2014-15 NFL Offseason Thread (Non Draft Edition)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

so rivers gets over 20M a year, and the most guaranteed of any player in the NFL? would he get than in FA? I mean... hes 33 and not all that great.

We can debate exactly where he fits between #6-#16, but he's clearly a top-half QB you can win a super bowl with, and those are worth $20m. Somewhere near that level with Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger, a tier above the Andy Dalton's of the world.

It also depends how they structured the contract... If the $60m guarantee is mostly signing bonus, they're dumb, but if it's yearly roster bonuses that protects them against age-related decline and injury it's almost certainly smart. Remember how shocking Kaepernick's contract was until the structure came out?

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

We can debate exactly where he fits between #6-#16, but he's clearly a top-half QB you can win a super bowl with, and those are worth $20m. Somewhere near that level with Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger, a tier above the Andy Dalton's of the world.

It also depends how they structured the contract... If the $60m guarantee is mostly signing bonus, they're dumb, but if it's yearly roster bonuses that protects them against age-related decline and injury it's almost certainly smart. Remember how shocking Kaepernick's contract was until the structure came out?

very true. I would gladly trade him for Dalton... QB numbers are just insane

[JAG]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

very true. I would gladly trade him for Dalton... QB numbers are just insane

Wait until we see what Luck's contract will be for. He can practically ask for whatever he wants, maybe a fully guaranteed contract. What choice does Indy have? Imagine what he'd make as a free agent.

[EagleFan]

Okay, based on what I saw today...

Tebow is still not an NFL quarterback.
Sanchez was awful.
Barkley looked pretty good.

(so basically my hope for a good season depends on Bradford staying healthy)

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

(so basically my hope for a good season depends on Bradford staying healthy)

Good luck with that.

I hope he does.. I'd like to see him play a full season.

[Solecismic]

The case for Bradford also requires, in addition to health, the notion that the Rams misused him. His statistics are not on par with what you'd expect for a veteran expected to start games.

Yet he's obviously impressive enough in workouts that he commands starter money.

Rivers is the opposite. The only thing he hasn't done well is win in the playoffs. How much of that is random and how much of that is Rivers?

My looks into what happens when teams with very different regular-season records meet in the playoffs makes me think more is random than most people would like to believe. The difference between great and nearly-great is very small in the NFL.

[muns]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Good luck with that.

I hope he does.. I'd like to see him play a full season.

I hear people are writing the pope and asking him to bless Bradfords kness on his visit to Philly. So they have that going for them.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by muns

I hear people are writing the pope and asking him to bless Bradfords kness on his visit to Philly. So they have that going for them.

[EagleFan]

I've been hearing good things about Bradford out of camp. Hopefully it means he will work in Kelly's system if he stays healthy. The key things that I keep hearing are that he delivers quickly and accurately, important for this system.

Tebow was a joke. He had some good looking throws very early on but in reality that was because the primary receiver was open and he threw it. Once his primary was covered he sucked at looking through his progression and would pull the ball down. Hopefully the Tebow sheep will shut up (in reality I hoped to be proven wrong and that he would work out but I saw nothing today to say that he is anything but what I expected).

I also saw really depressing results from Sanchez. He needed his receivers to be 15 feet tall to hit them. He was missing everyone.

Hopefully Barkley continues to improve and can become a valid backup. He made good reads and quick decisions and delivered a few nice balls today.

[JonInMiddleGA]

re: Tebow, from Chip Kelly

Eagles coach Chip Kelly pointed out that some of the problems Tebow experienced were a result of playing with third-team offensive linemen and wide receivers.

"You have to look at who's in with who," Kelly said. "A different set of receivers was in when Tim was in, and a different line at times. A couple of those, you're wondering, 'why is he doing that?' Well, the receiver ran the wrong route. There were a couple of busts out there."

[Solecismic]

Let's not forget that the defensive players who repeatedly sacked him weren't the undrafted roster filler we were led to believe. Okine alone accounts for 5.5 career sacks in the arena leagues.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Let's not forget that the defensive players who repeatedly sacked him weren't the undrafted roster filler we were led to believe. Okine alone accounts for 5.5 career sacks in the arena leagues.

Good one.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I've been hearing good things about Bradford out of camp. Hopefully it means he will work in Kelly's system if he stays healthy. The key things that I keep hearing are that he delivers quickly and accurately, important for this system.

Tebow was a joke. He had some good looking throws very early on but in reality that was because the primary receiver was open and he threw it. Once his primary was covered he sucked at looking through his progression and would pull the ball down. Hopefully the Tebow sheep will shut up (in reality I hoped to be proven wrong and that he would work out but I saw nothing today to say that he is anything but what I expected).

I also saw really depressing results from Sanchez. He needed his receivers to be 15 feet tall to hit them. He was missing everyone.

Hopefully Barkley continues to improve and can become a valid backup. He made good reads and quick decisions and delivered a few nice balls today.

