OT: Barry Bonds ...

LionsFan10 · 06-19-2004, 02:44 AM

Sorry if this has been posted already but I didn't see it anywhere so here goes ...

Bonds says Boston is "too racist" for him, what an idiot. Everytime this guy opens his mouth, he says something so utterly stupid that it's hard for me to accept the fact that someone like him is the most dominant hitter of our time.

Oh yeah, I guess when white folks are sitting around plotting who they're going to be racist against they seem to overlook the Dominicans, Puerto Ricans among other latino's, not to mention the influx of Asian players ... what a dumbass.

Linky:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1824716

Solecismic · 06-19-2004, 02:54 AM

Nothing more hilarious than the end of the local Red Sox telecast this evening.

Sean McDonough is NESN's play-by-play guy. He had this to say about the story as the game was in the bottom of the ninth, striking out against Keith Foulke:

"He's never been there but he heard it from other people. We've had Mo Vaughn and many other players. They've been loved in Boston. He's entitled to his opinion. I'm often asked who is the biggest jerk I've ever seen in sports. I say it's that man (camera on him walking to the dugout after the strikeout) right there, because he is. That's just my opinion."

Jerry Remy, the color guy, didn't say a thing.

Here's a link to the Boston Globe story. Gordon Edes is one of the few writers out there who has earned a lot of respect in RSN.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...06/18/18bonds/

ISiddiqui · 06-19-2004, 03:31 AM

Well... Boston doesn't exactly have the best reputation in the field of race relations. Many people still remember that picture of white protestors simulating spearing a black man with an American flag, over the busing rule.

Bad-example · 06-19-2004, 04:19 AM

And more to the point, Bonds clearly knew what button to push to stir up the Boston media.

Sharpieman · 06-19-2004, 04:40 AM

I'm a huge Giants fan and I'm biased. But I can say with complete confidence that this isn't a stupid statement by Bonds. Did you know that the Red Sox were the last team to bring in a black player to their team? And it was something like 12 years later after Robinson joined the Dodgers. Not until the 80s did African Americans become regulars on the Red Sox squad. And even then, many African Americans chose to bypass Boston because of its poor record on race relations. I wouldn't blame a African American to hate a city and a team that has had a horrible record of race relations in the past.

Ben E Lou · 06-19-2004, 06:21 AM

Gotta say it. (and y'all know that I'm not given to cry racism/play the race card, etc.) Call it bad publicity, perception, or reality, but if you asked me of all the medium-to-large-sized cities in America where I wouldn't want to live (particularly being in an interracial marriage), Boston and Birmingham are the only two places that I'd want to avoid.

Chief Rum · 06-19-2004, 07:35 AM

I hate to contribute to the perception of Boston in this way as, quite frankly, I have never been there and have no actual knowledge of the town. But it should be noted this is also the city that featured the dominating Celtics of the 80s, led by premier white players Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Danny Ainge (along with black players Robert Parrish and Dennis Johnson). For years afterward, I came to know Boston's NBA team as a haven for white players, although this impression was likely firmly ingrained in me by growing up watching those great Celtics teams. It should be noted as a counterpoint that Boston seemed to show great love (and later on, loss) for the tragic Reggie Lewis in the years after the fall of the dynasty, and that this was also the franchise which once featured the great (and quite black) Bill Russell. So perhaps this is all just happenstance.

CR

TroyF · 06-19-2004, 08:26 AM

Bonds is the biggest jerk in baseball, but Boston has a HORRIBLE reputation in terms of race releations. It may not be fair, but Bonds is not the first athlete I've heard question that aspect of the city. You also have to remember, Barry was 11 in 1975. His dad played ball with the Yankees that year. To say there was racial tension in Boston during that time would be an understatement. In an April series at Boston, Barry would have read news stories about many Boston schools finishing up their FIRST YEAR of integration. Think about that for a second and then tell me it wouldn't impact your view of the city.

Still, it's sad that the best player of this generation and probably the best player we will ever get a chance to see in our lifetimes is such a jack-ass when it comes to public relations. If he were as well liked as Cal Ripken or Paul Molitor, he'd be the Michael Jordan of baseball. Instead people use the jerk/steroid issues to sidestep what he's currently doing on the field.

Oh, on the field? He's having one of the top 5 seasons for a hitter in the HISTORY of the game. And he's doing it at a month before his 40th birthday.

oykib · 06-19-2004, 08:48 AM

Perhaps he's bad at public relations, Troy. But there's a big difference between that and being the biggest jerk in baseball. I don't remeber any stories about Bonds beating his wife or kids for example. We've got a fair number of guys in the game who have. I also have never seen him throw a bat at a player or go headhunting with a 95+ MPH fastball, etc.

As for Boston, it's been documented numerous times that Boston has a bad rep as far as it's treatment of black people-- both among the ranks of pro athletes and common folks. I couldn't tell you whether or not its's deserved. But allow to bring up this point. When Jimmy Kimmel said what he said about Detroit (i.e. black) people, I'm sure a fair number of you felt that there was an overreaction. Are all the same people saying that the same thing here?

