The Sleep Thread

[Julio Riddols]

This is where we will discuss things like:

What the hell is sleep?

How do we achieve it?

What does one do in order to find themselves in that blissful realm more often and more reliably?

Why am I up at 2 AM talking about sleep instead of just getting some?

Let's chat.

[RainMaker]

I've always had crappy sleep patterns. Seem to have trouble during the week and then major crash session on the weekends. Was prescribed Clonazepan to help at night and I'm taking a 0.3 MG of Melatonin which helps.

Doctor had me wear one of those watches for 3 weeks and the data came back alright (albeit schedule was way off). Next up is a sleep study in person in a couple weeks where I guess they'll hook me up to some machine. Maybe I have sleep apnea. I do snore a lot.

Has anyone been diagnosed with it? Wondering how much this will set me back with insurance.

[Julio Riddols]

Docs thought I had apnea before, turned out I had built up a little extra fat under my chin and that was obstructing my airway a lot when I slept. Lost some weight and my snoring issues went away. Also had a lot of luck with those breathe right strips which I wore for a while. Being able to breathe easily through the nose and making sure my head was tilted at the proper angle seemed to help me a lot.

Not sure about the insurance for one of those CPAP machines. I think they generally seem to cover it though. Bad sleep can lead to way worse health issues down the road, so it seems like a good idea.

[Groundhog]

It usually takes me between 1-3 hours to get to sleep, closer to 1-1.5 hrs if I'm being healthy - playing sport, eating decently, not drinking a lot of booze. Podcasts have been a god send for me, and if I put on a podcast with a 30 minute sleep timer and focus on it then I usually don't make it to the sleep timer before I'm out cold without trying.

Dan Carlin's Hardcore history series in particular has been great, then I spend 5 mins the next night finding the part I was up to before I drifted off and start again from there.

[Julio Riddols]

I've found ASMR videos helpful in a similar way, Groundhog. Something I don't need to pay heavy attention to, just a sound that can kind of drone on a bit and put me out.

[CrimsonFox]

to get to sleep I would always play the same CD or album and that would do it.

It has to be somethine I know and like. It has to be something with not too loud of drums...

And it can't be too loud or too soft.

If it is too loud then I can't get to sleep.

Too soft and I am bothered that I can't hear the words.

Occasionally a books on tape would work too

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It usually takes me between 1-3 hours to get to sleep, closer to 1-1.5

Hi-five, shitty sleep buddy! I've been suffering with similar patterns for pretty much all of my life that I can remember.

I've got pretty chronic anxiety, and pinched nerves and muscle spasms AND some spinal joints out of alignment AND hypermobility syndrome (wobbly joints in general)..and some sort of chronic fatigue in there as well, probably. I also long took for granted that I knocked my front teeth out when I was 12 and the repair dentistry was a slight botch job which offset my jaw & bite by some miniscule amount, but I'm starting to realize that might actually be the root of most of my musculoskeletal shit. All of those things do pretty well at resisting the others treatments, so I've spent years trying to find things that will help, and haven't had much luck. As such I'm a pretty crappy resource since I think everything is useless, but I remain interested in hearing about what works for other folks.

[tarcone]

The times I struggle to fall asleep is when my brain wont shut down or my legs have that restless leg syndrome.
I turn on netflix and put in an ear plug. It shows to help me a lot. Distracts me from the other things.

[pbot]

Other end of the spectrum here. I have sleep apnea so I don't have issues falling asleep. I've always been a sound sleeper, and rarely take more than 10-15 minutes to fall asleep, even as a kid/young adult. In the year or two before I was diagnosed, I couldn't stay awake anytime I was sitting still. Rarely would i make it through opening credits of a tv show or movie. Towards the end of the pre-diagnosis time period, the only thing I could watch without dozing off would be football.

It only cost a $50 co-pay for the sleep study back in 2011. One night at the hospital to confirm the apnea diagnosis, and a second night for them to calibrate the machine to a pressure setting that works for me. On average, without a cpap I hold my breath 15 minutes of out every hour I sleep. I also have a tendency to hold my breath when exercising or stressed.

With the cpap, like a whole new world for me. Before I would walk around in a fog for 2-3 hours after waking up, and I never felt any more rested than before I fell asleep. Didn't matter if I slept for 4 hours or 12 hrs. I would wake up tired. With the machine, when the alarm goes off in the morning, I'm pretty much wide awake now.

[Logan]

Oh the joy of this popping up when your previously champion sleeper slowly devolves into a complete mess as she approaches the 4 month mark...

