Mandela Effect

[dave731]

I've recently gone down this rabbit hole after stumbling across a Youtube video breaking down the end of Moonraker (Jaws sees Dolly and they both smile with metal mouths). However, this is not the reality we are living in now. Apparently, Dolly never had braces in her mouth despite me knowing 100% unequivocally that she did when I first watched this. It's the REASON the scene works for crying out loud. My initial thought was CGI messing up the scene for some unknown reason. That is not the case...

At this point, I feel like I am losing my mind.

As a coach, I have memorized the Lord's prayer and recited it countless times...it is not the same in the KJV Bible as what I remember.

I know for a fact the Pierce Brosnan turned down the offer to be debriefed at Gitmo to make out with Natayla in the field. Not in this reality...

It's a beautiful day in THE neighborhood...NOT IN THIS REALITY!

These I KNOW to be facts guys...a lot of the other stuff I could be wrong on but I've watched Goldeneye many times...it was my favorite Bond movie.

Somebody tell me I'm not going crazy...I'm not a "conspiracy nut" except when it comes to SEC recruiting but WTH is going on?

[Easy Mac]

berenstein

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Memory is a hell of a thing. Luke I am your father, look that up..

oh and Interview with a vampire

[Groundhog]

Interview With the Vampire and the Monopoly guy were both a bit of a shock to me. But man, a few too many tin foil hats down this YouTube rabbit hole...

[dave731]

Get your damn dirty hands off my Coke Zero!! - Front Office Football Central

So you guys honestly think the label has ALWAYS said Coca-Cola Zero??

[Groundhog]

I would have said the label says "Coke Zero" off the top of my head, but that one doesn't surprise me much since no one here ever says "Cola".

[dave731]

The ad campaign they ran to specifically call it Coke Zero, the twitter account, the all out battle between coca~cola and Coke Zero in every ad they ran...and it has always been dubbed Coca Cola Zero on every label....calling BS!

[Buccaneer]

I don't think I had come across the term Mandela Effect before, can't believe I would miss this on youtube since that's the kind of stuff I watch.

Spending the last hour reading several discussions on this from buzzfeed, reddit, etc., I tend to think people want to believe a different memory or most likely, they just never paid close attention in the first place (like Berenstain).

The one with actually Nelson Mandela confuses me because I knew of him primarily as the leader of South Africa post-Apartheid (which was huge). I barely even remember that he was in prison apart from seeing some signs on campus to Free Mandela. I would think many more people would remember his leadership (a lot of people did see Invictus), so I think most of this is just wishful thinking (apart from obvious mistakes in cartoons, game boards, etc.).

However, I know they did not change the name Froot Loops, I just didn't pay attention to it and would think that spelling was wrong.

[dave731]

The ones I'd be willing to stake my life on...

Berenstein Bears
Dolly Had Braces
JFK car was 4 seats
The A-Team van was solid black with red stripe.
The Pentagon was under construction and the plane crash killed nobody at The Pentagon.
Only 3 buildings fell at WTC on 9/11. The twin towers and WTC7 (might be a thread here about it as well)
E.T. said E.T. phone home...not ET Home phone
Morpheus did say "What if I told you..." in the movie.
Forrest Gump did say "Life IS like a box of chocolates" main reason was when this movie came out I could do a great Forrest Gump impression and people at work had me doing quotes from the movie.
The North Pole was always a large land mass at the top of the globe...I.e. The Arctic! It's gone now!
Kit-Kat and never KitKat

I know I'm not crazy because when I ask people to recall from memory certain things, they remember it the way I do...then when I show them, they just go "huh, that's strange"...then change the subject!!

[Buccaneer]

Sure but the fallacy believing that it had changed. If you would ask me to spell the bears book, I would've written Bernstein because I had not paid attention that it had always been Berenstain.

The We are the Champions one I can understand. It depends on which version. Freddie did sing "...of the world" at the end at Live Aid, but not on the original (he did sing that earlier in the song though).

So we simply had not really paid attention or had forgotten, not because of some alternate universe crap.

[dave731]

Not alternate universe...more likely altered quantum physics at CERN. I've seen enough that I'm convinced the scientists there have done something to mess with reality. The cognitive dissonance theory holds no water when people remember it the exact same way! I honestly think we don't look at reality enough to even notice the changes. People been posting this stuff for years and I have never seen it either. I'm a believer now though....as crazy as it sounds.

