If Trump Loses In November, What Do You Think Happens Next

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Butter

I don't know, I feel like we really gotta get DEEP into the meaning of "coup" before we can really figure out what to call it

That's what I'm thinking. Glad my message is getting through to some of you. Check it out ...

https://qz.com/1953602/is-america-experiencing-a-coup/

Probably most applicable passage for this forum.

At a confusing, distressing moment like this, you could be forgiven for not using perfectly precise language. “I don’t have a quarrel with people colloquially saying ‘This is a coup,’ because I know what they mean,” said Stokes. “It’s a moment when even more so than many times in the last four years, our democracy is much more fragile and vulnerable than we thought it was.”

But, as George Orwell famously argued in his essay “Politics and the English Language,” our words can shape our thoughts, our politics, and our actions. If we apply misleading labels to events, it can be harder to figure out how to respond.

“Those labels matter a lot because they’re going to form [answers] in the public mind around, ‘Is this a problem?’ and then ‘What is the solution to that problem?'” said Syracuse University political science chair Shana Gadarian.

[cartman]

tiresomely pedantic to be honest

[CrimsonFox]

I have one question.

Why do they wear and wave Chicago Bears colors?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by cartman

tiresomely pedantic to be honest

Tiresomely ad hominem

[Ben E Lou]

Pelosi to speak shortly.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Pelosi to speak shortly.

Starting another articles of impeachment hopefully.

I can see this much more than Pence & cabinet.

[Brian Swartz]

I'm with Edward64. Language matters, and as Orwell said, it's destruction has major impacts on society. It's just like the regular tossing around of the word treason to describe actions that aren't treasonous, or the misuse of the word socialism as others on this forum often rightly object to. It colors how events are viewed, and is often a vital concern, not a pedantic one.

[cartman]

The textbook, dictionary, definition of a coup is "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government." Do we need to parse each and every word in that definition to say what was done yesterday was an attempt at a coup?

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I'm with Edward64. Language matters, and as Orwell said, it's destruction has major impacts on society.

You know what is more destructive? Lies becoming "truth".

And yet, there we were last night after four people died at the Capitol with Matt Gaetz and others in the GOP continuing to spout lie after lie.

[BYU 14]

Well we now know who Pelosi's new 'desk mate' is. And the complete arrogance of this asshat is unbelievable.

Protester with feet on Nancy Pelosi's desk is a Trump supporter from Arkansas

[Ben E Lou]

Chao resigns as Transportation Secretary. Explicitly because of "what the President did yesterday."

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Well we now know who Pelosi's new 'desk mate' is. And the complete arrogance of this asshat is unbelievable.

Protester with feet on Nancy Pelosi's desk is a Trump supporter from Arkansas

Throw him in prison with the rest of them that are identified.

[Atocep]

This is the overthrow a government equivalent to assistant coaches or boosters keeping the head coach in the dark about recruiting violations.

Maybe not a coup, by definition, but parts of our government were likely complicit in an attempt to negate a presidential election.

[Lathum]

Just because it was poorly organized and executed doesn't make it any less of a coup.

[Butter]

You don't think that if they had gotten their hands on the Electoral Vote certificates that those things wouldn't have gone up in smoke? Again, just because they were mostly hillbilly idiots doesn't mean it wasn't a coup attempt.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Throw him in prison with the rest of them that are identified.

But not until Biden is sworn in. Don't want Trump giving them pardons, which he will because it's only law and order for certain people.

[JPhillips]

I have no doubt Trump will be removed if articles are filed. Enough of the GOP wants him gone not just now, but more importantly for them, ineligible for 2024.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Pelosi to speak shortly.

2:00 EST

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Butter

You don't think that if they had gotten their hands on the Electoral Vote certificates that those things wouldn't have gone up in smoke? Again, just because they were mostly hillbilly idiots doesn't mean it wasn't a coup attempt.

It was CNN or MSNBC last night that brought up what would have happened if the protestors destroyed the "boxes".

FWIW, a talking head said there would be another way to restart the process albeit delayed. No details though.

[Edward64]

No idea if Pelosi will bring up impeachment. But if she did, is there enough time left to impeach?

And then, is there enough time for Senate to confirm (or not) the impeachment?

It may all be symbolic but I really hope she starts the process.

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

But not until Biden is sworn in. Don't want Trump giving them pardons, which he will because it's only law and order for certain people.

Can't Trump pardon anyone based on future federal charges?

[cartman]

and another one

you love to see it. pic.twitter.com/EP79MdhGVz

— donky from shrek (@donky_fromshrek) January 7, 2021

[sterlingice]

It was an attempted coup, if we want to really split hairs

And those trying to wiggle around the definitions sound like Sideshow Bob and "Attempted murder? Now honestly, what is that? Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?"



SI

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Edward64

It was CNN or MSNBC last night that brought up what would have happened if the protestors destroyed the "boxes".

FWIW, a talking head said there would be another way to restart the process albeit delayed. No details though.

Not debating what would've happened if they had gotten their hands on it. The intent was to stop Biden coming to power. I wonder if there's some kind of word to describe that...