[Butter]

I have "mild" sleep apnea, but found after 3 weeks of trying that I cannot sleep with the mask or any facial apparatus on, so I'm just dealing with it. It's not near the problems that some of you have, I'm sure, so it is not a big deal.

I used to sleep with the radio on, but found that especially annoying songs or odd tones would wake me. My wife and I found that we both appreciate a box fan running all night, so now I have problems if I don't have white noise of some kind in the background. Going on trips, we have to bring a box fan... makes it harder when we don't. It helps drown out any odd noise coming from anywhere else in the house, or in the neighborhood. The downside would be, I'm pretty sure someone could rob me blind in the dead of night and I wouldn't know the difference. That's what dogs are for, I guess.

[Kodos]

Historically, I have had a lot of sleep issues. I take a long time to get to sleep, and if I wake up in the night, it often costs me 2-3 hours of trying to get back to sleep. My mind gets going and then I'm screwed. Lately, I've been on a good streak. I've found that going to bed at the same time each day (within a half hour or so) has helped me. I play the sound of waves crashing on a beach through my ipod on a little speaker system, and it helps me fall asleep pretty well. I tried meditation music, but I find myself trying to anticipate the tune and it keeps me up. It also helps that I get up early to run or exercise most mornings. That way, I am dead tired by the time I go to sleep at night. I also have cut caffeine way down. I try to keep the lights low at the end of the night, and have a nightlight in the bathroom so that I don't have to turn on a light.

Listening to CT & Jivin on the train home usually helps me fall asleep pretty quickly. It must be the soothing tones of CT!

[Arles]

I did the sleep test 3 years ago and got a massive reading on the CPAP (like a 14). It was like sleeping with a wind tunnel on my face with the mask. Even with the ramp up, I could never adjust to it. So, I've lost about 15 pounds and sleep on my side. That seems to do the trick. I do have some anxiety with it, so I take trazadone and occasionally a benadryl to help fall asleep. Under that setup, I usually fall asleep after 15-20 minutes and wake up 1-2 times during the night (usually fall right back asleep). I'm sure things would be better with a mask, but I just couldn't ever adapt to it. I still snore sometimes - especially if I roll over to my back. But, if I stay on my side, it's not terrible. I'm hoping as I continue to work out and lose weight, it will get better.

[AnalBumCover]

Originally Posted by pbot

Other end of the spectrum here. I have sleep apnea so I don't have issues falling asleep. I've always been a sound sleeper, and rarely take more than 10-15 minutes to fall asleep, even as a kid/young adult. In the year or two before I was diagnosed, I couldn't stay awake anytime I was sitting still. Rarely would i make it through opening credits of a tv show or movie. Towards the end of the pre-diagnosis time period, the only thing I could watch without dozing off would be football.

It only cost a $50 co-pay for the sleep study back in 2011. One night at the hospital to confirm the apnea diagnosis, and a second night for them to calibrate the machine to a pressure setting that works for me. On average, without a cpap I hold my breath 15 minutes of out every hour I sleep. I also have a tendency to hold my breath when exercising or stressed.

With the cpap, like a whole new world for me. Before I would walk around in a fog for 2-3 hours after waking up, and I never felt any more rested than before I fell asleep. Didn't matter if I slept for 4 hours or 12 hrs. I would wake up tired. With the machine, when the alarm goes off in the morning, I'm pretty much wide awake now.

This is me, in a nutshell.

[Julio Riddols]

Interesting seeing how many of us have various issues with sleep.

My GF sleeps like a fuckin log without even really having to try and it almost pisses me off, heh.

For me, my trouble sleeping generally revolves around my mind continuing to think about things, so I find that someone with a droning voice or something that maintains a rhythm without getting too loud helps a lot. When I was younger, the Crash Test Dummies album 'God Shuffled His Feet' was excellent for this. It was a really well produced album and that dudes voice has that baritone depth to it that seems to work.

Now I generally find myself going back and forth through several avenues, sometimes I am in a MST3K phase, sometimes it's Seinfeld, sometimes its The Simpsons. For a while it was Being John Malkovich. I would fall asleep at the exact same spot every time I put on that movie. Eventually I have one interrupted night and then I instantly lose faith in whatever my current system is for a while. Recently its been the show Party Down.

Learning to let go when trying to sleep and just leave my thoughts behind is the hardest thing for me. Finding something to occupy that space in my head seems to be the key unless I decide to go with pharmaceutical sleep aids. I guess that's a form of anxiety, but I guess its minor enough that it doesn't register as such because I'm used to way more intense versions of it.