MrBug708 · 06-19-2004, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oykib

Perhaps he's bad at public relations, Troy. But there's a big difference between that and being the biggest jerk in baseball. I don't remeber any stories about Bonds beating his wife or kids for example. We've got a fair number of guys in the game who have. I also have never seen him throw a bat at a player or go headhunting with a 95+ MPH fastball, etc.

As for Boston, it's been documented numerous times that Boston has a bad rep as far as it's treatment of black people-- both among the ranks of pro athletes and common folks. I couldn't tell you whether or not its's deserved. But allow to bring up this point. When Jimmy Kimmel said what he said about Detroit (i.e. black) people, I'm sure a fair number of you felt that there was an overreaction. Are all the same people saying that the same thing here?

He did push his wife down the stairs....

oykib · 06-19-2004, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

He did push his wife down the stairs....

That's the first time I'm hearing this. I can't recall him ever having been arrested...

TroyF · 06-19-2004, 09:31 AM

oyk,

You don't have to beat your wife, have 300 children out of wedlock, or be a thief to be a jerk. Maybe the "biggest" jerk is going a bit far, but most everything I've ever read about Barry (even from people close to him) say that he's not that nice of an individual. When a member of the media makes that comment (biggest jerk in baseball), he's talking about HIS personal experience and relationship to the player as much as anything else. That may be wrong, but in the case above the announcer didn't try to hide his bias. Sean McDonough has dealt with a ton of athletes. If that's his opinion, so be it.

FWIW I know an ex-Rockies PBP guy. On the golf course one day he was asked the same question by one of our foursome. His reply, without hesitation was Barry Bonds.

TroyF · 06-19-2004, 09:35 AM

Oyk,

Mr. Bug is referring to this incident:

``I learned to focus between the lines when I got divorced in 1993 and you guys were calling me a woman beater and all this other crap that wasn't true,'' he told reporters Monday. ``My dad was the one who showed me how to deal with it.''

Police were called to Bonds' home in Atherton in 1993 by his then-wife, Sun. She told police her husband had struck her and pushed her down the stairs. But she later declined to cooperate with investigators, and prosecutors did not find enough evidence to file charges.

Sorry Bug, doesn't seem to be a lot of proof there. I'm not going to call Barry a wife beater over that.

Solecismic · 06-19-2004, 01:46 PM

I've lived in a few places, and right now I'm more than an hour away from Boston and am relatively new to the area so I can hardly call myself an expert.

I just don't get that sense about Boston or the surrounding area. For one, it's the most socially liberal areas I've seen. Moreso even than Seattle, where we lived before moving here. I doubt anyone would even bat an eye about SkyDog's marriage. Massachusetts is behind only DC in its likelihood to vote Democrat these days.

I lived in North Carolina for a few years after college. Racial tension was everywhere. People talked about it, you couldn't go anywhere without someone glaring at you. It was a divided society (while I was there, John Edwards was elected, so I guess that's where he got his schtick).

I lived for a year in western Michigan. Very conservative, openly racist. SkyDog would have trouble in the Grand Rapids area.

I think it's unfortunate that the Red Sox ownership through the last century was racist. Being the last to integrate has added to the reputation. I don't know about the busing cases, I wasn't here and people don't talk about it a lot, I guess. I read the Sons of Sam Horn board a lot, and I doubt an openly racist poster would have much luck becoming accepted.

Myself, I wouldn't want to live in the immediate Boston area because the home prices in the areas where crime isn't at bad parts of Florida levels are ridiculously expensive. Since my "job" makes me free to live anywhere, I've thought a lot about where I'd want to live. I think we made a good choice about NH. It's nothing like the stereotypes would suggest. Perhaps Boston's reputation is similarly unfounded.

At any rate, McDonough's point was that only someone as assinine as Bonds would relay that comment, second-hand. He admits he's never even been to Boston. And while he certainly has friends who have played there, I've never seen any indication that the black players are treated any differently than the white ones. There are a lot of dark faces in the starting lineup, and the team has about 100 straight home sellouts.

miked · 06-19-2004, 01:56 PM

This is hardly breaking news. I live in Boston and even before I lived here I heard that about the city. Where I live, if I see two black people in a day, I'm shocked, and it's wayyy different from having lived in Atlanta. As has been said before, Boston was the last team to integrate and even if you go to a game, you will most likely see 97% white fans. I mean, look at who the fans and city gravitate to. One of the league's best pitchers...Pedro? No. One of baseball's best hitters, Manny? No. It's the "workhorses" (Boston loves to use that phrase) like Trot Nixon, One year wonders Kevin Millar and Bill Mueller. Why would Barry want to play there?

P.S. I don't like Barry and for the most part enjoy the city of Boston. It's just plainly obvious to anyone who spends more than a few days here that it's not the best situation for race relations.

McSweeny · 06-19-2004, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

This is hardly breaking news. I live in Boston and even before I lived here I heard that about the city. Where I live, if I see two black people in a day, I'm shocked, and it's wayyy different from having lived in Atlanta. As has been said before, Boston was the last team to integrate and even if you go to a game, you will most likely see 97% white fans. I mean, look at who the fans and city gravitate to. One of the league's best pitchers...Pedro? No. One of baseball's best hitters, Manny? No. It's the "workhorses" (Boston loves to use that phrase) like Trot Nixon, One year wonders Kevin Millar and Bill Mueller. Why would Barry want to play there?

