FBI Opens Investigation into Shooting of Michael Brown

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I've defended the police shootings in plenty of these threads but this is a dreadful shooting. She was angling the car to the right and the cop was at the driver side fender. At best she would graze him and that's highly questionable. This is what happens when you give wildly unqualified people a gun and some authority. ....

This is where I come down on this. I'll give authorities a lot of benefit of the doubt in these situations, but this one looks pretty indefensible. There seems to be no provocation and just a unilateral and instant ...execution. I looked for a better word there, but execution fits.

[RainMaker]

Even if you felt the first shot was justified, the others were clearly from the side and not justified.

[DanGarion]

If she was impeding them, they should have had local enforcement handle it. They have no authority to approach her and demand to enter her vehicle they were not in any danger. They escalated the situation and then killed her. Here is the deal: he doesn't pull that gun, she doesn't drive, and he doesn't kill her. He escalated something that would have been easy to avoid. I bet if you line this video up with others, it would confirm that his actions caused this.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

Conservatives are legitimately insane. There's no other explanation. Believing that someone didn't commit a crime and deserves to be murdered because law enforcement told them two different things is literally a mental disorder.

Uhhhh...nope. Never mind. It's best for me to keep lurking with this discussion.

[cuervo72]

I mean…some are a little wacky, I said as much to a guy on FB who started in with the Soros payroll stuff, I mentioned that no, some of us are pissed off and have agency, and I was immediately branded AI and/or a lying adolescent. So yeah, I think some do need help.

[RainMaker]

Nazi turns out to be Nazi

https://www.advocate.com/news/who-is...e#rebelltitem3

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Uhhhh...nope. Never mind. It's best for me to keep lurking with this discussion.

Yeah, saying everybody that disagrees with you has a mental disorder doesn't really allow for open discussion. But that is the internet for you. It is all group think that feeds off each other. No nuance discussions or examining the finer details. It is "agree with me completely or you are evil." It would be nice to have someplace like this could be a little more open to discussions without the vitriol, but I guess we are in a time that no place can really foster that type of open dialog. It eventually gets overtaken by over emotional responses, which in a time of actual danger and oppression is understandable to an extent.
I'm not saying I am less guilty. Discussions turn to arguments turn to anger and frustration. I just find it sad because at one time this was the place where I got to see some quality discussions about subjects I really learned from. I still do at times, but it is become less and less common.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Rittenhouse was a private citizen, not an actor of the state. This will never go to court outside of a hush hush civil settlement.

He was being chased, after an altercation, as well. I know GD's opinion has changed already, but they really aren't equivalent.

Originally Posted by Mota

If a masked person approaches you, that should immediately be valid for "stand your ground" rules.

Especially if that person is only carrying. Then it's a slam dunk per these new rules.


This entire thing is just so fucked. I have lost pretty much all faith in leadership, and people in general. It's hard to maintain my own personal sanity and enjoy my life. My mom, who has lived this long as a pretty die hard, single issue (abortion) church voter, has flipped so hard away from the current party and leadership, that she's endanger of losing her own sanity and getting sucked into the depths of despair for the state of the union. It's weird that I'm the one who has to tell her to stop watching the news, and limit herself to 30 minutes a day. This entire thing is so obviously fucked, that it's crazy that the right is pushing his video out, saying it totally justifies his response. I've not watched any of them, for my own sanity, but suffice to say, that I didn't think public executions were generally things we just let slide, and then were justified because the president lied about it straight away.


Remember, trump said that she ran him over and he was lucky to live, and was recovering in the hospital. No matter how many times the goal posts have moved, that was the official response from the president of the united states of america. It shouldn't be allowed to shift. You can't get away with this constant lying. It's a sign of so many other bad things you can't let get past you.

[PilotMan]

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, “THE LATE SHOW”: The message from this administration is clear. Only they determine the truth, and when their forces come to your city, obey or die. And if you die, you clearly didn’t obey.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, “THE LATE SHOW”: The message from this administration is clear. Only they determine the truth, and when their forces come to your city, obey or die. And if you die, you clearly didn’t obey.

