The new Amway - World Wide Dreambuilders

[nilodor]

Recently my wife and I were approached by a couple (no it's not one of those stories so put your popcorn away), who wanted to discuss a business venture. We've met with them over coffee twice and had to read some literature (Business of the 21st century by Robert Kiyosaki). Basically everything they discussed was pretty vague, basically trying to sell you on big business mentality, i.e. basically disconnecting from the day to day process of generating revenue into a step out from that. Anyways, the didn't really say anything about the business plan or provide many details.

Last night we went to a "talk" with about 1000 other people. It was basically a two hour motivational speech, targeting an idealized way of life (getting to a point where you earn more, passively, so you have more time), and using a whole bunch of metaphors that basically make it sound like you'd be stupid to want to be an employee or a small business owner and really harping on the relationships and mentorship aspects. They spent about 10 minutes discussing the plan, which they say makes them 750K a year, with overhead around 2K per year. This has taken 10 years to build. The plan from what I can tell is basically you have a "store" which is linked to a whole bunch of websites like bestbuy, apple, nike, etc. where you get money back for shopping with them. At the start it's 3%, but as you mentor people and they spend for daily items it can increase to 30 something% plus some vig off of your network.

At the end of this they basically present a path forward where you would meet with a mentor, beyond the sponsor, to set up this business, if you are lucky enough to earn the right.

Anyways alarm bells are going off in our heads and we're pretty sure that this $150 per month doesn't cover, conferences, fancy promo material, educational books, etc., plus I have a feeling like you'll be "encouraged" to mentor others pretty strongly. My sense is that a few may be successful with this model but it's probably not going to deliver on their promises. It sounds more appealing since it doesn't seemed to be tied to crappy amway products, but I don't know that for certain and we're leaning pretty hard that it's a scam, we're just not certain if there are some okish benefits.

Does anyone have experience with this particular brand of multi-level-marketing? It also goes by the name World Wide Dreambuilders.

Also the meeting was nuts, when I was a teenager I got suckered into a Billy Graham Jr. talk, and the vibe was very similar, stand ovations, tears, lots of grunts of approval from the audience. Surreal.

[SteveMax58]

No specific experience with this....but it sounds like a typical Ponzi scheme. Or "multi-level marketing" as they probably prefer to call it.

And you're probably right, that just like all good ponzi schemes, you'll be strongly encouraged to find new recruits.

[vex]

Anyone ever been recruited by Amway or World Wide Dream Builders, what was your experience like? : AskReddit

[CraigSca]

Please see my facebook stream for friends/family who are selling Plexus, It Works!, Herbalife, etc.

Same thing, different product.

I was brought to a meeting for ACN - they were selling discount electricity, phone plans, cable and then even introduced a futuristic phone with a tv screen so you could SEE the person you were talking to. Of course, the other person had to have the same type of phone to use. My first question, as this was only a few years ago, "ever hear of Skype?"

It's all a bunch of crap. You spend the majority of your time begging friends and acquaintances to join under you, selling them products they don't need and destroying any friendship in the process. Good times.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

No specific experience with this....but it sounds like a typical Ponzi scheme. Or "multi-level marketing" as they probably prefer to call it.

And you're probably right, that just like all good ponzi schemes, you'll be strongly encouraged to find new recruits.

Actually, knowing that MLM has a bad name, I've heard them use the term "direct sales" instead saying it's the business model of the future. Barf.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Please see my facebook stream for friends/family who are selling Plexus, It Works!, Herbalife, etc.

You're welcome to visit my stream to pick up essential oils, life insurance and financial planning advice that will secure your future & make all your dreams come true.

[flere-imsaho]

Once upon a time, before we were married, my wife went to a financial planning seminar at her employer (Anderson Consulting, at the time) put on by Northwestern Mutual.

The advice given (it was aimed to people relatively new to the workforce) was all quite reasonable, if a little obvious, but nothing wrong or noxious. At the conclusion they offered free consultations for people who wanted a little more help / advice / guidance on planning for the future, especially where retirement was concerned.

At this point I was already reasonably saavy with regard to savings vehicles, tax deferment, retirement planning, etc..., but I said I was happy to go along in the hope that we might pick up something new.

