Venting About HS Athletics

[tarcone]

I'm fired up right now. And I just need another outlet.
My daughter is an athlete on our HS cross country team. She made it to state last season as a freshmen. My wife was an all state cross country runner. So we are pretty passionate about this sport.

This past week, our principals wife was walking at the off campus site where our team practices. It is hot and the girls are running in there sports bras and the boys without their shirts on. The wife goes home and tells the principal. He comes down on the coach. I'm friends with the coach and he told me he felt insulted personally and professionally in the meeting. The meeting was to tell him the athletes had to wear shirts.

Okay, seems minor. And it is. But it opened up the door to the real issue. That no one at the HS supports the cross country program. Which in the last few years has grown from about 10 athletes to 50 athletes. And has the highest GPA of the athletic programs and sends kids to state every year.

Support. Last year the AD was at the conference meet. Which all the ADs were. Were any other admins at any other meets? Nope. Has any admin ever gone to a meet besides conference? Nope. What about the state meet? Nope.

Then, the only contact the admin has ever made was to come down heavy handed on the program about shirts. Oh boy, you have some fired up athletes, parents and coaches.

I went to the superintendent. Yes, I didn't go up the chain of command. But I know our HS admin. The supt. said he didn't know and would have an admin call me. The AD did. And boy did he lie. It was disgusting. Told me he addresses practice attire in the coaches meeting at the beginning fmthenyear. Nope. The XC disputed that. And I've been in those meetings myself and never heard him say that. Told me he had been at a XC practice this year. Nope. He would have seen the attire and the coaches or athletes would have seen him. None have.

Then the team had their parent meeting. And the principal showed up. He didn't address the meeting, even the coach said he could. So about 10 of us went to him. And it was ugly. I felt the parents were very succinct with emir concerns. That it wasn't about the shirts, but the lack of support. All we got was politics and deflection and lies. It was terrible. And disgusting. I live about 6 houses from the principal and have always liked and respected him. That's all gone. He wouldn't make one concession. It was our perception is wrong.

I brought up how important and awesome it would have been had our 2 freshmen girls seen their principal at the end of their state XC meet. And that he would be home by 3 pm on a Saturday. He said my son plays soccer and I would miss his game. Really? Your the principal. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices. You have 1000 other kids in your life.

I'm still pissed. The HC has a meeting tomorrow with the asst. supt. but I'm going back to the supt. next week. And tell him the admin lied and played politics. And point out that in the athletic handbook that the athletes are expected to have integrity and be honest. Yet that is lacking in the leadership.

Stupid. Just disgusting.

Well that's all I have. I'm sure I'm overreacting. But, I'm not. I know the sacrifices the admin makes. But that's the job they signed up for. And not many athletes or teams go to state in our district. Rite XC, a few wrestlers, track athletes and band and cheerleading. Rarely does any other team go. We have one state title in the 100 years of existence. I'm beginning to understand why.

[BishopMVP]

Administration sucks at almost every school. We do our best to stay out of their way because every time we have any interaction with them they put in a new dumb rule that nobody asked for that helps no one. Last year the school budget went up 4%, and they cut money for teachers, the arts, and athletics. Where'd the money go? Additional VP's at 3 schools, and 2 more "district-wide" supervisors.

On this specific issue, I don't think it's come up at our school yet, but I know it happened nearby multiple times. But that's no surprise when schools are so terrified of lawsuits that one parent complaint leads to schools banning girls wearing yoga pants, instead of just pulling the 1-2 problem people aside and telling them to stop dressing so sluttily.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sounds about average tbh.

Success in a lot of areas seems to come in spite of admins, usually the best you can hope for is that they just stay out of the way.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sounds about average tbh.

Success in a lot of areas seems to come in spite of admins, usually the best you can hope for is that they just stay out of the way.

agreed. don't worry about their support - that's what sports bras are for.

[stevew]

My dad coached it for like 25 years. I'm probably here because of CC.*


*long complex story of my dad and mom meeting

[JonInMiddleGA]

An aside but, since there's CC people here/like to be here, I'm gonna throw it in anyway ...

Is tailgating a "thing" everywhere where CC, or is that just locally?

Holy Toledo, these folks are nuts for it. Smokers, just-under-circus-size tents, the whole 18 yards. It's f'n insanity.

