Ongoing pro/college basketball thread (2023-24)

[HerRealName]

It sucks to see Watkins go down with an ACL. She's a serious contender for the MJ of women's basketball. I've watched more USC games this year than Ohio State games.

[albionmoonlight]

NIL/Transfers look to have pretty much ended the era of the Cinderellas even making the Sweet 16.

If you're a smaller team who happens to luck into recruiting a player who turns out to be great, he not gonna to lead you to the Elite 8 as a senior. He's just gonna transfer into the Big 10 after his freshman year.

That said, the lack of Cinderella teams does make for some heavy hitting Sweet 16 games.

All depends on what you like, I suppose.

[Ksyrup]

Over 700 players in the portal today. Last year, day 1 had 291 hit the portal. College sports really sucks right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Right on cue

Drake star guard Bennett Stirtz plans to enter the transfer portal and follow coach Ben McCollum to Iowa, he told The Field of 68 on Tuesday.

Stirtz, one of the biggest breakout stars of the 2024-25 college basketball season, spent one season with the Bulldogs after transferring from Division II Northwest Missouri State when McCollum left for Drake.

A 6-foot-4 point guard, Stirtz won Missouri Valley Player of the Year and led the country in minutes played.

Meanwhile St. Francis (PA) announced intent to move all sports to D3 by 2026

[BishopMVP]

Do people think the cap will drag the SEC back to the pack as football uses up a big chunk at most schools (and a conference like the Big East rise), or will those schools just be able to skirt it in the gray area enough to keep it going down there?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

NIL/Transfers look to have pretty much ended the era of the Cinderellas even making the Sweet 16.

If you're a smaller team who happens to luck into recruiting a player who turns out to be great, he not gonna to lead you to the Elite 8 as a senior. He's just gonna transfer into the Big 10 after his freshman year.

That said, the lack of Cinderella teams does make for some heavy hitting Sweet 16 games.

All depends on what you like, I suppose.

And when the ratings decline because of the lack of upsets, the lesson learned by the powers that be will be that the auto bids for smaller conferences are not warranted anymore.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by bronconick

And when the ratings decline because of the lack of upsets, the lesson learned by the powers that be will be that the auto bids for smaller conferences are not warranted anymore.

When power conference AD's and Presidents can either be fired or make 6 figure bonuses for making the tournament, and we let them make the rules and pick the at large teams of course we're going to get more power conference teams in.

The only answer seems to be enforceable multi year contracts at this point. There's a reason the NBA, NFL, etc don't allow everyone to enter free agency every season.

[Ksyrup]

I'm all for paying players and even free movement, but the combination of both, with barely any rules/restrictions, means a bunch of student-athletes (or pre-professionals, in some cases) have more rights and less restrictions to make money playing sports than actual professionals. It's insane.

[bhlloy]

Well over 3 players per D1 team in the portal right now, closer to 4. I'm in the same boat... I'm glad players are getting a share of the pie but where we are going to end up is a watered down pro setup rather than college sports as we know it. And the courts seem more likely to strike down a level playing field and enforceable contracts rather than move towards it. No idea what the solution is.

[Atocep]

WVU hires Ross Hodge from North Texas. He's from the Grant McCasland/Mark Adam's tree. I'm excited for the pack line to come to Morgantown.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

No idea what the solution is.

Unionize the players and get a CBA.

It'll be weird the first time college games are cancelled due to a strike. But we'll get used to it.

[Arles]

The first step would be 2-year contracts for NIL payments with two exceptions:
1. A player can enter the draft after one season if good enough.
2. A player can transfer after one season if the coach leaves

Seems like a pretty sensible starting point. I would also like to see some form of "transfer fee" for non power 5 schools if a kid gets poached to a bigger program. This would allow that program to use that money as NIL to try and partially replace him.

[BishopMVP]

https://twitter.com/cobrastats/statu...48292409237518
vs
https://twitter.com/cobrastats/statu...86579764556144

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Unionize the players and get a CBA.

It'll be weird the first time college games are cancelled due to a strike. But we'll get used to it.

And who will be on the other side of the CBA?

I suspect it will get to a point where it will be with the leader of whatever the SEC-Big Ten league is but still. Also how does that jive with the student part of the student-athlete?

I have to be honest though. I have heard too many complaints about Cinderella making the regular season worthless or ruining the second weekend of the tournament to get too riled up about it. The love for Cinderella usually dissipated before its Sweet Sixteen game began. The best teams in the regular season are proving to be the best teams of the postseason and that is a good thing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Unionize the players and get a CBA.