Hahahahaha....

We make an appointment, go to the office in downtown Chicago, are met by a couple of associates our age (warning flag) and start talking. They proceed to explain to us why we need to invest in term life. Bear in mind they're talking to two people in their mid-20s with good jobs, advanced degrees, and employer-provided 401k, life and AD&D. There is no scenario I have come across whereby this is a good deal for us, and it still isn't even though we're now in our 40s.

Anyway, we were polite right up until the point that they asked (more demanded) that we give them the names and numbers of three friends (or more!) who would be interested in this product, as a prerequisite for discussing our purchase of their product further.

At which point I stifled a laugh, got up, said "we're done" and walked out.

I can't imagine how many people fall for this kind of thing, though.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Once upon a time, before we were married, my wife went to a financial planning seminar at her employer (Anderson Consulting, at the time) put on by Northwestern Mutual.

The advice given (it was aimed to people relatively new to the workforce) was all quite reasonable, if a little obvious, but nothing wrong or noxious. At the conclusion they offered free consultations for people who wanted a little more help / advice / guidance on planning for the future, especially where retirement was concerned.

At this point I was already reasonably saavy with regard to savings vehicles, tax deferment, retirement planning, etc..., but I said I was happy to go along in the hope that we might pick up something new.

Hahahahaha....

We make an appointment, go to the office in downtown Chicago, are met by a couple of associates our age (warning flag) and start talking. They proceed to explain to us why we need to invest in term life. Bear in mind they're talking to two people in their mid-20s with good jobs, advanced degrees, and employer-provided 401k, life and AD&D. There is no scenario I have come across whereby this is a good deal for us, and it still isn't even though we're now in our 40s.

Anyway, we were polite right up until the point that they asked (more demanded) that we give them the names and numbers of three friends (or more!) who would be interested in this product, as a prerequisite for discussing our purchase of their product further.

At which point I stifled a laugh, got up, said "we're done" and walked out.

I can't imagine how many people fall for this kind of thing, though.

This story would have been even better with a diagram.

[CU Tiger]

Kiyosaki is a known liar, con artist and thief.

Willingly attaching his name to it would make me run.

RDPD had some decent mind/though process points....but beyond that everythimg else he has done is either ripping off other noted writers or flat out lieing.

[CraigSca]

Yeah, huh?

Edit: I got it now. My bad.

[Thomkal]

One of my brothers and his wife are members of WorldVentures, a travel club. They tried separately to get my mother and I interested in it. It was sounding pretty cult like because they'd use the same quotes, facts, etc word for word in what they told us about it. I did not go for it. I'm not sure they have ever made any real money off of it, but they do go on vacations they never would have before, and met many people they never would have met without it. They haven't been bankrupted by it either. I think the company now is in the Fortune 500 or other such group.

Like all things of this sort, you have to really check it out for yourself and decide if its legit. It also is what you put into it. You have to network, promote the club, go to meetings, etc to make it worth your while. You can check it out here and decide for yourself like I did if it is worth it for you. I can probably get you a local contact if you want to explore it further (just PM me). Just remember, I don't work for them, I just get second-hand stories about it from my brother and his wife.

WorldVentures | A Home Based Direct Selling Travel Club

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I can't imagine how many people fall for this kind of thing, though.

*raises hand*

[MacroGuru]

My fiance and I are with IT Works, we focus on retail commission based sales, which is why we will never roll in the big bucks, because we won't hassle people to join underneath us. If they do join, it's because they have asked us how do I save money.

That's it..and none of you have seen it on my FB feed, because we won't hit it up that way.

[Kodos]

For whatever reason, this thread reminds me of the following Simpsons scene:



Crowd: We need a cure! We need a cure!

Dr. Hibbert: Why, the only cure is bed rest. Anything I give you would only be a placebo.

Woman in Crowd: Where do we get these placebos?

Man: Maybe there's some in this truck!

[the panicky crowd push over a truck, boxes labeled "danger killer bees" break open, the bees go everywhere and everyone panics, one man puts a bee in his mouth]

Man: I'm cured! I mean, ouch!

