Front Office Football Central  

Go Back   Front Office Football Central > Main Forums > Off Topic
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read Statistics

View Poll Results: Recession?
No recession - just isolated parts of our economy 11 6.71%
Recession - bottomed out, going to get better soon 12 7.32%
Recession - going to get worse before better 85 51.83%
Recession - going to get real bad 56 34.15%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-20-2008, 11:30 PM   #451
JPhillips
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
This is what I'm talking about. From the WSJ:

Quote:
House Republican staffers met with roughly 15 lobbyists Friday afternoon, whose message to lawmakers was clear: Don't load the legislation up with provisions not directly related to the crisis, or regulatory measures the industry has long opposed.

"We're opposed to adding provisions that will affect [or] undermine the deal substantively," said Scott Talbott, senior vice president of government affairs at the Financial Services Roundtable, whose members include the nation's largest banks, securities firms and insurers.

A deal killer for the group: a proposal that would grant bankruptcy judges new powers to lower the principal, interest rate or both on a mortgage as part of a bankruptcy proceeding.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers
JPhillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 12:14 AM   #452
Marc Vaughan
SI Games
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
Giving Paulson 700 billion with no oversight and no recourse if things go badly is not what I would like our government to do.

You make it sound like he's drawing this up by himself and likely to sneak in a small clause which puts a few billion in his back pocket

He's the figure head for sure but I'd almost guarentee there will be a LOT of people working on this to ensure its as safe and sensible as possible.
Marc Vaughan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 09:59 AM   #453
Marc Vaughan
SI Games
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
Quote:
A deal killer for the group: a proposal that would grant bankruptcy judges new powers to lower the principal, interest rate or both on a mortgage as part of a bankruptcy proceeding.
This is what I'm talking about. From the WSJ:

Out of interest in America do bankruptcy judges have the power to mitigate any other forms of debt? (ie. would this be out of the ordinary or are mortgages presently handled differently to other debts?).
Marc Vaughan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 10:26 AM   #454
Galaxy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
A deal killer for the group: a proposal that would grant bankruptcy judges new powers to lower the principal, interest rate or both on a mortgage as part of a bankruptcy proceeding.

That's a tough position, I think. What about consumers who are responsible enough to be able to pay their mortgages and those people are responsible enough to have good credit scores (paying their bills on time, which means better rates). A lot them are already pissed that the government is putting forward this bailout plan. However, the people who are in trouble are now in a position to go the bank and work out a plan, if they really wanted to. I'm not saying they'll get 1% to 2% interest rates, but they banks do not want these homes, so the borrowers have some leverage.

Last edited by Galaxy : 09-21-2008 at 10:26 AM.
Galaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 10:41 AM   #455
JPhillips
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan View Post
Out of interest in America do bankruptcy judges have the power to mitigate any other forms of debt? (ie. would this be out of the ordinary or are mortgages presently handled differently to other debts?).

I think this was something that was changed during the last bankruptcy bill.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers
JPhillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 10:42 AM   #456
JPhillips
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy View Post
That's a tough position, I think. What about consumers who are responsible enough to be able to pay their mortgages and those people are responsible enough to have good credit scores (paying their bills on time, which means better rates). A lot them are already pissed that the government is putting forward this bailout plan. However, the people who are in trouble are now in a position to go the bank and work out a plan, if they really wanted to. I'm not saying they'll get 1% to 2% interest rates, but they banks do not want these homes, so the borrowers have some leverage.

I guess I just see this a lot like the parable of the talents.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers
JPhillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 05:59 PM   #457
Galaxy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Paulson urges quick action on $700 billion bailout: Associated Press Business News - MSN Money

Looks like Dems want more control to be inserted into the bill (which I agree with-depending on what exactly it is).
Galaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 06:24 PM   #458
JPhillips
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
Oh hell no.

Quote:
The financial crisis that began in the United States spread to many corners of the globe. Now, the American bailout looks as if it is going global, too, a move that could raise its cost and intensify scrutiny by Congress and critics.

