All things about Cars, Trucks & SUVs

[Ksyrup]

I can't get over the description of how you do anything INSIDE the car. Everything is through an app and swipes - no buttons, normal sticks to shift gears, turn on headlights, wipers, etc.

It's insane.

This isn't specifically a Tesla critique, but I've often wondered how we allow such obvious incompatible/competing ideas in this country as "we're loading every car we sell with more and more tech to distract drivers" and LE/governments running programs to stop/limit distracted driving. It's really weird.

[Edward64]

Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. agreed this week to build upon a preliminary deal first reached in March, offering more details of how they plan to work together and also adding Mitsubishi Motors Corp. to the mix. While the companies haven’t yet discussed a capital alliance, forming one is a possibility, Honda Chief Executive Officer Toshihiro Mibe said.

Nice. Honda has a better design team than Nissan. Hopefully the Z gen 2 will look less fugly

[Edward64]

I've been critical of Joe and Mayor Pete's implementation of chargers since the passage of the Infrastructure Bill (3 years ago). I mean, the money is there, the chargers are not, and therefore the only reason is the "process" which Mayor Pete is charged with executing.

So read below this morning and thought to myself, okay maybe I was wrong to be so critical.

EV charging gets another massive funding push from Biden administration - The Verge

The Biden administration says that the number of EV charging stations in the US has doubled since 2021 as it announces another round of grants for states looking to install more charging locations.

The administration claims that there are now over 192,000 publicly available charging ports in the US, with approximately 1,000 new public chargers being added each week. That’s up from approximately 100,000 ports that were in operation at the outset of 2021 when President Joe Biden first took office.

But then reading on ...

But the process has been slow going; in March, The Washington Post reported that only seven charging stations with 38 ports have been opened under the administration’s National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program.

I'm not sure I know the nuances behind the discrepancy of "doubling vs 38" but assume it's because of the commercial/private sector taking the initiative.

The money is there. All I want is a network of reliable, compatible fast charging stations every 30-50 miles across interstates and highways.

[Ksyrup]

I just read an article about a Cybertruck that caught fire in Texas after hitting a fire hydrant. It caught fire specifically because the battery was soaked by water from the hydrant, according to the article.

That sounds like something that shouldn't happen, right?

[stevew]

Saw a new electric Escalade tonight and that thing was super sharp looking.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I just read an article about a Cybertruck that caught fire in Texas after hitting a fire hydrant. It caught fire specifically because the battery was soaked by water from the hydrant, according to the article.

That sounds like something that shouldn't happen, right?

Much like all car companies needed to learn how to minimize the chance of the fuel tank catching fire in a crash, it appears that Tesla will need to learn how to minimize the chance of a battery catching fire when exposed to water (and, presumably, shorting out).

A while ago I read a description of Tesla as being a company that was still learning engineering lessons that were learned by the rest of the auto industry decades ago. So, this and other failures are not surprising.

They got out to a good start with a combination of early mover advantage and essentially being extra-diligent about each car to roll off the assembly line, but it is now catching up to them and I wouldn't own any Tesla car, just on quality control basics alone.

[Brian Swartz]

EVs continuing to stagnate, hybrid sales increasing in both the US and Europe (China is doing better on EVs notably). Theorized culprits are the usual apparently; slow infrastructure development, many of the people who are interested in EVs already have them at this point (mostly in the wealthier income ranges), resale value has been poor which adds to their effective cost, etc.

[damnMikeBrown]

Originally Posted by stevew

Saw a new electric Escalade tonight and that thing was super sharp looking.

I’ve been closely following these.
I wasn’t aware that they were out in the wild yet!

You saw a unicorn!

Looking at it as a possible hockey parent transport.

[stevew]

It had Michigan plates. Probably an engineer at GM. I’ve seen a bunch of unicorn vehicles. Like I saw a Canoo at one point and also a Lordstown pickup. I’m not sure the electric Escalade is much bigger than an EV9

[Edward64]

Possible Nissan bankruptcy in the news past couple days.

