Cops are great thread

[TCY Junkie]

Not saying there aren't some bad apples but in general they put their life on the line for my safety. I like what they do, like feeling all safe and shit.

[TCY Junkie]

When a cop pulls me over I treat him like he could have bad information and think I'm a bank robber. Would never resist arrest. These are citizens who put their life on the line.

Was thinking about murders in Chicago. When that many people die, there is something wrong. I went to the FBI page to look up murders stats in 2015 so I would know how bad this cop killing thing was. I was shocked. All I hear is 12 percent of population is black but almost as many killed as white people by cops. It states 4,379 black arrested for murder compared to 3,799 white people. 4,379 is bigger than 3,799. More blacks are arrested for murder than whites.

Shouldn't we look at total number of murders instead of the population of the race. Only thing that makes sense to me is how many murderers were arrested. That's what cops are using deadly force to prevent, them being killed.

I want this country to be great so somehow we need to change. Provide beneficial things for people that want to succeed in high murder areas. If the murderer rates fall back in line, the number killed by cops would adjust.

[wustin]

When I was in college the apartment complex I lived at had the campus police station right next to it. Everytime I would walk back from my classes, I jaywalked across the street to save time. One day one of the campus officers saw me jaywalking while in his car. He drove by and stopped me midway, told me to turn back around and use the crosswalk.

For the record...the total number of whites who are killed by cops are much greater than blacks. I think the number is ~49% of the total killed are white compared to ~30% who are black. If you account for the total population in the US (~64% are white, ~12% are black), it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that blacks are killed at a higher rate than whites. Most likely because blacks commit the most reported crimes, but that's another issue to discuss.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by TCY Junkie

When a cop pulls me over I treat him like he could have bad information and think I'm a bank robber. Would never resist arrest. These are citizens who put their life on the line.

Was thinking about murders in Chicago. When that many people die, there is something wrong. I went to the FBI page to look up murders stats in 2015 so I would know how bad this cop killing thing was. I was shocked. All I hear is 12 percent of population is black but almost as many killed as white people by cops. It states 4,379 black arrested for murder compared to 3,799 white people. 4,379 is bigger than 3,799. More blacks are arrested for murder than whites.

Shouldn't we look at total number of murders instead of the population of the race. Only thing that makes sense to me is how many murderers were arrested. That's what cops are using deadly force to prevent, them being killed.

I want this country to be great so somehow we need to change. Provide beneficial things for people that want to succeed in high murder areas. If the murderer rates fall back in line, the number killed by cops would adjust.

Threadjacking your own thread? There's a new one.

[MacroGuru]

My future Bro-in-law is a detective, my future father-in-law is a retired Police Chief.

I have learned a lot from talking to them about thought processes, what their opinions are in regards to some of the cops who have killed illegally and their thoughts on the attacks on officers.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by wustin

Most likely because blacks commit the most reported crimes, but that's another issue to discuss.

So when a guy is murdered they are arresting the murderer and this is some how injustice.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Threadjacking your own thread? There's a new one.

Not really. This is about cops getting bad rep. When I see a criminal putting a cops life in danger, it boggles my mind that so many side with the criminal. He should have a right to get home to his family and not treated like an average citizen. He puts himself in dangerous situation for the people of this country.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

My future Bro-in-law is a detective, my future father-in-law is a retired Police Chief.

I have learned a lot from talking to them about thought processes, what their opinions are in regards to some of the cops who have killed illegally and their thoughts on the attacks on officers.

I saw this one video of cop shooting guy in back while trying to jog away. There are definitely some serious mistakes made by some. No one is perfect and some never should have had the job. Want everyone to get along. Looking at the stats of murderers, I would think more black people would get by cops than white.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by TCY Junkie

Not really. This is about cops getting bad rep. When I see a criminal putting a cops life in danger, it boggles my mind that so many side with the criminal. He should have a right to get home to his family and not treated like an average citizen. He puts himself in dangerous situation for the people of this country.

well it's clear from this post you are bias. You are quick to paint all cops with a single brush. Come on, you have to admit there are some exceptions, right?

