FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

OR

Specifically in this case, everyone can see the teenagers openly carrying the BB guns while walking into the sporting goods store that sells BB guns and NOT think that they are going to rob the store that sells BB guns based solely on them openly carrying a BB gun.

Is that scary? Yes.

Are there going to be cases where people are wrong and places are robbed by people with BB guns or bullet guns that look like BB guns? Absolutely!

But once we have made the call as a society that BB guns that look like real bullet guns can exist and in a more general sense that people outside of law enforcement can openly carry BB guns and real bullet guns legally, we can no longer jump to the assumptions of the people openly carrying these weapons automatically have criminal intentions. If we all get to openly carrying guns, we probably need to all get comfortable with a society where we all get to openly carry guns and BB guns that look like real life guns.

lol no one thinks of a bb gun as an actual thing outside the 1950s well...and gun fetishers making dumb arguments.

everyone sees a gun and thinks "shit! he's gonna shoot the place" especially a group of teens.

in fact I'm not sure at all they weren't going to try something. but that doesn't at all matter.

[JPhillips]

If I can carry guns openly almost anywhere and you can shoot me if you find me to be a threat, that causes a lot of problems.

[Ghost Econ]

I like that the argument really is that certain, maybe we'll cay certain colors of, people shouldn't be able to carry guns and they're no longer afraid to say it out loud.

[Atocep]

That particular incident happened in a parking lot we go to fairly often. There's a Japanese grocery store my wife really likes there.

It's a large parking lot that's always full. You had countless other people in that parking lot that would have seen these teens and didn't see it as a threat. The only person that did see it as a threat was the guy sitting in his car, trying to be a vigilante, and looking for threats. Then once he confronted what he deemed to be a threat, was told it was a bb gun, and it was tossed to the ground, he still chose to open fire.

With the way our laws work the kids did nothing wrong while the guy that fired his weapon was actively looking for someone to shoot. I can't go around town pretending to be batman with a gun and kill someone legally carrying a weapon. That's murder.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

I like that the argument really is that certain, maybe we'll cay certain colors of, people shouldn't be able to carry guns and they're no longer afraid to say it out loud.

Totally. "Guns are awesome, but if I see someone with a gun I'm going to shoot them, because who walks around with guns unless they're up to no good, am I right?"

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

lol no one thinks of a bb gun as an actual thing outside the 1950s well...and gun fetishers making dumb arguments.

everyone sees a gun and thinks "shit! he's gonna shoot the place" especially a group of teens.

in fact I'm not sure at all they weren't going to try something. but that doesn't at all matter.

And yet outside of California, Connecticut, Illinois, DC and shockingly Florida, people in every other state are legally permitted to openly carry some sort of firearm. Seems kind of weird to put ourselves in a constant state of "shit! he's gonna shoot the place." worry by making it easier to openly carry as opposed to keeping them concealed.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If I can carry guns openly almost anywhere and you can shoot me if you find me to be a threat, that causes a lot of problems.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Don't forget being told that if you don't want to be seen as a threat you should conceal YOUR weapon.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And a lot of us are tired of the absurdity you just proposed.

Whatever, you enjoy being tired of the absurdities I propose.

And we're better armed

Given the gun laws in this country and my complete lack of felonies, this situation is easily rectified. If I have to buy guns in order to take yours away, well, the ends justify the means.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Just ban guns, all guns, even airsoft. This fetish for firearms in this country is completely fucking out of hand.

Any crime committed while in possession of a firearm gets a 10-year prison term before any other sentencing.

Want to hunt? Check your weapons out of an armory and wear a blaze-orange permit on the back of your hat or the upper back of your jacket.

I'm tired of this shit.

Your 1st paragraph seemingly contradicts your 3rd where you allow use of guns for hunting. Or in the 3rd, do you mean hunters will have to "rent" guns for use?

Just asking for clarification - what is your position on gun ownership?

[Edward64]

I googled on "big 5 airsoft sale" for pics. Yeah, most have the red thingy cap on them.

Airsoft Guns & Paintball Guns | Big 5 Sporting Goods

(But the Umarex T4E TB Semi Auto .68 Caliber Shotgun looks real enough. I thought all toy guns needed some sort of red thingy thing).

There's a video somewhere (hopefully with some audio). I'd like to see it. But based on what I've read so far, I hope they toss the book at this guy.

[Edward64]

Watching more police cam YT videos.

I am convinced that alcohol is the root of 80% of people doing stupid crap.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Florida neighbor feud over playing children ends with mom shot dead, sheriff says

https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-gets-...y?id=112826997

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I agree that everyone here is right to a certain extent. I don't think anyone (or at least the vast majority) thinks the woman was free of fault nor thinks the cops, in retrospect, couldn't have handled it better. Like most things, there are 2 "sides" to the story.

The real question IMO is - how much "blame" does each get?

Using the 80-20 rule, I'd say the woman is 80 wrong.

Others here will probably say the converse. We all live in different worlds based on our experiences, perspective in life, and definition of right/wrong. Because I assign 20 wrong to the cops, I do believe there is a fair chance that the family can win a civil (lower bar) payout, and the cop gets to keep his job.

