You're on the clock with the #1 pick in the NBA Draft....

[stevew]

Oden's back to avenge us! Check out those dunks!

(And he'll get a ring before Durant)

[Groundhog]

Dang, he looked pretty good for a guy who hasn't hooped for longer than an entire four year college career. I hope he can stay healthy.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I hope he can stay healthy.

So did Portland.

[Logan]

Interesting re-reading this thread how the Oden people (myself included) were basing so much of that opinion on how hard it is to find a good center in the league, and you go center over forward every time all else being equal. And generally speaking, the league has moved away from having traditional centers.

[jbergey22]

The two things that couldnt be figured into this debate were Durants work ethic and Odens inability to stay on the court.

I talked up Durant quite a bit in this thread but he is better than I ever imagined. I didnt expect the all around game he has.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by Logan

Interesting re-reading this thread how the Oden people (myself included) were basing so much of that opinion on how hard it is to find a good center in the league, and you go center over forward every time all else being equal. And generally speaking, the league has moved away from having traditional centers.

I don't know that the league has moved away from them, but that they're so damned difficult to find. When you talk about truly dominant big men, Tim Duncan may be the last guy drafted who fit that bill (and he played PF for many years).

Embiid certainly has the raw skill set, but then again so did Dwight Howard and I don't think he lived up to his full potential.

[Julio Riddols]

I think Oden was well on his way to becoming a force in the league before his body rebelled.

[nol]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The two things that couldnt be figured into this debate were Durants work ethic and Odens inability to stay on the court.

And also the Sonics/Thunder management. I still think an organization like the Kings or the Wizards would have found a way to screw Durant up if they had landed him.

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I think Oden was well on his way to becoming a force in the league before his body rebelled.

Yeah, advanced stats weren't as prevalent back then, but they really loved Oden. In the first 20 something games of his 2nd season (age 22) before he got hurt, his Win Shares per 48 would have placed him 8th in the league, between Duncan and Chris Paul. His PER was around the top 10 as well; he was averaging 17-13 with 3.5 blocks per 36 minutes on 60% from the field and 76% from the line.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Embiid certainly has the raw skill set, but then again so did Dwight Howard and I don't think he lived up to his full potential.

Problem with Howard was always going to be that his game was about 80% athleticism. You hope that a guy like that will over time develop the skills to match, but I think the injuries robbed him of that athleticism a little early. He's still a dominant inside player, but he's not the "next-Shaq" which he seemed destined to be at one stage.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Matthean

So did Portland.

Unfortunately they seemed to have a medical/rehab team on-par with a developing nation.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Problem with Howard was always going to be that his game was about 80% athleticism. You hope that a guy like that will over time develop the skills to match, but I think the injuries robbed him of that athleticism a little early. He's still a dominant inside player, but he's not the "next-Shaq" which he seemed destined to be at one stage.

Earlier than time itself would have robbed him of his athleticism? Sure.

But if he isn't the next Shaq, that's on his unwillingness to work on those skills he needed to develop. He has been in the league now for eight years or whatever. He should be able to go further than 5 feet out to make a shot by now.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Earlier than time itself would have robbed him of his athleticism? Sure.

But if he isn't the next Shaq, that's on his unwillingness to work on those skills he needed to develop. He has been in the league now for eight years or whatever. He should be able to go further than 5 feet out to make a shot by now.

I agree with you 100%. I guess he figured he'd coast on athleticism for now, then worry about stuff like post moves once he hits 30.

It's good to see that Griffin appears to be maturing a little this year, as last year it was looking like he'd be another one.

[cartman]

Fun thread to revisit every once in a while.

[tarcone]

Wow. Glad a bunch of you are not NBA GMs.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Interesting re-reading this thread how the Oden people (myself included) were basing so much of that opinion on how hard it is to find a good center in the league, and you go center over forward every time all else being equal. And generally speaking, the league has moved away from having traditional centers.

.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Logan

Interesting re-reading this thread how the Oden people (myself included) were basing so much of that opinion on how hard it is to find a good center in the league, and you go center over forward every time all else being equal. And generally speaking, the league has moved away from having traditional centers.

Yup. Even if Oden had turned into Shaq, Durant was still the right call in hindsight because of the smallball revolution, and none of us would have predicted that when they came out.