I mean, there is such a thing as... female cops, right?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by TCY Junkie

So when a guy is murdered they are arresting the murderer and this is some how injustice.

It is when they arrest the wrong person, which happens far more than you'd think. I'd recommend the book "Just Mercy" by Bryan Stevenson:

Amazon.com: Just Mercy: A Story of Justice and Redemption (9780812984965): Bryan Stevenson: Books

And, of course, all the people who after DNA testing were found innocent of the crime they sat on Death Row for.

[MrBug708]

But how much of that was because of of false testimony as opposed to a dirty cop. Not all innocent people in jail are there because of dirty cops. I'd say it's a pretty small amount.

I was in the LAPD academy for a few months before coming to some realizations that I didn't foresee ahead of time.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It is when they arrest the wrong person, which happens far more than you'd think. I'd recommend the book "Just Mercy" by Bryan Stevenson:

Amazon.com: Just Mercy: A Story of Justice and Redemption (9780812984965): Bryan Stevenson: Books

And, of course, all the people who after DNA testing were found innocent of the crime they sat on Death Row for.

With millions of butterflies in the world, every now & then one is going to land in the wrong spot & cause a 12 car pileup.

Let's just kill all the butterflies, make sure there isn't an accident somewhere.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It is when they arrest the wrong person, which happens far more than you'd think. I'd recommend the book "Just Mercy" by Bryan Stevenson:

Amazon.com: Just Mercy: A Story of Justice and Redemption (9780812984965): Bryan Stevenson: Books

And, of course, all the people who after DNA testing were found innocent of the crime they sat on Death Row for.

I am sure there is, but there is a 500 plus gap.

Frustrating to see cops get killed. Frustrating to see media make this worse. Frustrating to see the President divide the nation instead of bring it together. Before Obama, this nation was coming closer and closer together as one.

Cops are generally great. Was my intent to post random stories of cops doing good in this thread, but not sure I will. Just frustrating. The problem is much bigger than a few bad cops. Government is one reason problem, they help people sustain instead of improve. More reason why too. Way more complex than what the news is saying.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by TCY Junkie

Before Obama, this nation was coming closer and closer together as one.

I think your memory of the Bush years is incomplete.

[cuervo72]

I see lots of folks laying blame for Obama on this. What is this based on, and what is he supposed to do/say? That the #BLM movement is totally unwarranted, the justice system is just fine, and all cops are looking out for everybody's self interests?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I see lots of folks laying blame for Obama on this. What is this based on, and what is he supposed to do/say? That the #BLM movement is totally unwarranted, the justice system is just fine, and all cops are looking out for everybody's self interests?

BLM behavior IS indefensible, at least by rational law-abiding persons.

That Obama has done so, repeatedly, is an indictment to his lack of judgement at best, and quite possibly to his very character (not that his critics really believe there's any of that anyway).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

But how much of that was because of of false testimony as opposed to a dirty cop. Not all innocent people in jail are there because of dirty cops. I'd say it's a pretty small amount.

I was in the LAPD academy for a few months before coming to some realizations that I didn't foresee ahead of time.

How much of that false testimony is because a cop is leaning hard on a suspect or witness because the cop wants to get an arrest? I'd say its far more than a minuscule amount. I'm not saying there is a massive percentage of innocent people in jail, but there is enough for multiple non-profits to be able to get quite a few people released from death row due to DNA evidence showing they didn't do it. Didn't a state suspend the death penalty because DNA evidence was showing a ridiculous amount of people who were killed didn't actually do it?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think your memory of the Bush years is incomplete.

Seriously. What a ridiculous statement.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

BLM behavior IS indefensible, at least by rational law-abiding persons.

That Obama has done so, repeatedly, is an indictment to his lack of judgement at best, and quite possibly to his very character (not that his critics really believe there's any of that anyway).

Jon, can you expand a bit on what actions you feel are indefensible by #BLM? I haven't followed every action that has been attributed to the movement, so I'm curious to hear your viewpoint on it. Do you feel that everything that they're trying to do is indefensible, or just certain aspects?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Jon, can you expand a bit on what actions you feel are indefensible by #BLM? I haven't followed every action that has been attributed to the movement, so I'm curious to hear your viewpoint on it. Do you feel that everything that they're trying to do is indefensible, or just certain aspects?