Foreign banks, which were initially excluded from the plan, lobbied successfully over the weekend to be able to sell the toxic American mortgage debt owned by their American units to the Treasury, getting the same treatment as United States banks.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers
JPhillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 06:45 PM   #459
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
wow
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL
Flasch186 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 10:31 PM   #460
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
welp, as of tonight we have no more 'major' investment banks as GS and MS change their status to become depositary banks as well.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL
Flasch186 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 11:40 PM   #461
cartman
Death Herald
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
Oh hell no.

One of the biggest beneficiaries of this is going to be UBS. Take a guess as to who is the vice chairman of UBS's US operations, and a registered lobbyist on behalf of UBS. That's right, Phil Gramm. Ugh.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan
'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand
So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent
So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint
cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2008, 11:51 PM   #462
path12
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
I've written to both my senators and congressman against this bill. Doubt it means much, but I at least feel better for having done it.
__________________
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
path12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 11:13 AM   #463
JPhillips
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
Get your piece of the bailout!

http://www.buymyshitpile.com/
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers
JPhillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 12:16 PM   #464
MikeVic
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hometown of Canada
What does this "no investment banks" mean? I have money in a mutual fund that tracks the financial sector heavily... I figured I'd get in when low, and it's bound to jump back up one day (although I've lost money on it so far). Do you think this news is bad for the financial sector?
MikeVic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 12:25 PM   #465
DaddyTorgo
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
i need to throw some money into a financial-sector ETF - I still think we have yet to hit bottom, but it's time for me to do my research and pick one out
DaddyTorgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 12:50 PM   #466
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
XLF is one of them but there are ones that are "ultra" with more beta to them.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL
Flasch186 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 12:57 PM   #467
DaddyTorgo
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
yeah - i need to do some assesment - look at some of the metrics

I don't know that high-beta is necessarily the way to go ATM -- with the sector so depressed, even a low-beta option would likely produce favorable returns medium-term, in fact in the medium-longer run it might even be more sensible.
DaddyTorgo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 01:23 PM   #468
sterlingice
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy View Post
Mark Cuban has an interesting view on the problem:

Stock Market Meltdowns - Why they will happen again and again and again « blog maverick

(BTW, his most recent two posts on defending Josh Howard is a good read).

He's 100% spot on about the risk and reward being decoupled if you're a CEO. The only thing that keeps these things in check are the moral restrictions of a person who's main purpose in life is to be the most powerful person in a large company. That's not a very good measure of checks and balances.

I don't know if his solutions are sound, tho. Haven't really thought about the plusses and minuses but it sounds reasonable.

SI
__________________
Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out!

Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!"
Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"



Last edited by sterlingice : 09-22-2008 at 01:24 PM.
sterlingice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 01:26 PM   #469
sterlingice
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy View Post
I would like to see the law pass allowing shareholders to vote on CEO/High-level Executive/Board member compensation packages for public companies.

I don't think that would do much. I'm sure the prospective executive/ceo/board member would just keep asking for different packages until they got what they wanted. I just don't think the average shareholder would pay enough attention.

It's like free agency for a team desperate for a new ace pitcher- they'll overpay because they want a change.

SI
__________________
Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out!

Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!"
Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"


sterlingice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 01:58 PM   #470
Mizzou B-ball fan
General Manager
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
I'm sure some have received this via e-mail, but I thought I'd post it for those who have not. Great stuff.........

Quote:
*I’m against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.*

Instead, I’m in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a */We Deserve It Dividend/*.

To make the math simple, let’s assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child.
So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.
My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a *We Deserve It Dividend*.

