which kind of future?

[Tara]

I've noticed that you use to post thread just on everything you feel, well this time, trying to overcome my shiness, I'm doing the same.

This evening, I'm really pissed, sad, angry and on the point of start crying for the fucking situation that as a scientist I'm living and I'm going to live in Italy. What I want to say is complicated and quite long, so I don't know If I can manage all this without make a great mess. Sorry in advance. Moreover I don't want you be enough patient to read everything I'm going to write. This thread It's just a way to 'throw out' everything...

I don't know if you guys and ladies have a little idea of the italian situation. I'm graduating. I'm graduating after 4 year of university, no year missed. That's my 5th year. I've just to do my last exam. But I got time because my research work will last 1 year and 1/2. Now it's 7 month I'm working. In this period I've lost a huge amount of time cos a machine (great part of my work is programming) stop working and there wasn't money to fix it. So all the time spent to get used with that processor was litterally threw away, and I started using a stupid windows machine that goes down one time on two.
And I'm lucky, I'm working in a field in physic that has strong pratical applcation. So the thing is considered somehow usefull and something (I mean money) arrives, at least for the basic instrument.
I'm lucky because I'll be gratuated (if everything goes well) at 24 years, that's very below italian avarage.
I'm lucky, also because (always if everything goes well) my lab makes lotta publications so if I'll keep working maybe will be something for me.

But I still see no future at all. There is no future for none of italian scientists...unless you know someone somewhere with some power. In that case you can also be a fucking stupid dummy.

This evening I was watching a tv programm about italian researchers. And that's the thing that make me so sad. I was about to crying.
Great researchers, great ideas just waiting for money that will never come.
Great researchers that are considered genii in other conuntry working with old instruments an for less than 1000$ in a month.
Great ideas never developed that must be sell to the best foreign offer because there are no money to spend.
And researchers fly away. Here none understand that to make a country growth you must spend on research programs. And so on everithing will get worse and worse.
When I see that, I think my life is working hard from the high school to my last year of university to have nothing back. Yes, you can change country but you have to be really good. Maybe I can work on this idea, but is too damn difficoult. And even if possible i don't want to live on this illusion.

You see here in italy everyone goes around very proud of his new car and new hot dress, but none cares of what is really important ( i'm not talking only about research, we gotta a lot of problems here). I don't know where we are going. I'm just sad tonight.

[NoMyths]

Italian scientists have been important in the past. There is little reason to doubt they will be important in the future.

Besides, it could be worse...you could be trying to make a career as a poet, like some misguided idiots.

[Comey]

You need the kind of quality Italian dinner that only the Olive Garden can provide.

That said, it's refreshing to see someone my age (I'm 25) that is actually concerned about their surroundings, rather than themselves. I'm also sorry about your situation. Have you tried talking to anyone that's able to do something about it? Are you able to do something about it?

If you feel that strongly about it, then you may have the power to change it.

I also wish that I had the ability to cry over something like that. That's not a knock or stereotype on my American generation...that's just my depression and my inability to have anything but apathy, no matter how hard I try.

Good luck.

[miked]

I figured the drug companies would flock over there because the regulations aren't as stiff here. Whenever I go to conferences, the European and Japanese scientists are always presenting some cutting edge stuff because of that. I got my PhD from Emory and the average age for a scientist to get his/her first real grant here in the states (R01) is 42. That means somebody like me who graduates at 26 or 27 has to put up with 15 years of making no money and not doing the research they really want to do unless they can find a bankroll. I feel bad if you feel there's no future for scientists in Italy, but in the states the money is dwindling as well.

Good luck and feel better.

[albionmoonlight]

I know very little about the details of your situation (or the situation of Itallian scientists generally). However, I can say that sometimes "tv programs" make things out to be a lot worse than they really are. There were a lot of us in America (about half) who thought that things would be terrible when the current President got elected. There were also a lot of us (the other half) who thought that things would be terrible with the President before him. The TV Programs liked to fuel those fires. In reality, however, things are generally not as dire (on a large scale) as the media portrays them to be.

I know what it is like to love a place and watch it making bad choices (my home state, Louisiana, is rightly criticized by the rest of America for being the most backwards-thinking state in America). And sometimes you just need to vent and cry. But then you can also realize that there are great things about your home that make you love it in the first place.

You would not feel so sad for Italy if you did not love it, and you would not love it if there were not good things there to love. Focus on those when things seem really dire, and work to change what you can.

[DaddyTorgo]

Tara...have you thought about moving to another EU country where the climate is better for scientists?? Other than that I feel for you, because I know what you're going through.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I know very little about the details of your situation (or the situation of Itallian scientists generally). However, I can say that sometimes "tv programs" make things out to be a lot worse than they really are. There were a lot of us in America (about half) who thought that things would be terrible when the current President got elected. There were also a lot of us (the other half) who thought that things would be terrible with the President before him. The TV Programs liked to fuel those fires. In reality, however, things are generally not as dire (on a large scale) as the media portrays them to be.

Um, I'm not so sure this is a great example.

[Tara]

Originally Posted by Comey

You need the kind of quality Italian dinner that only the Olive Garden can provide.

That said, it's refreshing to see someone my age (I'm 25) that is actually concerned about their surroundings, rather than themselves. I'm also sorry about your situation. Have you tried talking to anyone that's able to do something about it? Are you able to do something about it?

If you feel that strongly about it, then you may have the power to change it.

I also wish that I had the ability to cry over something like that. That's not a knock or stereotype on my American generation...that's just my depression and my inability to have anything but apathy, no matter how hard I try.

Good luck.

Thanks for the olive garden suggestion. I've read so much here about that place that the frist time i'll come to the us i'll try it...

BTW, about talkin with someone, I really hope to work well in my lab, cos they are in touch with canadian group. Could be a starting point...