An update to the shoplifting-car-shooting incident.

We'll see how this plays out in court.

An Ohio police officer was indicted Tuesday on murder and other charges in the shooting of Ta’Kiya Young, a 21-year-old pregnant Black mother who was killed after being accused of shoplifting last August.

Young was suspected of stealing bottles of alcohol when Blendon Township police officer Connor Grubb and a fellow officer approached her car. The other officer ordered her out. Instead, she rolled forward toward Grubb, who fired a single bullet through her windshield into her chest. The daughter she was expecting three months later also died.

A Franklin County grand jury indicted Grubb on charges of murder, involuntary manslaughter and felonious assault in the death of Young and her baby. He is scheduled to be arraigned in court Wednesday. A warrant for his arrest was issued as part of the indictment.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Watching more police cam YT videos.

I am convinced that alcohol is the root of 80% of people doing stupid crap.

It's actually more like 40% according to official statistics.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

It's actually more like 40% according to official statistics.

I searched on that and from what I read, it's 40% of "violent crimes"

Violent crimes

According to the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence (NCADD), alcohol is a factor in 40% of violent crimes, including 37% of sexual assaults and rapes, 15% of robberies, 28% of aggravated assaults, and 25.5% of simple assaults. Victim reports also indicate that alcohol use is involved in 37% of rapes and sexual assaults, 15% of robberies, 27% of aggravated assaults, and 25% of simple assaults.

And then ...

Alcohol is also a factor in nearly 60% of robbery, theft, and property crimes that lead to incarceration. In 2016, 28% of all traffic-related deaths in the US involved a drunk driver.

So 40% violent, 60% of robbery, theft leading to incarceration. Which probably means 80% of "stupid crap" (e.g. including all the other stupid crap you see on YT) seems plausible.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Nornalized.

reuters.com

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...lorida-airman/

[miami_fan]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ger-rcna177437

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...off-rcna177564

[cuervo72]

Oh, they finally brought him in? Good. Yesterday the police were saying "oh, we don't want to force things because he's holed up and armed and don't want to create a dangerous situation." Don't want a dangerous situation? He's picking off neighbors from his window, what about that reads SAFE to you?

[RainMaker]

Yeah that was a bizarre story. What's all the fancy tanks and equipment for if you're staffed with a bunch of whimpering pussies?

[Radii]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

staffed with a bunch of whimpering pussies?

That was my main takeaway as well.

[Ghost Econ]

So we take our daughter to swim in Spartanburg from Greenville every day. It's a 45 minute drive on 85 there and 25 minutes back. The last 2 days we've seen 3 greyhound buses pulled over on 85 in Spartanburg. It seems the Spartanburg County Police are doing their annual "Rolling Thunder" operation where they board buses without probable cause to find people to arrest, drugs and seize cash from poor people. And people around here treat it as perfectly normal.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-gets-...y?id=112826997

White neighbor convicted of manslaughter in fatal shooting of Black mother is sentenced to 25 years | CNN

Susan Lorincz, the White woman who fatally shot Black neighbor Ajike “AJ” Owens through the door of her central Florida apartment during a dispute over children playing near her home, was sentenced Monday to 25 years in prison.

[PilotMan]

I'm sure trump will make sure this miscarriage of justice is righted.

[JPhillips]

The CEO of United Healthcare was killed in Manhattan this morning and it's being investigated as a possible hit.

[cuervo72]

lc:metos4p2yzc3tcdu6h7kszfz/app.bsky.feed.post/3lciesl5ul22y" data-bluesky-cid="bafyreif46re2mcb5bqknyhchxqaiumenobxmtcvbfode3pskifaljdukvu">

In a nation ruled by its oligarchs, the oligarchs become targets for assassination

RIP Brian Thompson of UnitedHealthcare, but this is also, in a weird way, a kind of a reality check

— Will Bunch (lc:metos4p2yzc3tcdu6h7kszfz?ref_src=embed">@willbunch.bsky.social) lc:metos4p2yzc3tcdu6h7kszfz/post/3lciesl5ul22y?ref_src=embed">December 4, 2024 at 9:35 AM

Not a good thing, but honestly, this was one of my first thoughts.

Another was that there's someone sick who REALLY got fucked by UHC policies and took it out on the CEO.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Another was that there's someone sick who REALLY got fucked by UHC policies and took it out on the CEO.

Or a relative of that person. I immediately went to the movie John Q.

Is it weird to hope the motive had something to do with an affair, embezzlement or even just a regular robbery as opposed to someone being screwed by UHC polices and taking it out the CEO?

[cuervo72]

Yeah, I probably should have worded that better -- husband whose wife wasn't cleared for some treatment, parent/grandparent of a child that died, etc. Probably not the actual patient (though maybe if they survived and now have a mountain of debt). But same logic.

[RainMaker]

Thoughts and prayers

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Is it weird to hope the motive had something to do with an affair, embezzlement or even just a regular robbery as opposed to someone being screwed by UHC polices and taking it out the CEO?