No surprise, they've been struggling for years and there's something obviously wrong. My guess is future of the Z is on shaky ground, not a volume seller (e.g. I have yet to see a Z on the road).

FWIW, the grill on the original doesn't look too bad at an angle. But facing it, it's an eyesore. Nismo version with the reworked front grill looks much better. That's what they should have gone with originally.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

In addition to the robotaxi announcement, there were a couple articles about how Elon is cancelling the < $30k cheaper Teslas.

That's not confirmed yet, I'd put that under speculation right now, and really hope that's not true.

Happy to be wrong!

Look like there will be a Model Q $30k a coming soon (assuming Trump keeps, and the Model Q is eligible, for the tax credit)

A new report from Deutsche Bank suggests that a sub-$30,000 Tesla unofficially nicknamed "Model Q" is on the way. According to the report, the $30,000 figure includes the current $7500 tax credit promised in the Inflation Reduction Act.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Possible Nissan bankruptcy in the news past couple days.

I like the idea of some sort of merger but am concerned that Nissan/Mitsubishi will drag down/distract Honda. I can see this new merger be the asian version of Stellantis.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/17/japa...ger-talks.html

Honda and Nissan are considering operating under a holding company, and soon will sign a memorandum of understanding, according to the report. They also look to eventually bring Mitsubishi Motors, in which Nissan is the top shareholder with a 24% stake, under the holding company.

[GrantDawg]

I'm back looking for a used truck/suv. I'm trying to find something below 20k without lots of miles. There are more options now than there were 2 years ago when I got my Colorado. I just need something with a little more towing capacity than the 4 cylinder is giving me.

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[Atocep]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I'm back looking for a used truck/suv. I'm trying to find something below 20k without lots of miles. There are more options now than there were 2 years ago when I got my Colorado. I just need something with a little more towing capacity than the 4 cylinder is giving me.

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We're kind of passively looking at Trucks now as a 2nd vehicle. We don't tow anything but could definitely use something with a bed. Right now we're leaning toward a hybrid Maverick but we're not dead set on anything specific yet.

[GrantDawg]

I love the Mavericks, and technically it could tow my boat (just a 16 ft bass boat). But I have a fear of the tiny truck being able to pull the boat out of the water and not being pulled in.

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[GrantDawg]

Car dealerships are just so dumb. I decided I was going to bite the bullet and see about buying a new Tacoma. I went to a dealership I have bought multiple cars from (two Camry's and a Corolla). My sales guy is retired, but a nice young guy was trying to help me out. Found a Tacoma that was more than I wanted, but the guy promised they would try to make it work. They go to evaluate my truck, and then come back with an offer. They will basically give me nearly nothing for my truck, and added made up fees to add thousands to the new truck. I shut it down right then, told them to give me my keys and left.
They have called me 5 times since I left, and just now they offered me everything I wanted to the number. Problem is I have had time to think about it, I don't want to pay for a new truck. They made me mad enough to really think about things, and I'm better off driving what have for a few more years. If they had just made a reasonable offer to start with I would have bought it yesterday. Now, I have no interest no matter the deal.

[sovereignstar v2]

Yeah, they want to fuck you on your trade-in as much as they can. I generally do as many of those online trade-in estimators, print them out, and show up with a manila folder full of shit to show them I've done my research. Beyond that, I've also gone to other dealerships only to get trade-in estimates. When I bought my last car I also told them I was going to a competing dealer an hour north afterwards no matter what, even though I had no intention to do so. I walked out getting exactly what I wanted for my trade-in without much fuss.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2

Yeah, they want to fuck you on your trade-in as much as they can. I generally do as many of those online trade-in estimators, print them out, and show up with a manila folder full of shit to show them I've done my research. Beyond that, I've also gone to other dealerships only to get trade-in estimates. When I bought my last car I also told them I was going to a competing dealer an hour north afterwards no matter what, even though I had no intention to do so. I walked out getting exactly what I wanted for my trade-in without much fuss.