Of course, it would *NOT* be tax free. So let’s assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.
That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.
A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

*What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?*
*Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved.*
*Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads*
*Put away money for college – it’ll be there*
*Save in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs.*
*Buy a new car – create jobs*
*Invest in the market – capital drives growth*
*Pay for your parent’s medical insurance – health care improves*
*Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else*

*Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18_+ _*_including the folks_
who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company
that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we’re going to re-distribute wealth let’s really do it...instead of trickling out
a puny $1000.00 ( “vote buy” ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we’re going to do an $85 billion bailout, */let’s bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!/*

*As for AIG – liquidate it.*
Sell off its parts.
Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the real estate.
Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

*Here’s my rationale.* */We deserve it and AIG doesn’t./*

*Sure it’s a crazy idea that can “never work.”*

But can you imagine the */Coast-To-Coast Block Party/*!

How do you spell* Economic Boom?*

*I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion*
*/We Deserve It Dividend/* more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC .

And remember, The Birk plan only /really /costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned
instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

/Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest./
**
Kindest personal regards,
Birk
T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic
Mizzou B-ball fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 02:01 PM   #471
cartman
Death Herald
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
Wow, the math in that is embarrassingly bad.
__________________
Thinkin' of a master plan
'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand
So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent
So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint
cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 02:06 PM   #472
JPhillips
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
T.J Birkenmeier, A Guy that can't divide

85 billion / 200 million = 425
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers
JPhillips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 02:08 PM   #473
Mizzou B-ball fan
General Manager
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
T.J Birkenmeier, A Guy that can't divide

85 billion / 200 million = 425

I'm not sure how people can read that e-mail and still wonder why American citizens take on loans they can't afford.

Last edited by Mizzou B-ball fan : 09-22-2008 at 02:14 PM.
Mizzou B-ball fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 02:10 PM   #474
BrianD
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Appleton, WI
Quote:
Originally Posted by cartman View Post
Wow, the math in that is embarrassingly bad.

What...$425 doesn't equal $425,000? Are you sure? We could still have a nice block party with whatever is left from $425.
BrianD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 02:24 PM   #475
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
oil superspike today....nice timing.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL
Flasch186 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 02:26 PM   #476
Kodos
Resident Alien
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
* He sure likes the asterisk.
__________________
Author of The Bill Gates Challenge, as well as other groundbreaking dynasties.
Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 02:27 PM   #477
Galaxy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Oil is fricken up around $18/Barrel today! I guess it went ever higher earlier in the day.

Last edited by Galaxy : 09-22-2008 at 02:28 PM.
Galaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 02:31 PM   #478
Galaxy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
So, why do we allow Wall Street firms and investors to buy oil and gas that they don't even use?
Galaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 02:39 PM   #479
flere-imsaho
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
Ask the GOP Congress that passed the bill removing those restrictions a few years ago (when they still had control of Congress).

My guess is that they have friends on Wall Street who stood to make a lot of money on speculation.
flere-imsaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 02:41 PM   #480
Galaxy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
I used to be a big defender of the oil trading, but now I'm not. We're giving these companies $700 billion-$1 trillion, and now they do this shit? However, can you really stop it? Wouldn't it just push oil trading markets to another country's exchange?

Last edited by Galaxy : 09-22-2008 at 02:41 PM.
Galaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 03:06 PM   #481
Galaxy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Dems want pay limits, loan aid in bailout - U.S. business - MSNBC.com
Galaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 03:18 PM   #482
Mizzou B-ball fan
General Manager
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City, MO

I'm not too opposed to the proposals that Dodd put forward. My only problem is that this is the same man that let all of this crap happen under his watch as chairman. It may not have started under his watch, but he has had two years to put some band-aids on it and did nothing but accept lobby money to do just the opposite.
Mizzou B-ball fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 03:40 PM   #483
Flasch186
Coordinator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Jacksonville, FL
oh and new gov't guidelines on buying a new home, ready:

If you have an old home and planned on getting a renter for the old home you cant use that $ as income even if it covers the mortgage and then some. That is unless you have 75% LTV in the home. I get the idea behind it but talk about too little too late and actually now making things harder! Such a horrible implementation of tightening.
__________________
Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale

Putting a New Spin on Real Estate!