[nol]

Oden had the potential to be the kind of player who would single-handedly change how teams put together their roster. The Warriors have three players in Green, KD, and Iguodala who are more suited to the challenge of slowing down LeBron than just about anyone in the league, but if teams needed both a "LeBron stopper" and an "Oden stopper" to realistically compete at least one of those guys would have to go.

On the offensive glass, a healthy Oden would be doing to most teams what someone like Tristan Thompson does to the Celtics, and he'd probably render useless any debate about Defensive Player of the Year.

[Atocep]

Assuming Oden had stayed healthy I stand by taking him over Durant. Durant is a great, great player. If Oden had reached his potential peak we'd be calling Rudy Gobert a poor man's Greg Oden. You can absolutely build around that in today's NBA.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Assuming Oden had stayed healthy I stand by taking him over Durant. Durant is a great, great player. If Oden had reached his potential peak we'd be calling Rudy Gobert a poor man's Greg Oden. You can absolutely build around that in today's NBA.

You can certainly build upon that but to take Odens potential talent if he didnt get hurt over a probable top 20 NBA player in history seems a bit stubborn. If Durant does 5 more seasons of this level he has to be considered a top 20 player of All-Time.

[nol]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You can certainly build upon that but to take Odens potential talent if he didnt get hurt over a probable top 20 NBA player in history seems a bit stubborn. If Durant does 5 more seasons of this level he has to be considered a top 20 player of All-Time.

Yeah, and Oden was even better than that. Also Durant doesn't need nearly that much to be considered a top 20 player of all time:

If he averages 25 a game over the next 5 seasons he'd be 8th on the all-time scoring list at age 33; he'll probably go down as the 2nd-best pure scorer of all time after Jordan.

Durant led the league in scoring at a younger age than Larry Bird was in Bird's rookie season.

If he hadn't gotten injured this year, he very well could have won his 2nd MVP award (which only 13 players have done, and I'd already consider him better than a few of them) and will certainly have a chance to win another in the next few years.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by nol

Yeah, and Oden was even better than that.

Better than what?

[nol]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Better than what?

Kevin Durant, who certainly was understood to have the potential to be a top 20 player of all time during his own freshman year of college.

[jbergey22]

Yeah, Harold Miner was thought to be the next Michael Jordan at one time also. The problem is if you dont prove anything it is kind of hard to believe any of the hype. Greg Oden will go down as a very unlucky player that was a huge bust. Hard to spin it any other way.

[nol]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Yeah, Harold Miner was thought to be the next Michael Jordan at one time also. The problem is if you dont prove anything it is kind of hard to believe any of the hype. Greg Oden will go down as a very unlucky player that was a huge bust. Hard to spin it any other way.

By that logic Bill Walton was a huge bust too, but Oden had even higher potential than Walton (considering that he was just as good Walton at age 22 in the NBA, even after missing two seasons due to injury and being noticeably less athletic than he was during high school or college) or any other player whose sporting career was cut short by injuries.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by nol

By that logic Bill Walton was a huge bust too, but Oden had even higher potential than Walton (considering that he was just as good Walton at age 22 in the NBA, even after missing two seasons due to injury and being noticeably less athletic than he was during high school or college) or any other player whose sporting career was cut short by injuries.

Yeah, like I said Harold Miner many people said had great potential as well. Potential gets a lot of great coaches fired. We dont really know what Oden's true potential was because if it was as high as you claim, it was never close to being reached on a NBA court. Id take Durant every time and laugh at the people hoping for Oden to reach his potential.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Yeah, like I said Harold Miner many people said had great potential as well. Potential gets a lot of great coaches fired. We dont really know what Oden's true potential was because if it was as high as you claim it was never close to being reached on a NBA court. Id take Durant every time and laugh at the people hoping for Oden to reach his potential.

As 20 and 21 year olds there wasn't much difference between Durant and Oden on a per minute basis. That's difference between Minor in this case. Minor was awful in the NBA l.

[nol]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Yeah, like I said Harold Miner many people said had great potential as well. Potential gets a lot of great coaches fired. We dont really know what Oden's true potential was because if it was as high as you claim, it was never close to being reached on a NBA court. Id take Durant every time and laugh at the people hoping for Oden to reach his potential.

No, even when only looking at college stats you could see that Miner was nowhere near as good as Jordan (and obviously NBA teams didn't think so either considering that Miner was drafted 12th and Jordan was drafted 3rd, with one of the players drafted above him being a top-10 player of all time in his own right) if you knew enough to look at pace, efficiency, and defensive ability.