P.S. I don't like Barry and for the most part enjoy the city of Boston. It's just plainly obvious to anyone who spends more than a few days here that it's not the best situation for race relations.

umm... the fans DO love Manny and Pedro. And how about the standing ovation Burks got in his first at bat back at Fenway as a Red Sox? I find Bonds' comments mostly BS. I lived in Boston for nearly 2 years and didn't really see any signs of racism, obvious or otherwise

TroyF · 06-19-2004, 02:39 PM

It's all perception guys. I can fault Barry for a lot of things, but have a tough time finding a lot of fault in his statement. The only thing I could criticize is that he didn't word his answer a little better. If he'd have said something along the lines of, "When I was growing up, I read about a lot of the racial problems Boston had. I have no desire to play there," it would have sounded better than what came out.

Schmidty · 06-19-2004, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I lived for a year in western Michigan. Very conservative, openly racist. SkyDog would have trouble in the Grand Rapids area.

You are a complete jack-ass for saying something like that. I am literally shaking right now with fury. You lived in Western Michigan for 1 fucking year and you have the gonads to call it an "openly racist" area? I lived almost my entire life in West Michigan (up until 6 months ago, and a few years when I lived in Florida), and I can honestly say that your statement is unfounded, disrespectful and asinine. Racial relations in Grand Rapids (and West Michigan) are extremely good, to the point where I don't think I can remember anyone that I have known making a racist comment, nor can I think of any type of racist crimes, etc. in the past few years. That's not to say that racism doesn't exist there, since it still exists everywhere, but it certainly isn't rampant or more noticable than other places around the country.

West Michigan is definitely religiously conservative, and since I am assuming that you are liberal, you automatically equate christianity and conservativism to racism and such. I have no idea what experiences you had or witnessed in West Michigan, but I can say that they were not a representation of the majority of West Michigan. Hell, as of the day I left, half of the city council were black, the superintendant was black and they had recently rebuilt the center of town and named it Rosa Parks Square. I know that those things, in and of themselves don't necessarily mean anything, but they do show the climate of life in West Michigan.

I apologize if I insulted you or offended you, but you insulted and offended me when you labeled a place that means so much to me and who I am so incorrectly. By labeling and making general statements about my home, you are doing the very thing that other closed-minded people do when they label people by race and such.

Damn, I miss home.

Solecismic · 06-19-2004, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmidty

You are a complete jack-ass for saying something like that. I am literally shaking right now with fury. You lived in Western Michigan for 1 fucking year and you have the gonads to call it an "openly racist" area? I lived almost my entire life in West Michigan (up until 6 months ago, and a few years when I lived in Florida), and I can honestly say that your statement is unfounded, disrespectful and asinine. Racial relations in Grand Rapids (and West Michigan) are extremely good, to the point where I don't think I can remember anyone that I have known making a racist comment, nor can I think of any type of racist crimes, etc. in the past few years. That's not to say that racism doesn't exist there, since it still exists everywhere, but it certainly isn't rampant or more noticable than other places around the country.

West Michigan is definitely religiously conservative, and since I am assuming that you are liberal, you automatically equate christianity and conservativism to racism and such. I have no idea what experiences you had or witnessed in West Michigan, but I can say that they were not a representation of the majority of West Michigan. Hell, as of the day I left, half of the city council were black, the superintendant was black and they had recently rebuilt the center of town and named it Rosa Parks Square. I know that those things, in and of themselves don't necessarily mean anything, but they do show the climate of life in West Michigan.

I apologize if I insulted you or offended you, but you insulted and offended me when you labeled a place that means so much to me and who I am so incorrectly. By labeling and making general statements about my home, you are doing the very thing that other closed-minded people do when they label people by race and such.

Damn, I miss home.

I think you need to calm down then. Everyone else here is rationally discussing comments made about Boston by someone who has never even been there.

It may have been only a year, but I was working full time for the Sentinel, and was all over the area every single day. It was bizarre, because the racism was so out there and so open. People just said things in ordinary conversation that floored me. Mostly against Hispanic people, because of the large fruit-picking population.

I don't happen to be tremendously liberal, by the way. My statement was made in as unbiased a manner as humanly possible. If you are not part of the majority there, things are tough.

miked · 06-19-2004, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSweeny

umm... the fans DO love Manny and Pedro. And how about the standing ovation Burks got in his first at bat back at Fenway as a Red Sox? I find Bonds' comments mostly BS. I lived in Boston for nearly 2 years and didn't really see any signs of racism, obvious or otherwise

Yeah, they love him so much they were practically dancing in the streets when he was waived. The media here trashes Pedro and Manny all the time. Go to a game and see how many Millar, Nixon, Wakefield jerseys you can find and I'm nearly positive it will be more than double the amount of Pedro/Manny jerseys. Burks, nice sentiment, but when he was on the 90s Sox, I can't remember any other black players on the team except Mo. I'm sure there were some, but this is definately a town that loves its white players. If you see no signs of racism, it's because when you look around, there isn't much diversity (unless you go to Cambridge, where you see a good amount).

MrBug708 · 06-19-2004, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

Sorry Bug, doesn't seem to be a lot of proof there. I'm not going to call Barry a wife beater over that.