-----------------------------------------------------------

Commissioner of the USFL
USFL
Flasch186 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 03:59 PM   #484
Surtt
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy View Post
I used to be a big defender of the oil trading, but now I'm not. We're giving these companies $700 billion-$1 trillion, and now they do this shit? However, can you really stop it? Wouldn't it just push oil trading markets to another country's exchange?


Are we going to have to do another bailout when the commodities market bubble bursts?
__________________
“The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.”

United States Supreme Court Justice
Louis D. Brandeis
Surtt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2008, 04:24 PM   #485
Passacaglia
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Big Ten Country
My God. The bad math, of course. But -- why would the money be taxed? And you'd think "A Creative Guy" could come up with some possible negative ramifications of giving out 425K to everyone in the country.
Passacaglia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 01:10 PM   #486
Galaxy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Oil is down quite a bit.
Galaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 01:20 PM   #487
sterlingice
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
They were talking on NPR last night that yesterday's prices were arbitrarily high. Something about contracts being due for October crude and some traders getting caught trying to get lower prices and having to fill contracts. However, November prices were down around $110 like they are today.

SI
__________________
Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out!

Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!"
Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"


sterlingice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 01:41 PM   #488
flere-imsaho
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
I'm still not convinced by the calls to regulate CEO pay. I think CEO pay is often very out of line with the actual return the CEO provides the corporation, but regulating pay seems to me to be regulation "just to make people feel better."

If we're going to go that route, I'd rather see some regulation around this cross-pollenation of boards & CEOs (where CEO X sits on the board of CEO Y and vice versa). That's a situation ripe for abuse.
flere-imsaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 01:48 PM   #489
Galaxy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by flere-imsaho View Post
I'm still not convinced by the calls to regulate CEO pay. I think CEO pay is often very out of line with the actual return the CEO provides the corporation, but regulating pay seems to me to be regulation "just to make people feel better."

If we're going to go that route, I'd rather see some regulation around this cross-pollenation of boards & CEOs (where CEO X sits on the board of CEO Y and vice versa). That's a situation ripe for abuse.

What exactly are the details in how they will regulate pay? I don't mind allowing shareholders to vote on executive compensation packages. We need to move from a short-term to a long-term focus.
Galaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 02:20 PM   #490
Fidatelo
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB
The CEO pay thing is tough. I don't mind them getting paid oodles of money if they are truly great at what they do, and they are steering the company in the right direction for both short-term and long-term health.

The problem is, you can only really judge their performance in hind-sight. So do you withhold a bunch of pay until 5 years after they leave? If so, how the heck does that work? Or do you make them take a bunch of stock options that can only be sold several years after they leave? But then how is that fair if they do a great job but their successor screws it all up, or any number of outside factors mess up the share price down the road?

It's so easy to say that we need to incent them to think long-term, but, outside of somehow instilling morals in people, I don't know how you actually do it.
__________________
"Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime."
Fidatelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 02:20 PM   #491
Anthony
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Astoria, NY, USA
you do not, i repeat, do not want shareholders to vote for CEO's pay. s/h's, and i deal with shareholders for a living in my company, are concerned with increases in share price (i know, duh!, far out concept). s/h's are among the most fickle groups known to man. you'll basically have CEO's having to generate massive amounts of gains to appease the s/h's. you know short term gains, its that thinking that got us into trouble in the first place.

no, you first need to have a cap on CEO payouts, and you secondly need to have it based on the avg's of several years. anything else is basically putting the company back in the same place it was before.

ok, bye.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 03:25 PM   #492
DanGarion
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwest
I got this from Paulson via email today.

Quote:
Dear American:

I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.

I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.

I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.

This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.

Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to [email protected] so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.

Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulson
__________________
Los Angeles Dodgers
Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit!
DON'T REPORT ME BRO!
DanGarion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 03:34 PM   #493
Galaxy
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
What about changing the capital gains tax from one year to a longer time period?
Galaxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 04:34 PM   #494
Fighter of Foo
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boston, MA
This is super interesting IMHO...