*goes to kitchen to make tin foil hat*

[corbes]

Seriously?

I'm sure people have been misspelling Stan and Jan's last name their whole lives. Doesn't mean that their name got changed on us or that the matrix glitched.

[SteveM58]

Originally Posted by dave731

The ones I'd be willing to stake my life on...

The A-Team van was solid black with red stripe.
The Pentagon was under construction and the plane crash killed nobody at The Pentagon.
Only 3 buildings fell at WTC on 9/11. The twin towers and WTC7 (might be a thread here about it as well)
E.T. said E.T. phone home...not ET Home phone
Morpheus did say "What if I told you..." in the movie.
Forrest Gump did say "Life IS like a box of chocolates" main reason was when this movie came out I could do a great Forrest Gump impression and people at work had me doing quotes from the movie.
The North Pole was always a large land mass at the top of the globe...I.e. The Arctic! It's gone now!
Kit-Kat and never KitKat

Wait...these aren't all true?

[Ksyrup]

This is interesting, but in perusing a couple of articles with multiple examples of this stuff, it seems that much of this can be explained by pronunciation issues (Oscar Mayer, Berenstain, Froot Loops), or things that would seem to be true because the falsehood people swear they know to be true makes sense (such as people swearing the Monopoly guy had a monocle), or things that have been turned into more universal sayings because they don't make sense if recited verbatim ("Life WAS like a box of chocolates" or "NO I am your father" - if you try to use those in discussions, they don't make as much sense out of context).

It's interesting to read through, but I don't see a pattern of things that aren't explainable by mostly common human mind deficiencies.

[dave731]

That's just it...I don't know about Flinstones vs Flintstones or Froot vs Fruit...didn't pay attention.

I did pay attention to this stuff tho!

But Roy Scheider said "we're gonna need a bigger boat" because HE WAS ON THE BOAT!

Drew Barrymore repeats EXACTLY what ET says in the film.

The Pentagon was under construction to reinforce the walls and nobody was working in that part of the building...THIS WAS REPORTED BY EVERYONE! How can that be misremembered?

Dolly Had Braces!

Statue of Liberty sits on Ellis Island in front of the immigration office!

Too many to just misremember guys...

[dave731]

The first time I looked at a map after "waking up" was brutal...Southwest America? No Arctic land mass? Australia shrunk and moved north? It was called the land down under because it was the farthest South before you hit Antarctica. And Sydney was the capital! I know you guys think I'm crazy but this is really happening...

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

So we simply had not really paid attention or had forgotten, not because of some alternate universe crap.

This, plus if enough people quote a movie incorrectly or spell something wrong, it's a thundering herd effect. There's already enough studies out there that show how bad the mind is at remembering specifics and how strong the power of suggestion is, hardly something nefarious or universes bleeding into one another at play here.

[mckerney]

The Dilemna Dilemma

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by dave731

The first time I looked at a map after "waking up" was brutal...Southwest America? No Arctic land mass? Australia shrunk and moved north? It was called the land down under because it was the farthest South before you hit Antarctica. And Sydney was the capital! I know you guys think I'm crazy but this is really happening...

Or you had some incorrect maps growing up.

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of Americans think Sydney is the capital of Australia, hell I could probably find hundreds of maps where it's labeled as the main city in Australia because it's the largest or just because of ignorance.

The interesting thing to me is whether this phenomenon is getting less common because of the internet (easy to look up correct sources like Wikipedia where as back in the day if you had an errata in your encyclopedia chances were you'd believe it for life) or whether it's getting more common (memes, idiots on youtube and fake news)

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by dave731

As a coach, I have memorized the Lord's prayer and recited it countless times...it is not the same in the KJV Bible as what I remember.

Was it not the same as Matthew 6:9-13? Or is the issue between forgiving your debts vs. trespasses? Trespasses is a Book of Common Prayer thing (and since the BCP was so ubiquitous, it become normal).

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Or you had some incorrect maps growing up.

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of Americans think Sydney is the capital of Australia, hell I could probably find hundreds of maps where it's labeled as the main city in Australia because it's the largest or just because of ignorance.

