Mandela Effect

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by dave731

I haven't seen many sports Mandela affects. I double checked though to make sure Clemson was still national champions.

But, that's just it. No hard-and-fast facts like that are eligible for this whole thing. Nobody mis-remembers stuff en masse like "who won the game?"

What people collectively mis-remember is the thing like "who was fighting that time when the guy in the glider thing flew into the boxing ring?" (Off the top of my head) Lots of people might recall there was something like that that happened, but the specific attachment to the named boxers is unimportant and trivial... so it's a loose memory. So, someone posits an answer that seems to make sense to you, and you might drift right to "YES, THAT'S DEFINITELY IT."

Just like when you're looking for your car keys, and you contemplate that they might be sitting on the coffee table... you mind helpfull conjures up a crystal clear and compelling mental image of the keys sitting right there. And you're shocked when they are not.

Our minds find shortcuts all the time to help us process the overwhelming amount of shit we take in. That leads to imperfections. Digging around in the imperfections is interesting and fun, but hardly life-changing.

[CrimsonFox]

I remember the Bill Murray movie "Meatballs" and when they are doing one of the competitions...I think one of the swimming ones? There is a song playing with what sounds like Bill Murray singing, "C'mon go team go yeah fight team fight....but that don't make you a meatball!" were lyrics...

I have the DVD now and that song is NO WHERE ON IT.

I can't find any links to what I remember either.

I did not dream this. I can only assume they lost the rights to it or something and had to change the song? BUt I seriously can't find what's it my head.

[dave731]

Not sure about Meatballs but the idea that hard facts are not eligible is ridiculous.

I have an undergraduate in Sports and Health Science and a Masters in Sports Management. At no point have I ever learned the heart was in the center of your chest...always the left side of your chest cavity. At no point did I learn the kidneys were anywhere other than the lower back. The eye sockets have always been hollow...no bony process behind the eyes! If I had to take a test on these things now, I would probably miss those questions. I have taken a number of Anatomy and physiology classes with high grades in everything. I graduated with honors from HS and both degrees. I know this stuff and it has changed. As crazy as it sounds...

The JFK 4 seater car was a cold hard fact for me as well...along with countless others.

"as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal"

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by dave731

Not sure about Meatballs but the idea that hard facts are not eligible is ridiculous.

I have an undergraduate in Sports and Health Science and a Masters in Sports Management. At no point have I ever learned the heart was in the center of your chest...always the left side of your chest cavity. At no point did I learn the kidneys were anywhere other than the lower back. The eye sockets have always been hollow...no bony process behind the eyes! If I had to take a test on these things now, I would probably miss those questions. I have taken a number of Anatomy and physiology classes with high grades in everything. I graduated with honors from HS and both degrees. I know this stuff and it has changed. As crazy as it sounds...

The JFK 4 seater car was a cold hard fact for me as well...along with countless others.

"as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal"

What's really freaky is that this used to be called the Mancala Effect.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by dave731

Not sure about Meatballs but the idea that hard facts are not eligible is ridiculous.

I have an undergraduate in Sports and Health Science and a Masters in Sports Management. At no point have I ever learned the heart was in the center of your chest...always the left side of your chest cavity. At no point did I learn the kidneys were anywhere other than the lower back. The eye sockets have always been hollow...no bony process behind the eyes! If I had to take a test on these things now, I would probably miss those questions. I have taken a number of Anatomy and physiology classes with high grades in everything. I graduated with honors from HS and both degrees. I know this stuff and it has changed. As crazy as it sounds...

The JFK 4 seater car was a cold hard fact for me as well...along with countless others.

"as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal"

So are you saying that a round earth is a Mandela effect too, as they used to teach that the earth was flat?

[dave731]

Originally Posted by AlexB

So are you saying that a round earth is a Mandela effect too, as they used to teach that the earth was flat?

Yea, because that's exactly what I just described. No, that's not a Mandela Effect because it can easily be verified they taught the earth was flat. I'm stating that everything now shows the anatomy stuff to have always been taught this way when that's not the way it has always been taught. People dismiss my memory of the maps the same way when I can't find the maps I used to look at anywhere. They supposedly never existed.

[QuikSand]

So, let's take the JFK convertible. For some reason, the supposed "question" whether it was an unusual 6-seater or a common 4-seater was, to you, a central fact. Not a minor bit of the story, but something important and very memorable well before this supposed controversy occurred. Like, if you were relating these historic and tragic events to someone, you'd definitely make a point of noting that fact..."and, folks, this is a standard four-seater convertible car, not a somewhat unusual design for extra people in a parade setting or anything like that, just a run of the mill four-seater convertible, got it?"