Nope, but I remember the incident actually because I thought his wife had a funny name, Sun. I think she had a broken arm from it. But no charges were filed.

EagleFan · 06-19-2004, 04:31 PM

I guess Boston can never get over it's past? What kind of shallow thinking is that, oh right this is Barry Bonds we're talking about.

I'm getting sick of that jerk and his race card he plays every other week about something. It's BS like that helps perpetuate the perception of racism.

Solecismic · 06-19-2004, 04:42 PM

I just want to add that it has been 15 years since I've been in the Grand Rapids area, and it would be naive to think that things haven't changed. My intent was not to insult anyone, and I'll remove my responses if people find them offensive.

In response to MikeD, I wanted to point out something about Boston:

Races in Boston:

* White Non-Hispanic (49.5%)
* Black (25.3%)
* Hispanic (14.4%)
* Other race (7.8%)
* Two or more races (4.4%)
* Chinese (3.3%)
* Vietnamese (1.8%)
* American Indian (0.9%)
* Asian Indian (0.8%)
* Other Asian (0.5%)

(Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races)

Ancestries: Irish (15.8%), Italian (8.3%), West Indian (6.4%), English (4.5%), German (4.1%), Subsaharan African (3.6%).

Races in Cambridge:

* White Non-Hispanic (64.6%)
* Black (11.9%)
* Hispanic (7.4%)
* Chinese (4.8%)
* Two or more races (4.6%)
* Other race (3.2%)
* Asian Indian (2.7%)
* Korean (1.9%)
* Other Asian (1.1%)
* Japanese (0.9%)
* American Indian (0.8%)

(Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races)

Ancestries: Irish (13.3%), English (9.2%), German (7.9%), Italian (7.5%), West Indian (5.1%), Russian (3.8%).

Now, that doesn't mean there aren't highly segregated pockets, but Boston is a very diverse community.

miked · 06-19-2004, 05:00 PM

Interesting, because you wouldn't know it by walking around. I definately know there are "pockets" of different races, as there most likely are in lots of cities. But from my experience here, it does seem to be pretty white (except the Downtown Crossing area). Who knows, but I have encountered quite a lot of racist folks in my time here.

BishopMVP · 06-19-2004, 05:13 PM

The Red Sox had a racist ownership - back in the 50's, and Boston went through an openly racist phase during the busing crisis in the mid-1970's. (FWIW Troy it wasn't that schools were being integrated for the first time, but that the city was busing kids to different parts of the city to achieve a better racial balance.) Since I've lived here (1992) I don't think I've met more than 5 or 10 openly racist people, even though I live in a lily-white town (probably 10 black families at most in a town of 20k) in the suburbs where the racist white people supposedly moved out to to avoid the busing. IMO, it's pretty much all perception at this point and there are plenty of examples from the past 20 years to show that black/minority players are loved by the fans (Pedro until he started getting hurt, Nomar, Ellis Burks, Mo, look at the Patriots, Pierce, etc.)

BishopMVP · 06-19-2004, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

Interesting, because you wouldn't know it by walking around. I definately know there are "pockets" of different races, as there most likely are in lots of cities. But from my experience here, it does seem to be pretty white (except the Downtown Crossing area). Who knows, but I have encountered quite a lot of racist folks in my time here.

There was some index my sociology teacher at college showed us that broke down each city by how much each neighborhood was ethnically/racially diverse. Boston was in the middle, I think Atlanta was the lowest (best) big city and Detroit the most segragated. Only New York had actually become less racially segragated over the last 20 years, every other city was either the same or even worse.

MrBug708 · 06-19-2004, 05:18 PM

Since when is Hispanic considered white?

vtbub · 06-19-2004, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Since when is Hispanic considered white?

Always, for statistical purposes.

MrBug708 · 06-19-2004, 05:22 PM

*shrugs*

I can't wait to tell my hispanic friends that they are white, just like me. That'll go over REAL well.

vtbub · 06-19-2004, 05:28 PM

European origin.

LionsFan10 · 06-19-2004, 06:27 PM

Being Puerto Rican, I'm considered "white" hispanic even though my father is so dark he is often time mistaken for black. It's odd, honestly but I don't really care either way what I'm labeled. I know one thing though, Puerto Rican's didn't make up that label for ourselves.

molson · 06-19-2004, 08:02 PM

People clinging to lingering beliefs about Boston's inferiority in race relations reminds me of old people clinging to lingering beliefs about the inferiority of races. But there's no basis to either. Here's what this thread has come up for reasons Boston is racist:

1. The Red Sox were a racist organization under Yawkey.

Absolutely. But he's been dead for 30 years. Did other parts of the country have powerfull racists that grew up in the 1920s?

2. The Celtics have had a lot of white players

True - but the Celtics also had the NBA's first black player, the NBA's first all black starting five, and most importantly, the first black coach - in ANY major American professional sport. Why is this never brougt up?

3. Boston schools didn't integrate until 1975.

What? TroyF is a smart guy, which tells me many other people must have misunderstood this part of history, and god knows how many actually believe this is true - which I'm sure hurts this racist perception. No, unlike the South, Boston never segregated public schools - they did take an active step to make their schools more diverse by bussing some students to schools outside their neighborhoods

4. Boston seems white when you walk around there.

True - Boston has always been very segregated in terms of neighborhoods (hence the attempt at bussing), but this goes for all nationalities - particularly Irish and Italian. This is difficult to understand from someone not from here. I believe Boston has America's last predominantly poor, white, Ethnic neighborhoods. Whether such lasting indenties of 200+ year old neighborhoods is good or bad, I have no idea, but it's not a white/minority thing.

