Football Discussion: Derrick Thomas First Ballot Hof Inductee or not?

[Ragone]

Was Wondering what your thoughts were on him being inducted first time through to Hof (since its coming up)

When he died, i had no doubt in my mind he would be, but now, after all the personal crap got flung about his life.. and the way his affairs were left in total disarray.. i'm not so sure.


Was quite sad to see 6-7 women fight over the scraps and the money raised from the auction of Derrick Thomas's estate.. While his poor Grandmother/Mother watched on and barely got to keep anything.

[Leonidas]

I think he is a 50-50 HoF all told, probably not a first ballot guy considering there are some really, really good guys who have been passed over for may years. First ballot-hood is reserved for guys like Elway, Sanders, and Marino, no brainer type guys. For a guy like Thomas, if you even have to ask then he's not a first ballot guy.

[Fritz]

you just have to look at the "sure thing" guys that take 15 years to get in. Who knows?

[kcchief19]

I think he will be a first-ballot HOFer. He probably would not have been had he not died, but I think people will vote for him in memorium. No doubt he's a HOFer -- his stats as is are good enough, and he certainly would have put up even better numbers had he not died.

I don't think the personal stuff will taint him. I think we probably made a bigger deal out of it here in KC than people did nationally.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I think he will be a first-ballot HOFer. He probably would not have been had he not died, but I think people will vote for him in memorium. No doubt he's a HOFer -- his stats as is are good enough, and he certainly would have put up even better numbers had he not died.

I don't think the personal stuff will taint him. I think we probably made a bigger deal out of it here in KC than people did nationally.

I barely read anything about him after he died, but I do know that he had a bunch of out of wedlock kids and screwed up finances. And I dont live anywhere near KC.

[thesloppy]

Fucked up finances shouldn't keep you out of the NFL hall of fame. A scattering of rugrats should be a non-factor as well, consider that Barry sanders was a spokespeson for abstinence when he had a child out of wedlock, but nobody will probably bring that up at his induction.

Judging on performance alone seems like the best way to steer clear of any individual players personal controversies, look at baseball and the pete rose debacle. In Derrick Thomas'es case, it's hard to hold things against him for things that happened after he died, and prudent financial planning still hasn't been acknowledged as a stat by the NFL. However, as much as I'd like to think the league would ignore a player's personal problems, I'd have to imagine that in reality Thomas is a lock, more for his tragic early death rather than his performance on the field (not to discredit his impressive career). If Thomas were still alive today I could easily see his name showing up on a HOF ballot, however I'm not so convinced he'd be voted in immediately, or necessarily at all.

The NFL is in the entertainment industry, and especially in today's climate tragedy and loss are an easy sell with their fanbase. The league absolutely loves to play the good guy, and I mean no disrespect, but at this point you almost expect Pat Tillman to be inducted into the HOF. In my own mind, I'd like to think that the Hall was an honor awarded based purely on the merit of your on-field play, but we are a sappy bunch of monkeys, and I do think Thomas would get voted in immediately based on sentiment. I suppose, even as a cynical, bitter old grouch, in the grand scale of this thing called life I don't have a problem with giving a guy an early pass into the hall because he kicked the bucket a little early.

[Darkiller]

This will be crowed this year...i tell you.
Personnaly, I'll actively support Steve Young's candidacy.

I believe he will get in on the 1st ballot (heck, Jim Kelly did a few years ago and there's no question who the better QB is) but you never know...

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

The NFL is in the entertainment industry, and especially in today's climate tragedy and loss are an easy sell with their fanbase. The league absolutely loves to play the good guy, and I mean no disrespect, but at this point you almost expect Pat Tillman to be inducted into the HOF.

"the NFL" and I have the same number of votes to give a HOF candidate.

[judicial clerk]

Good Question. I think Thomas will be a HOFer, but I need to see his actual stats to decide if he should be a first ballot. He is not in the same class as Elway, Marino, or Sanders, but he was close to them.

Not to threadjack but I have another interesting question: How many current players have the credentials right now to be in the Hall? A couple of obvious ones are Emmitt and Favre, but Who else?