[Easy Mac]

I previously snored loudly when I slept, but that seems to have abated a bit with weight loss. I do have to wait to try to fall asleep until my wife is asleep, as she states that my snoring does still keep her up if I go to bed first. When I was younger it took me hours to fall asleep, now, I generally stop browsing the internet around 11 and fall asleep within 20 minutes, sometimes later. About once a month it will take me forever to fall asleep and I'll get 2-3 hours of sleep.

Most nights, my dog will wake me up 1-3 times to go outside. I assume he's just bored. I usually use the first of those times to go to the bathroom. Otherwise I fall back asleep within a few minutes 95% of the time. My wife wakes at 5:30, which wakes me up, and I normally drift in and out for the next 1/2 hour until I get up.

Every 3-4 weeks I'll have the beginnings of a panic attack in the middle of the night, due either to an upset stomach, feeling too hot, or just randomly. That will keep me up a few hours and I just browse the internet until I finally try to go to sleep.

I never sleep past 6:30 on Saturdays because the dog wants to eat. Never past 6 on Sunday's because we go to church too damn early.

I actually took 2 naps Sunday because my wife took the child on a playdate all day. I napped in between the dryer buzzing me awake. It was great.

[rjolley]

I have been using a CPAP for a long time now. It took a bit to get used to initially, but after a week or so, I adjusted. The difference has been night and day. Before I started using it, I would be tired during the day. Afterwards, that all improved. Rarely am I sleepy in the afternoon. Rarely do I fall asleep in front of the tv. Edit: Fortunately, the sleep studies, CPAP, and supplies have always been covered by insurance.

My biggest problem now is going to bed. I'm usually up until 1:30-2a doing nothing...maybe playing a video game, maybe watching tv, but almost always saying I should've gone to bed 2 hours ago. If I could get over that hurdle and go to bed between 11-12a every night, that would be much better.

[Icy]

I have a very stressing life right now, with a very demanding job managing my online marketing company with 150 employees, with long working days schedulle and lots of traveling around the world, plus a wife and two kids, but I think I have a sensor in my brain that just disconnects as soon as I lay horizontal.

My trick since I was a kid was to start imaginating something positive as soon as I got in bed, like that I was a top football player or stuff like that. I also refuse to talk about anything negative or about any trouble with my wife before going to to bed, whatever we need to talk can be done either while watching tv before going to bed or when we wake up, but never when I'm already in the bed.

She is the other way around, takes a lot to get asleep as when she goes to bed, she starts doing a mental resume of the day, the troubles etc. I think that is the main issue for a lot of people with sleep issues, not being able to disconnect and to put the problems apart until the next day.

On the other hand, I have wondered a few times about suffering apnea. I usually wake up early to run before going to work and after yeas doing it, still hate it and can't get used to it. When I wake up, I'm always tired, like if I didn't have enough sleep. I'm a bit over weight and snore a bit, not very loud, for what my wife says, plus I sleep lying on my back that doesn't help either.

I have asked her if she feels that's i stop to breath while i sleep and she says no but I'm not totally sure if she knows what I mean and thinks I'm paranoid about it.

I should ask for an apnea test I guess.

[tarcone]

I sometimes play a football game in my head to help me shut down the other thoughts. It helps. Im always the QB. But I throw the ball to myself a lot. Probably my number 1 target is me.
This doesnt help as much as it used to.

[rjolley]

One thing the doctor told me when I first was diagnosed with sleep apnea is that, for me, it could have more to do with my build and the way I sleep than it does with my weight.

I played basketball up through college and lifted weight as part of training. During the time from really starting to lift weights, I gained 40 or so pounds of muscle. That included an increase in the size of my neck. According to the doctor, that increase could cause me to have apnea even if I got back to my playing weight.

When your neck size increases, the air pathway does not. Due to this, when you sleep on your back, it's easier for the pathway to become blocked, causing you to stop breathing, start awake to breathe, then go back to sleep (apnea). Sleeping on my side and sleeping more upright definitely helps if I don't have my machine.

Reggie White's passing in 2004, potentially from complications related to sleep apnea, caused me to get a sleep study. I believe I was in the doctor's office within a week asking about the study. Didn't know my snoring and sleepiness during the day was a sign of problems until then. Thought I just wasn't sleeping well and tried to make adjustments. Getting tested and getting used to the machine definitely was worth it for me, especially thinking about being around for my kids.

[pbot]

Originally Posted by Icy

I should ask for an apnea test I guess.

Based upon my own experience, I strongly recommend anyone who even thinks they might have sleep apnea get tested. Its the easiest test ever...just sleep. Ironically enough for me, the only two times I really remember having trouble getting to sleep were the two nights of my testing/calibration.

