Shooting at Connecticut School

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

Administration getting fired for being wrong....that's a funny ass joke.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of the superintendent and any local board members who fail to step up and insist on prompt action.

[DougW]

How much time will this kid have missed from school because of this investigation and suspension, when it's all said and done ?

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And that has already been assured in this case, so it's no longer an issue. It's a virtual non-story if they acted expediently afterwards, which is where they open themselves to criticism (and hopefully unemployment in the days to come).

Yeah, we'll agree to disagree. I'd say the first day back is expediently. You don't.

[Logan]

New Jersey Town Plans to Place Armed Guards in Schools | NBC New York

That's the town (and school system) I grew up in. My mother is still a 2nd grade teacher there.

[Buccaneer]

It dawned on me when I was walking through my office lobby today what the likely answer is - trained armed guards/police. I work in a small office building downtown and we have two armed guards - one on-duty police and one from a security company. The big downtown church has several on-duty police every Sunday patroling outside. Every sporting event and concerts I've been to had armed guards/police or any place that has a congregation of people. Why should schools be any different esp. when there could up to a couple thousand people in a small area? Imo, only those that are licensed, certified and trained should be armed to protect schools/offices/assemblies/etc.

[JPhillips]

The big problem is where does the money come from? States are cutting education spending and small private schools don't have a good avenue to raise the money.

My daughter's school has a total of about 250 students that pay @5000 per student. It would take at least two guards to cover everything during the day and at night, plus training, plus added insurance costs. Let's say that adds up to 150,000. That's over 10% of the tuition. They can't afford that.

[Buccaneer]

It would be impractical for every school but a lot of school districts already do this. It is a great deterrent, as shown when there are police on walking patrol on city blocks, let alone office buildings, I believe.

[cuervo72]

I agree on the money aspect. I don't think you can provide that for every school.

And this may be insensitive...but would the cost really justify it? I think someone threw around the figure of 5B or so to cover every school. Wouldn't it make much more sense to put that money toward oh, medical research? How many kids die each year from something like CF compared to school shootings?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

It would be impractical for every school but a lot of school districts already do this. It is a great deterrent, as shown when there are police on walking patrol on city blocks, let alone office buildings, I believe.

Really? Columbine had an armed guard even before the shooting there. As did the Clackamas mall.

It doesn't do jack to deter a motivated shooter.

[DougW]

And .. here we go. Time to $$CASH$$ in on the tragedy.

6 year old survivor .. "Jill Doe" heard "cursing, screaming, and shooting" over the school intercom when the gunman, 20-year-old Adam Lanza, opened fire. Jill has sustained emotional and psychological trauma and injury. Jills' parents say they had failed to provide a "safe school setting" or design "an effective student safety emergency response plan and protocol."

How to correct this ? .. Law suit of course, to the tune of $100 million vs. the state.

Full Feed

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by DougW

And .. here we go. Time to $$CASH$$ in on the tragedy.

6 year old survivor .. "Jill Doe" heard "cursing, screaming, and shooting" over the school intercom when the gunman, 20-year-old Adam Lanza, opened fire. Jill has sustained emotional and psychological trauma and injury. Jills' parents say they had failed to provide a "safe school setting" or design "an effective student safety emergency response plan and protocol."

How to correct this ? .. Law suit of course, to the tune of $100 million vs. the state.

Full Feed

Wow, the last child has barely been buried and this. How about being grateful you can hold your child when 20 other sets of parents will never have that joy again.

[DougW]

They didn't even wait for the funerals. They were talking to lawyers within a week.

Some.People.Suck.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Really? Columbine had an armed guard even before the shooting there. As did the Clackamas mall.

It doesn't do jack to deter a motivated shooter.

No, just like banning all guns will not deter a motivated killer. I do feel safer in my building against someone pulling a gun or committing a violent act, not someone going on a rampage which nothing can stop. And I do feel safer walking downtown with the visible presence of walking patrols (if they pay attention).

Lest I be accused of parrotting the NRA, I don't pay any attention to what they say, except I did hear that they proposed arming teachers, which is stupid imo.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by DougW

6 year old survivor .. "Jill Doe" heard "cursing, screaming, and shooting" over the school intercom when the gunman, 20-year-old Adam Lanza, opened fire. Jill has sustained emotional and psychological trauma and injury. Jills' parents say they had failed to provide a "safe school setting" or design "an effective student safety emergency response plan and protocol."

