OT - Question about internet privacy

QuikSand · 12-05-2003, 01:29 PM

Sorry if this question reveals my fairly extreme naivete about such things... but a recent conversation revealed to me how little I know about such things.

I was talking with an acquaintance recently about a second amendment issue (long story) and she commented "Well, I was thinking about going online to get more information, but I didn't want the NRA to know what I'm up to."

Okay, setting aside the political undertones there (please), it raised in my mind a series of questions. Among them:

-Is there a way for the proprietors of a web site to know that I (or my computer) has visited their site?

-Can they get from that things like my name and/or email address?

-Does my browser's setting for things like cookies have any connection to the ability for people to "track" me and my internet visits?

(These questions simply assume that I don't fill out any information, download anything, or input any other sorts of information voluntarily)

I guess in my mind, I had always through that the limits of technology probably limited "them" (you nkow who I mean... the big "they" out there) to knowing that, say, someone from my ISP had contacted their website... that sort of thing. But not me personally.

So... from the perspective of a regular internet user who doesn't really have a specific stake in this sort of thing -- just what is out there? What do the proprietors of the "All Your Base Are Belong To Us" website know about me?

sabotai · 12-05-2003, 01:40 PM

"-Is there a way for the proprietors of a web site to know that I (or my computer) has visited their site? "

Kind of....

"-Can they get from that things like my name and/or email address?"

They'd have to get them through your ISP, since all they really know is that someone from your ISP visited them. Like if I check the stats of my website, I see a list of hits. What comes up in the stats for my hit on my website is a bunch of numbers and letter followed by "nj.comcast.net". (The numbers and letters probably have to do with the speicifc hub or node that I am on for comcast).

Now that's just visiting the website. In order to do things, like make a purchase or sign up for a forum, then "they" can record your IP address. Depending on how you access the interent (static IP vs. Dynamic IP), this may or may not be specific only to you.

"-Does my browser's setting for things like cookies have any connection to the ability for people to "track" me and my internet visits?"

Not an expert on cookies, so I don't know. But I don't think so. I think they'd need to actually install a spyware program on your computer to track you. I don't think cookies have enough capability to do that.

SnDvls · 12-05-2003, 01:40 PM

spyware is out there and it doesn't do you a lot of harm if you aren't giving them any info (e-mail, name, address ect.) but it sure can screw up what you see in pop ups as you surf different sites. I have pop up blocker (freeware) and spybot search and destroy just because I feel it's none of their business where I surf and if they want to know they should ask. Now not all sites have these however most that do are not safe to view at work and sites like news sites and such. That's what I know, but someone else who is more knowledgable may be able to help better.

Travis

FBPro · 12-05-2003, 01:46 PM

I run "spybot search and destroy" and "ad-aware" every couple of days on all of our PC's.

cthomer5000 · 12-05-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
What do the proprietors of the "All Your Base Are Belong To Us" website know about me?

Well, they definitely know that you set us up the bomb.

Sloan · 12-05-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand

-Does my browser's setting for things like cookies have any connection to the ability for people to "track" me and my internet visits?

For some types of tracking yes. A lot of the banner ads you see at the top of web pages come from a company like doubleclick which tracks what types of websites you visit and returns this info back to their servers using a cookie. This way they can target advertising to the correct websites.

Right now Doubleclick and others say they don't collect personal info about you, but it certainly is possible to do so.

John Galt · 12-05-2003, 02:07 PM

Since when do supercomputers worry about other computers tracing them?

Maple Leafs · 12-05-2003, 02:14 PM

Sabotai has it basically right. You realistically don't need to worry about the site knowing it's you unless they go through your ISP. That's assuming you're not logging on to the site, of course.

As far as cookies, they can be used to track you through the site -- what pages you looked at, what links you clicked, what order you visited things in, etc. However, they wouldn't personally identify you. In other words, the cookies could tell me that visitor #44345 hit my site, spent 30 seconds on the homepage, click through five pages in a certain order, and then left to go visit FOFC. But it wouldn't tell me that person's name or other identifying information.

As with anything, there are various nasty things a site could do to try and track you (spyware, malicious code, etc) but realistically it's not something you need to worry about.

Subby · 12-05-2003, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FBPro
I run "spybot search and destroy" and "ad-aware" every couple of days on all of our PC's.