5. Boston fans prefer the white athlete.

This is always brought up - but I just don't see it. Manny and Pedro are hugely popular - easily the two most popular locally, despite Pedro's diva attitude and Manny's occasional mental mistakes. Yes, Millar and Mueller were popular (at least last year - though sports raido callers want Millar out of town now), but Ortiz and Pokey are MUCH more popular at the moment. Pokey has become something of a cult hero in the last few weeks. Yes, Boston fans are passionate and will turn on you quickly, but this only gives those with a racial agenda to cry foul.

Barry may have "heard things" from his father's peers. But he shouldn't educate his son, and his son's peers, on 30-year old 2nd hand "ideas" of the city. How does that help progress?

pjstp20 · 06-19-2004, 08:55 PM

Why has this thread turned into a Boston race relations thread? Everyones heard that Boston has been one of the most racist organizatins in baseball, but I think that has changed a bit since the 60's, 70's and 80's. That statement was the least ignorant thing Bonds said in that article.

How about his comments after the reporter asked if they'd build a monument for him like the one they built for Ted Williams. "They don't build things for Blacks". What???????????????. This statement shows how much he sees only what he wants to. There's a statue of Willy Mays in San Fransisco where he plays for Gods sake!!!!!!!!!

cuervo72 · 06-19-2004, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Massachusetts is behind only DC in its likelihood to vote Democrat these days.

Maryland can't be far behind (it was a minor miracle that a Republican won the governorship, the first one since Spiro Agnew).

clintl · 06-19-2004, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjstp20

How about his comments after the reporter asked if they'd build a monument for him like the one they built for Ted Williams. "They don't build things for Blacks". What???????????????. This statement shows how much he sees only what he wants to. There's a statue of Willy Mays in San Fransisco where he plays for Gods sake!!!!!!!!!

You know, he never says stuff like this to the Northern California media. I'm sort of wondering if he's maybe being intentionally cultivating his bad boy image outside of San Francisco. He knows very well there's a statue of Mays, that the official address of SBC Park is 1 Willie Mays Plaza, and that across the Cove, there's a whole park named after Willie McCovey. And when he retires, Peter Magowan is absolutely going to create something special for Bonds. I think he's just trying to piss off the out-of-town media and fans for fun.

pjstp20 · 06-19-2004, 10:33 PM

Youi may be right. Either that or he just enjoys being an angry person with a chip on his shoulder and an axe to grind. It's similar to his comments on Babe Ruth. Apparently to Barry were back in the 50's and 60's. It's just how he wants to view the world, and it leads to a sad life, I feel sorry for him.

SFL Cat · 06-19-2004, 10:52 PM

I know it would kill him to know this...but Barry has soooo much in common with Ty Cobb.

clintl · 06-19-2004, 10:56 PM

He doesn't play dirty like Cobb did, though.

McSweeny · 06-19-2004, 11:52 PM

i must say, his performance in left field and his general lazy attitude (not running out ground balls) over the past two games against the Red Sox has made me smile. Not to mention him going 0-8 so far with only 1 intentional walk.

MrBug708 · 06-20-2004, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clintl

He doesn't play dirty like Cobb did, though.

Cobb took every illegal advantage that he wanted to.....

Sharpieman · 06-20-2004, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSweeny

i must say, his performance in left field and his general lazy attitude (not running out ground balls) over the past two games against the Red Sox has made me smile. Not to mention him going 0-8 so far with only 1 intentional walk.

It makes me sick when he plays like that. Today was horrible, he didn't hussle to first on a grounder that he would have beat and he made a lazy play that caused an error. At least the rest of the Giants put out an effort to help the team win.

miked · 06-20-2004, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjstp20

Why has this thread turned into a Boston race relations thread? Everyones heard that Boston has been one of the most racist organizatins in baseball, but I think that has changed a bit since the 60's, 70's and 80's. That statement was the least ignorant thing Bonds said in that article.

How about his comments after the reporter asked if they'd build a monument for him like the one they built for Ted Williams. "They don't build things for Blacks". What???????????????. This statement shows how much he sees only what he wants to. There's a statue of Willy Mays in San Fransisco where he plays for Gods sake!!!!!!!!!

In Atlanta, there's also a huge statue of Hank Aaron, and I believe the street address is Hank Aaron Blvd or something like that.

EagleFan · 06-20-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked

In Atlanta, there's also a huge statue of Hank Aaron, and I believe the street address is Hank Aaron Blvd or something like that.

But if you look closely, you'll see that it was built for another Hank Aaron. He was a white guy that worked in accounting.