My prediction: Intercoms will be banned before guns.

[molson]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I agree on the money aspect. I don't think you can provide that for every school.

And this may be insensitive...but would the cost really justify it? I think someone threw around the figure of 5B or so to cover every school. Wouldn't it make much more sense to put that money toward oh, medical research? How many kids die each year from something like CF compared to school shootings?

The $5B number is misleading because it wouldn't be one central fund paying for everybody (if that was the case $5B would be a drop in the bucket). It's more a case-by-case thing for the schools to decide, and for them, it's the cost of one more employee. For some it might make sense (and many already use them), and for others, it might not.

I don't get the resistance to this. It seems a little inconsistent. People want to dramatically alter the gun landscape in this country, but hiring a guard, no, that's crazy talk and too expensive. I think maybe the gun debate is so emotional, and so important to people way beyond this incident that they're worried that any other proposed measures might silence the gun debate some. I don't think that'll happen though. Of course, nor will there be any dramatic changes in the gun landscape either. But, crime generally is going down. There's going to be these huge public debates over ultimately nothing, when it's changes in society and culture, not the idiots in Washington, that is making the country a safer place.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by molson

The $5B number is misleading because it wouldn't be one central fund paying for everybody (if that was the case $5B would be a drop in the bucket). It's more a case-by-case thing for the schools to decide, and for them, it's the cost of one more employee. For some it might make sense (and many already use them), and for others, it might not.

I don't get the resistance to this. It seems a little inconsistent. People want to dramatically alter the gun landscape in this country, but hiring a guard, no, that's crazy talk and too expensive. I think maybe the gun debate is so emotional, and so important to people way beyond this incident that they're worried that any other proposed measures might silence the gun debate some. I don't think that'll happen though. Of course, nor will there be any dramatic changes in the gun landscape either. But, crime generally is going down. There's going to be these huge public debates over ultimately nothing, when it's changes in society and culture, not the idiots in Washington, that is making the country a safer place.

Do we think one guard is legitimately going to stop this kind of stuff? I don't see it. From the outside, a person simply has to come in a different door or scout things well enough to know. From the inside, a student could easily get a guard first and then do what they want to do. Or in a worst case scenario, kids start grouping together to plan these things.

If an intruder has an assault rifle and a guard has just a basic weapon are those really favorable odds? Even at 50-50 odds I don't see the value in it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rowech

Do we think one guard is legitimately going to stop this kind of stuff?

I don't believe anyone (at least not anyone functional) thinks this legitimately eliminates the possibility of a shooting incident ... but that isn't the goal either.

The goal seems to be to delude ourselves into firming up the illusion of "safety". There's not a lot of interest -- and certainly a distinct lack of will -- to do anything that will substantially reduce the risks (whatever level those risks actually are).

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I'm actually for armed cops in schools... AND strict gun control.

Ask yourself... if your job is to keep the peace in a learning institution and you know someone may walk in and start shooting at you, what would you rather it be with?

This



Or this

[Buccaneer]

I think the intent is to deter 99% of the potential situations, not the 1% that only a team of SWATs can stop.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I think the intent is to deter 99% of the potential situations, not the 1% that only a team of SWATs can stop.

True. But making it as difficult as possible for 100% of persons who may have ill intentions to obtain weapons designed to kill a LOT of people can't be such a horrible idea.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Wow, the last child has barely been buried and this. How about being grateful you can hold your child when 20 other sets of parents will never have that joy again.

Not sure what the right number is but there should be some ongoing therapy subsidy for the kids to help them through this.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not sure what the right number is but there should be some ongoing therapy subsidy for the kids to help them through this.

No doubt at all about that, make sure all the families get as much assistance as they need, but just the fact that this family is looking to gain so much from the state really doesn't sit well with me.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by molson

It's more a case-by-case thing for the schools to decide, and for them, it's the cost of one more employee.

And in many of those cases, it's probably at the expense of another employee - a band teacher, an art teacher, a special ed assistant, etc.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The goal seems to be to delude ourselves into firming up the illusion of "safety".

Bingo.