I feel the opposite. Maybe it will shine a light on to our broken healthcare system that allows people to die even though life saving treatment is available.

[Lathum]

Comments on Twitter about what you would expect.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I feel the opposite. Maybe it will shine a light on to our broken healthcare system that allows people to die even though life saving treatment is available.

The shareholders are much more willing to pay for extra security, armored vehicles etc. for the people responsible for maximizing their investments than they are providing such treatment to those that are... how do I put this kindly... less than worthy of it?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Thoughts and prayers

Unfortunately, those thoughts and prayers required pre-aproval, and the provider is out of service.

[GrantDawg]

The murder happens the same day Anthem declared they will only pay for anesthesia for a certain time period for procedures, and if the surgery goes long it will be out-of-pocket for the patient. I wonder why people hate insurance companies?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Unfortunately, those thoughts and prayers required pre-aproval, and the provider is out of service.

I'm a bad person for chuckling at this.

Personally, I don't have any issues with health insurance and would put equal (if not more blame) on our government. But I can definitely sympathize with anyone struggling to pay/rejected for healthcare.

Call me cynical, but I'd put fair odds at a disgruntled ex or husband. That seems just as likely.

[RainMaker]

If this dude takes out the Ticketmaster CEO they should make him a saint.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-shot-c...l_twitter_abcn

[Edward64]

The investigation: Detectives found a phone in the alley the gunman ran through that may have belonged to him. They also found a bottle of water that they believe the suspect bought at a Starbucks shortly before the shooting. The suspect was seen on video before the shooting carrying what appeared to be a battery for an electric bike. Investigators believe that the shooter may have taken a subway from the Upper West Side to Midtown and are looking into whether the electric bike he used to flee was pre-positioned nearby.

Seems pretty well planned & premeditated. There are CCTV cameras everywhere in businesses & residences. This guy better had kept his hoodie on, left town, and keeping low. Also, he better not have his cell phone on. Cops can track that pretty easily if they suspect you. Something from watching the cop YT videos,

An experienced shooter: Police recovered three live 9mm rounds and three discharged 9mm shell casings from the scene. The words “deny,” “defend” and “depose” were found on the casings, ABC News reported, citing police sources. Detectives believe the gunman operated in a way that suggested he was an experienced marksman, police officials told CNN. The shooter also used what appeared to be a silencer on the gun.

Weird, doesn't sound like an ex or husband, nor a personal vendetta. Maybe a SJW Unabomber like that's taken it to an extreme.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

If this dude takes out the Ticketmaster CEO they should make him a saint.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-shot-c...l_twitter_abcn

With the words on the shell casings "service fee" and "delivery fee."

[Passacaglia]

I figure way more likely to be someone who lost a loved one due to UHC not covering something than an ex or a husband or SJW.

[Edward64]

FWIW

Message on bullets fired by healthcare CEO’s assassin bear eerie link to book condemning insurance companies

Sources said several of the pieces of evidence each contained one word, indicating the shooter may have been trying to leave a message.

[GrantDawg]

They have pictures of the guy's face, and now we know it was John Cusack's character from Gross Pointe Blank. Be on the lookout for someone with a Minnie Driver look alike.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I figure way more likely to be someone who lost a loved one due to UHC not covering something than an ex or a husband or SJW.

That seems likely but this seemed so professional. Maybe former military. The guy dealt in dark circles so who knows.

[Ksyrup]

I assume it would be a hired hitman because with previous threats about "loss of coverage" (mentioned by the wife) and the message on the shell casings, it's already going to lead to scrutiny of people involved in certain contentious UHC claims as it is. A picture of an actual family member directly involved would be too easy.

But, people are stupid. Especially when angered into making an irational decision to murder someone.

[Lathum]

What is SJW?

[RainMaker]

I just wonder if the shell casing is a red herring that a professional would use to throw off the scent.

[Ksyrup]

I'm sure they are also looking into personal issues, as well as investor-related gripes (it was an investor conference he was attending). So it might throw off the scent for a bit, but I can't imagine they would exclude any other possibilities.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

What is SJW?

Social Justice Warrior. Usually not used literally. Basically a conservative slur for someone who is too progressive.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

FWIW

I just got back from taking my mother to a doctor's appointment. She used to be the head of a hospital's patient accounts department and dealt with insurance companies on a daily basis. She is also dealing with significant short term memory loss but has tremendous long term memory. As soon I told her about "deny, defend, depose" being on the bullets, she instantly described the negative connotation of those words for patients and patient account departments.

[CrimsonFox]

How the fuck is able to just walk away from something like that and disappear in a major city.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

How the fuck is able to just walk away from something like that and disappear in a major city.

Who wants to stop him and risk being put on trial for it?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Who wants to stop him and risk being put on trial for it?

Isn't there another thread on this board right now about a potential Good Samaritan in New York being on trial?

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Who wants to stop him and risk being put on trial for it?

I mean cops. Especially those right inside a convention center or wherever they were.