Habemus Papam!

[Edward64]

I think these are pretty far along already in the US but can see significant resistance from other countries. Good first step I guess.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/08/eu...ily/index.html

Pope Francis put his shoulder to the doors of the Catholic Church and shoved them open a little wider Friday, calling for the church to be more tolerant in practice while not changing any official doctrines.

He urged priests around the world to be more accepting of gays and lesbians, divorced Catholics and other people living in what the church considers "irregular" situations.

"A pastor cannot feel that it is enough simply to apply moral laws ... as if they were stones to throw at people's lives," Francis writes in a sweeping paper outlining his stance on family matters.

He urges more common sense and less unthinking following of rules.
"By thinking that everything is black and white, we sometimes close off the way of grace and growth," he writes.

He emphasizes that "unjust discrimination" against gays and lesbians is unacceptable, downplays the idea of "living in sin" and suggests that priests should use their own discretion on whether divorced Catholics in new marriages can take Communion.

[Kodos]

He is by far the best Pope in my lifetime.

[Julio Riddols]

IMO, This Pope is dope.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

IMO, This Pope is dope.

more like either "is a dope" or "is on dope"

One seriously vile deranged mfer.

[ISiddiqui]

It is worth noting, of course, that the Pope didn't actually change anything. He's just kind of reminding priests to not be dicks .

[Julio Riddols]

I love ya Jon, you remind me constantly just how different two opinions can be.

[SirBlurton]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

more like either "is a dope" or "is on dope"

One seriously vile deranged mfer.

STAY IN YOUR LANE, POPE!

I too am disgusted by a person who would espouse the virtues of tolerance and grace...and in an age like this....for shame....

I'd be interested to see what your top 10 list of non-vile people looked like....and the 10 most vile. Would be informative, I'm sure.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It is worth noting, of course, that the Pope didn't actually change anything. He's just kind of reminding priests to not be dicks .

He'd have gotten more reads if he'd entitled his work "Don't Be a Dick".

[ISiddiqui]

I'm sure if he posted it on Buzzfeed, he would .

[Warhammer]

The whole premise of Christianity is forgiveness. In the Catholic Church, reconciliation is something a person needs to ask for. The truly repentant will seek to make amends, but if you throw the book at them, they will more than likely regress or turn their back.

I had a situation in college in which my girlfriend became pregnant. I fought for her to keep the child, but she wound up aborting it (we were 500 miles away from each other at the time). I was helping her out with living expenses. Did I give her money for living expenses? Yes. Was it for her to abort the child? No. However, being 20 years older, I realize that it did not matter, money goes into a fund and sure it may not have gone towards that, but it keep her from having to float other expenses.

Where the dilemma comes in, depending upon how someone slices it, I could be excommunicated from the Church for paying for an abortion. Even though it was never my intent. After all this happened I went to confession for my role in all of this. It never dawned on me until years later, that my providing my girlfriend money at the time could be looked at as paying for it. However, having a much better understanding of how budgets and everything work now, I certainly helped her in the process, even though I had no intention of doing so.

Had anyone at the time told me that I could be excommunicated for doing so, I would have not done it. Had I considered what I had done wrong, I would have handled it when I went to confession.

Religion is not about "Gotcha!" moments, it is for us to understand and work towards becoming better people and being a positive influence on those around us, and ultimately giving glory to God. In my case, driving down the road 20 years after the fact, and hearing that the Church's doctrine is X, and then having to pour through writings about what my condition was for the past 20 years (Have I been receiving communion when I was not supposed to? Am I excommunicated? Etc.), rather than strengthening my spirit, I felt beat down. Rather than being a regular church goer, I became much more lax about going, because I was unsure of how I fit into the Church's categories. The Church should be welcoming, and not condemning. Yes, are sins sins? Yes, but here is how we work to sin no more. Life and turning from sin is a process, and this Pope recognizes this.

[ISiddiqui]

Thanks for your post, Warhammer. That was beautiful.

And I hope that you feel that you are able to fit better into the Church's categories (which really is and should be one category: sinners, which we all are) and are able to attend Mass more often without a feeling of awkwardness or anxiety.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Kodos

He is by far the best Pope in my lifetime.

Feel the same way. The underlying shame is the need to remind people to be more tolerant in the first place.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

more like either "is a dope" or "is on dope"

One seriously vile deranged mfer.

Nothing more vile than talking acceptance...

[Edward64]

FWIW, the real story according to Time

Pope Francis: Media Gets It Wrong on Evolution and Creationism

The OMG-Pope-Francis-Supports-Evolution story of the past two days is just the latest example. Almost every news outlet, major and minor, has plastered Pope Francis’ name across the interwebs and proclaimed he has finally planted the Catholic Church in the evolution camp of the creation-evolution debate. The only problem? Almost every outlet has got the story wrong, proving once again that the mainstream media has nearly no understanding of the Church. And that madness shows no signs of stopping.