[Fidatelo]

A close friend of mine has gotten wrapped up into World Financial Group over the past couple years. He has tried a few times to get us to view his 'presentation' but so far we've all mostly been able to avoid it without driving him away. Given what I've read about these places, though, I'm concerned that at some point the relationships are going to begin to breakdown.

I'm also concerned because he quit a decent job as an accountant to go down this path. His girlfriend is also in WFG (she is the one that got him wrapped up in it), and I won't be super shocked if they come up on hard times financially in the next few years. I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me I'm not.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Once upon a time, before we were married, my wife went to a financial planning seminar at her employer (Anderson Consulting, at the time) put on by Northwestern Mutual.

The advice given (it was aimed to people relatively new to the workforce) was all quite reasonable, if a little obvious, but nothing wrong or noxious. At the conclusion they offered free consultations for people who wanted a little more help / advice / guidance on planning for the future, especially where retirement was concerned.

At this point I was already reasonably saavy with regard to savings vehicles, tax deferment, retirement planning, etc..., but I said I was happy to go along in the hope that we might pick up something new.

Hahahahaha....

We make an appointment, go to the office in downtown Chicago, are met by a couple of associates our age (warning flag) and start talking. They proceed to explain to us why we need to invest in term life. Bear in mind they're talking to two people in their mid-20s with good jobs, advanced degrees, and employer-provided 401k, life and AD&D. There is no scenario I have come across whereby this is a good deal for us, and it still isn't even though we're now in our 40s.

Anyway, we were polite right up until the point that they asked (more demanded) that we give them the names and numbers of three friends (or more!) who would be interested in this product, as a prerequisite for discussing our purchase of their product further.

At which point I stifled a laugh, got up, said "we're done" and walked out.

I can't imagine how many people fall for this kind of thing, though.

Term life isn't a good deal???

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

A close friend of mine has gotten wrapped up into World Financial Group over the past couple years. He has tried a few times to get us to view his 'presentation' but so far we've all mostly been able to avoid it without driving him away. Given what I've read about these places, though, I'm concerned that at some point the relationships are going to begin to breakdown.

I'm also concerned because he quit a decent job as an accountant to go down this path. His girlfriend is also in WFG (she is the one that got him wrapped up in it), and I won't be super shocked if they come up on hard times financially in the next few years. I hope I'm wrong, but my gut tells me I'm not.

They certainly do drive the we will be your new friends wagon. And it's dirty the way they do it, extolling the virtues of more family time, why would you want to be a cog in the machine when you could have several machines. I swear they have actors in the crowd to pump things up at the right times. In some ways it was like a 2 hour half time speech.

[CraigSca]

Did they show you a video of an attractive, young couple walking around a golf course/resort with their new sports car parked in the driveway? That's pretty much the M.O.

Oh, they'll also tell you how you can now spend all that extra free time on the important things in life like your spouse, family and travel.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Marmel

Term life isn't a good deal???

Not categorically. flere did mention that he and his spouse had accidental death and dismemberment insurance already, which probably covered their bases in addition to their other assets and circumstances.

[Logan]

I figured he meant whole life. That's usually what gets pitched to you from financial planners as they pitch it as an investment, which is the word he used.

They proceed to explain to us why we need to invest in term life.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by Logan

I figured he meant whole life. That's usually what gets pitched to you from financial planners as they pitch it as an investment, which is the word he used.

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. You are probably right.

[CraigSca]

Well, that and they were unmarried, no kids, had employee life insurance, etc. Why would you need term life if you're single with no kids?

[digamma]

The Northwest Mutual pitch is whole life. They bill it as a tax structuring strategy. It's not completely meritless, but in your 20s you can certainly be more aggressive with investments.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

*raises hand*

To be clear, I meant that I can see how easy it would be to be taken in by the pitch, not that only the super-gullible would do it. It was a slick pitch. Also:

Originally Posted by Logan

I figured he meant whole life. That's usually what gets pitched to you from financial planners as they pitch it as an investment, which is the word he used.

It could have been. It was a while ago (er, almost 20 years).

Originally Posted by digamma

The Northwest Mutual pitch is whole life. They bill it as a tax structuring strategy. It's not completely meritless, but in your 20s you can certainly be more aggressive with investments.

That sounds exactly correct. Especially the tax structuring strategy part.