Fascism

[flere-imsaho]

If online sources are to believe the mudering ICE guy is married to a woman he brought to the U.S. from the Philippines and is in the process of bringing other members of her family to the U.S. based on their marriage.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Yeah, saying everybody that disagrees with you has a mental disorder doesn't really allow for open discussion. But that is the internet for you. It is all group think that feeds off each other. No nuance discussions or examining the finer details. It is "agree with me completely or you are evil." It would be nice to have someplace like this could be a little more open to discussions without the vitriol, but I guess we are in a time that no place can really foster that type of open dialog. It eventually gets overtaken by over emotional responses, which in a time of actual danger and oppression is understandable to an extent.
I'm not saying I am less guilty. Discussions turn to arguments turn to anger and frustration. I just find it sad because at one time this was the place where I got to see some quality discussions about subjects I really learned from. I still do at times, but it is become less and less common.

To be fair, from what I can tell this topic has not had too much nuance or finer details in the past. It has been pretty cut and dry IMO. Law enforcement personnel can use deadly force when (insert your favorite well trodden reason here) without consequence. Period. End of story. Attempts at nuance are equated to defending the indefensible on both sides at worst or awkward uncomfortable explanations(excuses?) at best.

[Glengoyne]

I don’t know, I think that there have been some pretty good discussions here on these shootings, albeit the left a bit better represented with pretty clear examples on both sides of people departing from reason and or flying off the handle.

[flere-imsaho]

Let's go back to the quote that set some of you off:

Believing that someone didn't commit a crime and deserves to be murdered because law enforcement told them two different things is literally a mental disorder.

Explain to me how siding with ICE in this particular situation is perfectly logical. The situation being, for the purpose of removal of doubt, an ICE officer (who was in little to no personal danger) fatally shooting a person who was attempting to comply with one of several orders she was being given by various masked, armed, ICE officers.

[Lathum]

The response from the administration is almost are bad as the shooting itself.

The ICE officer is human and call it what you want, a mistake, error in judgment, power trip, etc...and can be understood if not forgiven.

The calculated response from almost everyone on the right to defend the officer, and even worse launch an all out smear campaign on the victim while telling us not to believe our eyes and ears is next level nefarious.

[RainMaker]

I think people keep leaving out the part where ICE has no legal authority over U.S. citizens. They have as much right to yank a citizen out of a vehicle as you or I.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think people keep leaving out the part where ICE has no legal authority over U.S. citizens. They have as much right to yank a citizen out of a vehicle as you or I.

This administration has made it clear they are going to write their own laws and no one will hold them accountable.

Kristie Noem should be in front of congress right now, if not resigning, and instead she is being interviewed by Jake Tapper.

[JPhillips]

Homan said that if people keep complaining that will lead to more incidents like this. Quiet piggies or we'll shoot more of you.

[Arles]

The US government under Trump is basically the mafia:
1. Major corporations (Meta, Disney/ABC) have to pay Trump protection money.
2. He increased the vig on his capos out in the wild to bankroll his organization (Tariffs).
3. As the boss, he says whatever he wants in public with no fear of retribution.
4. The other rival groups (aka democrats) have basically been neutered nationally from having any impact on him.
5. He pays a form of law enforcement under that table to enforce his agenda (ICE).
6. He pays judges to uphold and protect his interests (trying to keep stacking the supreme court).

It's really quite remarkable that we, as a country, have allowed this and sat idly by.

[Ghost Econ]

Well, when we try to point this out centrists say both sides are just as bad and liberals shouldnt point out how deranged the right is; the far left says both sides are the same and then blame the actual left for all the problem; and the right just points to how we should all submit or die.

What more can you actually do that doesn't involve martyrdom?

[Ghost Econ]

What's humorous to me is that any immigrant will always say they left their country because of corrupt leadership, governmental ovwrreach, poor living conditions, and no upward mobility.... but then when they all got here they decided that the person whose policies were exactly this was the person they wanted to vote for. As always, the problem isn't the policies in general, it's if I can make the policies not apply to me.