[JonInMiddleGA]

FWIW, here's a longer version of the story making the rounds on the AP wire this morning.

Short version is that voters in Newtown rejected both a town budget & a school budget that had a roughly 5% tax increase overall, with much of the new money devoted to hiring additional school security, both armed & unarmed. The town budget was close (50.7% against), the school budget not so much (55-45 against).

[Buccaneer]

I've always wondered what the chances are something like this (or any notable acts of violence) would happen at the exact same place? I really believe, like many other acts, that it was a one-off - esp. in a place like Newtown. Unless a place has a culture of violence (like Chicago or Philly), the local people may feel it's not prudent to overcompensate. In other words, how many persons in Newtown are like the shooter? Acts like this, as well as terrorist acts, will happen again regularly but not in the same place.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I've always wondered what the chances are something like this (or any notable acts of violence) would happen at the exact same place? I really believe, like many other acts, that it was a one-off - esp. in a place like Newtown. Unless a place has a culture of violence (like Chicago or Philly), the local people may feel it's not prudent to overcompensate. In other words, how many persons in Newtown are like the shooter? Acts like this, as well as terrorist acts, will happen again regularly but not in the same place.

Or is it somewhat like lightning, that given the same conditions, the odds of a second strike in the same place are actually greater than the first occurrence?

edit to add: I'm not arguing that it is more likely, mostly just posing the question, probably rhetorically.

[BYU 14]

Tis also brings up an interesting question in my mind. Did this not pass because the shootings happened in that community? I.E some folks are still so traumatized (rightfully so) by the shootings that they don't want to go down the road of possibly putting guns in their schools?

Would the increase have passed or been voted down by a wider margin if the shootings were in a neighboring community and not Newtown?

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I think the location has something to do with it also. Connecticut would tend to lean more anti-gun, where some places in the country would vote to eliminate books and teachers just to flood the school with guns.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Worth noting - maybe - that this was the first time that Newtown had voted on the town budget and the school budget separately. That switch came after it took them 5 votes to get a budget approved last year.

[MrBug708]

One year ago. Still very horrible to think about

[Comey]

On FB, some of your friends may have "26" in their status. It is for today.

(This is just in case you weren't sure.)

[Lathum]

I know many of us here have little ones. Hug them a little tighter today.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I know many of us here have little ones. Hug them a little tighter today.

Great Reminder Lathum

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

After Newtown shooting, mourning parents enter into the lonely quiet - The Washington Post

[Kodos]

If you can read that article without tearing up...

[flere-imsaho]

I simply can't imagine that pain.

[Dutch]

Very sad.

“I’m always one minute farther away from my life with Daniel,” he had written one day. “The gulf keeps getting bigger.”

That line right there...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The part that caught my eye was where they were regretting holding back their kid for a year. The premise obviously being that if they had let him go to school a year earlier, he wouldn't have been in the classroom where most of the kids were killed.

[stevew]

Just read the bit about the Victor Cruz jersey again and almost lost it.

[digamma]

4 years ago today. Still remember getting home that night and feeling numb as I hugged my 2 year old. He's a first grader now and recently had his first lockdown drill. It's still chilling stuff. Thinking of Sandy Hook today.

[digamma]

Bumping again this year--it's a tough day.

[Toddzilla]

The day the gun debate in America ended

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

The day the gun debate in America ended

"End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it."

[digamma]

I hate this day, but it's important to remember.

[QuikSand]

+1

[BYU 14]

Nuts that this has been 6 years and we are no better off in addressing these tragedies. These events should not be forgotten as digamma said.

[Lathum]

Was just thinking of this as it came up on my timeline. It is unfathomable to me that we are in a worse place than we were when this happened.

It still makes my heart hurt thinking about what these families must go through every day.

[kingfc22]

This feels like an eternity ago yet in reality only 6 years have passed.

[molson]

There's people in the world that do stuff like this -

Sandy Hook School Students Sent Home After Receiving Threat on Shooting Anniversary - NBC Connecticut

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

There's people in the world that do stuff like this -

Sandy Hook School Students Sent Home After Receiving Threat on Shooting Anniversary - NBC Connecticut

It's a shockingly large percent of the population who believe in that hoax stuff.

I still can't fathom how you go on as a parent.