynical. Because we'll hear this no matter what, and anything that happens will just be used to support those theories. Our enemies should take more advantage of this.

[flounder]

You don't have to ignore it if you never collect it. To continue your prosecutor metaphor, how many times have we seen people convicted and it comes out later that there was exonerating evidence that the police never looked for? When it happens, the story is always the same, "we have the perpetrator." Confirmation bias happens all the time. People have a preferred narrative, and they stick to it regardless of the evidence. My point is that it doesn't require some massive effort; it's just human nature.

I think it's likely that North Korea was involved. If they weren't, then it's only because they don't have the capability. They certainly have the desire. If it comes out that they weren't though, we're going to suffer a massive loss of credibility. We're so heavily invested in NK being behind it, I think we even suffer if it comes out they were only partially involved. I hope I'm wrong, and the evidence is iron-clad. It's just that no matter how low my expectations sink, our politicians manage to fail to meet them.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by molson

The issue here is whether the government lied and framed North Korea, falsely accusing them of being involved in this situation to further some end. That's some heavy shit.

Well, you know the Smith-Mundt Act was repealed with the 2013 NDAA, right?

[Toddzilla]

There isn't much proof there, for sure, but there is also thankfully a lack of know-it-all jackasses regurgitating what some government entity said and claming that as proof, so there's that

[Toddzilla]

...and if you can't recognize "The FBI said North Korea did it!" as the be-all and end-all of "unsupported conspiracy theories" then I don't know what to tell you.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

There isn't much proof there, for sure, but there is also thankfully a lack of know-it-all jackasses regurgitating what some government entity said and claming that as proof, so there's that

You've just regurgitated blogs which DON'T EVEN CONTRADICT THE government's version, and claimed THAT as proof for a conspiracy not just involving the FBI, but the entire federal government and the president, so there's that. (I know conspiracy theorists like to use "FBI" as a buzz word because it brings to mind that agency's legit shady and secretive history, but this is a multi-agency investigation signed off on by the president, culminating in a public accusation against a country...again, heavy shit.) Edit: And hey, maybe in 5-10 years people are talking about what to try Obama and Co. for crimes regarding all this. To me it's just a crazy thing to just assume or affirmatively conclude based on blog speculation.

[stevew]

The Interview is on Netflix starting this weekend.

Supposedly did 40M in digital sales and 6M theatrically. DVD out in February

[stevew]

Watched it on Netflix. I thought it was pretty entertaining, probably like 2.5/4 stars or so.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by stevew

Watched it on Netflix. I thought it was pretty entertaining, probably like 2.5/4 stars or so.

I agree. I enjoyed it. Pretty funny. And it has action.

I can see why the pulled it when North Korea got their panties in a bunch. The movie isnt so awesome you would die for it.