It's not just Americans, either. I've had to explain to a lot of international colleagues from Asia/Americas/Europe that our actual capital is small, very boring, and a few hours drive south.

[corbes]

Perhaps the good people at CERN could stop tinkering with children's cereal and do something about the presidential election?

[dave731]

Originally Posted by corbes

Perhaps the good people at CERN could stop tinkering with children's cereal and do something about the presidential election?

Pretty sure they are Satan worshipers...

[CrimsonFox]

I'm always misremembering scenes in movies I saw as a kid and only then.

I've kinda just convinced myself that my version is better and never see the movies again

[Toddzilla]

That many of these deal with spelling is ponderous

[CrimsonFox]

But also keep in mind that very often directors filmed the hell out of scenes and when they are broadcast on TV, sometimes they use these alternative takes because they are cleaner or whatever.

I've got a bunch of examples too but I don't remember them all.

Blazing Saddles and Animal HOuse were both altered like crazy for the TV versions.

Also I remember the video for Everlong by Foo FIghters had this weird floating eye-monster in it. But every version I find now does not have that.

The video for Billy Ocean's "Loverboy" similarly had an epic fantasy story that looked like The Dark Crystal kinda but that somewhere along the way disappeared. I finally did see that original again.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by dave731

The ones I'd be willing to stake my life on...

Berenstein Bears
Dolly Had Braces
JFK car was 4 seats
The A-Team van was solid black with red stripe.
The Pentagon was under construction and the plane crash killed nobody at The Pentagon.
Only 3 buildings fell at WTC on 9/11. The twin towers and WTC7 (might be a thread here about it as well)
E.T. said E.T. phone home...not ET Home phone
Morpheus did say "What if I told you..." in the movie.
Forrest Gump did say "Life IS like a box of chocolates" main reason was when this movie came out I could do a great Forrest Gump impression and people at work had me doing quotes from the movie.
The North Pole was always a large land mass at the top of the globe...I.e. The Arctic! It's gone now!
Kit-Kat and never KitKat

I know I'm not crazy because when I ask people to recall from memory certain things, they remember it the way I do...then when I show them, they just go "huh, that's strange"...then change the subject!!

Berenatain; just easy to misread the A and an E. I remember being corrected on that a while back and the A was there plain as day once I actually looked at it.

No idea who Dolly is.

JFK car had a third row but I have seen it with 2 rows in "re-enactments".

I didn't watch A-Team and have no actual idea what it was but I thought it was white.

Pentagon was not under construction with no one killed. There were casualties, but I think there were potentially fewer because of some renovation inside.

I don't remember the number of buildings, just know it was more than just the two but that higher number might have been final total with what had to come down for safety.

I don't remember ET exactly but I have heard ET phone home a lot; can't remember if ET said it or the kids.

Never watched the movies so I don't know what Morpheus said.

I remember is. Was makes no sense in the quote. Maybe we heard it the way it made more sense, no idea here.

No land in the north pole, just ice. 7 continents, south pole has land and is a continent.

Not sure on the KitKat one. I remember seeing it on a trip as KitKat and thought it was a European thing as it seemed different to me.

[QuikSand]

Fun topic. I guess it's a matter of how high do you set the bar for a supposed fact pattern requiring some sort of quantum or otherworldly explanation, rather than just acknowledging them as stubborn and/or convincing cases of faulty memory.

It's not like the hyphen in Kit-Kat is so important that people would truly take notice of it in any setting other than these post hoc conversations. I think that's the common element in most of these stories. Most convertibles have four seats, not six. Many more names end in -stein than in -stain. Most movie misquotes substitute a natural phrasing for an awkward one. Steven Biko died in a SA jail in the 70s, but Mandela is far more historically prominent and therefor easier to remember and mis-associate. Pinning deep attachment to our memories of details like these is a very dicey proposition.

I'm not willing to let go of an orderly universe just because I would have vaguely agreed Dolly had braces, too.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Or you had some incorrect maps growing up.

I'm willing to bet the vast majority of Americans think Sydney is the capital of Australia, hell I could probably find hundreds of maps where it's labeled as the main city in Australia because it's the largest or just because of ignorance.

This came up as a question on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire. The person asked the audience. Sydney was 1st (with I think ~45% of the vote). Canberra was 3rd or 4th.