A co-worker just got tested a couple months ago, and I guess now they send you home with a monitor to run the test at home. My test was in a sleep study center at a local hospital, the room was more like a hotel than a hospital.

[Silver Owl]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I take a long time to get to sleep, and if I wake up in the night, it often costs me 2-3 hours of trying to get back to sleep. My mind gets going and then I'm screwed.

This is me except the taking a long time to get to sleep. I wake up and can't get back to sleep because my mind starts thinking of various things.
Someone suggested boiling bananas and drinking the water an hour before bed will help. I've done this for a couple weeks and it does work. I still wake up but I fall back asleep within a few minutes. I missed a couple days and noticed I had trouble that night.

[PilotMan]

Meditation is where it's at. Even when I have to sleep before a red eye, and I"m going to bed at 5 to get up at 11, it takes planning and process in order to make that happen. If I'm having problems sleeping I find that it's almost entirely mental and a brutal battle against myself to do what I need to do.

Sleep is a big deal in my career. Non-prescription sleep aids are frequently abused in this industry.

The FAA is now mandating sleep studies for pilots who are too fat in an effort to diagnose sleep apnea and prevent situations where pilots are operating at less than optimum. They haven't gotten down to me yet, but I can't imagine that I have it. I do snore, but I can get up and stay up, and rarely feel like I need to sleep, or can't wake up. I sleep hard and generally with no issues, but it still scares the crap out of me that I would have to carry a damn cpap machine.

[molson]

I never have a problem falling asleep, I can do it within 10 minutes 99% of the time, but I also never sleep through the night. I'm aware of everything going on, something as simple as the dog or cat walking in the room or a car driving by. It doesn't bother me, because I can always fall back asleep in a few minutes. And I always found it somehow unsettling on the rare occasion when I am actually unconscious for several hours straight. I used to wake up and around 2AM and then just get out of bed and hang out for a while - watch TV, read, play on the internet. Not because I couldn't get back to sleep, I kind of just liked the feeling of being awake when the world was asleep. (I read later that this type of sleep pattern was pretty common around 300 years ago in Europe - people referred to "first sleep" and "second sleep")

I wonder if this trait caused my weird reaction to eating some weed brownies in Oregon a few months back. I never smoke, but was hanging at on the ocean, the dispensary was there, I gave it a shot. I didn't feel much, it was mildly pleasant I guess, but when I woke up early in the morning I was very confused and could barely walk when I got out of bed. I tried to go to the bathroom, remember concentrating on each step, and then after a few minutes, realized I walked in the wrong direction away from the bathroom all the way to the opposite side of the room.

A lot of time had passed, I don't think I could have been high anymore, I guess it was my body's reaction to the odd occurrence of uninterrupted sleep.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by molson

A lot of time had passed, I don't think I could have been high anymore, I guess it was my body's reaction to the odd occurrence of uninterrupted sleep.

FWIW, edible cannabis can take up to a couple hours until onset, and can last for up to 12 hours. As such it's a lot harder to control dosage, compared to smoking which is instant and is usually over in 2 hours. As such a lot of overdosing issues occur with novice users who can be attracted to the apparent ease-of-use of edibles.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

FWIW, edible cannabis can take up to a couple hours until onset, and can last for up to 12 hours. As such it's a lot harder to control dosage, compared to smoking which is instant and is usually over in 2 hours. As such a lot of overdosing issues occur with novice users who can be attracted to the apparent ease-of-use of edibles.

I'll second this. I'm a pretty regular smoker (keeping on topic, smoking about an hour before bed is my sweet spot). But I tried some cookies a year or so back that had about the same experience molson had. The next morning was not fun.

My college dorm roommate was a sleep with the TV on guy, so I fell into that pattern but I don't think it helps. Reading can help but if what I'm reading is good, sometimes it is hard to put it down.

Lately I've been doing Podcasts. This might be the best for me. I can get in my preferred sleeping position on my side.

I've also been sleeping better since I was prescribed Sertraline/Zoloft. Hard to sleep when anxiety has your mind racing at night. Then the depression the next day knocks you out and the whole process repeats.

I'll take melatonin when I need to shift my sleep schedule or get to bed earlier than normal. But I don't like to take it regularly as I found I built a tolerance to it.

I use the Sleep Cycle app to track my sleep, too. Alcohol is the one thing that hinders a good night's sleep for me. It may knock me out but the sleep is always restless. Plus it's not the best to be getting drunk when on Sertraline. Couple drinks? No big deal. But more than that can have some bad consequences. So I've been limiting my alcohol consumption and better sleep has been a positive side affect.