It'll be weird the first time college games are cancelled due to a strike. But we'll get used to it.

Better to just put an end to it all at this point.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Arles

The first step would be 2-year contracts for NIL payments with two exceptions:
1. A player can enter the draft after one season if good enough.
2. A player can transfer after one season if the coach leaves

Seems like a pretty sensible starting point. I would also like to see some form of "transfer fee" for non power 5 schools if a kid gets poached to a bigger program. This would allow that program to use that money as NIL to try and partially replace him.

There’s no end of obvious suggestions to make things better. I probably worded this poorly. But how do you actually enforce any of this? The NCAA has already been shown to be totally toothless in any court fight. You have Oregon taking even the slightly restrictive things they’ve put in place today to a sympathetic state judiciary, you’ve had judges and lawmakers in multiple southern states wading in. There’s absolutely no chance the NCAA can put these things in place and have them stick, they will get pulled apart from every direction.

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Unionize the players and get a CBA.

It'll be weird the first time college games are cancelled due to a strike. But we'll get used to it.

Bingo. This is where it ends up at which point they aren’t college athletes any more. You might get a 30 team league where you have a team called the Alabama Crimson Tide and the Michigan Wolverines, but it’s not college sports in any form we know it any more and the vast majority of schools are just not going to want the headache to be at that level. Or basically what the two posts above mine say in different ways.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I have to be honest though. I have heard too many complaints about Cinderella making the regular season worthless or ruining the second weekend of the tournament to get too riled up about it. The love for Cinderella usually dissipated before its Sweet Sixteen game began. The best teams in the regular season are proving to be the best teams of the postseason and that is a good thing.

Funny, I couldn’t disagree with this part more. Without the upsets and teams that come out of nowhere to make runs my interest in the tournament goes down about 95%. Each to their own.

[HerRealName]

Kevin Willard was negotiating to leave Maryland for Villanova while preparing and playing in the NCAA tournament. For as much as players get criticized, coaches are every bit as bad.

[Atocep]

Darian DeVries had a deal agreed to with Indiana by mid Feb while continuing to negotiate an extension with WVU that he never intended to sign.

He left in about as shitty of a way as a coach can and didn't bother to address the players or make the standard release thanking fans, etc. He's a good coach, but most of these guys aren't good people.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Darian DeVries had a deal agreed to with Indiana by mid Feb while continuing to negotiate an extension with WVU that he never intended to sign.

He left in about as shitty of a way as a coach can and didn't bother to address the players or make the standard release thanking fans, etc. He's a good coach, but most of these guys aren't good people.

And he's moving to a team where the fanbase is already openly hostile towards him. I'm not hostile, but I'm really skeptical about how you fix a program that didn't make the tournament two years in a row by hiring a coach who also did not make the tournament.

This is a team that fired a coach with multiple sweet sixteens with the program recently because it wasn't good enough. Mike Woodson is a legend in the program and he got ran out in what was less than three years. He was allowed to finish his third because of his stature at Indiana.

If DeVries doesn't make a tournament in his first two years, which will be tough with everyone transferring, I'd say he's done. If he doesn't win atleast one tournament game in three years (this is assuming he makes it year 2 and 3) I'd say he's done. After that he really needs to produce. I honestly don't know that he is that guy but we will see.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by dubb93

And he's moving to a team where the fanbase is already openly hostile towards him. I'm not hostile, but I'm really skeptical about how you fix a program that didn't make the tournament two years in a row by hiring a coach who also did not make the tournament.

This is a team that fired a coach with multiple sweet sixteens with the program recently because it wasn't good enough. Mike Woodson is a legend in the program and he got ran out in what was less than three years. He was allowed to finish his third because of his stature at Indiana.

If DeVries doesn't make a tournament in his first two years, which will be tough with everyone transferring, I'd say he's done. If he doesn't win atleast one tournament game in three years (this is assuming he makes it year 2 and 3) I'd say he's done. After that he really needs to produce. I honestly don't know that he is that guy but we will see.

He's a very good coach with everything on the court. He understands the game, handles rotations well, and gets the most out of a group of players.

Off the court, he's a mess. Our AD put his staff together because he was struggling that bad to land assistants. He is going to be awful with donors. For as fiery as he is on the court, he is really socially awkward and lacks personality off of it.