Okay, great. So, in your crystal clear version of events from before these sneaky cosmological events happened, presumably you still have Governor Connally sitting in the seat right ahead of JFK. Since his presence there is pretty much required to make the story conform to what everyone knows happened (magic bullet theory or not, he was definitely hit), that's the sort of fact that your Mandela Effect tends to stay away from.

(Aside: reality tells us he's in the "jump seat" in the middle row of seating with his wife on his left, and that the jump seat doesn't have the high back that might leave a cloudy impression on the number of seats in the actual car)

So, surely Mrs. Connally is in your version of the car, too, as formal events would dictate, and she was accompanying the party all day. Right? Does your pre-Mandela version of events have her driving the presidential limo, then? Is that what you're going to go with? She shoves the Secret Service and official driver out of the way and says "I got this."

Or does your psychological need to cling to this "I'm 100% sure it's a 4-person car" argument now force you to conclude "no, she must have stayed home and skipped this event, and the Governor just called shotgun and rode up front with the driver." Are you seriously going to hang your hat on that? That's what your "definitely a four seater" leads you to.

And then the goblins who rearrange history also managed to tidy things up like Connally himself testifying to the Warren Commission that "...then we got into the car as we had customarily done at each of the stops, and Mrs. Connally and I got on the jump seats, and with the President and Mrs. Kennedy on the back seat, and took off for the long motorcade downtown."

How far down the rabbit hole are you gonna let a few YouTube videos take you? Your absolute 100% certainty over a totally incidental part of a decades-old event is making itself a serious bulwark here.




(and yes, to those keeping score, this is definitely the blackjack thread redux)

[dave731]

Connaly in the front passenger seat and the same driver...his wife was not in the vehicle at all.

My certainty is in all the things I know to be true. Dolly had braces!

What is the blackjack thread? I missed it...

[dave731]

This is what MY world has ALWAYS looked like!

[Shkspr]

Why are we feeding the fucking troll?

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Why are we feeding the fucking troll?

Yea...that's what I am. You caught me...I waited over 6 years to strike.

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by dave731

This is what MY world has ALWAYS looked like!

That is a skewed angle, north isn't straight up. Washington isn't further north than the rest of the US

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Ryche

That is a skewed angle, north isn't straight up. Washington isn't further north than the rest of the US

My reference was primarily to the position of South America...thought that was obvious?

[dave731]

[cuervo72]

Congrats, you've confirmed the existence of Photoshop.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Ryche

That is a skewed angle, north isn't straight up. Washington isn't further north than the rest of the US

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Congrats, you've confirmed the existence of Photoshop.

It was a NASA satellite image and we all know those are all photoshopped anyway right?

[Ryche]

Originally Posted by dave731

My reference was primarily to the position of South America...thought that was obvious?

That is the point. North on the map is not centered. Rotate it so it is and South America will be further right relative to North America

[corbes]

If you think that's how the western hemisphere looks, you didn't play enough Sid Meier's Pirates! when you were a kid.

[cuervo72]

One good thing coming from this thread at least is it's getting me to look for vintage maps, which are interesting from both artistic and historical perspectives.

Here's the "first dedicated map of the Pacific to be printed" for example, drawn in 1589.

Maris Pacifici - Wikipedia

[Lonnie]

And Florida still points at Columbia.

[OldGiants]

These are all the work of

Department of Diachronic Operations

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

One good thing coming from this thread at least is it's getting me to look for vintage maps, which are interesting from both artistic and historical perspectives.

Here's the "first dedicated map of the Pacific to be printed" for example, drawn in 1589.

Maris Pacifici - Wikipedia

And we though the Titanic was big. Boats used to be a quarter the size of South America.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by dave731

What is the blackjack thread? I missed it...

It was a fun thread here a while back, where one pinhead kept spouting his indefensible ideas despite all the logic and evidence surrounding him. Fun times.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

It was a fun thread here a while back, where one pinhead kept spouting his indefensible ideas despite all the logic and evidence surrounding him. Fun times.

Doh!

[JPhillips]

I remember when I was a kid being taught that Texas was south of New Mexico, the Yucatan didn't exist, and there was a state between Houston and Louisiana.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by dave731

I haven't seen many sports Mandela affects. I double checked though to make sure Clemson was still national champions.

I'm certain that Miami beat Ohio State for the 2002 National Championship. I even remember Jarret Payton being interviewed on the field after the game! But now when I go look, I see that apparently Ohio State won the game?

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I remember when I was a kid being taught that Texas was south of New Mexico, the Yucatan didn't exist, and there was a state between Houston and Louisiana.