[Mota]

People who are fans of the way ICE work, probably thought Stormtroopers and the Empire were the coolest thing about Star Wars. It's increasingly becoming more and more similar.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Homan said that if people keep complaining that will lead to more incidents like this. Quiet piggies or we'll shoot more of you.

The march towards 1968 continues, except that the party isn't afraid to kill Americans now, and their supporters think that will improve things if they did.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Mota

People who are fans of the way ICE work, probably thought Stormtroopers and the Empire were the coolest thing about Star Wars. It's increasingly becoming more and more similar.

What's crazy is most of them seem to think MAGA is representative of the rebel alliance. They don't realize they're the bad guys in every one of their favorite films.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think people keep leaving out the part where ICE has no legal authority over U.S. citizens. They have as much right to yank a citizen out of a vehicle as you or I.

Out of curiosity, why do you believe this is true?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Out of curiosity, why do you believe this is true?

It is the actual law and enshrined in the constitution. You do not have to talk to them and they have no legal right to detain or arrest you unless there is probable cause that you are undocumented. They can't just yank you out of a car or point a gun at you because you are recording them or say something mean.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It is the actual law and enshrined in the constitution. You do not have to talk to them and they have no legal right to detain or arrest you unless there is probable cause that you are undocumented. They can't just yank you out of a car or point a gun at you because you are recording them or say something mean.

Can you provide the law and/or that part in the constitution? Asking because the Code of Federal Regulations that provide them with authority over U.S. citizens are apparently in disagreement with this.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Can you provide the law and/or that part in the constitution? Asking because the Code of Federal Regulations that provide them with authority over U.S. citizens are apparently in disagreement with this.

You can stop JAQing off and just post the information.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Can you provide the law and/or that part in the constitution? Asking because the Code of Federal Regulations that provide them with authority over U.S. citizens are apparently in disagreement with this.

Can you provide the specific federal code that allows ICE agents to yank people from their cars at gunpoint?

[Ghost Econ]

Technically they have the right to arrest citizens if they are in the act of committing or are believed to have committed a felony. Of course, there is an argument they could only exercise this duty within 100 miles of the border, since the Supreme Court only ruled regarding specific detention and questioning duties assigned to CBP agents in determining if someone is not a citizen. If they were to extend those protections to any CBP action, it would essentially make them an unchecked law enforcement entity.

[Atocep]

It's clear the Trump administration's reaction to the shooting has done nothing but embolden agents. Over the past couple of days I've seen several videos of ICE agents threatening protesters, asking them if they've learned anything yet, and pulling and pointing guns in the faces of protestors.

This is on the verge of getting really bad.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Can you provide the law and/or that part in the constitution? Asking because the Code of Federal Regulations that provide them with authority over U.S. citizens are apparently in disagreement with this.

read the constitution. When you get to number 4 you'll have your answer.

[JPhillips]

At least 6 prosecutors have resigned from DoJ over the demands to investigate the shooting victim.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Can you provide the law and/or that part in the constitution? Asking because the Code of Federal Regulations that provide them with authority over U.S. citizens are apparently in disagreement with this.

Can you cite them? They have power to detain or arrest someone who they see commit a felony in their presence. But that's standard for all federal agents. So yeah, if they see you stab someone, they can intervene.

Outside of that, they have no real authority over U.S. citizens. You are not obligated to prove your citizenship to them, allow them to search you, or even speak to them. Their administrative warrants are worthless and can be ignored. They don't have a right to detain you because they don't like what you said or because you're filming them. They don't have a right to make a traffic stop on you, run you off the road either, or fire tear gas at you because they don't like you. And they don't have a right to shoot you in the face because you were disrespectful as the President says. If you know of some regulations that allow that, please let us know.

In regards to the shooting, they had no authority in that situation. Good is a U.S. citizen and there is zero probable cause to assume otherwise. She was not committing a felony (a traffic violation at best). The only crime is with government agents who drew weapons on her and tried to get into her vehicle which is a violation of her rights.

[RainMaker]

What is the legal statute that allows them to do this?

in Aurora, a Chicago suburb, ICE agents surrounded the car of a U.S. citizen in a parking lot… fire into a vehicle's windshield with children in it, as she screamed that her children were inside.