He can be a great coach and have a ton of success at Indiana but probably needs and AD willing to do some of the lifting for him.

[Swaggs]

Devries rolled a 0 in charisma. When I'd watch his press conferences, they would make me uncomfortable because he looked and sounded so nervous.

I will say that, in my opinion, Devries seems like a really good defensive coach and did a really good job at WVU to put together a very competitive roster in a short period of time. Ending 19-13 and 10-10 in conference while losing 2 of the 3 best offensive players left me feeling like he squeezed as much out of the guys we had as he could and, if health had been better, we would have won more like 22-24 games and been an upper seed. The pieces all fit together really well, which is something I don't think we had under Huggins (maybe ever). Huggins would get talented players that didn't fit together or somehow snag really good offensive players and chase them off when they weren't good at defending.

I think Devries will struggle at Indiana because he doesn't know how to (or care to) do the off the court stuff around the community and with donors. That was going to wear thin at WVU and even more quickly so at a place like Indiana.

[HerRealName]

I don't get that flagrant on Reese at all. He was the one that got hit in the face. The SEC came out to home cooking in the 2nd half in both games.

[HerRealName]

I fell asleep and missed all of the 2nd half of the Arkansas - TT game. Getting old sucks. I wasn't able to will Arkansas to victory and now I owe my daughter and her boyfriend dinner.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think Devries will struggle at Indiana because he doesn't know how to (or care to) do the off the court stuff around the community and with donors. That was going to wear thin at WVU and even more quickly so at a place like Indiana.

That sounds like he's the opposite of Tom Crean. The local community here in Bloomington loved Crean because he was such a solid, stand-up guy. It was the X's and O's that were the problem.

On the other hand, never underestimate the average IU fan's willing to tolerate off-the-court issues or lack of charisma if you're winning. Bobby Knight was an absolute asshole and routinely horrible in public, but a solid chunk of (older) IU fans would hire him again tomorrow because of 'member berries.

[Swaggs]

There are rumors (conspiracy theories) that Devries and Indiana had been in touch for several months and had a deal ironed out before the end of the season. These are based on the late season slump, the fact that Woodson/Indiana knew they were making a change midseason, that WVU and Indiana both played in the same in-season tournament (so admins and donors were around in the Bahamas at the same time as Devries), and that Devries son (who was two time MVC POTY at Drake and did well in the early season at WVU) opted to take a medical redshirt despite seemingly playing well before "reinjuring" himself (and the team really being in need).

I don't know or believe all that, but it is possible, if Devries did have his foot out the door, he didn't want to play the political/fundraiser games or spend the time/effort with the WVU alums, so that may end up not being a problem at Indiana if that is/was the case.

One of the comments when there was talk of him leaving was that "he has no inner circle (at WVU)," so there were no rumors spilling and none of the "insiders (who buy their way in with donations and such)" knew anything around his departure. Him coming to terms with Indiana came along a lot more quickly than people expected.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Not sure I get this, but okay

Taylor Jenkins fired as Grizzlies coach after six seasons - ESPN

[miami_fan]

The Grizzlies have fired HC Taylor Jenkins with the team in 5th place in the West and nine game left in the season. Given the front office purged the staff of all but two of his assistants from last year and those two were hired prior to the 23-24 season, it was unlikely Jenkins was going to make it beyond this season regardless of what happened in the playoffs.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not sure I get this, but okay

Taylor Jenkins fired as Grizzlies coach after six seasons - ESPN

In addition to my post, the Grizzlies have a 2.5 game lead over the Warriors and a 3 game lead over the T-Wolves to try and stay out of the play-in.

[RainMaker]

Not a lot of NBA talk here but last night's Bulls-Lakers game had a final 12 seconds for the ages.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The Grizzlies have fired HC Taylor Jenkins with the team in 5th place in the West and nine game left in the season. Given the front office purged the staff of all but two of his assistants from last year and those two were hired prior to the 23-24 season, it was unlikely Jenkins was going to make it beyond this season regardless of what happened in the playoffs.

But looking at it, I don't see anything more than a 3rd-5th place roster there so it's not like they're significantly underachieving or something. Feels more like an NHL firing (team position, timing, etc) than an NBA one, at least to me.

[Ksyrup]

The coaching merry-go-round of "if this, then that" continues with Buzz Williams apparently ready to ditch TX A&M for Maryland if Willard leaves.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But looking at it, I don't see anything more than a 3rd-5th place roster there so it's not like they're significantly underachieving or something. Feels more like an NHL firing (team position, timing, etc) than an NBA one, at least to me.