Pope Francis’ real role in this evolution hubbub was small. He spoke, as Popes do, to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences on Monday, which had gathered to discuss “Evolving Topics of Nature,” and he affirmed what Catholic teaching has been for decades. “God is not a divine being or a magician, but the Creator who brought everything to life,” he said. “Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.”
Anyone who knows anything about Catholic history knows that a statement like this is nothing new. Pope Pius XII wrote an encyclical “Humani Generis” in 1950 affirming that there was no conflict between evolution and Catholic faith. Pope John Paul II reaffirmed that, stressing that evolution was more than a hypothesis, in 1996. Pope Benedict XVI hosted a conference on the nuances of creation and evolution in 2006. There’s an official book on the event for anyone who wants to know more. Pope Francis’ comments Monday even came as he was unveiling a new statue of Pope Benedict XVI, honoring him for his leadership.

None of that seems to matter to the media; the internet exploded all the same. Site after site after site ramped up the Pope’s words and took them out of context. Headlines like these added drama: NPR: “Pope Says God Not ‘A Magician, With A Magic Wand.’” Salon: “Pope Francis schools creationists.” U.S. News and World Report: “Pope Francis Backs the Big Bang Theory, Evolution” (with a subhed: “Also, the pontiff says he’s not a communist”). Huffington Post. Sydney Morning Herald. Telegraph. USA Today. New York Post. The list goes on and on. Only Slate did its homework.

[Edward64]

It seems weird for this to come from a third party vs himself.

Not sure why he doesn't just say it himself with whatever caveats or context he wants to provide. I guess its because of the backlash and resistance and assume he is playing the "long" game in managing the change.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/europ...ntl/index.html

Rome (CNN)A victim of clerical sexual abuse has said that Pope Francis told him that God made him gay and that his sexuality "does not matter."

Juan Carlos Cruz, a survivor of sexual abuse, spent three days with Pope Francis at the Vatican in April, in which he discussed his sexuality and the abuse he suffered at the hands of a Chilean priest.

Describing his encounter with the Pope to CNN, Cruz said: "You know Juan Carlos, that does not matter. God made you like this. God loves you like this. The Pope loves you like this and you should love yourself and not worry about what people say."

The Pope's words would amount to a significant departure from the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, which considers homosexuality "objectively disordered" and contrary to God's law.

Vatican spokesman Greg Burke told CNN on Monday: "We do not normally comment on the Pope's private conversations."

[MrBug708]

He's practically Episcopalian!

[SackAttack]

It's the old 'sinner versus the sin' thing, or at least that's how the Church will spin it, if they spin it at all.

"God made you gay and that's okay. That's just the particular challenge He gave you to overcome as you try to draw closer to Him.

Actually engaging in homosexual activity is where He draws the line.

But being attracted to the same sex? That's just garden variety lust. Everybody deals with that. Carry on."

And if it comes from a third party rather than the Pope, there's a little more plausible deniability to be able to be like 'nah, that's not actually what Francis said, that's just how the dude interpreted it.'

[ISiddiqui]

It's probably what Francis actually believes (as opposed to spinning what he said). He was, after all, a very vocal opponent of same sex marriage in Argentina when he was a Cardinal.

[Edward64]

Don't agree with this. IMO, some people just deserve to die (but I guess that's why I'm not Pope).

Pope Francis declares death penalty inadmissible in all cases - BBC News

Pope Francis has changed the teachings of the Catholic faith to oppose the death penalty in all circumstances, the Vatican has said.

The Catechism of the Church, which sums up the teachings, had previously stated that the death penalty could be used in some cases.

It now says it is "inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person".

Pope Francis has in the past spoken out against executions.

Last October, he had said the Church's policy on the death penalty was one area where teaching was not static and could change with modern concerns.

The text of the catechism was first set by Pope John Paul II in October 1992.

The teachings had earlier stated that the death penalty was "an appropriate response to the gravity of certain crimes and an acceptable, albeit extreme, means of safeguarding the common good".

However, the new text says there is "an increasing awareness that the dignity of the person is not lost even after the commission of very serious crimes".

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Don't agree with this. IMO, some people just deserve to die (but I guess that's why I'm not Pope).

Pope Francis declares death penalty inadmissible in all cases - BBC News

Why is this news? It makes complete sense to me, their stance is the death penalty is wrong because it denies the chance for redemption and forgiveness.

[ISiddiqui]

And the Catholic Church has been trending that way for a long time now. Not surprised by this one bit.

[Edward64]

I wonder if Catholic doctrine has any impact on the supremes and how they decide in cases.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/02/opini...ini/index.html

Thank God that Pope Francis has finally acted, and firmly. Of course he speaks only to the 1.2 billion Catholics who look to him for guidance in Christian doctrine. But this is an important group, and it includes at least four members of the Supreme Court: Samuel Alito, John Roberts, Sonia Sotomayor and Clarence Thomas. Should Brett Kavanaugh be appointed, that would make five Catholic justices.

