OT: New Car Buying Help!

[RPI-Fan]

Hi everyone!

I am buying my first new car (first time I am buying a car, period, actually), and am stuck on what to do.

I have it narrowed down to an '05 Civic or '05 Impreza Wagon Outback Sport.

The Civics could be an LX or EX (EX comes with moonroof and better fuel economy) (EX would cost about $1.5k more). The Subaru is black, has 6-disc changer and some other minor features that the Civic doesn't. It, of course, is AWD, but gets much worse mileage than the Civic (22/28 for Subaru, 30/38 for Civic), and costs about $1k more than the Civic EX.

Does anyone have any experience with these cars, or any advice to offer on how to at least go about deciding?


Thanks so much for any help!!!

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Hi everyone!

I am buying my first new car (first time I am buying a car, period, actually), and am stuck on what to do.

I have it narrowed down to an '05 Civic or '05 Impreza Wagon Outback Sport.

The Civics could be an LX or EX (EX comes with moonroof and better fuel economy) (EX would cost about $1.5k more). The Subaru is black, has 6-disc changer and some other minor features that the Civic doesn't. It, of course, is AWD, but gets much worse mileage than the Civic (22/28 for Subaru, 30/38 for Civic), and costs about $1k more than the Civic EX.

Does anyone have any experience with these cars, or any advice to offer on how to at least go about deciding?


Thanks so much for any help!!!

For those winters, you'll love the Outback, but I'm not sure if you'll love the gas milage.

I've have a Honda now and the thing is great. As long as you change the oil, get breaks every 40-50k and new tires every now and then, the thing never breaks down. They are just fine in the snow, you might want to upgrade the tires though after you buy it (as you would with most cars - the tires they generally put on in the factory are really cheap). 4 wheel drive is overrated most of the time in my opinion. Not saying its not nice to have, and that it doesn't work, but I think you can get by just fine by driving slow and driving smart. It sounds to me that you'd be leaning on towards getting the Outback simply because of the 4 wheel drive and CD changer.

I wouldn't get too caught up with the CD changer stuff and all that jazz. They charge (the dealership) so much for that stuff. If possible, I'd tell them not even to bother putting in a radio, go down to best buy, and get a CD/MP3 player for about $200, which will be much better than anything you'll get in a factory installed setup.

[RPI-Fan]

I wouldn't get too caught up with the CD changer stuff and all that jazz. They charge (the dealership) so much for that stuff. If possible, I'd tell them not even to bother putting in a radio, go down to best buy, and get a CD/MP3 player for about $200, which will be much better than anything you'll get in a factory installed setup.

Yea', the Subaru just had little gadgets like that CD player that the Civic lacked (though I could get a Civic that had them, for a little more, but still less than the Impreza).

The big appeal to the Outback would be the 4WD, and generally I could see myself driving that long after I graduate college, which I can't necessarily say about the Civic. Should I factor this into my thinking, or really worry about the relative short-term (i.e. 48 months -- the length of my financing)?

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Yea', the Subaru just had little gadgets like that CD player that the Civic lacked (though I could get a Civic that had them, for a little more, but still less than the Impreza).

The big appeal to the Outback would be the 4WD, and generally I could see myself driving that long after I graduate college, which I can't necessarily say about the Civic. Should I factor this into my thinking, or really worry about the relative short-term (i.e. 48 months -- the length of my financing)?

Well, you're going to have to pick something out that you'll be happy with. Cars in general are a terrible investment. If you can find something that you'll be happy with for the next 10 years (driving it 6 years after it's paid for) then go for it.

I know you mentioned in your post above that you're looking at 2 '05 models. Have you ever considered driving a preowned (certified) car? The past 2 cars that I've bought (mine and my wife's) have been "Barely used" used cars, and I couldn't be happier. I ended up getting an 02 Honda Accord EX that was pretty much loaded (this was late 2003 at the time) with only 18,000 miles on it for roughly the same price as a new Honda CIVIC. What I ended up getting was a much nicer car for the same price. Sure, it had 18,000 miles on it, but thats pretty new to me. Thing still runs great to this day. I doubt that I'll ever buy new again just for the de-valueing that goes on after you take it off the lot. The arguement has been made here before that alot of low mileage used cars are actually vehicles right off the lease, which might be true, and that they might be a little abused. Just get a nice warranty and have it thoughly checked out (pay a mechanic $100-200 to do some engine tests) and you should have piece of mind. I can't stress the overall value of getting a lightly used car.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Well, you're going to have to pick something out that you'll be happy with. Cars in general are a terrible investment. If you can find something that you'll be happy with for the next 10 years (driving it 6 years after it's paid for) then go for it.