[cougarfreak]

I'm an assistant principal. It's my first year. Do I suck because I haven't been to an CC meets? I haven't been assigned to supervise one. I've supervised boys soccer, football, and volleyball. I typically supervise 1-2 events a week where I'm at the school until about 9pm. It goes with the territory. As does criticism. If one of our teams made it to state I'd try and be there unless I was assigned to be somewhere else, or my own children had an event. If I saw athletes (boys) w/o shirts at practice, I'd probably drive right on by. I have a good enough relationship with people in my building that if I felt like it was an issue, I'd let the coach know. And I can see where some people might make an issue out of it.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by stevew

My dad coached it for like 25 years. I'm probably here because of CC.*


*long complex story of my dad and mom meeting

Your dad saw your mom in a sports bra, your mom saw your dad without a shirt, and it was love at first sight?

[Coffee Warlord]

And the reality is, much like college sports, unless you're a popular sport (aka football, basketball, and that's probably about it), nobody gives a shit about you.

[corbes]

Same is true for all supervisory work. You don't have to actually be there for everything and everyone all the time, but you do have to create the impression that you were.

[Marmel]

Honestly, you seem to be over-reacting quite a bit. You are pissed because some people didn't come and watch CROSS COUNTRY? What is there to even watch? 15 seconds at the start and 15 seconds at the end?

[corbes]

It's not about watching the event. It's about the kids seeing that their principal is there supporting them.

[Breeze]

Funny CC boys can't go shirtless, but swim team kids can swim in speedos...

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by corbes

It's not about watching the event. It's about the kids seeing that their principal is there supporting them.

I guess I just never cared one bit if my principal, or teacher or an admin was at any of my HS sporting events. I have no idea if any of them ever went and it didn't matter. Why would it? I was playing the sport because I enjoyed playing it. I didn't need some school official there to cheer me on to make me feel good.

[molson]

It does seem like things have changed a lot in the last few decades since I was in high school. Much more parent involvement, much more expectations for teachers and administrators to act like parents rather than teachers and administrators. I'm not saying that's bad, but I do wonder what the impact will be, both the good and the bad.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Marmel

I guess I just never cared one bit if my principal, or teacher or an admin was at any of my HS sporting events. I have no idea if any of them ever went and it didn't matter. Why would it? I was playing the sport because I enjoyed playing it. I didn't need some school official there to cheer me on to make me feel good.

This.

Some acknowledgement after the fact by the administration if the team was performing well would be nice, but I never once worried about if any faculty were there.

[Chief Rum]

Yeah, maybe things have just changed, but when I competed in high school in basketball or track and field, for all I know, the principal was right there in the stands. But I didn't see him, didn't look for him, didn't even conceptualize (or care) that he might show up. He wasn't on my radar as a teenager except to avoid having to go to his office, like any other kid.

The shirts and sports bras thing is stupid on the principal's wife, but the not seeing events? That seems like a big reach to bother to ask for to me.

[tarcone]

I will give you a little more background. With the latest comments it might clear up some things where Im coming from. And I do appreciate the comments, as I come down off my fire.

My wife was an all state CC runner in HS. She had lived through an ugly divorce of her parents. And I mean ugly. The CC coach at the HS became a Fahter figure to her. She really credits him a lot with how her life turned out. And the Principal was also a key figure. She was estatic to see that her principal was at the end of her race at state. It was just more validation of the work and effort she had put in.

And, the way schools are today, it is a more hands on environment. Kids Don't always have 2 parents and a stable environment. And even if they do, whats the harm of coming out to cheer on 50 of your students? Or 4 at state?

The main complaint is the heavy handedness of the admin, that had never said anything to the team before or made an appearance.

In fact, several years ago, one of the runners broke their leg during a race. The coach had to sit in the emergency room for 2 hours while the rest of the team sat on the bus with the bus driver. Because the sport isn't important enough to warrant and admin.

It is like college. Football and basketball make money. So they get the stuff. Everything else is just there.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Marmel

Honestly, you seem to be over-reacting quite a bit. You are pissed because some people didn't come and watch CROSS COUNTRY? What is there to even watch? 15 seconds at the start and 15 seconds at the end?

A good course has around 3-4 cheer points you can migrate to throughout the race

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That seems like a big reach to bother to ask for to me.

I know that my kid (and most of them he's around I'm pretty sure) could tell you pretty readily which members of the admin & faculty have ever gone to one of their games/matches. Hell, we've had a half dozen or more show up for even preliminary rounds of mock trial competitions, not counting those who are directly involved I mean. If you name a faculty/admin member I can tell you whether I've seen them at a tennis match over the past three seasons.