I usually do Carmax on the trade, becausew they will just give you a cash offer. That way you have a base for the trade if the dealership won't give it to you. I just didn't drive out to Carmax before I went by the dealership this time.

[GrantDawg]

And then my wife told me to get the truck, so now I'm getting the truck.

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[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I usually do Carmax on the trade, becausew they will just give you a cash offer. That way you have a base for the trade if the dealership won't give it to you. I just didn't drive out to Carmax before I went by the dealership this time.

I always show up with my own financing and trade-in ready to go. If they match/beat either, great. I also rarely show up before I've negotiated the price over email. We're basically doing a test drive and a bit of small haggling when I've decided to buy. That's it.

Also fun to get into the "box" with the finance guy when he tries to sell me the warranty and protection products and I tell him I'm an attorney in the warranty industry and if he wants to sell me a warranty, he can cut his price by 2/3s if he wants a sale bad enough, otherwise I'm not contributing to his huge profit margin.

[GrantDawg]

I'm normally there, but this was sort of a moon shot kind of deal that I really didn't expect to make. In the end, the numbers were much better than I even expected.

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[Atocep]

We sold my wife's car at Carmax during the covid spike in used prices. She works from home now and they offered us more than we expected so we went down to a single vehicle.

When we bought our Bronco the dealership was actually fantastic to work with. They gave me a solid offer on my jeep, no hassle, didn't charge us destination fees or anything else for it to ship from backorder. It was just, "this is the price, here's your trade in value, here's the rebates you qualify for, this is what you owe." For the Jeep they actually said i could get more from a private sale and recommended I try that while waiting on the Bronco to ship but I was comfortable with the offer they gave and didn't want to deal with people trying to haggle me down on a private sale.

Now that we're considering the Maverick we'll likely start at the same dealership and if it's a similar experience we'll buy from them again.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I always show up with my own financing and trade-in ready to go. If they match/beat either, great.

Yeah, me too. They typically low ball me first and then I show them CarMax quote and they match it.

Also fun to get into the "box" with the finance guy when he tries to sell me the warranty and protection products and I tell him I'm an attorney in the warranty industry and if he wants to sell me a warranty, he can cut his price by 2/3s if he wants a sale bad enough, otherwise I'm not contributing to his huge profit margin.

I never get the warranty and protection stuff. Didn't know but may try the 2/3 trick next time.

Originally Posted by Atocep

Now that we're considering the Maverick we'll likely start at the same dealership and if it's a similar experience we'll buy from them again.

We had a very good experience with a Toyota sales person. Actually, the best ever. Basically, told him via email exchanges, this is what we want, this is how much TrueCar says is fair, don't want to buy any other add-ons etc. He told me to come down and test out the car, he warned that he's going to be obligated to try upsell some stuff but he "understands what I want". He made it happen and we got some free upgrades (tint, mats).

He's going to get the first shot at our business when we check out RAV4 vs CRV.

[GrantDawg]

The Rav4 does look good. It would have been tempting if they had any kind of decent towing capacity.

[GrantDawg]

Btw, got to drive the truck around more today, and have to say I am so happy. This has long been my dream truck, and I never imagined I'd actually ever own one. My wife pushing me to get it while also chipping in to make it happen makes her the best wife in the world.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I never get the warranty and protection stuff. Didn't know but may try the 2/3 trick next time.

Pricing will vary. Some dealerships may have a standard pricing chart they use, but they'll also judge what you can afford and bump up the price trying to max out their profit margins. There are several layers adding their own mark-up. On the front-end, you've got the obligor/insurer who sell at "wholesale" cost to MV finance companies, who mark it up and sell to their dealerships, who then add their own mark-ups. In most states, MV service contracts are not insurance, so there's no rate regulation. They will charge whatever a customer is willing (or stupid enough) to pay.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Pricing will vary. Some dealerships may have a standard pricing chart they use, but they'll also judge what you can afford and bump up the price trying to max out their profit margins. There are several layers adding their own mark-up. On the front-end, you've got the obligor/insurer who sell at "wholesale" cost to MV finance companies, who mark it up and sell to their dealerships, who then add their own mark-ups. In most states, MV service contracts are not insurance, so there's no rate regulation. They will charge whatever a customer is willing (or stupid enough) to pay.