I know you mentioned in your post above that you're looking at 2 '05 models. Have you ever considered driving a preowned (certified) car? The past 2 cars that I've bought (mine and my wife's) have been "Barely used" used cars, and I couldn't be happier. I ended up getting an 02 Honda Accord EX that was pretty much loaded (this was late 2003 at the time) with only 18,000 miles on it for roughly the same price as a new Honda CIVIC. What I ended up getting was a much nicer car for the same price. Sure, it had 18,000 miles on it, but thats pretty new to me. Thing still runs great to this day. I doubt that I'll ever buy new again just for the de-valueing that goes on after you take it off the lot. The arguement has been made here before that alot of low mileage used cars are actually vehicles right off the lease, which might be true, and that they might be a little abused. Just get a nice warranty and have it thoughly checked out (pay a mechanic $100-200 to do some engine tests) and you should have piece of mind. I can't stress the overall value of getting a lightly used car.

I have thought about that. I was looking at an '04 Saturn Ion for $13,000 with 3,000 (!) miles on it -- the equivalent new one would run me about $16,500 (all these prices before tax & fees -- the prices in my first post are AFTER the extra charges). However, the Ion has little or no resale value, while the Civics and Subarus do (Subarus maybe even more, because they are so hard to find used).

In fact, that is the very reason I am looking new. Used Civics are only like $1-2k less, and used Subarus are impossible to find since very few people get rid of them.

edit: Thanks so much for the input! You're helping me very much, to at least get my thinking more focused!

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

I have thought about that. I was looking at an '04 Saturn Ion for $13,000 with 3,000 (!) miles on it -- the equivalent new one would run me about $16,500 (all these prices before tax & fees -- the prices in my first post are AFTER the extra charges). However, the Ion has little or no resale value, while the Civics and Subarus do (Subarus maybe even more, because they are so hard to find used).

In fact, that is the very reason I am looking new. Used Civics are only like $1-2k less, and used Subarus are impossible to find since very few people get rid of them.

edit: Thanks so much for the input! You're helping me very much, to at least get my thinking more focused!

Glad to help, not trying to steer you in any one direction, but sometimes a different opinion can help.

Going back to the Ion, do you like the Car? Is it reliable, and will it last a long time? If so, maybe that might be the best bet. Resale factor is an imporant number - if you're looking to get out of it in a few years , however, if you're looking to keep it until it breaks, you're looking at longevity.

Its more of a lifestyle decision. I know people who just HAVE to be in a new (or new used) car every 2-3 years. To them, the resale value is important. To others, they want a car that will last a long time, because they don't want to keep on paying for cars. Its really whats important to you. I'd write down in order what you think is important in a car (looks, gas mileage, neat features, 4wd, resale value, longevity,etc) and I think you'll have your answer.

[Dutch]

I was looking at new Honda Civics when I was car buying a few months ago.

I didn't like the DX, the ride felt odd on the freeway. I didn't drive an LX. The EX is almost a must for Civic's, but the price of the EX suddenly puts more options (different cars to choose from) at your disposal.

I also drove the Hyundai Elantra but that was the worst ride (freeway) of all the compacts I test drove. But had a ton of features, great warranty, and the best price.

I really wanted a Civic, my wife really wanted an Elantra.

I ended up buying a used fully loaded VW Jetta.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I was looking at new Honda Civics when I was car buying a few months ago.

I didn't like the DX, the ride felt odd on the freeway. I didn't drive an LX. The EX is almost a must for Civic's, but the price of the EX suddenly puts more options (different cars to choose from) at your disposal.