Virtually all of it.

Remember now, we're talking about something that seems to have begun (in terms of the hashtag identity) in the wake of George Zimmerman.

Zimmerman should have gotten a public service medal afaic, that alone sets me at odds with them from the get-go.

It then seems to have had its next big publicity surge with Ferguson, MO.
Umm ... taking the wrong side again there folks.

And then Eric Garner.
Okay, now they're 0-for-3 on being on the right side. I'd say we can officially declare that as a strong lean.

I see the "movement" as being misnamed. Needs to have something in the name that shows them for what they are: Racist Trash That Back Criminals Over The Law.

What percentage of that is stupidity versus outright evil, honestly, at this point I'm hard pressed to care.

You asked, I answered.
Hope that helps.

[cuervo72]

"Virtually all of it." "Racist Trash." "Stupidity versus outright evil." I see no specifics there, just some name-calling.

Your examples of Zimmerman, Ferguson, and Garner seem to imply that cops or citizens should be able to kill people (in all of these instances black) who either have committed, or appear to be committing a crime. With no questions asked. Is that what you're saying?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

"Virtually all of it." "Racist Trash." "Stupidity versus outright evil." I see no specifics there, just some name-calling.

Your examples of Zimmerman, Ferguson, and Garner seem to imply that cops or citizens should be able to kill people (in all of these instances black) who either have committed, or appear to be committing a crime. With no questions asked. Is that what you're saying?

You do know this is Jon, right?

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

You do know this is Jon, right?

Of course I do. I just want him to state it again.

(I had thought Jon had put me on ignore too, btw.)

edit: Also as just a thought exercise. I know Jon is authoritarian, which could at least somewhat explain Ferguson/Garner. Zimmerman though had no position of authority. That example comes off as being a more racial one, despite Jon's repeated assertions in the past that race has nothing to do with any of this. Especially given that Zimmerman is a total fuckwit and no friend to the law. I also wouldn't mind hearing if people agree with Jon's reasons, or if they can elaborate their own.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Virtually all of it.

Remember now, we're talking about something that seems to have begun (in terms of the hashtag identity) in the wake of George Zimmerman.

Zimmerman should have gotten a public service medal afaic, that alone sets me at odds with them from the get-go.

It then seems to have had its next big publicity surge with Ferguson, MO.
Umm ... taking the wrong side again there folks.

And then Eric Garner.
Okay, now they're 0-for-3 on being on the right side. I'd say we can officially declare that as a strong lean.

I see the "movement" as being misnamed. Needs to have something in the name that shows them for what they are: Racist Trash That Back Criminals Over The Law.

What percentage of that is stupidity versus outright evil, honestly, at this point I'm hard pressed to care.

You asked, I answered.
Hope that helps.

Thanks for that. I disagree with your viewpoint that the excessive violence that was used in each case was necessary, but can see how if you're starting from your viewpoint, it would be hard to see the movement as being proper or necessary.

Do you feel that non-Whites have anything to complain about in relationship to excessive brutality from law enforcement or is it all caused by the actions of the people they're arresting?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Do you feel that non-Whites have anything to complain about in relationship to excessive brutality from law enforcement or is it all caused by the actions of the people they're arresting?

The word "all" -- taken literally -- is a tough one there. I mean, somewhere at some point in time there's a bad/rogue cop driven more by racism in some situation. White on black, black on white, black & white on hispanic, hispanic on non-hispanic, you name it. Probably got a rogue asian cop in the U.S. somewhere too, just in the name of trying to be inclusive here.

If you want to talk about something a bit less absolute though, I believe there's an ENORMOUS victim culture that has poisoned reason/common sense in large swaths of the non-white population in the U.S., combined with a particular penchant for excusing criminal behavior by anyone of color. Afaic that, FAR more than any legitimate concerns, drives the complaints.