06-19-2004, 03:31 AM	#3
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Well... Boston doesn't exactly have the best reputation in the field of race relations. Many people still remember that picture of white protestors simulating spearing a black man with an American flag, over the busing rule. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

06-19-2004, 04:19 AM	#4
Bad-example College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: san jose CA	And more to the point, Bonds clearly knew what button to push to stir up the Boston media. __________________ Karaoke Katie drove the crowd wild Every time she'd sing they'd come in for miles Curtain came up, Katie came on Drinking like a lumberjack and singing Delta Dawn

06-19-2004, 04:40 AM	#5
Sharpieman Greatly Missed. (7/11/84-06/12/05) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Palo Alto, CA	I'm a huge Giants fan and I'm biased. But I can say with complete confidence that this isn't a stupid statement by Bonds. Did you know that the Red Sox were the last team to bring in a black player to their team? And it was something like 12 years later after Robinson joined the Dodgers. Not until the 80s did African Americans become regulars on the Red Sox squad. And even then, many African Americans chose to bypass Boston because of its poor record on race relations. I wouldn't blame a African American to hate a city and a team that has had a horrible record of race relations in the past. __________________ Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

06-19-2004, 06:21 AM	#6
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Gotta say it. (and y'all know that I'm not given to cry racism/play the race card, etc.) Call it bad publicity, perception, or reality, but if you asked me of all the medium-to-large-sized cities in America where I wouldn't want to live (particularly being in an interracial marriage), Boston and Birmingham are the only two places that I'd want to avoid. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

06-19-2004, 07:35 AM	#7
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I hate to contribute to the perception of Boston in this way as, quite frankly, I have never been there and have no actual knowledge of the town. But it should be noted this is also the city that featured the dominating Celtics of the 80s, led by premier white players Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Danny Ainge (along with black players Robert Parrish and Dennis Johnson). For years afterward, I came to know Boston's NBA team as a haven for white players, although this impression was likely firmly ingrained in me by growing up watching those great Celtics teams. It should be noted as a counterpoint that Boston seemed to show great love (and later on, loss) for the tragic Reggie Lewis in the years after the fall of the dynasty, and that this was also the franchise which once featured the great (and quite black) Bill Russell. So perhaps this is all just happenstance. CR __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready. Last edited by Chief Rum : 06-19-2004 at 07:37 AM.

06-19-2004, 02:54 AM	#2
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	Nothing more hilarious than the end of the local Red Sox telecast this evening. Sean McDonough is NESN's play-by-play guy. He had this to say about the story as the game was in the bottom of the ninth, striking out against Keith Foulke: "He's never been there but he heard it from other people. We've had Mo Vaughn and many other players. They've been loved in Boston. He's entitled to his opinion. I'm often asked who is the biggest jerk I've ever seen in sports. I say it's that man (camera on him walking to the dugout after the strikeout) right there, because he is. That's just my opinion." Jerry Remy, the color guy, didn't say a thing. Here's a link to the Boston Globe story. Gordon Edes is one of the few writers out there who has earned a lot of respect in RSN. http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...06/18/18bonds/

06-19-2004, 08:26 AM	#8
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Bonds is the biggest jerk in baseball, but Boston has a HORRIBLE reputation in terms of race releations. It may not be fair, but Bonds is not the first athlete I've heard question that aspect of the city. You also have to remember, Barry was 11 in 1975. His dad played ball with the Yankees that year. To say there was racial tension in Boston during that time would be an understatement. In an April series at Boston, Barry would have read news stories about many Boston schools finishing up their FIRST YEAR of integration. Think about that for a second and then tell me it wouldn't impact your view of the city. Still, it's sad that the best player of this generation and probably the best player we will ever get a chance to see in our lifetimes is such a jack-ass when it comes to public relations. If he were as well liked as Cal Ripken or Paul Molitor, he'd be the Michael Jordan of baseball. Instead people use the jerk/steroid issues to sidestep what he's currently doing on the field. Oh, on the field? He's having one of the top 5 seasons for a hitter in the HISTORY of the game. And he's doing it at a month before his 40th birthday.

06-19-2004, 08:48 AM	#9
oykib College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Perhaps he's bad at public relations, Troy. But there's a big difference between that and being the biggest jerk in baseball. I don't remeber any stories about Bonds beating his wife or kids for example. We've got a fair number of guys in the game who have. I also have never seen him throw a bat at a player or go headhunting with a 95+ MPH fastball, etc. As for Boston, it's been documented numerous times that Boston has a bad rep as far as it's treatment of black people-- both among the ranks of pro athletes and common folks. I couldn't tell you whether or not its's deserved. But allow to bring up this point. When Jimmy Kimmel said what he said about Detroit (i.e. black) people, I'm sure a fair number of you felt that there was an overreaction. Are all the same people saying that the same thing here?

06-19-2004, 09:31 AM	#12
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	oyk, You don't have to beat your wife, have 300 children out of wedlock, or be a thief to be a jerk. Maybe the "biggest" jerk is going a bit far, but most everything I've ever read about Barry (even from people close to him) say that he's not that nice of an individual. When a member of the media makes that comment (biggest jerk in baseball), he's talking about HIS personal experience and relationship to the player as much as anything else. That may be wrong, but in the case above the announcer didn't try to hide his bias. Sean McDonough has dealt with a ton of athletes. If that's his opinion, so be it. FWIW I know an ex-Rockies PBP guy. On the golf course one day he was asked the same question by one of our foursome. His reply, without hesitation was Barry Bonds.