[Darkiller]

Well, E.Smith and B.Favre have played in the league for a long time, have won it all (SuperBowl + MVPs) so they are indeed obvious choices.
Of course you can add Jerry Rice who has yet to retire.

I don't know of any other active player who has these credentials (longevity & success) so to be considered a sure-thing for the HOF. I'm not ready, for instance, to call Tim Brown a Hall of Famer...

Probably Bruce Smith will get in (don't remember if he retired or not this off-season...).

I know Pro Football Weekly recently issued an article on the 12 current players that were bound for the Hall of Fame...and the selection seemed pretty straight. Could be interesting to get a look at it if anyone has it.

[TroyF]

Ray Lewis is a lock. Rod Woodson is as well. Some other names that jump to mind as sure things:

Jonathan Ogden
Derrick Brooks
Tim Brown (look, not even a question here, he's going to be in)
Warren Sapp

Guys like Randy Moss, Marvin Harrison, Isaac Bruce, and Peyton Manning would have to have catastrophic collapses not to get into the Hall. Michael Strahan is nearing the top 10 all time in "recorded" sacks. He has a couple of more 10+ sack years and he'll pass LT and near the top five all time. Factor in his presence as an all around DE, and I think he has a pretty good shot.

[Lucky Jim]

Marshall Faulk should get in too I'd think. Injury stuff aside lately he's had a good career and one of the great stretches a few years ago of all time.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Lucky Jim

Marshall Faulk should get in too I'd think. Injury stuff aside lately he's had a good career and one of the great stretches a few years ago of all time.

I would also agree here. He may not have as many yards as Emmitt, but he has consistantly been among the top backs in the league throughout his career.

What about Bettis? I would think he's just not dominant enough. But he does have 1000 more yards rushing for his career than Faulk does, and is only a year older.

[Darkiller]

I agree about Bettis.
As far as Tim Brown, you can bet there will be a debate...

For all the other names TroyF, I agree on them, BUT I believe they pretty much all need a few more good years (except Rod Woodson).

[Vince]

I don't think there's a debate about WHETHER Tim Brown will get in...only when. He'll be there, no doubt, in my opinion.

[TroyF]

Marshall Faulk should get in too I'd think. Injury stuff aside lately he's had a good career and one of the great stretches a few years ago of all time.

I like Faulk's chances. He'd get my vote.

As far as Tim Brown, you can bet there will be a debate...

I just don't see how there is any debate. He's a 9 time pro bowler. His all time ranks are as follows:

3rd in receptions
2nd in receiving yards
4th in TD receptions
10 in yards from scrimmage

Look, this isn't Art Monk we are talking about here. Monk was a 3 time pro bowler and had very few years where he was among the league leaders in yards or TD's. I just don't see any debate, the guy is going to be in the hall within the first two ballots.

For all the other names TroyF, I agree on them, BUT I believe they pretty much all need a few more good years (except Rod Woodson).

Lets go over the list in more detail:

Ogden: Been in the league 8 years, has 7 trips to the pro bowl and a Super Bowl. He's also blocked for a 2,000+ yard rusher. Were he to get hurt in training camp and never play another down, he has an incredible shot. Even if he plays "average" football over the next 3-5 years, he's an absolute lock.

Ray Lewis: He's played 8 years as well. A Super Bowl. On one of the stingiest defenses of all time. Has 20+ sacks and 20 INT's in his career. Again, like Ogden, if he just shows up for a couple of more years, it's not even a debate.

Warren Sapp: God, I hate Warren Sapp. I also think he's an incredibly overrated player. Still, he's went to the Pro-Bowl 7 times. He's played on an incredible defense his entire career. He's got a Super Bowl. He's won the NFL's defensive player of the year award twice. He has 77 career sacks from the DT slot. I mean, I think he'd go in right now, if he never played another down.

Derrick Brooks: Another 7 time pro bowler. Has missed a total of 3 games in his 9 year career. (and all of those took place in year one) Was defensive player of the year on one of the best defenses of all-time. Has a Super Bowl. Widely regarded as the best cover backer of this generation, and maybe all time.