[dave731]

Talking to a guy at work...huge Star Wars fan...asked him to describe the medal presentation scene. He remembered Chewie getting the medal and giving out the classic wookie roar. How do we misremember the exact same scene that never existed in the first place? It's impossible guys...

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by dave731

Talking to a guy at work...huge Star Wars fan...asked him to describe the medal presentation scene. He remembered Chewie getting the medal and giving out the classic wookie roar. How do we misremember the exact same scene that never existed in the first place? It's impossible guys...

If we're lucky we'll merge with a universe where episodes 1 through 3 never happened.

[CrimsonFox]

I watched the hell out of the Temptations miniseries when it was originally on. I remember a funny line by David Ruffin (Leon) at the dinner table when he was invitedto the group.

"I wanna sing with ya'll"

When I saw it again years later that line was absent. He didn't say that at all.
I went crazy after that.

[dave731]

Gandalf said "run, you fools!"

"Fly, you fools" doesn't make a damn bit of sense there.

I'm not misremembering this stuff...

"It's a hard knock life for us!" -Annie

"Lucy, you got some splainin' to do" - Desi Arnez

HE SUPPOSEDLY NEVER EVER SAID THIS AT ALL! How do you misremember a line that was never in the original show?

I get that it's scary to think that something is manipulating reality as we know it but I am of the school of thought that the bigger picture has to be looked at if this is the case. You cannot dismiss it as bad memory when you know it's not the case. Ignorance is both bliss and foolishness in this case.

[cuervo72]

We don't remember the line, we remember 60 years of people misquoting the line. So yes, you've heard "splainin," just not directly from Ricky.

But hey, have fun with your tin hat.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

Memory is a hell of a thing. Luke I am your father, look that up..

oh and Interview with a vampire

With "Luke I am you father" it kinda makes sense that people would quote it that way since even if it's incorrect it would better signal exactly what they're quoting.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by dave731

Gandalf said "run, you fools!"

"Fly, you fools" doesn't make a damn bit of sense there.

If only there was some sort of source material that we could check what that line was

[corbes]

It strikes that this "effect" or "phenomenon" is not dissimilar to the numerous studies that have been done on the reliability of eyewitness testimony in criminal trials. At the root of it is that the human memory does not work the way we might think it does.

Originally Posted by Scientific American

The uncritical acceptance of eyewitness accounts may stem from a popular misconception of how memory works. Many people believe that human memory works like a video recorder: the mind records events and then, on cue, plays back an exact replica of them. On the contrary, psychologists have found that memories are reconstructed rather than played back each time we recall them. The act of remembering, says eminent memory researcher and psychologist Elizabeth F. Loftus of the University of California, Irvine, is “more akin to putting puzzle pieces together than retrieving a video recording.” Even questioning by a lawyer can alter the witness’s testimony because fragments of the memory may unknowingly be combined with information provided by the questioner, leading to inaccurate recall.

Many researchers have created false memories in normal individuals; what is more, many of these subjects are certain that the memories are real. In one well-known study, Loftus and her colleague Jacqueline Pickrell gave subjects written accounts of four events, three of which they had actually experienced. The fourth story was fiction; it centered on the subject being lost in a mall or another public place when he or she was between four and six years old. A relative provided realistic details for the false story, such as a description of the mall at which the subject’s parents shopped. After reading each story, subjects were asked to write down what else they remembered about the incident or to indicate that they did not remember it at all. Remarkably about one third of the subjects reported partially or fully remembering the false event. In two follow-up interviews, 25 percent still claimed that they remembered the untrue story, a figure consistent with the findings of similar studies.

Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts - Scientific American

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by mckerney

With "Luke I am you father" it kinda makes sense that people would quote it that way since even if it's incorrect it would better signal exactly what they're quoting.

Yeah. Another problem is there have been billions...er....millions...of parodies of the scene and all of the parodies use the incorrect line. THen our brain just imagines that's how the line actually went.

[Easy Mac]

It seems wasteful that the idiots in CERN are causing all these quantum disruptions, and the best they can do is change movie lines by one word.

[dave731]

The one thing that has changed in all of this is my relationship with God. Never before have I read John 8:32 the way I read it now and it has embedded in me as reality that this earth is temporary for us as eternal beings.