Will these justices listen to Christian teaching, especially as it has now been articulated by the pontiff in Rome? Or will they side with those on the Christian right who have favored "an eye for an eye" justice, thus ignoring the teachings of Jesus and Paul?

I hope the time has come for the United States to join the modern world and abolish capital punishment once and for all. It's plain common sense as well as obvious Christian ethics and humanitarian sentiment.

[ISiddiqui]

Most likely not. No Catholic judge would ever want people to say that he voted according to his/her faith.

[Edward64]

I am glad that he is giving his backing to civil unions.

However, the obvious question is why only civil unions and not actual Catholic marriage if "they are children of God". I'm sure there's a rationale and internal politics he needs to deal with so still good first (or second) step.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/po...=mw_latestnews

Pope Francis endorsed same-sex civil unions for the first time as pope while being interviewed for the feature-length documentary “Francesco,” which had its premiere at the Rome Film Festival on Wednesday.

The papal thumbs up came midway through the film that delves into issues he cares about most, including the environment, poverty, migration, racial and income inequality, and the people most affected by discrimination.

“Homosexual people have the right to be in a family. They are children of God,” Francis said in one of his sit-down interviews for the film. “What we have to have is a civil union law; that way they are legally covered.”

While serving as archbishop of Buenos Aires, Francis endorsed civil unions for gay couples as an alternative to same-sex marriages. However, he had never come out publicly in favor of civil unions as pope.

[Kodos]

It's a step in the right direction. He's the best Pope in my lifetime.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Edward64

However, the obvious question is why only civil unions and not actual Catholic marriage if "they are children of God".

Because everyone is a child of God, but, in the Catholic faith, not everyone is to partake in the sacrament of marriage. Priests, for one, are not allowed to do so. Francis has been adamant that marriage should be between men and women. He's just providing a compromise for legal recognition for gay partnerships. A way for civil recognition without trying to require it for the Catholic Church.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Because everyone is a child of God, but, in the Catholic faith, not everyone is to partake in the sacrament of marriage. Priests, for one, are not allowed to do so. Francis has been adamant that marriage should be between men and women. He's just providing a compromise for legal recognition for gay partnerships. A way for civil recognition without trying to require it for the Catholic Church.

Ok, but then I still have some honest questions here. How does he get around the fornication thing? Sex outside of marriage is fornication, and a civil union isn't marriage. I also thought Catholics taught that sex is only for reproduction. Has that changed?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Ok, but then I still have some honest questions here. How does he get around the fornication thing? Sex outside of marriage is fornication, and a civil union isn't marriage. I also thought Catholics taught that sex is only for reproduction. Has that changed?

He appears to be differentiating between legal rights and the Catholic Church. For instance, the Pope (and previous Popes) believe in legal rights for Hindus while also believing they don't really fully understand God.

In the Catholic Church, LGBTQ+ individuals are still expected to abstain from sex.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Ok, but then I still have some honest questions here. How does he get around the fornication thing? Sex outside of marriage is fornication, and a civil union isn't marriage. I also thought Catholics taught that sex is only for reproduction. Has that changed?

This goes into hate the sin, love the sinner territory.

But I do think this is very much in the realm of law and not the church.

Regarding sex, the last teaching I heard was that those having sex must be open to God's blessings/plan. Not saying that is Church Doctrine, but it is the last I heard from a priest.

[Edward64]

I guess better than nothing ...

But the media seems to be making a bigger deal out of it than I'd think. It's a blessing (see examples below) and not an acceptance. Just one more step though ...

Pope Francis has suggested he would be open to having the Catholic Church bless same-sex couples.

Responding to a group of cardinals who asked him for clarity on the issue, he said any request for a blessing should be treated with "pastoral charity".

"We cannot be judges who only deny, reject and exclude," he said.

He added, however, that the Church still considered same-sex relationships "objectively sinful" and would not recognise same-sex marriage.

In the Catholic Church, a blessing is a prayer or plea, usually delivered by a minister, asking for God to look favourably on the person or people being blessed.

[CrimsonFox]

I don't think it matters. people that go to church have their own agenda now. The priests do for sure. Every now and then I go to church just to get some mental peace. And now its pretty sparce. Ful;l of busybody old people and fussy deacons with frowny faces. Hell their webpage has adverttisements to vote in the next election for only conservative views. Some things really deserve to die off really. It'll get replaced by something better. LIke maybe a 24 hour a day Pope TV. Pope all day pope all night.

[Edward64]

ChatGPT sermons!

[Flasch186]

Chatgpt opportunity to groom those kids into vulnerability


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