On the new car side, this is where their largest profit margin comes from. Financing and the service add ons are way more valuable than the little mark up and factory side rebates they get from a new car sale. The finance person generally makes more bank than even the sales manager. Their second highest profit center service, followed by used cars.

[Edward64]

I have visited Norway and was struck by how many EVs I saw. Many, many Teslas, some European brands also. But remember seeing a couple Mustang EVs which seemed weird to me.

Grocery stores, gas stations, innocuous places etc. had charging stations. I did ask a local about this, he said they had alot of hydro (fjords) but they were reaching a breakeven point where they would not be able to generate enough electricity for all the EVs. Not sure what their plans are. Also, government subsidizes EV sales, something like don't have to pay sales tax on them.

So, congrats Norway.

reuters.com

Nine out of ten new cars sold in Norway last year were powered by battery only, registration data showed on Thursday, placing the country within reach of its target of only adding cars that are electric on the road by 2025.

Fully electric vehicles accounted for 88.9% of new cars sold in 2024, up from 82.4% in 2023, data from the Norwegian Road Federation (OFV) showed.

Top-selling brands were Tesla (TSLA.O), opens new tab, followed by Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE), opens new tab and Toyota (7203.T), opens new tab. Chinese EVs now account for almost 10% of new car sales.

[Edward64]

Oh com'on, what the frak are they smoking in Detroit?

If I had $325K spending money, I sure as heck wouldn't be spending it on a Mustang.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/09/ford...f-america.html

Ford reveals a special edition of its $325,000 Mustang GTD called ‘Spirit of America’

[Ksyrup]

If they called it Gulf of America they could charge twice that much.

[Fidatelo]

If you buy that do you have to try to jump it over a canyon?

[Edward64]

Couple EVs around $30k for 2026. We're talking about a new car in 2027 so that gives it 1 year to work out any kinks. The real questions are mileage and will infrastructure have improved?

According to Nikkei, Honda plans to launch a smaller EV priced under $30,000 in the US as early as 2026. It will be made locally, starting with the batteries, to cut costs. The new EV is expected to be the entry-level model for its upcoming Honda 0 Series. It will be a cornerstone for Honda’s global expansion.

Although GM discontinued its iconic Bolt EV, the smaller electric car is due to make a comeback in 2026
:
It’s also expected to start at around $30,000 or less.

[GrantDawg]

Going car shopping with the son today. He is looking at used hybrids. He had his eye on a 2020 Ford Fusion hybrid SE but it sold. We are planning to go test drive another 2020 Ford Fusion Hybrid, but this one the top trim. We also might go look at a new Nissan Kicks. He is just not a car guy, so he doesn't seem to really know what he wants, other than dependable, high fuel efficiency, roomy, and a good value. He was originally leaning toward a Prius, but he seems to have cooled on that.

[GrantDawg]

He is going with the Kicks. He liked the Corolla Hybrid but it sat too low. He has gotten used to driving my truck. He really liked the Corolla Cross, but there are just none on lots. Plus, the Kicks has a better price.

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[Edward64]

Nice. His first car?

[GrantDawg]

Yes. He is excited and nervous at the same time.

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[Edward64]

Ah, fond memories.

First car was a hand me down. 77 Chevy Caprice. And boy was it a clunker. That car lives till this day through my (somewhat unreasonable) strong preference to NOT buy a US car made in Detroit.

[GrantDawg]

Mine was a 71 Mercury Montego with a 351 and 411 rear end. That sucker was way more car than I ever should have had. Somehow, I survived without totaling it, but there were times I came close.

