Super Bowl XLVI Thread - Giants Vs. Patriots

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

How would the last two minutes have played o8ut if the Giants didn;t have the two points from the safety?

Getting a safety on the first play plus two fumbles bouncing right into the hands of another Giant tells you that you are screwed on this night.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I remember reading an interview with Dan Reeves a while ago, and he basically conceded that he hadn't done some outlandish things simply because of peer pressure. You do stupid shit and it doesn't work, and you have a hard time finding a job again. If it works, you're a genius, etc.

Seems like there has been a lot more wild experimentation since Belicheck (he's done quite a bit)... but i'm still surprised there isn't more outside the box thinking.

Yeah it usually takes a guy like Belicheck that has success doing things different for change to come about. Indirectly I think a lot of these amazing passing stats come from the success the Pats have had doing it. I remember a game in 06 or 07 when the Vikings had a great run defense but couldnt stop the pass to save their life. The Pats come out in the first half and pass all but 1 down and jump out to a 30 point lead. He is just a fabulous coach. I kind of feel like he got outcoached tonight though surprisingly.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

congrats to the giants and their fans. this one hurts enough that when I come out of sedation tommorow that the pats won, is know it in my soul to be false. I have my homer concerns.. it sounded like michaels and collinsworth were giving a slow four hour blow job to eli and the giants, but in the end: 21-17.

I commented during the game-

If all NFL broadcasts were done by a booth team of Collinsworth and Simms, with Siragusa on the sideline, I'd be watching a shit load of Lifetime movies.

[molson]

I must admit though, as a Pats fan, the silver lining is Eli surpassing Peyton.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Senator

Well, his OC is K Gilbride, who coached with Buddy Ryan, who had a defensive play called The Polish Defense that purposefully put in 12 players, but usually on the goaline.

http://deadspin.com/5851460/buddy-ry...-was-the-point

Heh. I've even read that article before, too.

Oddly, I don't remember Buddy ever using that with the Eagles.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

it sounded like michaels and collinsworth were giving a slow four hour blow job to eli and the giants, but in the end: 21-17.

At least it was from a QB who played well versus being in the 4th quarter and Tebow is 4-13 for 34 yards.

[Kodos]

Congratulations, Giants. And thank you!

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

How would the last two minutes have played o8ut if the Giants didn;t have the two points from the safety?

How would the last two minutes have turned out if that pass interference call wasn't ignored? With games like this there are several points that lead to what ifs.

[MizzouRah]

Congratulations Giants fans.. and thank you.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Matthean

At least it was from a QB who played well versus being in the 4th quarter and Tebow is 4-13 for 34 yards.

Oh shit ya 100%. Eli is legit. Tebow is perhaps the worst starting QB in NFL history. No shame in losing to Manning and the Giants.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by molson

I must admit though, as a Pats fan, the silver lining is Eli surpassing Peyton.

In rings or as a QB are you talking?

I dont think this game puts Eli over Peyton as a QB. Peyton is/was so good and with how the Colts did without him this year you have to wonder how good them Colts teams he took the playoffs and won a super bowl with were.

[molson]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

In rings or as a QB are you talking?

I dont think this game puts Eli over Peyton as a QB. Peyton is/was so good and with how the Colts did without him this year you have to wonder how good them Colts teams he took the playoffs and won a super bowl with were.

Technically, just rings, I just personally like Eli a lot more than Peyton, so I'm glad he has that distinction. And he has plenty of time to surpass him in other categories and overall greatness as well. Peyon will ultimately be looked at as a disappointment in Indy, at least from the perspective of outsiders. You can't say the same about Eli in NY, even if he retired today.

[sabotai]

Big Ben has 2. Eli has 2. They are in the prime of their careers and could get a few more. Philip Rivers could get a few if San Diego ever gets a real head coach. And throw in Matt Schaub. Is it time to ramp up the discussion of the 2004 NFL Draft being the best QB class ahead of 1983?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by molson

Technically, just rings, I just personally like Eli a lot more than Peyton, so I'm glad he has that distinction. And he has plenty of time to surpass him in other categories and overall greatness as well. Peyon will ultimately be looked at as a disappointment in Indy, at least from the perspective of outsiders. You can't say the same about Eli in NY, even if he retired today.

I think their personalities are the real difference in them two quarterbacks. Peyton seems to be a perfectionist and doesnt adapt as well to change. Eli doesnt really seem to get terribly upset but sometimes gets a little too laid back especially early in games. As far as skill set there isnt a lot of difference.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Good stuff by the Giants, and now the HOF questions for Manning and Coughlin begin.

I think Coughlin is in and as long as Elis career stays on the same path the next 5-7 years he is a lock if he isn't in already.

FWIW I don't think this one win vaults him ahead of his brother.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Big Ben has 2. Eli has 2. They are in the prime of their careers and could get a few more. Philip Rivers could get a few if San Diego ever gets a real head coach. And throw in Matt Schaub. Is it time to ramp up the discussion of the 2004 NFL Draft being the best QB class ahead of 1983?