[nol]

Important caveat being that support for the police is conditional upon it being paid for by the shakedown of the poor and minorities rather than, you know, having to pay higher taxes to receive more of a government service.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The word "all" -- taken literally -- is a tough one there. I mean, somewhere at some point in time there's a bad/rogue cop driven more by racism in some situation. White on black, black on white, black & white on hispanic, hispanic on non-hispanic, you name it. Probably got a rogue asian cop in the U.S. somewhere too, just in the name of trying to be inclusive here.

If you want to talk about something a bit less absolute though, I believe there's an ENORMOUS victim culture that has poisoned reason/common sense in large swaths of the non-white population in the U.S., combined with a particular penchant for excusing criminal behavior by anyone of color. Afaic that, FAR more than any legitimate concerns, drives the complaints.

Hmmm, ok. Staying less absolute, let's say that your enormous amount is 75% of the harassment of non-Whites. For those 25%, do you feel police accountability should be enforced? And say if that 75% number is incorrect and it's more like 50%. Shouldn't police accountability be enforced for them?

And even if they are criminals, should they be treated worse than White criminals or should all criminals be treated equally poorly?

For me, BLM is standing up for the 25-50% that were improperly harassed. For you, from the two comments I've seen, BLM is standing up for the 50-75% that were properly handled. Is that a fair assessment from your standpoint?

Also, I don't feel BLM is trying to get those changes only for Blacks, but for all people. The name isn't inclusive. I look at it as Father's Day is a day to celebrate fathers, but that doesn't mean the rest of the family is not important. It just means we're focusing on fathers at that time.

If you don't believe any changes are needed, that's a totally different argument.

And thank you for taking the time to respond. You and I differ on our viewpoints, but I have always liked that you are willing to discuss and defend your position.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Hmmm, ok. Staying less absolute, let's say that your enormous amount is 75% of the harassment of non-Whites. For those 25%, do you feel police accountability should be enforced? And say if that 75% number is incorrect and it's more like 50%. Shouldn't police accountability be enforced for them?

I can't really go there, when I'd put the number in the low single digits at worst. Behaviors set off people, not race in & of itself.

And even if they are criminals, should they be treated worse than White criminals or should all criminals be treated equally poorly?

I think my track record on having very low regard for a wide swath of criminal behavior without regard to race is pretty well established. I've long advocated making illegal drug possession a capital crime on the second offense. Just by virtue of my personal acquaintances alone, that'd execute a much higher number of whites than non-whites.

If you don't believe any changes are needed, that's a totally different argument.

I'd like to see changes, but they're largely in the opposite direction of this discussion.

And thank you for taking the time to respond. You and I differ on our viewpoints, but I have always liked that you are willing to discuss and defend your position.

You're welcome. That's something that I've at least tried to be very consistent about -- here, elsewhere online, in "real life" -- for a very long time. I think it's made easier for me by the fact that I rarely explain anything with the intention of trying to change anybody's mind, I'm just trying to answer questions as they're posed.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The word "all" -- taken literally -- is a tough one there. I mean, somewhere at some point in time there's a bad/rogue cop driven more by racism in some situation. White on black, black on white, black & white on hispanic, hispanic on non-hispanic, you name it. Probably got a rogue asian cop in the U.S. somewhere too, just in the name of trying to be inclusive here.

If you want to talk about something a bit less absolute though, I believe there's an ENORMOUS victim culture that has poisoned reason/common sense in large swaths of the non-white population in the U.S., combined with a particular penchant for excusing criminal behavior by anyone of color. Afaic that, FAR more than any legitimate concerns, drives the complaints.

I worked a counter post, but frankly I don't have time to deal with your bullshit opinion. Your views are as useful as a third nipple.

You're a perfect example of the deep south bias toward institutional apartheid and a strong, government supported, caste system.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I worked a counter post, but frankly I don't have time to deal with your bullshit opinion. Your views are as useful as a third nipple.

You're a perfect example of the deep south bias toward institutional apartheid and a strong, government supported, caste system.

You're kidding, right?

[Ryno]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I worked a counter post, but frankly I don't have time to deal with your bullshit opinion. Your views are as useful as a third nipple.

Yes, because your "everyone who doesn't think like me is stupid" posts in every thread are real gems.

[nol]

Originally Posted by Ryno

Yes, because your "everyone who doesn't think like me is stupid" posts in every thread are real gems.