I run those as well but it is tedious to run it 27 times on 27 machines. Have you heard of any centralized spyware-removal product for internal networks? I am thinking of something akin to Norton Anti-virus Corporate Edition which has a central management console and run system scan, pushes definitions, etc...

Alan T · 12-05-2003, 02:27 PM

Spybot search and destroy has an immunize feature on it where it supposedly protects the PC from aquiring future spyware on it, to lessen the amount of how often you have to run it on the system. (You still would need to update it and run it periodically though).

As for what people can see or know about you.. I work in network security, and from time to time have had some legal department come looking for information on someone hitting particular sites at a given time...

Generally when you go to a website, you often will tell them your IP address, what Operating system you run, what type of browser you are using.

From that information it sometimes is easy to find out who or what type of user it is. The IP address will tell you what ISP that person was using, often times it will tell you what part of the country, what state, what city or even what street someone lives on. I have even seen some cases where an "account" or name was attached to the reverse DNS for an IP address.

There are various tools that people can use to "probe" an IP address to find out more information about the address if you are not running some form of protection (from personal firewall software, to NAT devices like a linksys router, netgear or whatnot, or a full blown network security device , ie: firewall).

Some of these things you can protect yourself against.. sites like www.grc.com were originally created to help internet users understand what their computer is telling the rest of the world about them. Internet security could be a topic that you could go an entire afternoon on.

Alan T · 12-05-2003, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan T

sites like www.grc.com were originally created to help internet users understand what their computer is telling the rest of the world about them.

It looks like he uses grc.com to sell more products now a days.. the part that used to be the core of grc.com which includes a test to see what your computer reports back can be found here:

https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2

QuikSand · 12-05-2003, 02:40 PM

Thanks Alan... I got really good marks from the site you indicated, at least while my compuyer is docked here at my office network (where our IT guy is a paranoid type about this stuff). I may check again when at home, on my network set up by a ten-thumbed idiot (me).

HillbillyLoveChild · 12-05-2003, 02:41 PM

hehe druez would be able to tell ou all about it...but he is banned :P

Franklinnoble · 12-05-2003, 02:56 PM

Actually, certain websites can find out a lot about you just from surfing them - mostly if you're running IE.

SpyWare installed on your PC (typically via ActiveX applets) can scan your computer for personal information and report it back to a centralized server. Typically, these apps scan the contents of your cookies folder (and a lot of cookies can hold personal info like e-mail addresses) and your browser cache and history. Then they send you all kinds of spam, usually targeted towards the type of sites you tend to visit, but certainly not limited to this field.

It's a very real concern. Good spyware tools like spybot can help. Even better - buy a firewall program like ZoneAlarm Pro which will prevent any unauthorized network traffic going in or out of your PC.

Alan T · 12-05-2003, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Franklinnoble
Actually, certain websites can find out a lot about you just from surfing them - mostly if you're running IE.

SpyWare installed on your PC (typically via ActiveX applets) can scan your computer for personal information and report it back to a centralized server. Typically, these apps scan the contents of your cookies folder (and a lot of cookies can hold personal info like e-mail addresses) and your browser cache and history. Then they send you all kinds of spam, usually targeted towards the type of sites you tend to visit, but certainly not limited to this field.

It's a very real concern. Good spyware tools like spybot can help. Even better - buy a firewall program like ZoneAlarm Pro which will prevent any unauthorized network traffic going in or out of your PC.

This is one of the best reasons not to use IE. There are ways to turn off the ability for sites to do alot of that, but most users do not know how to do that and thus never do.

Franklinnoble · 12-05-2003, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alan T
This is one of the best reasons not to use IE. There are ways to turn off the ability for sites to do alot of that, but most users do not know how to do that and thus never do.

Browsers like Mozilla ship with a little more security "out of the box." It would be easy for Microsoft to do the same thing with IE, but it's really not in their best interests to do so. Microsoft themselves is one of the worst purveyors of spyware. Anyone who has SpyBot and/or ZoneAlarm Pro installed and has visited MSN.com with IE can confirm this.