There probably is a little Lou Lamoriello bump expectation involved as well.

However this is pretty much the same team that had finished 2nd in the conference in consecutive years prior to last year where their star players had injury and other issues. Those young Grizzlie teams were significantly ahead of a similarly young team like OKC by 30 and 11 games both of those seasons. I am sure Grizzlie leadership don't see themselves as being seventeen games worse than OKC. As usual, the coach is the easiest thing to change as I don't think the front office thinks the roster is flawed.

It probably did not help things that there have been a few negative player interactions throughout this year though none as serious as the ones with Ja last year.

[miami_fan]

The HVL revenge tour continues!

Oh not really a revenge tour, but too many knowledgeable basketball folks were talking about Hailey Van Lith like she was a bum on the court.

[INDalltheway]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

The Grizzlies have fired HC Taylor Jenkins with the team in 5th place in the West and nine game left in the season. Given the front office purged the staff of all but two of his assistants from last year and those two were hired prior to the 23-24 season, it was unlikely Jenkins was going to make it beyond this season regardless of what happened in the playoffs.

I love that Grizzlies moved on him right now. They may have the guy already on staff and they are giving him a 10 game interim shot and the playoffs to see if he is the guy. Iisalo was potentially going to get a HC gig in the offseason and I'm sure the Grizz would feel silly if he is as good of a coach as it appears he could be. The 4th quarter coaching/rotations Wednesday night at the Thunder was malpractice - the straw that broke the camels back. I respect the move as a new Grizzlies fan this year(Zach Edey fan).


As for cbb, tough ending for my Boilers last night vs Houston. Tough whistle the last 4 mins but next year should be special if they can keep their core and add a few pieces in the portal.

[HerRealName]

I think I'd play Haugh 30+ minutes if I were coaching Florida.

[HerRealName]

The Texas Tech deja vu in reverse is wild.

[bhlloy]

Unbelievable meltdown by Texas Tech. Just done every single thing wrong you possibly can when it matters.

[JPhillips]

Yeah. I though Florida was cooked and then a few shots, missed TT free throws, and suddenly it was tied.

[bhlloy]

I didn’t pay attention to how they used the TOs other than the last one but to have to go that long without having any to be able to calm things down has to be on the coach too.

Credit to Florida for hitting the shots but really that should have been a winnable situation just by not allowing open 3’s, going deep into the shot clock and hitting your free throws. Feels like the Falcons Pats Super Bowl a bit.

[Lathum]

Duke looks unbeatable.

They absolutely dismantled a great Bama team tonight.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Do people think the cap will drag the SEC back to the pack as football uses up a big chunk at most schools (and a conference like the Big East rise), or will those schools just be able to skirt it in the gray area enough to keep it going down there?

I suspect the Big 10 having far richer alumni is what's going to push the SEC back into the pack.

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm all for paying players and even free movement, but the combination of both, with barely any rules/restrictions, means a bunch of student-athletes (or pre-professionals, in some cases) have more rights and less restrictions to make money playing sports than actual professionals. It's insane.

Maybe it's because I went to a D3 school and have no rooting affiliation to a D1 program, but it all seems fine to me.

Originally Posted by Arles

The first step would be 2-year contracts for NIL payments with two exceptions:
1. A player can enter the draft after one season if good enough.
2. A player can transfer after one season if the coach leaves

Seems reasonable to me.

[Ksyrup]

Houston makes Bennett-era UVA look watchable. I want to see their D vs Duke. Actually, I'm not sure if want to watch it, but I want to see the outcome, at least.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A thorough bed-shitting in the Elite Eight by the Vols.

The various words that come to mind does NOT included "shocked"

[Ksyrup]

In honor of LSU losing to UCLA...

Kim Mulkey dressed like the authoritarian leader of a small island nation
byu/slotretriever inCollegeBasketball

[Ksyrup]

So Maryland's coach bolts for Villanova, Buzz Williams bolts A&M for Maryland, and now A&M is targeting Chris Beard at Ole Miss to go head-to-head with Texas. Hilarious.

[Danny]

Pretty fantastic semifinal games.

[albionmoonlight]

Fuck Duke

[GrantDawg]

Well, there went my wife's bracket.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Fuck Duke

Like, in general or this year specifically? (Just curious. I have no affiliation with Duke.)