I also drove the Hyundai Elantra but that was the worst ride (freeway) of all the compacts I test drove. But had a ton of features, great warranty, and the best price.

I really wanted a Civic, my wife really wanted an Elantra.

I ended up buying a used fully loaded VW Jetta.

I hear that Hyundai's are reputable now, but I still have trouble getting over their past. They made some really really shitty cars in the 90's.

[Swaggs]

I think either of those two choices will be a good one, as we own a Subaru and a Honda.

The choice you need to make is do want the AWD vs the gas mileage and which do you think is better looking?

[pbot]

My wife and I have purchased three Honda Civics (all EXs) in the past 11 years. First one I traded in with about 75k miles on it because I wanted a pickup truck (stupid). Second one I just traded in with 168k miles on it because I needed something with better gas mileage (Toyota Prius...currently averaging 57 mpg....w00t). The third one is what my wife drives every day, has 65k miles on it currently.

Other than the routine maintenance - oil changes and the recommended servicing at various mileage intervals - the only money we've spent on "repairs" for all three cars combined has been for new brake pads on the second one. Not too bad for over 300k combined miles. Civics will run forever.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think either of those two choices will be a good one, as we own a Subaru and a Honda.

The choice you need to make is do want the AWD vs the gas mileage and which do you think is better looking?

The difference in mileage comes out to $2,000 over 5 years (the length of my financing), which is certainly noticeable but also not a deal breaker. I spent $1200 if I buy lunch instead of bringing it in ONE YEAR, so although the $2k might seem like a lot, it isn't that bad.

The AWD has the potential to be very nice in the winter around here, which can get a little tricky.

I GREATLY prefer the way the Subaru looks, as the Civic is a cookie-cutter design which the Impreza certainly is not.

Right now, I'm strongly leaning Impreza. The one thing keeping me from it, is the fact that it hasn't been around long enough to determine 100k+ mile reliability (though you could ASSUME it's pretty strong).

~rpi-fan

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by pbot

My wife and I have purchased three Honda Civics (all EXs) in the past 11 years. First one I traded in with about 75k miles on it because I wanted a pickup truck (stupid). Second one I just traded in with 168k miles on it because I needed something with better gas mileage (Toyota Prius...currently averaging 57 mpg....w00t). The third one is what my wife drives every day, has 65k miles on it currently.

Other than the routine maintenance - oil changes and the recommended servicing at various mileage intervals - the only money we've spent on "repairs" for all three cars combined has been for new brake pads on the second one. Not too bad for over 300k combined miles. Civics will run forever.

Just curious... how much did you get for your trade-ins (percentage of original cost?)?

[Greyroofoo]

I'd buy a car that is 2 years old or so. Often times they're only 2/3 the price of a new car and they're virtually the same car.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Lady H_B and I bought a 2005 Outback. I don't think it was an Imperza Wagon Outback Sport, but we got it back in January '05 and so far so good. Actually we love it. Great car.

[Chubby]

i have a '02 civic EX, love it, wouldn't trade it for anything. never breaks down and gets great gas mileage

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Lady H_B and I bought a 2005 Outback. I don't think it was an Imperza Wagon Outback Sport, but we got it back in January '05 and so far so good. Actually we love it. Great car.

Outback is a different car... but decision is getting tougher and tougher as it nears. Like the mileage of the Civic EX, love everything else about the Subaru (reliability seems to be about equal).

[pbot]

Don't remember what they gave us for trade in on the first one. The 168k miler got hammered due to mileage. With half as many miles, I probably could've gotten around $5k for it.

[Bearcat729]

I bought a 2003 Civic LX brand new and it is a excellent car. I've put about 40,000 miles on it and haven't had any problems with it so far.

The only thing I would have liked is AWD during the winter. Other than that I love my car.

[Swaggs]

Hondas generally have much better resale then their main competitors, Toyota and Nissan, because they do not sell their cars directly to the big rental outlets. I'm not sure about Subaru, but they are a fairly unique make with their all-AWD lineup.

[RPI-Fan]

Update:

As of right now, I'm ready to get the Civic EXSE (SE adds in spoiler and 6-disc, in addition to nicer wheels)!