06-19-2004, 09:35 AM	#13
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Oyk, Mr. Bug is referring to this incident: ``I learned to focus between the lines when I got divorced in 1993 and you guys were calling me a woman beater and all this other crap that wasn't true,'' he told reporters Monday. ``My dad was the one who showed me how to deal with it.'' Police were called to Bonds' home in Atherton in 1993 by his then-wife, Sun. She told police her husband had struck her and pushed her down the stairs. But she later declined to cooperate with investigators, and prosecutors did not find enough evidence to file charges. Sorry Bug, doesn't seem to be a lot of proof there. I'm not going to call Barry a wife beater over that.

06-19-2004, 01:46 PM	#14
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	I've lived in a few places, and right now I'm more than an hour away from Boston and am relatively new to the area so I can hardly call myself an expert. I just don't get that sense about Boston or the surrounding area. For one, it's the most socially liberal areas I've seen. Moreso even than Seattle, where we lived before moving here. I doubt anyone would even bat an eye about SkyDog's marriage. Massachusetts is behind only DC in its likelihood to vote Democrat these days. I lived in North Carolina for a few years after college. Racial tension was everywhere. People talked about it, you couldn't go anywhere without someone glaring at you. It was a divided society (while I was there, John Edwards was elected, so I guess that's where he got his schtick). I lived for a year in western Michigan. Very conservative, openly racist. SkyDog would have trouble in the Grand Rapids area. I think it's unfortunate that the Red Sox ownership through the last century was racist. Being the last to integrate has added to the reputation. I don't know about the busing cases, I wasn't here and people don't talk about it a lot, I guess. I read the Sons of Sam Horn board a lot, and I doubt an openly racist poster would have much luck becoming accepted. Myself, I wouldn't want to live in the immediate Boston area because the home prices in the areas where crime isn't at bad parts of Florida levels are ridiculously expensive. Since my "job" makes me free to live anywhere, I've thought a lot about where I'd want to live. I think we made a good choice about NH. It's nothing like the stereotypes would suggest. Perhaps Boston's reputation is similarly unfounded. At any rate, McDonough's point was that only someone as assinine as Bonds would relay that comment, second-hand. He admits he's never even been to Boston. And while he certainly has friends who have played there, I've never seen any indication that the black players are treated any differently than the white ones. There are a lot of dark faces in the starting lineup, and the team has about 100 straight home sellouts.

06-19-2004, 01:56 PM	#15
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	This is hardly breaking news. I live in Boston and even before I lived here I heard that about the city. Where I live, if I see two black people in a day, I'm shocked, and it's wayyy different from having lived in Atlanta. As has been said before, Boston was the last team to integrate and even if you go to a game, you will most likely see 97% white fans. I mean, look at who the fans and city gravitate to. One of the league's best pitchers...Pedro? No. One of baseball's best hitters, Manny? No. It's the "workhorses" (Boston loves to use that phrase) like Trot Nixon, One year wonders Kevin Millar and Bill Mueller. Why would Barry want to play there? P.S. I don't like Barry and for the most part enjoy the city of Boston. It's just plainly obvious to anyone who spends more than a few days here that it's not the best situation for race relations.

06-19-2004, 02:39 PM	#17
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	It's all perception guys. I can fault Barry for a lot of things, but have a tough time finding a lot of fault in his statement. The only thing I could criticize is that he didn't word his answer a little better. If he'd have said something along the lines of, "When I was growing up, I read about a lot of the racial problems Boston had. I have no desire to play there," it would have sounded better than what came out.

06-19-2004, 04:31 PM	#22
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	I guess Boston can never get over it's past? What kind of shallow thinking is that, oh right this is Barry Bonds we're talking about. I'm getting sick of that jerk and his race card he plays every other week about something. It's BS like that helps perpetuate the perception of racism.

06-19-2004, 04:42 PM	#23
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	I just want to add that it has been 15 years since I've been in the Grand Rapids area, and it would be naive to think that things haven't changed. My intent was not to insult anyone, and I'll remove my responses if people find them offensive. In response to MikeD, I wanted to point out something about Boston: Races in Boston: * White Non-Hispanic (49.5%) * Black (25.3%) * Hispanic (14.4%) * Other race (7.8%) * Two or more races (4.4%) * Chinese (3.3%) * Vietnamese (1.8%) * American Indian (0.9%) * Asian Indian (0.8%) * Other Asian (0.5%) (Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races) Ancestries: Irish (15.8%), Italian (8.3%), West Indian (6.4%), English (4.5%), German (4.1%), Subsaharan African (3.6%). Races in Cambridge: * White Non-Hispanic (64.6%) * Black (11.9%) * Hispanic (7.4%) * Chinese (4.8%) * Two or more races (4.6%) * Other race (3.2%) * Asian Indian (2.7%) * Korean (1.9%) * Other Asian (1.1%) * Japanese (0.9%) * American Indian (0.8%) (Total can be greater than 100% because Hispanics could be counted in other races) Ancestries: Irish (13.3%), English (9.2%), German (7.9%), Italian (7.5%), West Indian (5.1%), Russian (3.8%). Now, that doesn't mean there aren't highly segregated pockets, but Boston is a very diverse community.