HTTP Error 403

Blame Urban Planning

The credit crisis has led to numerous calls for bigger government. Yet the truth is that big government not only let the crisis happen, it caused it.
This truth is obscured by most accounts of the crisis. “I have a four-step view of the financial crisis,” says Paul Krugman. “1. The bursting of the housing bubble.”
William Kristol agrees. His account of the crisis begins, “A huge speculative housing bubble has collapsed.” “The root of the problem lies in this housing correction,” said Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson.
So it all started with the bubble. But what caused the bubble? The answer is clear: excessive land-use regulation. Yet while many talk about re-regulating banks and other financial firms, hardly anyone is talking about deregulating land.

The housing bubble was not universal. It almost exclusively struck states and regions that were heavily regulating land and housing. In fast-growing places with no such regulation, such as Dallas, Houston, and Raleigh, housing prices did not bubble and they are not declining today.
The key to making a housing bubble is to give cities control over development of rural areas — a step that is often called “growth-management planning.” If they have such control, they will restrict such development in the name of stopping “urban sprawl” — an imaginary problem — while their real goal is to keep development and its associated tax revenues within their borders. Once they have limited rural development, they will impose all sorts of conditions and fees on developers, often prolonging the permitting process by several years. This makes it impossible for developers to respond to increased housing demand by stepping up production.
In contrast, when cities do not have control of rural areas, developers can step outside the cities and buy land, subdivide it, and develop it as slowly or rapidly as necessary to respond to demand. The cities themselves respond by competing for development — in other words, by keeping regulation and impact fees low. The Houston metro area, for example, has been growing at 130,000 people per year, yet it was readily able to absorb another 100,000 Katrina evacuees with virtually no increase in housing prices.
Before 1960, virtually all housing in the United States was “affordable,” meaning that the median home prices in communities across the country were all about two times median-family incomes. But in the early 1960s, Hawaii and California passed laws allowing cities to regulate rural development. Oregon and Vermont followed in the 1970s. These states all experienced housing bubbles in the 1970s, with median prices reaching four times median-family incomes. Because they represented a small share of total U.S. housing, these bubbles did not cause a worldwide financial meltdown.
In the 1980s and 1990s, however, several more states passed laws mandating growth-management planning: Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Maryland, Rhode Island, and Washington. Massachusetts cities took advantage of that state’s weak form of county government to take control of the countryside. The Denver and Minneapolis-St. Paul metro areas adopted growth-management plans even without a state mandate. As a result, by 2000, prices of nearly half the housing in the nation were bubbling to four, six, and in some places ten times median-family incomes.
In the meantime, Congress gave the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) oversight authority over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. While this was supposedly aimed at protecting taxpayers, Congress knew that HUD’s main mission is to increase homeownership rates, and Congress specifically pressured HUD to increase homeownership among low income families. So HUD responded to the housing bubble by directing Fannie and Freddie to buy increasingly high percentages of mortgages made to low income families, eventually setting a floor of 56 percent. This led Fannie and Freddie to significantly increase their purchases of subprime mortgages, which legitimized the secondary market for such mortgages.
Though everyone knows that the deflation of the housing bubble is what caused the financial meltdown, few have associated the bubble itself with land-use regulation. Back in 2005, Paul Krugman observed that the bubble was caused by excessive land-use regulation. Yet nowhere in his current writings does he suggest that we deregulate land to prevent such bubbles from happening again. Such suggestions have come only from the Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation, and a few other think tanks.
We know that if the regulation is left in place, housing will bubble again — California and Hawaii housing has bubbled and crashed three times since the 1970s. We also know, from research by Harvard economist Edward Glaeser, that each successive bubble makes housing more unaffordable than ever before — and thus leaves the economy more vulnerable to the inevitable deflation. This is because when prices decline, they only fall about a third of their increase, relative to “normal” housing, before bottoming out.
Thus, median California housing was twice median family incomes in 1960, four times in 1980, five times in 1990, and eight times in 2006. In the next bubble, it will probably be at least ten times. This means homeownership rates will decline (as it has declined in California since 1960), small business formation (which relies on the equity in the business owners’ homes for capital) will decline, and education will decline (children of families that own their homes do better in school than children of families who rent).
Worse, more states are passing growth management laws. Tennessee passed a law in 1998, too late to get into the recent housing bubble but enough to participate in the next one. Legislators in Georgia, North Carolina, and other fast-growing states are being pressured to also pass such laws. Naturally, the planners who promote such laws deny that their actions have anything to do with housing prices.
Even worse, the Environmental Protection Agency has proposed to “integrate climate and land use” — effectively using global warming fears to impose nationwide growth management. Supposedly — though there is no evidence for it — people in denser communities emit fewer greenhouse gases, and growth management can be used to impose densities on Americans who would rather live on quarter-acre lots. The California legislature recently passed a law requiring cities to impose even tighter growth restrictions in order to reduce greenhouse gases — and its implementation will be judged on the restrictions, not on whether those restrictions actually reduce emissions.
Instead of such laws, states that have regulated their land and housing should deregulate them. Congress should treat land-use regulations as restrictions on interstate mobility, and deny federal housing and transportation funds to states that impose such rules. Otherwise, hard as it may be to imagine, the consequences of the next housing bubble will be even worse than this one.
Fighter of Foo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 04:58 PM   #495
Surtt
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I don't but it.