[Tara]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Tara...have you thought about moving to another EU country where the climate is better for scientists?? Other than that I feel for you, because I know what you're going through.

Always thinking about that. I'll try but it's difficult and i prefer, at the moment, live day by day, work hard, wait for my graduation and then see. About that, better go to sleep. Here is past midnight and tomorrow I've to wake up at 6:00 am.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by Tara

Thanks for the olive garden suggestion. I've read so much here about that place that the frist time i'll come to the us i'll try it...

BTW, about talkin with someone, I really hope to work well in my lab, cos they are in touch with canadian group. Could be a starting point...

I was kidding about the Olive Garden. It's horrible now (at least each of the ones I've been to in the past two years have been, and those were spread out among different parts of the country).

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Tara

Thanks for the olive garden suggestion. I've read so much here about that place that the frist time i'll come to the us i'll try it...

BTW, about talkin with someone, I really hope to work well in my lab, cos they are in touch with canadian group. Could be a starting point...

OMG, please, please, please do not make your first meal in the US be the freaking Olive Garden. It's wrong for any person, but especially wrong for someone from Italy.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Well, there's always the adult website business to fall back on...

you wish

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Um, I'm not so sure this is a great example.

Seconded. Some would consider the current administration's "support" of science to be nearly catastrophic.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Threadjack in 3...2...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Threadjack in 3...2...

Twas kinda predictable, once the topic was introduced, it was much like night follows day.

{figuring we can set up an argument over whether night follows day or if day follows night}

[albionmoonlight]

Sorry, I thought that my point was not all that worthy of a threadjack.

And, JoninMiddleGA, as any fool knows, there is no night above the Arctic Circle today. Are you saying that Alaskans aren't people too? Figures. Damn Republicans.

[CamEdwards]

Speaking on behalf of Republicans everywhere, of course Alaskans are people too.

Unless we're talking about Eskimos, in which case no, they're not.

[Esquared1]

Originally Posted by Tara

. .

You see here in italy everyone goes around very proud of his new car and new hot dress, but none cares of what is really important ( i'm not talking only about research, we gotta a lot of problems here). I don't know where we are going. I'm just sad tonight.

Funny you should mention this. . .My future wife's (Graziella) family is from Sicily. They will talk about the family in Sicily and how they spend so much money on new clothes and they don't have running water. Then Graziella's parents go and spend so much money on stupid stuff, and Graziella wants to do the same thing until I have to remind her. . .

I say over and over again, we need to prepare for tomorrow, and realize that we are very fortunate to have what we DO have. We watched a new show here in America called 30 days, where this couple lived on a $7 an hour job for 30 days. First, it shows how bad some people have it, and second, it reminds us that we are blessed/fortunate to have what we have.

Gladly you blessed to be well educated at a very young age. For this you can be very proud. You may not have a career decided, but you have options. Not many people have options. Graziella is also 25, has the same sort of thoughts as you. When I was 25, I thought the same thing too. When I was 28, I realized that if I just tried the best I can, and find an activity/job/career that uses my talents, I would be successful.

It may sound weird, but I wrote down on one side my talents, and on the other side, those things I'm average at, but could improve in time. When finding a job, I needed a job that helps me improve all of those things, but has my talents as the most important part of the job. It worked for me, for whatever that is worth.

[Tara]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

OMG, please, please, please do not make your first meal in the US be the freaking Olive Garden. It's wrong for any person, but especially wrong for someone from Italy.

It was a joke! I read enough here on some previous thread to avoid that place...

[Tara]

Originally Posted by Esquared1

Funny you should mention this. . .My future wife's (Graziella) family is from Sicily. They will talk about the family in Sicily and how they spend so much money on new clothes and they don't have running water. Then Graziella's parents go and spend so much money on stupid stuff, and Graziella wants to do the same thing until I have to remind her. . .

I say over and over again, we need to prepare for tomorrow, and realize that we are very fortunate to have what we DO have. We watched a new show here in America called 30 days, where this couple lived on a $7 an hour job for 30 days. First, it shows how bad some people have it, and second, it reminds us that we are blessed/fortunate to have what we have.

Gladly you blessed to be well educated at a very young age. For this you can be very proud. You may not have a career decided, but you have options. Not many people have options. Graziella is also 25, has the same sort of thoughts as you. When I was 25, I thought the same thing too. When I was 28, I realized that if I just tried the best I can, and find an activity/job/career that uses my talents, I would be successful.

It may sound weird, but I wrote down on one side my talents, and on the other side, those things I'm average at, but could improve in time. When finding a job, I needed a job that helps me improve all of those things, but has my talents as the most important part of the job. It worked for me, for whatever that is worth.

Nice to know that someone, from the other side of the ocean, with experience on my country see the same things i see. BTW I like the way you think about your own life.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

Seconded. Some would consider the current administration's "support" of science to be nearly catastrophic.

Not if you are a researcher for the Army

[miked]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

Seconded. Some would consider the current administration's "support" of science to be nearly catastrophic.

Yeah, funding levels at the NIH and other institutions are nearly at all-time lows. I believe it has dipped below 10% for an R01 whereas it was well above 20% for quite some time. Last year, I believe it was increased just a meager 2% with most of that money earmarked for bioterrorism defense projects and radiological and nuclear countermeasures. The AIDS budged was increased slightly, but heart disease, which costs this country more than any medical condition is only 8% or so. The increases within the last 6 years have been the lowest and aren't getting any better.

So write to your damn congress-person so I can get a grant, man!

[Icy]

We have the same problem in Spain, so our better doctors etc go to USA to work for huge money and having huge money to expend also on investigation. It's so sad that our goberments don't pay enought atention to sciences.

[Franklinnoble]

Guess us capitalist pigs aren't so bad after all?