Agents then dragged her from the car without presenting a warrant or probable… pic.twitter.com/sGaChBt79O

— Irlandarra (@aldamu_jo) January 13, 2026

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What is the legal statute that allows them to do this?

in Aurora, a Chicago suburb, ICE agents surrounded the car of a U.S. citizen in a parking lot… fire into a vehicle's windshield with children in it, as she screamed that her children were inside.

Agents then dragged her from the car without presenting a warrant or probable… pic.twitter.com/sGaChBt79O

— Irlandarra (@aldamu_jo) January 13, 2026

Or kidnap the US citizen that works at Target in Minneapolis, beat the shit out of him, then drop him off a few miles away to walk back.

[cuervo72]

Another one: @noturtlesoup17.bsky.social on Bluesky

[RainMaker]

What law allows this?

As they were leaving one scene, federal agents dropped tear gas canisters out of their moving vehicles in a residential neighborhood, seemingly just because they could.

One landed right at the feet of @JonFarinaPhoto. https://t.co/860FlhSkKx pic.twitter.com/MyEU6UBFlD

— JT Cestkowski (@JTCestkowski) January 13, 2026

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Lathum

read the constitution. When you get to number 4 you'll have your answer.

Even originalists must recognize that the 4th amendment was literally created for exactly this kind of behavior from the federal government. I mean, originalists won't recognize that, because they're lickspittle bootlickers, but that's literally why the 4th exists.

History, people!

[RainMaker]

ICE detain U.S. citizen teacher at special education school—deploy tear gas at student drop off.

"They broke her window, they pulled her out of car, they have tear gas around children!" yells witness.

Agent crashed his car into her—then blamed the teacher for "ramming him."… pic.twitter.com/JG7uiNcOK1

— LongTime��FirstTime��‍�� (@LongTimeHistory) January 13, 2026

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

ICE detain U.S. citizen teacher at special education school—deploy tear gas at student drop off.

"They broke her window, they pulled her out of car, they have tear gas around children!" yells witness.

Agent crashed his car into her—then blamed the teacher for "ramming him."… pic.twitter.com/JG7uiNcOK1

— LongTime��FirstTime��‍�� (@LongTimeHistory) January 13, 2026

I’ve done little besides watch that video as far as research into this but I can’t imagine this was anything more than a normal traffic accident that ICE escalated. Sounds like a teacher pulling into a school hit another vehicle or something similar.

When you are a hammer everything looks like a nail.

[Mota]

Seems to me that police would understand to minimize the unpredictable.

When masked men are reaching into your vehicle, drivers are going to do things like attempt to drive away. Someone who is even moderately trained would never do what those morons did.

[whomario]

Republican (i think) pundit on CNN: You peacefully protest with a letter to the editor. You peacefully protest by starting a Substack or a podcast.

(Not sarcasm)

[PilotMan]

You peacefully protest by buying a social media platform, doing a pump and dump for a bitcoin to raise money for yourself, or come up with an extensive plan with multiple meet ups for when you can breach the capitol building and interrupt the change of power because you lost. These are well known, and acceptable. Nothing like what the paid, pretend, diabolical, satanic, terrorist minded, left is doing like making videos, blocking roads, or claiming to be US citizens just for the clicks.

[CrimsonFox]

Mommy theres a republican pussy fascist at the door

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by whomario

Republican (i think) pundit on CNN: You peacefully protest with a letter to the editor. You peacefully protest by starting a Substack or a podcast.

(Not sarcasm)

To be fair, that is not far from the proper protest rules that were suggested back in 2020.

[RainMaker]

Also the same thing Democrats told college students in 2024.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Also the same thing Democrats told college students in 2024.

Thank God we don't have to deal with their bullshit anymore.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by whomario

Republican (i think) pundit on CNN: You peacefully protest with a letter to the editor. You peacefully protest by starting a Substack or a podcast.

(Not sarcasm)

And here I thought it was by storming the capital with weapons...

[Mota]

The rules are lie, cheat and steal. If you hold yourself to higher standards than that, you will lose. America in 2026.