[albionmoonlight]

The Mandela Effect has caused me additional despair over changing people's minds once they are made up.

People confronted with uncontroverted evidence that they mis-remembered something do not accept the evidence. They adopt multiverse theory before admitting that they are wrong.

If that's how stubborn people are over pure facts, I can't see how people ever change their minds over other less cut-and-dry issues (like, e.g., how investment tax breaks affect the economy).

[dave731]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The Mandela Effect has caused me additional despair over changing people's minds once they are made up.

People confronted with uncontroverted evidence that they mis-remembered something do not accept the evidence. They adopt multiverse theory before admitting that they are wrong.

If that's how stubborn people are over pure facts, I can't see how people ever change their minds over other less cut-and-dry issues (like, e.g., how investment tax breaks affect the economy).

Best response ever...when the sky turns purple, and I'm yelling it was always blue, I will move you to the front of the see I told you so list.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by dave731

Best response ever...when the sky turns purple, and I'm yelling it was always blue, I will move you to the front of the see I told you so list.

Well this probably won't make you feel better then....

Humans didn't even see the colour blue until modern times, research suggests - ScienceAlert

[dave731]

https://youtu.be/eXheG7TDtGA
Would anyone argue that this is not real?

[Kodos]

The narrator sounded kinda .... cray-cray and paranoid to me.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Kodos

The narrator sounded kinda .... cray-cray and paranoid to me.

Reality for me now is that's these people sound normal...which could be an indicator that I have lost my mind. I'm clinging to the truth...dolly had braces damnit!

[Brian Swartz]

The logic is unfortunately fairly typical conspiracy-level stuff. It always starts out with truth: in this case, quantam mechanics are real and incredibly counter-intuitive. The derived ideas, for example that Microsoft knows the future or the mocking of tangible benefits to having exponentially faster quantam computers, are absurd reaches. As an example of the first, fuel and pharmaceutical companies spend a lot of money on things that may not work -- the payoff is worth the risk. This is really no different. Assuming that some advanced quantam AI is reaching back into our time from the future(through what mechanism is not described, particularly since there's absolutely nothing about quantam mechanics that enables time travel per se and the concept is still basically considered to be sci-fi) is truly tin-foil-hat stuff. Descriptions of dark energy etc. are simply not accurate as well ... not my intention to be rude here but the maker of the video simply does not for the most part know what they are talking about.

A big part of these kind of things is the 'why'. I.e., what does this hypothetical future AI gain from making small edits like these to popular movies from our time? There's a great many things such an entity might wish to change. But seriously ... that's what they'd go for? Easily-recognizable and pointless changes? No.

[dave731]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

The logic is unfortunately fairly typical conspiracy-level stuff. It always starts out with truth: in this case, quantam mechanics are real and incredibly counter-intuitive. The derived ideas, for example that Microsoft knows the future or the mocking of tangible benefits to having exponentially faster quantam computers, are absurd reaches. As an example of the first, fuel and pharmaceutical companies spend a lot of money on things that may not work -- the payoff is worth the risk. This is really no different. Assuming that some advanced quantam AI is reaching back into our time from the future(through what mechanism is not described, particularly since there's absolutely nothing about quantam mechanics that enables time travel per se and the concept is still basically considered to be sci-fi) is truly tin-foil-hat stuff. Descriptions of dark energy etc. are simply not accurate as well ... not my intention to be rude here but the maker of the video simply does not for the most part know what they are talking about.

A big part of these kind of things is the 'why'. I.e., what does this hypothetical future AI gain from making small edits like these to popular movies from our time? There's a great many things such an entity might wish to change. But seriously ... that's what they'd go for? Easily-recognizable and pointless changes? No.

Why? Is "because they can" not a viable answer?

And they are not always easily recognizable. I'm not sure what "wakes" people up to the changes. I know the Dolly thing triggered me but I'm not sure how I was missing all the other stuff before. Maybe our minds are getting "firmware" updates from the AI CPU and the people who can see it are rejecting it? Hell if I know...my mind is so jacked up but I have never seen the world clearer than I do now.

[Kodos]

But... people's minds don't get firmware updates. That's sci-fi.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Kodos

But... people's minds don't get firmware updates. That's sci-fi.

Mine did, but the latest firmware caused BSOD and I'm back on rev 35.2.