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[flere-imsaho]

We ended up getting our son a 2023 Mazda3, which was a bit surprising. I figured he would have wanted to go for an SUV or something, but he really likes my car, which is a 2017 Mazda3, so that's what we went looking for.

The main differences are that mine is fully loaded and his is mid-range, and mine is manual transmission while his is automatic (otherwise I'd be getting the new car and him the old).

I've always loved Mazdas, going back to my Dad's 93 626, and they're safe, reliable, and not expensive to fix with decent gas mileage. He's enjoying it so far, and it probably sets him apart given that literally almost every other HS student at his school has some version of an SUV.

[Edward64]

A flying car

Okay, maybe more like a hovering & moving car. But still impressive

World's first electric flying car hops over another vehicle [Video]

the Model A became the first vehicle of its kind to obtain a Special Airworthiness Certification from the US Federal Aviation Administration. Alef even became the first company with pre-orders to sell an aircraft through a car dealership.

Alef said it’s the “first-ever video in history of a car driving and vertically taking off.” Although previous videos have shown tethered flights, cars using a runway to take off, and eVTOL flying taxis taking off, this is the first public video of a car actually driving and taking off vertically on a city street. The road was blocked off for safety.

Look at :40 secs and about 1:20 in.

Way too early (and expensive) for me now, and looks real beta'ish (rough) but am rooting for all the early adopters. But in 2035, who knows ...

To date, the electric flying car has secured 3,300 pre-orders. Prices are expected to start at around $300,000. You can pre-order yours on Alef’s website for a $150 deposit. For $1,500, you can reserve a spot in the priority queue.

The company plans to begin Model A production later this year, with the first deliveries scheduled to follow. Alef is already working on its second flying car, “Model Z,” which is expected to start at around $35,000. It’s set to launch in 2035.

[Edward64]

Supposed pic of new RAV 4

I like the front. No pic of the rear though. CRV and RAV 4 are the top contenders when we decide to get a new car.

https://carbuzz.com/leaked-2026-toyota-rav4/

A new Toyota has leaked online in China, and it could be our first look at one of the company's most important models. A single image was posted yesterday, and it shows what is believed to be the first look at the 2026 Toyota RAV4.

The model is reportedly the Wildlander, a model built by the GAC Toyota joint venture in China. However, the Wildlander is just a Toyota RAV4 with a slightly different nose, so if a new version of that SUV is coming, a new version of the RAV4 has to be right behind it.

[Ksyrup]

I don't know if this is true or not, but if so... you hate to see it.

Many Cybertruck owners reported trying to trade-in the truck for a new vehicle and they were told that the automaker currently doesn't accept its own vehicle as a trade-in.

Some owners who have had their trucks in service for extended periods of time are also trying to get Tesla to take the truck back, but the company is forcing them to go through the Lemon Law process.

...Used Cybertruck prices are down 55% year over year, 13% over the last three months, and 6% over the last month.

As Tesla doesn't take the Cybertruck as a trade-in, other used car dealers are also reticent about buying the vehicle. They have been known to give low-ball offers to potential sellers as they wait to see where the price will stabilize."

[Edward64]

I think I’m the only one here that expressed a desire to buy one if I had the disposable income. But all things considered now, why lose money and be a target for keying (and worse)

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I think I’m the only one here that expressed a desire to buy one if I had the disposable income. But all things considered now, why lose money and be a target for keying (and worse)

Or maybe... why support the Nazi?

[flere-imsaho]

Come now, Edward would have bought a VW from Hitler in 1939. It's just an economic transaction.

[Ghost Econ]

He would have purchased a VW and driven through the camps over the dying Jews and Poles who shouldn't have come to Germany in the first place.

[Edward64]

Oh well, another non-political, fun thread going political. Who would have figured

[flere-imsaho]

The fact that a lot of people can have reasonable conversations in non-political threads with Jon and not with you ought to tell you a lot about yourself, Edward.

[Edward64]

Or it says a lot about them

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Or it says a lot about them

Insert Seymour Skinner meme