12-05-2003, 02:07 PM	#7
John Galt Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Internets	Since when do supercomputers worry about other computers tracing them? __________________ I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man. - The Dude

12-05-2003, 02:27 PM	#10
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Spybot search and destroy has an immunize feature on it where it supposedly protects the PC from aquiring future spyware on it, to lessen the amount of how often you have to run it on the system. (You still would need to update it and run it periodically though). As for what people can see or know about you.. I work in network security, and from time to time have had some legal department come looking for information on someone hitting particular sites at a given time... Generally when you go to a website, you often will tell them your IP address, what Operating system you run, what type of browser you are using. From that information it sometimes is easy to find out who or what type of user it is. The IP address will tell you what ISP that person was using, often times it will tell you what part of the country, what state, what city or even what street someone lives on. I have even seen some cases where an "account" or name was attached to the reverse DNS for an IP address. There are various tools that people can use to "probe" an IP address to find out more information about the address if you are not running some form of protection (from personal firewall software, to NAT devices like a linksys router, netgear or whatnot, or a full blown network security device , ie: firewall). Some of these things you can protect yourself against.. sites like www.grc.com were originally created to help internet users understand what their computer is telling the rest of the world about them. Internet security could be a topic that you could go an entire afternoon on. __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

12-05-2003, 02:41 PM	#13
HillbillyLoveChild n00b Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: houston	hehe druez would be able to tell ou all about it...but he is banned :P __________________ peace through strength, respect from fear, and kill anyone using L33t Sp34k

12-05-2003, 01:40 PM	#2
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	"-Is there a way for the proprietors of a web site to know that I (or my computer) has visited their site? " Kind of.... "-Can they get from that things like my name and/or email address?" They'd have to get them through your ISP, since all they really know is that someone from your ISP visited them. Like if I check the stats of my website, I see a list of hits. What comes up in the stats for my hit on my website is a bunch of numbers and letter followed by "nj.comcast.net". (The numbers and letters probably have to do with the speicifc hub or node that I am on for comcast). Now that's just visiting the website. In order to do things, like make a purchase or sign up for a forum, then "they" can record your IP address. Depending on how you access the interent (static IP vs. Dynamic IP), this may or may not be specific only to you. "-Does my browser's setting for things like cookies have any connection to the ability for people to "track" me and my internet visits?" Not an expert on cookies, so I don't know. But I don't think so. I think they'd need to actually install a spyware program on your computer to track you. I don't think cookies have enough capability to do that.

12-05-2003, 01:40 PM	#3
SnDvls Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001	spyware is out there and it doesn't do you a lot of harm if you aren't giving them any info (e-mail, name, address ect.) but it sure can screw up what you see in pop ups as you surf different sites. I have pop up blocker (freeware) and spybot search and destroy just because I feel it's none of their business where I surf and if they want to know they should ask. Now not all sites have these however most that do are not safe to view at work and sites like news sites and such. That's what I know, but someone else who is more knowledgable may be able to help better. Travis

12-05-2003, 01:46 PM	#4
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	I run "spybot search and destroy" and "ad-aware" every couple of days on all of our PC's. __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

12-05-2003, 02:14 PM	#8
Maple Leafs Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002	Sabotai has it basically right. You realistically don't need to worry about the site knowing it's you unless they go through your ISP. That's assuming you're not logging on to the site, of course. As far as cookies, they can be used to track you through the site -- what pages you looked at, what links you clicked, what order you visited things in, etc. However, they wouldn't personally identify you. In other words, the cookies could tell me that visitor #44345 hit my site, spent 30 seconds on the homepage, click through five pages in a certain order, and then left to go visit FOFC. But it wouldn't tell me that person's name or other identifying information. As with anything, there are various nasty things a site could do to try and track you (spyware, malicious code, etc) but realistically it's not something you need to worry about.

12-05-2003, 02:40 PM	#12
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Thanks Alan... I got really good marks from the site you indicated, at least while my compuyer is docked here at my office network (where our IT guy is a paranoid type about this stuff). I may check again when at home, on my network set up by a ten-thumbed idiot (me).

12-05-2003, 02:56 PM	#14
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	Actually, certain websites can find out a lot about you just from surfing them - mostly if you're running IE. SpyWare installed on your PC (typically via ActiveX applets) can scan your computer for personal information and report it back to a centralized server. Typically, these apps scan the contents of your cookies folder (and a lot of cookies can hold personal info like e-mail addresses) and your browser cache and history. Then they send you all kinds of spam, usually targeted towards the type of sites you tend to visit, but certainly not limited to this field. It's a very real concern. Good spyware tools like spybot can help. Even better - buy a firewall program like ZoneAlarm Pro which will prevent any unauthorized network traffic going in or out of your PC.

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