Do all of those guys need a couple of more years? I'd be welling to bet they'd all get in if they never played another game. With career ending injuries being a fairly rare event these days, all of these guys need to simply show up and pad their numbers a bit more and they are in.

[judicial clerk]

Don't know why I didn't think of Rod Woodsen and Jerry Rice. Duh. Jerry Rice should be a unanimous selection.

Shannon Sharpe just retired and I think he is a first ballot guy.
Ray Lewis is in. The mystique surrounding that guy is enough to get him in.

Steve McNair?
Drew Bledsoe?
Morten Andersen?
Junior Seau? (I think he is in)
[Tony Gonzalez deleated, thought better of it]
Curtis Martin?
Donovan McNabb?
John Lynch?
Darren Woodsen?
Zach Thomas?

[JeeberD]

Larry Allen?

[Lucky Jim]

Madden always says Larry Allen is the best to ever play his position, so probably eventually. I wouldn't say a first ballot guy though, just by nature of being a guard unfortunately.

[Abe Sargent]

Junior Seau - yes. I think Morten should be, but kickers get no respect.

AS far as receivers, Isaac Bruce just hit number 20 all time in receiving. The old Jax duo of J Smith and K McCardell are in the top 20 as well. I've always thought that if Jax wins a Super Bowl or J Smith leads the league in receiving again, then Jimmy would be HOF bound. Especially with his stories (although the drug this this year hurts).

Brian Mitchell has the most net yards of any player. Maybe he'll get in, although probably not on the first few ballots.

-Anxiety

[The_herd]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

Don't know why I didn't think of Rod Woodsen and Jerry Rice. Duh. Jerry Rice should be a unanimous selection.

Shannon Sharpe just retired and I think he is a first ballot guy.
Ray Lewis is in. The mystique surrounding that guy is enough to get him in.

Steve McNair?
Drew Bledsoe?
Morten Andersen?
Junior Seau? (I think he is in)
[Tony Gonzalez deleated, thought better of it]
Curtis Martin?
Donovan McNabb?
John Lynch?
Darren Woodsen?
Zach Thomas?

McNair - needs to play at last season's level a coulple more seasons.
Bledsoe - No chance.
Anderson - if a kicker deserves to be in, he's the one.
Seau - Yep.
Martin - most likely, another 1,000 yard season clinches it. Gets in before Bettis
McNabb - got a lot of work to do still.
Lynch - should be. That would potentially put 3 off the Bucs D, with Simeon Rice making 4 a possibility.
D. Woodsen - Not in my book, although I'm willing to listen.
Zach Thomas - Needs to at least play on a D that makes it to the Super Bowl IMO.

Brian Mitchell should get in as well, although he's probably gonna need to wait for a weak class to sqeeze in.

[judicial clerk]

Larry Allen is a good call. He will be in.

[TroyF]

I can't see how Lynch would be in and Woodson wouldn't be. Woodson has been the better player throughout their careers. More trips to the pro bowl, more Super Bowls, etc.

I agree with most of what else was wrote there, but not that part.

[cthomer5000]

Simeon Rice? no chance.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Simeon Rice? no chance.

I wouldn't go that far. He's racked up 93 sacks so far. He doesn't have enough to go in right now, but were he to get to the 150 sack mark he'd have a great shot. He's 30 now and that'd mean four more years at the same level. (which would also include four more pro bowl berths)

Is it likely? No, not really. But Simeon certainly has a chance.

[Noble_Platypus]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

Don't know why I didn't think of Rod Woodsen and Jerry Rice. Duh. Jerry Rice should be a unanimous selection.

Shannon Sharpe just retired and I think he is a first ballot guy.
Ray Lewis is in. The mystique surrounding that guy is enough to get him in.

Steve McNair?
Drew Bledsoe?
Morten Andersen?
Junior Seau? (I think he is in)
[Tony Gonzalez deleated, thought better of it]
Curtis Martin?
Donovan McNabb?
John Lynch?
Darren Woodsen?
Zach Thomas?

Donovan Mcnabb????????? Where the hell did that come from? I dont think Mcnair is in either.

[Anthony]

trust me, if LT can get in without his off the field nonsense being a factor, whatever DT did won't be a problem.