We'll see how I feel when I wake up tomorrow, though. If things go well, I may be ready to drive off the lot with the vehicle tomorrow, but that's probably not going to happen and will need to wait until Tuesday or Wednesday. Nevertheless, I'm very excited!

~rpi-fan

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Update:

As of right now, I'm ready to get the Civic EXSE (SE adds in spoiler and 6-disc, in addition to nicer wheels)!

We'll see how I feel when I wake up tomorrow, though. If things go well, I may be ready to drive off the lot with the vehicle tomorrow, but that's probably not going to happen and will need to wait until Tuesday or Wednesday. Nevertheless, I'm very excited!

~rpi-fan

Cool, sounds like you made a good choice! The civic is a great car. Should last you 10 years with no trouble, even if your putting on 20k a year. The body is solid, and you won't feel ashamed driving it around 10 years from now because its pretty conservative.

[Craptacular]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

I hear that Hyundai's are reputable now, but I still have trouble getting over their past. They made some really really shitty cars in the 90's.

I have a 2003 Elantra GT. About 35K miles, zero problems (well, other than getting chips on my windshield from kicked-up rocks). Fabulous car so far. Hyundai has in fact made incredible strides in recent years. The Sonata in particular has gotten great reviews and reliability scores. The Elantra was the Edmunds Editors' Most Wanted compact for 2003, beating out the Corollas and Civics of the world. I believe the Elantra hasn't been changed much in the last couple of years, so I suspect the quality of the 05s is similar. If you're considering a Civic, at least check out an Elantra. Yes, Civics and Corollas have better resale at the moment, but if the quality of the Elantra holds up over time, the resales will reflect that. Besides, considering how much less you'll pay for an Elantra, and the warranty you get, the difference in resale years down the road might be negligible.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Craptacular

I have a 2003 Elantra GT. About 35K miles, zero problems (well, other than getting chips on my windshield from kicked-up rocks). Fabulous car so far. Hyundai has in fact made incredible strides in recent years. The Sonata in particular has gotten great reviews and reliability scores. The Elantra was the Edmunds Editors' Most Wanted compact for 2003, beating out the Corollas and Civics of the world. I believe the Elantra hasn't been changed much in the last couple of years, so I suspect the quality of the 05s is similar. If you're considering a Civic, at least check out an Elantra. Yes, Civics and Corollas have better resale at the moment, but if the quality of the Elantra holds up over time, the resales will reflect that. Besides, considering how much less you'll pay for an Elantra, and the warranty you get, the difference in resale years down the road might be negligible.

My sister has an '02 Elantra and has had nothing but bad luck with it. So because of that close experience, there's no way I'd look at a Hyundai, whether or nor it makes sense to.

[RPI-Fan]

Dropped down a deposit on an '05 Magnesium (Gray) Civic EXSE, today!

~rpi-fan

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Dropped down a deposit on an '05 Magnesium (Gray) Civic EXSE, today!

~rpi-fan

Congrats!

[Pacersfan46]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Dropped down a deposit on an '05 Magnesium (Gray) Civic EXSE, today!

~rpi-fan

Congrats. I had a Honda Civic, and that thing ran for 5 years with nothing but routine maintenence. I love my Mitsubishi Eclipse, but I wouldn't hesitate to get another Honda Civic.

In fact, I'm rustling over spending more money on a car myself. I have 97 Eclipse (70,000 miles) fully loaded, and turbo. I could sell it for enough to pay it off, and have a couple thousand left over. Thinking about doing it, and getting one of the new 06 Eclipse's. Damn I want one .... but do I want the payment for years more, when I can just finish paying off mine and save money?

I'll probably pass, but it's been running through my brain.

[Blackadar]

As the resident Subaru fan on this board, I'd like to say you made the wrong choice. But Civics are good cars. I've just owned Subarus for the past 20 years and loved 'em. AWD rocks not just for bad weather, but for handling in general.

[terpkristin]

Ditto what Blackadar said in general about Subarus and Civics.
Not a bad purchase of the Civic, though I do love the Subaru (we've had two in our family--my first car and my dad's car which he bought after falling in love with mine).

/tk