Sanchez was a master QB out there by making everyone think he was missing his throws on accident. But he showed everyone on that TD pass by making Toler think that he was going to overthrow that WR but really it was just to get Toler out of position.

[EagleFan]

Looking at Sanchez again I am less depressed overall. The throws were bad, maybe he was too pumped up for the season? Maybe he had Tebowmania?

He seemed to be making the right reads and getting the ball out quickly. The throws can be corrected... I hope.

[cuervo72]

He's still Latino Rex. Which means he'll throw too many INT. Very much eager to see Bradford.

[JeeberD]

I'm eager to see how the Eagles handle it when both of the OU boys go down with their regularly scheduled injury...

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I'm eager to see how the Eagles handle it when both of the OU boys go down with their regularly scheduled injury...

I would presume they would go with Sanchez and Matthews.

[Easy Mac]

Kelvin Benjamin carted off today

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Kelvin Benjamin carted off today

sucks so hard. Looking at the video, it looks bad. No contact, and he grabs his knee immediately.

Whoever manages to invent some sort of knee brace that will prevent ligament tears will instantly become one of the most important people in the history of football.

[Radii]

Benjamin is done for the year.

[Dutch]

That blows. On the bright side, the Bucs could win the division at 8-8.

[NobodyHere]

I wonder if the Panthers will be giving Reggie Wayne a call.

[Thomkal]

Ex-NFL QB Erik Kramer Wounded in Apparent Suicide Attempt - NBC News

[BillJasper]

Is the Bills/Browns the best ESPN can do for a national pre-season broadcast?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Is the Bills/Browns the best ESPN can do for a national pre-season broadcast?

Johnny FUCKIN' Football!!

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Johnny FUCKIN' Football!!

I'd rather watch Arena football.

[NobodyHere]

The Lions are making RG3 look absolutely incompetent.

[NobodyHere]

And now Griffin is injured.

[Eaglesfan27]

Best QB in football.

[thesloppy]

That sequence was laughable. Griffin dropped the ball and then fell down on top of it before he was even touched, then a dude kinda nudged him, he lost the ball, spent 10 minutes on the ground and came away with brain damage. He was getting hit every play previous, so I could imagine that he was actually concussed earlier:

SB Nation GIF on Twitter: "This is how RGIII's night ends. http://t.co/goGldIvtu6"

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

We can debate exactly where he fits between #6-#16, but he's clearly a top-half QB you can win a super bowl with, and those are worth $20m. Somewhere near that level with Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger, a tier above the Andy Dalton's of the world.

It also depends how they structured the contract... If the $60m guarantee is mostly signing bonus, they're dumb, but if it's yearly roster bonuses that protects them against age-related decline and injury it's almost certainly smart. Remember how shocking Kaepernick's contract was until the structure came out?

Great FO article on Rivers

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Film Room: Philip Rivers

Philip Rivers is the other quarterback of his generation. He's not Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, or Ben Roethlisberger, but that doesn't mean he's worse than them. Rivers' career has been subtly brilliant for a variety of reasons, but more important than any of those ancillary aspects is his subtlety on the field. He has built a fine career on doing spectacular things that are unspectacular to your typical onlooker. His subtle genius on the field is only matched by his brash insanity off of it.

[cuervo72]

Jerome needs a lozenge.

[cuervo72]

Heh, I was behind on my feed and the Ravens announcers said as much - at 8:15.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Heh, I was behind on my feed and the Ravens announcers said as much - at 8:15.

[EagleFan]

Bradford looked okay, got up from the hits which is what I wanted to see.

Sanchez looked as he should, a solid backup.

Barkley looked okay, not quite as good as last week but he looked like a solid three.

Tebow still looked lost. Gave up on receivers too soon, looked to run too soon on most, still winds up. He is not an NFL level quarterback. I wish they would end this experiment now so we can stop hearing all the sheep praise how "great" he is.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I wish they would end this experiment now so we can stop hearing all the sheep praise how "great" he is.

It's okay. Us "sheep" are equally sick to fucking death of listening to self-appointed expert assholes bitch about him.

You're actually advocating keeping Sanchez on a roster, your football credibility is zero.

[NobodyHere]

It's going to be a long year for the Colts defense if they even make Jay Cutler look good.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's okay. Us "sheep" are equally sick to fucking death of listening to self-appointed expert assholes bitch about him.

You're actually advocating keeping Sanchez on a roster, your football credibility is zero.

Sanchez is Tom Brady in comparison to Tebow. I admire that he hasn't given up his dream, but he just doesn't have the tools.

[cuervo72]

If Tebow is going to succeed, it's going to be in a system like Kelly's, I think. But to run it successfully he'd still have to be able to deliver passes accurately and make a couple of reads, and I'm not sure if he can do that or not. There are too many times where receivers aren't open and he just looks lost. I'm also not sure that he's fast enough to really succeed as a running threat in the faster NFL. On some plays yes (even Foles managed to make gains occasionally), but not if it is going to be relied on. See what's happened with RGIII after a couple injuries. He hasn't been quite the same threat to run, so his passing ability has been very exposed.