Well one out of three isn't bad (and yes, the overwhelming majority of Texas is east of New Mexico, or maybe southeast to be even more pedantic, but there is a sizeable chunk of Texas that is indeed south of New Mexico).

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I remember when I was a kid being taught that Texas was south of New Mexico, the Yucatan didn't exist, and there was a state between Houston and Louisiana.

How can you be taught about something not existing? A state between Houston and Louisiana? I guess you could fit Delaware between Houston and Louisiana.

[PilotMan]

Its called the law of primacy. Its important in teaching because the first thing someone learns is more likely to stick with them. Therefore if its wrong the instructor is to blame and can hinder further learning. Its not a mystery.

Law of primacy in persuasion - Wikipedia

[dave731]

Michael Jackson's Smooth Criminal has always ended

"You've been hit by, you've been STRUCK by a smooth criminal!"

I'm certain this is the correct lyric.

That crappy Jewel song "Who will save your soul?" was always a singular soul...not plural.

I'm in Atlantic City tonight and tomorrow night and was talking to a coworker last night...pretty sure I killed his buzz with the amount of info I dropped on him but he remembered everything the same way I do.

#notcrazy

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by dave731

This is what MY world has ALWAYS looked like!

Please look at the Texas/Mexico area of the map

[albionmoonlight]

OH! I've got one! I tasted my kids' Apple Jacks yesterday, and thought "Ugh, who put cinnamon in these?" I asked my wife, and it turns out that in y'all's universe, Apple Jacks have always had cinnamon.

Or I'm just misremembering. But I sure don't remember cinnamon in Apple Jacks.

[Ksyrup]

Thought this was an interesting read.

Losers are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories, study finds

[corbes]

A music teacher of mine used to emphasize over and over and over that we must play the music as it is written on the page, and not as we remember it or think it sounds, for our memories for music are so malleable.

Seems like a relevant data point. I can't imagine telling him, no, my own memory is correct, it is the sheet music itself that has changed. He'd have thrown a music stand at me and denounced, with fury and derision, my arrogance and narcissism.

[dave731]

Mike Tyson bites ear off real video - YouTube

Think about Tyson biting Holyfields ear and how it happened. Then go watch the original footage. This is nothing like I remember outside of Tyson biting Holyfields ear.

[EagleFan]

Nope, just as it was.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Nope, just as it was.

Gahh...So we really believe that Tyson bit his ear and they docked him 2 points and restarted the fight. Mills ended it after the first bite...it was never restarted!

I would be the absolute worst Trivial Pursuit player now...

[corbes]

He was disqualified after the second bite.

[dave731]

So nobody remembers Tyson turning to the side and spitting a chunk of ear out.

[corbes]

Yes, he did that. But the fight didn't end then.

If only there was a crowd-sourced website that provided an account of what happened that night . . . .

Evander Holyfield vs. Mike Tyson II - Wikipedia

[dave731]

Originally Posted by corbes

Yes, he did that. But the fight didn't end then.

If only there was a crowd-sourced website that provided an account of what happened that night . . . .

Evander Holyfield vs. Mike Tyson II - Wikipedia

If only the video matched my memory of the way it actually happened.

[albionmoonlight]

I admit, it is kind of fun to go back-and-forth with this. But I have realized that the people arguing for the Mandela effect have actually made an argument that is so incapable of refuting, that there's really no discussion happening at all.

The idea that other people's minds can be hacked is what shuts this down. Someone says, "I remember it this way." Someone else comes back with objective evidence showing that it did not happen that way. The Mandela person simply says, "Well, yeah, reality has been hacked. That's why the objective evidence and my memory differ. . And my subjective memory is greater than objective reality." Then you say, "but my subjecive memory agrees with objective reality. So now we have my memory and reality versus your memory, so you must be wrong, right?"

He simply say, "no, your memory is one of the things that's been hacked."

So that's it then. Kind of boring, really.

[dave731]

Yea...prob right. I should give up trying to warn everyone that Satanists are supernaturally altering reality and rewriting the Bible to prepare the way for the antichrist crusade.

Man, when I put it that way...

[QuikSand]

Dave's not here

[dave731]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Dave's not here

Gotta go check and make sure Tommy said that...

Edit: Did you know that was one of the things that had changed? It's "Dave's not here man"...but he supposedly never said man. Argh!!!

[mckerney]

I'd remembered Jon Lovitz playing Bill McNeal's replacement named Max Lewis on NewsRadio but it turns out on the show he was actually the suicidal Michael Johnson who was going to jump from a ledge just outside the WNYX offices.