For faculty I think it mostly elevates the standing of those who attend, not sure how much any of them get dinged for not ever being there. For the administration though, yeah, I'd say they are eventually downgraded by both students & parents somewhat if they never ever show up.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I will give you a little more background. With the latest comments it might clear up some things where Im coming from. And I do appreciate the comments, as I come down off my fire.

My wife was an all state CC runner in HS. She had lived through an ugly divorce of her parents. And I mean ugly. The CC coach at the HS became a Fahter figure to her. She really credits him a lot with how her life turned out. And the Principal was also a key figure. She was estatic to see that her principal was at the end of her race at state. It was just more validation of the work and effort she had put in.

And, the way schools are today, it is a more hands on environment. Kids Don't always have 2 parents and a stable environment. And even if they do, whats the harm of coming out to cheer on 50 of your students? Or 4 at state?

The main complaint is the heavy handedness of the admin, that had never said anything to the team before or made an appearance.

In fact, several years ago, one of the runners broke their leg during a race. The coach had to sit in the emergency room for 2 hours while the rest of the team sat on the bus with the bus driver. Because the sport isn't important enough to warrant and admin.

It is like college. Football and basketball make money. So they get the stuff. Everything else is just there.

This is just how life works at the vast majority of schools across the country. I was an all division runner and captain of the XC team in high school, and I highly doubt the principal knew who the hell I was. That's not even mentioning the AD: now that I think back, the guy who I now assume was probably our athletic director, I had thought all these years he was our football director. They were pretty much synonymous, as far as I could tell.

I'm just surprised that you could have gone all these decades, seeing over and over how the world works and all, and still be surprised and get riled up about it. For the sake of your blood pressure, just accept it and let it go.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

And the reality is, much like college sports, unless you're a popular sport (aka football, basketball, and that's probably about it), nobody gives a shit about you.

CC draws crowds bigger than everything here but football ... and multi-team events (due to the larger number of visitors) even outdraws football.

When I mentioned the tailgating earlier, I wasn't kidding. It appears to be by far the most social of all our sports here.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

I'm just surprised that you could have gone all these decades, seeing over and over how the world works and all, and still get riled up about it. For the sake of your blood pressure, just accept it and let it go.

I kinda took it that the heavy-handed interference was the part that caused the riling, the lack of interaction aside from that seemed to just be an add-on. Or at least that was my read.

[Subby]

This seems like a massive overreaction on your part, no offense. Are the meets still being run? Are the kids getting a fun social and competitive outlet after school? Not sure anyone is owed much beyond that.

[NobodyHere]

I really hate it when sports teams think they're entitled to support by the student body.

The thing I hated most (well second most) at my high school were the dumb sports rallies students were forced to go to.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I kinda took it that the heavy-handed interference was the part that caused the riling, the lack of interaction aside from that seemed to just be an add-on. Or at least that was my read.

This.

I could care less about the shirts. Wear them or not.

The program has been around since 1997. And during that time the teams practice off campus. The guys never wore shirts if they didn't want to. same with the girls. They just wore the sports bras. Again, this is the tradition.
Then 5 days before the opening meet, the admin jumps on them. And the principal said he was unaware.
So the team ran this way for almost 20 years. And no one said anything. And no one cared a bit about the program. Then BANG> here they are.

The way they handled it was poor. And with the lack of support, which the parents and athletes accepted. Until they came down on htem.

A sophomore girl called out the principal and read him the riot act in about 5 sentences. It was awesome. She summed it up best. She felt the team was targeted. That no one ever said anything about anything and then this.

The teams also love the coaches. And they feel the coaches are being threatened. Thus the heavy hanededness by the admin.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I really hate it when sports teams think they're entitled to support by the student body.

The thing I hated most (well second most) at my high school were the dumb sports rallies students were forced to go to.

Its not the student body they are concerned about. Its the admin.

The boys and girlsd team have had the most success in the classroom (girls 3.6 gpa, boys 3.2 gpa) than any other team in the school. They regularily send athletes to state meets. More than any other team in the district.

The only time they feel recognized is in a negative interaction.

[lighthousekeeper]

smh

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I really hate it when sports teams think they're entitled to support by the student body.

Umm ... seriously?

I've cheered many a peer that I otherwise disliked, not them but rather their effort on behalf of the whole.

And, truth be told, I've probably cheered many an unlikable prick of a kid as an adult for the same reason far more often.

I respect the effort & commitment, I know the hours it takes.

[tarcone]

I want to thank you guys for responding. All opinions were/are very valuable. It helped me a lot.
I feel much more calm. Time and stating my feelings both helped.

[Flasch186]

'couldnt'