Sanchez...yeah. Sometimes he will show flashes - the pass that was dropped by #45 or whatever (some TE or FB, don't know who he is yet; illegal contact called on the play anyway) was brilliantly thrown. But you just wait for the turnovers to come. He WILL do something stupid, you just don't know when. Which makes him a capable backup QB in an emergency, but not a guy who will reliably get you anywhere.

[Solecismic]

If you're trying to decide between Mark Sanchez and Tim Tebow for your roster, you're probably in a bad situation. But you have to take Sanchez. Yes, he'll throw some interceptions that leave you scratching your head. But he'll also make a lot of plays for you and he can get into a rhythm. When he's on, he can compete with the better defenses. There's also the argument that most of his career has been with quarterback-killer Rex Ryan (the same argument means Geno Smith is still employed). Sanchez is, at this point, probably an OK NFL backup.

Tebow, on the other hand, simply isn't accurate enough to be on an NFL roster. He makes terrible decisions. And he brings bajillions of fans who lose all objectivity when he's concerned, so you're always under pressure to start him.

[NobodyHere]

Apparently the Patriots are showing some interest in Reggie Wayne, even giving him a physical.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's okay. Us "sheep" are equally sick to fucking death of listening to self-appointed expert assholes bitch about him.

You're actually advocating keeping Sanchez on a roster, your football credibility is zero.

By this logic, the entire NFL's credibility is zero, because Sanchez would make any roster in the league. Don't be daft.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Tebow, on the other hand, simply isn't accurate enough to be on an NFL roster.

He'll win you more games than Sanchez.

Higher QBR, higher win %, sorry but I ain't buying the complaints on that comparison.

Do you have to play to his strengths? Yep ... same as most QBs.

I'd still take my chances with him on any given Sunday over close to half the QBs in the league. (And it's only under half because of his extended layoff).

[jeff061]

What are Tebows strengths? His slow lumber?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He'll win you more games than Sanchez.

Higher QBR, higher win %, sorry but I ain't buying the complaints on that comparison.

Do you have to play to his strengths? Yep ... same as most QBs.

I'd still take my chances with him on any given Sunday over close to half the QBs in the league. (And it's only under half because of his extended layoff).

I think as a one-off, change of pace, Tebow can be effective from time to time. Let defensive coordinators prep for him week after week? I don't think he is very effective. In Denver, they won eight games, but their offensive output under Tebow was putrid.

[SegRat]

Jordy Nelson tore his ACL.

[Suicane75]

That fucking sucks. Packers should still be very good but it effin sucks.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He'll win you more games than Sanchez.

Higher QBR, higher win %, sorry but I ain't buying the complaints on that comparison.

Do you have to play to his strengths? Yep ... same as most QBs.

I'd still take my chances with him on any given Sunday over close to half the QBs in the league. (And it's only under half because of his extended layoff).

Dude...

If the Eagles weren't my team, I'd almost wish for Bradford & Sanchez to go down for the year just so we could get a full season of Tebow as a starting QB to finally shut ya'll up. I mean, he wouldn't make it 6 games, but I'd still like to close this case for good.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He'll win you more games than Sanchez.

Higher QBR, higher win %, sorry but I ain't buying the complaints on that comparison.

Do you have to play to his strengths? Yep ... same as most QBs.

I'd still take my chances with him on any given Sunday over close to half the QBs in the league. (And it's only under half because of his extended layoff).

You have lost any credibility with this post.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

He'll win you more games than Sanchez.

Higher QBR, higher win %, sorry but I ain't buying the complaints on that comparison.

Do you have to play to his strengths? Yep ... same as most QBs.

I'd still take my chances with him on any given Sunday over close to half the QBs in the league. (And it's only under half because of his extended layoff).

I find this fascinating. And I'm hardly a Sanchez supporter. He has five seasons of starter-level data and his average game score from my metric is 46 - solidly below average. He was at 52 last season, so there might be some credence in the argument that Rex Ryan is quarterback poison.

Tebow was at 44 for his one season as a starter. The big knock on Sanchez is all the turnovers. Tebow is close to average in that regard. But we haven't had a sub-50 pass-completer in the NFL in a long time. My research suggests incomplete passes are much more serious than most people think.

I also wonder what would happen if he were to start. He's basically a linebacker, so he can take some hits. But NFL defenses hit a lot harder than college defenses. Michigan tried this offense with Devin Gardner (big, tough, run-first, not really elusive, poor accuracy) for the last couple of seasons, and those hits add up a lot. His arm got worse and worse the more he got hit.

His instincts don't seem solid. A lot has been made of that play right before the TMW yesterday - he has a receiver so wide open in the end zone that you or I could make that throw every time. Yet he takes on all these linebackers and gets hammered at the 1. I don't think he can adjust to what he sees out there the way an NFL quarterback needs to adjust.

He's a football player, no doubt about it. But I think he's more a linebacker in terms of talent and ability.