The cause of the bubble was loans given out to people that could not afford them.
The loans could have been for cars boats or elephants.
__________________
“The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.”

United States Supreme Court Justice
Louis D. Brandeis
Surtt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 05:05 PM   #496
Marc Vaughan
SI Games
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
I don't buy that either - yes housing regulation can cause price growth, but where I live in Florida the price growth was largely because of an influx of new people to the area and the timelag involved in building houses rather than regulations preventing them being built.

The big problem was excessive credit (mortgages) being given to people who couldn't afford them - fairly simplistic imho.

The future problem may be exactly the same but related to credit cards imho (as I've seen some horrifically scarey statistics in the last 6 months on credit card balance growth in America).
Marc Vaughan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 05:05 PM   #497
molson
General Manager
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
Ron Paul chimed in on CNN.com

Commentary: Bailouts will lead to rough economic ride - CNN.com

Spoiler

Last edited by molson : 09-23-2008 at 05:07 PM.
molson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 06:55 PM   #498
Buccaneer
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
Thanks molson, I was going to do that if you hadn't. Why the spoiler?
Buccaneer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2008, 06:58 PM   #499
molson
General Manager
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buccaneer View Post
Thanks molson, I was going to do that if you hadn't. Why the spoiler?

Just because it was so long.
molson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2008, 01:26 PM   #500
chesapeake
College Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan View Post
You make it sound like he's drawing this up by himself and likely to sneak in a small clause which puts a few billion in his back pocket

He's the figure head for sure but I'd almost guarentee there will be a LOT of people working on this to ensure its as safe and sensible as possible.

I need to vent, here. Directly from Paulson's proposal, I insert here the entirety of Section 8:

"Sec. 8. Review.
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are
non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be
reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

That is it. Under the Paulson plan, he is accountable to no one. So, to your point, Marc, since his decisions are not reviewable by a court of law, and his proposal allows him to buy and sell anything he wants at any price, Paulson could buy $750 billion in mortgage-backed securities, sell it to himself for a penny, and, under this proposal, there is no legal action possible.

That said, I do not believe he intends to do that; but it is absolutely ridiculous to write a law that would give someone that ability.

The only "accountability" under Paulson's proposal is to provide a report to Congress twice a year. In that regard, the report isn't required to include any specifics. The following text would comply fully with the legal requirement for the report to Congress: "Dear Congress: I spent all $750 billion. I complied with the law and, boy, did it sure help out a lot of folks. Smooches, H. Paulson."

The language proposed by the Administration is a joke. Not that I would expect anything else from this crew.

Last edited by chesapeake : 09-24-2008 at 01:26 PM.
chesapeake is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 AM.



Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.