Yeah, everyone knows that on FOFC you can say whatever you want as long as you couch your opinion in some variant of "it's a two-way street" or "gotta hear both sides." No such thing as lying or being wrong here!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I worked a counter post, but frankly I don't have time to deal with your bullshit opinion. Your views are as useful as a third nipple.

You're a perfect example of the deep south bias toward institutional apartheid and a strong, government supported, caste system.

Oh, joy. A chance to hear from one of FOFC's most worthless trolls. What a sad excuse for a human being you are, but can't you find some other way to display it? Some pathetic white guilt to go indulge or something?

[BYU 14]

I have advocated more community policing for so long and this is great example

Officer Tommy Norman Is The Best Cop Ever!!!! - YouTube

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh, joy. A chance to hear from one of FOFC's most worthless trolls. What a sad excuse for a human being you are, but can't you find some other way to display it? Some pathetic white guilt to go indulge or something?

Well...maybe you will get lucky and he will die soon. I mean, isn't that this goes? Someone dies, we find out a couple things about them, then proclaim for all the hear how happy or sad we are about it?

Sigh...

[RomaGoth]

Well it only took 1 page for this thread to go off the rails. That has to be some kind of record, right?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Well it only took 1 page for this thread to go off the rails. That has to be some kind of record, right?

You've been around long enough to know better

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

You're kidding, right?

Let's see, voting access limited to certain groups or greatly restricted for one social class more than another, no or exceptionally limited labor protections, self regulating corporations and regulations that defer to the whims of, in support of corporations, massive need for a low paying, expansive labor force to drive business and money into the region.

The result is a ruling class lead by a government formed from corporate leaders that are intricately intertwined with only the best interest of the corporation and it's leaders at heart.

None of this is shocking. Plantations were large, self regulating corporations that relied on a massive, unprotected, unpaid labor force to provide a quality of life for the plantation owners.

My point is, that no matter where you're at, as long as you're not at the bottom, those below you are simply ungrateful, lazy, drains on society. If they complain about their position, or their treatment by those in a higher class they are denigrated and told to try harder.

It's like the classroom exercise where kids get 10 extra credit points for making a basket in the trash at the front of the class. The kids at the front have a much better chance of making it, and when the kids at the back start to complain and point out the inequity in the opportunity they're met with anger and disdain, that they should simply try harder. The kids at the front don't give two fucks about the kids at the back. They've got their opportunities. While the kids at the back are stuck with their lot and only the very few are able to escape.

That's what I'm talking about. It's about perspective. It's about culture. It's about society. It's so much bigger than pointing fingers at a victim culture, but that answer is cleaner, plays better for the television and is great for scapegoating.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh, joy. A chance to hear from one of FOFC's most worthless trolls. What a sad excuse for a human being you are, but can't you find some other way to display it? Some pathetic white guilt to go indulge or something?

Just for you buddy. Just for you and only on days when your particular brand of bullshit is especially smelly. I mean, I can only tolerate it so long. What the fuck have you been into lately? I mean it's fucking rancid!

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Just for you buddy. Just for you and only on days when your particular brand of bullshit is especially smelly. I mean, I can only tolerate it so long. What the fuck have you been into lately? I mean it's fucking rancid!

I bet if Jon's kid got wrongfully arrested and put on death row, his zero empathy shtick would go out the window. Ah, who am I kidding? He would probably be lecture him about "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" and then flip the switch on Ol' Sparky

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Well it only took 1 page for this thread to go off the rails. That has to be some kind of record, right?

Can't argue that 12 percent of population make up for the majority of murders. If you look at the stats, there should be more blacks killed than whites. The shitty media at work dividing people, it's what sells.

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I have advocated more community policing for so long and this is great example

Officer Tommy Norman Is The Best Cop Ever!!!! - YouTube

Nice video

[TCY Junkie]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think your memory of the Bush years is incomplete.

Bush might not have done a good job at bringing the nation together, but he didn't do things to divide the nation. Like Obama has repeatedly in press releases, done a great job.

[TCY Junkie]

When you vote for free stuff, people lose respect for things. Sad that one of those things is a cops life.