[JPhillips]

Trump could be removed by the morning if Congress wanted to. The House could vote tonight and the Senate could vote without a trial tomorrow.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Butter

Not debating what would've happened if they had gotten their hands on it. The intent was to stop Biden coming to power. I wonder if there's some kind of word to describe that...

I think Biden used the word insurrection and not the C-word.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump could be removed by the morning if Congress wanted to. The House could vote tonight and the Senate could vote without a trial tomorrow.

Thanks.

That would be a perfect ending. I can live with Pence for the remaining days.

[kingfc22]

This asshole got his just desserts as well.

Tennessee-Chattanooga Mocs fire assistant football coach Chris Malone after racist tweet

Accountability.

[Lathum]

Biden going off.

[Ben E Lou]

Biden is issuing another scathing speech, listing Trump's most egregious actions. I wonder if he's leading up to calling for removal. (Not sure why else he'd need to say more than yesterday.)

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Trump could be removed by the morning if Congress wanted to. The House could vote tonight and the Senate could vote without a trial tomorrow.

And it keeps him from being eligible to run again, which is worth it on its own.

[Atocep]

If articles are announced I'd guess it's only happening because Dems feel they have the numbers for removal.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Atocep

If articles are announced I'd guess it's only happening because Dems feel they have the numbers for removal.

I'd like to think that's true, but you may be giving the Dems too much credit here...

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

You know what is more destructive? Lies becoming "truth".

And yet, there we were last night after four people died at the Capitol with Matt Gaetz and others in the GOP continuing to spout lie after lie.

Are you somehow laboring under the impression I'm in favor of lying? It used to be that I would argue in favor of a return to the concept of truth and for literal decades would be told by the left in general that it was an outmoded concept, postmodernism is where it all is, there's no such thing as truth and therefore no such thing as lying, it's all relative etc.

I've got as much skin in the anti-lying, pro-truth game as just about anybody.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Biden is issuing another scathing speech, listing Trump's most egregious actions. I wonder if he's leading up to calling for removal. (Not sure why else he'd need to say more than yesterday.)

I think the odds are better than 50-50 now

[Ben E Lou]

Heh...all that to nominate Garland. Never mind...

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Are you somehow laboring under the impression I'm in favor of lying? It used to be that I would argue in favor of a return to the concept of truth and for literal decades would be told by the left in general that it was an outmoded concept, postmodernism is where it all is, there's no such thing as truth and therefore no such thing as lying, it's all relative etc.

I've got as much skin in the anti-lying, pro-truth game as just about anybody.

I'm not suggesting that you are in favor of lying. What I am suggesting is arguing semantics is not as important as arguing basic truth.

Sure politicians bend their words all the time, but we can't have people in power saying the sky is red and living in that reality when it is clear as day not true.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Heh...all that to nominate Garland. Never mind...

That would be a major downer

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by lungs

If we can’t call it a coup, can we call it a Putsch?

just added another "highlight, right click, search google" word to my list.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

That would be a major downer

Odds have gone down to 10% now.

These should have been like 2 different speeches. Garland could wait till Mon or so

[ISiddiqui]

https://twitter.com/business/status/...147402752?s=19

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Ben E Lou]

Upon further thought, unless they think he’s going to fire off a nuke or something, why would the Democrats want to remove him at this point? Don’t they want him around screwing up the ‘22 and ‘24 primaries? I’m thinking this is all just posturing and grandstanding.

[cartman]

If it is a foul in the 1st quarter, it is also still a foul with 15 seconds left

[Butter]

So, you think we should just let what happened yesterday go without comment or consequence?

[Butter]

Invoking the 25th amendment would still ultimately require a Congressional vote (unless Trump allows it to happen which would be possibly the biggest surprise of his presidency, and that's saying something), and if that happens, then you have a pretty easy impeachment vote directly after, unless none of the Rs defect, and I mean they're going to at least get Romney.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

https://twitter.com/business/status/...147402752?s=19

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

So wait, did Pelosi do her speech the same time as Bidens? Lol.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Upon further thought, unless they think he’s going to fire off a nuke or something, why would the Democrats want to remove him at this point? Don’t they want him around screwing up the ‘22 and ‘24 primaries? I’m thinking this is all just posturing and grandstanding.

He can't be allowed to run for President in '24.

[Edward64]

There are a bunch of jihadis drinking their hot tea thinking ... damn lost opportunity, is it that easy?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Upon further thought, unless they think he’s going to fire off a nuke or something, why would the Democrats want to remove him at this point? Don’t they want him around screwing up the ‘22 and ‘24 primaries? I’m thinking this is all just posturing and grandstanding.

I agree and I go back to feeling Trump's presidency is over. I don't think they're letting him anywhere near a meaningful decision and limiting his public visibility over the next 2 weeks. Pence will effectively run the country and milk the clock out.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Butter

Invoking the 25th amendment would still ultimately require a Congressional vote (unless Trump allows it to happen which would be possibly the biggest surprise of his presidency, and that's saying something), and if that happens, then you have a pretty easy impeachment vote directly after, unless none of the Rs defect, and I mean they're going to at least get Romney.

If I'm understanding the process correctly, Congress has to rule on the outcome of the 25th amendment petition within 21(?) days. It was a length of time that allowed them to basically run out the clock and not have to do anything until after Jan. 20th.