I love how with such a team game football is, we're still trying to measure QBs solely on rings

SI

[sterlingice]

Just now, a commercial on the local Indy station I'm watching: (paraphrasing) "Sunday, Sunday, Sunday! March 4th! At Lucas Oil Stadium! MONSTER TRUCK SHOW!"

Ah, Super Bowl. You can only come around once every 30 years...

SI

[ColtCrazy]

Interesting to see the comments about Peyton. Outsiders will say what they want about Peyton, but he's not a disappointment for a town that was dead to football before his arrival.

I'll also say this, Eli's Giants teams were much more complete teams than any team Manning ever had. Eli is clutch, but don't underestimate a solid defense that held the Pats to 17 points. Remember how we were calling Big Ben clutch after his comeback against the Cardinals. Would we consider him that now?

Hard to call Peyton a choker when his defenses seldom held opponents to under 20 points (He's lost 2 playoff games with scores under 20). I'd still trust Peyton with the ball, down 4, with 2:00 left just as I would Eli, or Brady for that matter. The best QB always comes down to your own perspective. Mine is Montana.

As for Eli, he definitely earned his elite status. He's right up there with Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rogers, etc.

[Lathum]

Call Coughlin what you want, but the guy is a class act all around

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I love how with such a team game football is, we're still trying to measure QBs solely on rings

SI

I wouldn't bring it up if they were putting up Trent Dilfer numbers but somehow winning SBs....

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I think their personalities are the real difference in them two quarterbacks. Peyton seems to be a perfectionist and doesnt adapt as well to change. Eli doesnt really seem to get terribly upset but sometimes gets a little too laid back especially early in games. As far as skill set there isnt a lot of difference.

For real? Eli has shown some great stuff as a QB, but can you really say he matches up with his brothers in pure skill?

[Big Fo]

Peyton is still better than Eli.

Eli is pretty darn good though.

I'm very happy to see the Patriots lose tonight.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by molson

Technically, just rings, I just personally like Eli a lot more than Peyton, so I'm glad he has that distinction. And he has plenty of time to surpass him in other categories and overall greatness as well. Peyon will ultimately be looked at as a disappointment in Indy, at least from the perspective of outsiders. You can't say the same about Eli in NY, even if he retired today.

I can't imagine that's the general perception of Peyton. My personal impression,a nd I feel like it's shared by a lot of people, is that he's been one of the greatest QBs of our generation. I mean he had how many 10+ winning seasons? Sure, some casual fans will measure things by rings. But he picked up one, taking him out of Marino territory. and if you can call yourself better than Marino in any fashion, I can't imagine anyone's going to call you a disappointment. That's some pretty insane expectations there.

[Autumn]

I unfortunately have not been able to watch any football this year, so I don't know if this was an off game for Brady, or if his shoulder was bothering him from that hit early on. But he was just off. Brady of old would have had that last drive, or the earlier one before the Giants' drive. He was throwing behind guys that were wide open. I love Brady, but you've got to put a lot of this loss on him. He didn't make the plays that he needed to. The Pats D didn't either, that's for sure. But Brady's made up for that in the past and he had every chance to tonight too. It hurts more seeing him lose it than seeing the rest of the team let him down.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

Interesting to see the comments about Peyton. Outsiders will say what they want about Peyton, but he's not a disappointment for a town that was dead to football before his arrival.

I'll also say this, Eli's Giants teams were much more complete teams than any team Manning ever had. Eli is clutch, but don't underestimate a solid defense that held the Pats to 17 points. Remember how we were calling Big Ben clutch after his comeback against the Cardinals. Would we consider him that now?

Hard to call Peyton a choker when his defenses seldom held opponents to under 20 points (He's lost 2 playoff games with scores under 20). I'd still trust Peyton with the ball, down 4, with 2:00 left just as I would Eli, or Brady for that matter. The best QB always comes down to your own perspective. Mine is Montana.

As for Eli, he definitely earned his elite status. He's right up there with Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rogers, etc.

Peyton tried to make this week all about him, but his little brother outshone him. I can't help but be amused by that, even as a Pats fan. And I think Colts management would have considered 1 Super Bowl a disappointment for the entire Peyton era, even the day they drafted him.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I can't imagine that's the general perception of Peyton. My personal impression,a nd I feel like it's shared by a lot of people, is that he's been one of the greatest QBs of our generation. I mean he had how many 10+ winning seasons? Sure, some casual fans will measure things by rings. But he picked up one, taking him out of Marino territory. and if you can call yourself better than Marino in any fashion, I can't imagine anyone's going to call you a disappointment. That's some pretty insane expectations there.

Well said.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Autumn

For real? Eli has shown some great stuff as a QB, but can you really say he matches up with his brothers in pure skill?