06-19-2004, 05:00 PM	#24
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	Interesting, because you wouldn't know it by walking around. I definately know there are "pockets" of different races, as there most likely are in lots of cities. But from my experience here, it does seem to be pretty white (except the Downtown Crossing area). Who knows, but I have encountered quite a lot of racist folks in my time here.

06-19-2004, 05:13 PM	#25
BishopMVP Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Concord, MA/UMass	The Red Sox had a racist ownership - back in the 50's, and Boston went through an openly racist phase during the busing crisis in the mid-1970's. (FWIW Troy it wasn't that schools were being integrated for the first time, but that the city was busing kids to different parts of the city to achieve a better racial balance.) Since I've lived here (1992) I don't think I've met more than 5 or 10 openly racist people, even though I live in a lily-white town (probably 10 black families at most in a town of 20k) in the suburbs where the racist white people supposedly moved out to to avoid the busing. IMO, it's pretty much all perception at this point and there are plenty of examples from the past 20 years to show that black/minority players are loved by the fans (Pedro until he started getting hurt, Nomar, Ellis Burks, Mo, look at the Patriots, Pierce, etc.)

06-19-2004, 05:18 PM	#27
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Since when is Hispanic considered white?

06-19-2004, 05:22 PM	#29
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	shrugs I can't wait to tell my hispanic friends that they are white, just like me. That'll go over REAL well.

06-19-2004, 05:28 PM	#30
vtbub College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burlington, VT USA	European origin. __________________

06-19-2004, 06:27 PM	#31
LionsFan10 High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Detroit, MI, U.S.A	Being Puerto Rican, I'm considered "white" hispanic even though my father is so dark he is often time mistaken for black. It's odd, honestly but I don't really care either way what I'm labeled. I know one thing though, Puerto Rican's didn't make up that label for ourselves. __________________ It's true, it's true.

06-19-2004, 08:02 PM	#32
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	People clinging to lingering beliefs about Boston's inferiority in race relations reminds me of old people clinging to lingering beliefs about the inferiority of races. But there's no basis to either. Here's what this thread has come up for reasons Boston is racist: 1. The Red Sox were a racist organization under Yawkey. Absolutely. But he's been dead for 30 years. Did other parts of the country have powerfull racists that grew up in the 1920s? 2. The Celtics have had a lot of white players True - but the Celtics also had the NBA's first black player, the NBA's first all black starting five, and most importantly, the first black coach - in ANY major American professional sport. Why is this never brougt up? 3. Boston schools didn't integrate until 1975. What? TroyF is a smart guy, which tells me many other people must have misunderstood this part of history, and god knows how many actually believe this is true - which I'm sure hurts this racist perception. No, unlike the South, Boston never segregated public schools - they did take an active step to make their schools more diverse by bussing some students to schools outside their neighborhoods 4. Boston seems white when you walk around there. True - Boston has always been very segregated in terms of neighborhoods (hence the attempt at bussing), but this goes for all nationalities - particularly Irish and Italian. This is difficult to understand from someone not from here. I believe Boston has America's last predominantly poor, white, Ethnic neighborhoods. Whether such lasting indenties of 200+ year old neighborhoods is good or bad, I have no idea, but it's not a white/minority thing. 5. Boston fans prefer the white athlete. This is always brought up - but I just don't see it. Manny and Pedro are hugely popular - easily the two most popular locally, despite Pedro's diva attitude and Manny's occasional mental mistakes. Yes, Millar and Mueller were popular (at least last year - though sports raido callers want Millar out of town now), but Ortiz and Pokey are MUCH more popular at the moment. Pokey has become something of a cult hero in the last few weeks. Yes, Boston fans are passionate and will turn on you quickly, but this only gives those with a racial agenda to cry foul. Barry may have "heard things" from his father's peers. But he shouldn't educate his son, and his son's peers, on 30-year old 2nd hand "ideas" of the city. How does that help progress?

06-19-2004, 08:55 PM	#33
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	Why has this thread turned into a Boston race relations thread? Everyones heard that Boston has been one of the most racist organizatins in baseball, but I think that has changed a bit since the 60's, 70's and 80's. That statement was the least ignorant thing Bonds said in that article. How about his comments after the reporter asked if they'd build a monument for him like the one they built for Ted Williams. "They don't build things for Blacks". What???????????????. This statement shows how much he sees only what he wants to. There's a statue of Willy Mays in San Fransisco where he plays for Gods sake!!!!!!!!! Last edited by pjstp20 : 06-19-2004 at 09:09 PM.

06-19-2004, 10:33 PM	#36
pjstp20 High School Varsity Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL	Youi may be right. Either that or he just enjoys being an angry person with a chip on his shoulder and an axe to grind. It's similar to his comments on Babe Ruth. Apparently to Barry were back in the 50's and 60's. It's just how he wants to view the world, and it leads to a sad life, I feel sorry for him.

06-19-2004, 10:52 PM	#37
SFL Cat College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: South Florida	I know it would kill him to know this...but Barry has soooo much in common with Ty Cobb.

06-19-2004, 10:56 PM	#38
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	He doesn't play dirty like Cobb did, though.

06-19-2004, 11:52 PM	#39
McSweeny College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somerville, MA	i must say, his performance in left field and his general lazy attitude (not running out ground balls) over the past two games against the Red Sox has made me smile. Not to mention him going 0-8 so far with only 1 intentional walk.

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