Peyton has a quicker release and focuses the entire game but as far as arm strength and accuracy I think they are very comparable. If you listen to other people you would say Peyton is probably the smarter of the two as well athough its hard to measure that especially with what Eli has done twice now.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I can't imagine that's the general perception of Peyton. My personal impression,a nd I feel like it's shared by a lot of people, is that he's been one of the greatest QBs of our generation. I mean he had how many 10+ winning seasons? Sure, some casual fans will measure things by rings. But he picked up one, taking him out of Marino territory. and if you can call yourself better than Marino in any fashion, I can't imagine anyone's going to call you a disappointment. That's some pretty insane expectations there.

It's not just "rings", it's the way they carry themselves in big games, and what they do with the talent around them. It's not quite a toss up yet, but it's close, and Eli has a ton of time left. The market size does matter some too. Eli has a smaller margin for error in NYC, but he also will/can be a bigger deal when he succeeds in that environment.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by molson

I must admit though, as a Pats fan, the silver lining is Eli surpassing Peyton.

Why is that a silver lining? Maybe it's because I live in central Indiana and hear so much Manning press all year long, but I can guarantee you that outside of the Giants lockerroom, there's no one in Indianapolis happier tonight than Peyton (except maybe Archie and Mrs. Manning, who's name I can never remember). The love he has for Eli and his desire to see his little brother succeed is palpable.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I unfortunately have not been able to watch any football this year, so I don't know if this was an off game for Brady, or if his shoulder was bothering him from that hit early on. But he was just off. Brady of old would have had that last drive, or the earlier one before the Giants' drive. He was throwing behind guys that were wide open. I love Brady, but you've got to put a lot of this loss on him. He didn't make the plays that he needed to. The Pats D didn't either, that's for sure. But Brady's made up for that in the past and he had every chance to tonight too. It hurts more seeing him lose it than seeing the rest of the team let him down.

Gisele!

[molson]

Originally Posted by Drake

Why is that a silver lining? Maybe it's because I live in central Indiana and hear so much Manning press all year long, but I can guarantee you that outside of the Giants lockerroom, there's no one in Indianapolis happier tonight than Peyton (except maybe Archie and Mrs. Manning, who's name I can never remember). The love he has for Eli and his desire to see his little brother succeed is palpable.

If Peyton felt that way, he'd hold back on his feud with Isray for a week and lay off on the Gatorade-sponsored ESPN special interviews.

[stevew]

I really hope that Peyton regains form. If only to knock Favre off of the record boards.

[kingfc22]

The play that I see being talked about the most is the Manningham catch; however, 90% of the credit on that play needs to go to Eli. Manningham gave Eli zero space to drop that one in and he did exactly that.

[ColtCrazy]

I don't get this knock that Peyton isn't a big game QB. Before the season, Peyton had a share of the 4th quarter TD pass record. Watch the 2006 AFC Championship to see him make an impressive comeback. Heck, he put the Colts in position to win his last playoff game until Caldwell's idiotic timeout gave the Jets a chance to win. I understand the pick in the Saints Super Bowl is out there, but I can't think of another playoff game where Peyton choked with a chance to win the game at the end. (And even that Saints game was a psychological let down between onside kick and Caldwell's decision to make 42 year old kick a 50 yarder in the rain)

I agree with Drake. Peyton doesn't care about legacies tonight. He's got to be extremely happy for Eli. Peyton got one. That's never a disappointment. Peyton was heaped with expectations far beyond that of Eli.

[larrymcg421]

I thought it was pretty awesome when Eli sacked Tom Brady on 3rd down at the end of the game there. His defense was a little off in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, but he really stepped it up when it counted most, just like when he completely shut down Randy Moss in his previous SB appearance.

[ColtCrazy]

Now, I personally think Eli is a eventual Hall of Famer, but I hate when announcers make these sweeping statements in the moment. Dilfer just mentioned how this cements his status as a Hall of Famer. Did they say this about Big Ben after his second Super Bowl?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I thought it was pretty awesome when Eli sacked Tom Brady on 3rd down at the end of the game there. His defense was a little off in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, but he really stepped it up when it counted most, just like when he completely shut down Randy Moss in his previous SB appearance.

you just keep fucking that chicken...

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

I don't get this knock that Peyton isn't a big game QB.

I dont know that this is being said is it?

I think its more of a compliment Eli time...

I think it can be said that both Manning brothers lived up to the incredible hype they had surrounding them. Not only that but they have done it with class.

[Matthean]

Any sort of lack of big game performance about Peyton started back in his college years. He could of/should of/would of won more rings if they Colts didn't put it in cruise control at the end of the season as soon as they could.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Lathum

you just keep fucking that chicken...

I clearly wasn't responding to you since you said that this win doesn't put him ahead of Peyton. My response, as it is every year after the Superbowl, is directed at the people who count rings when determining greatness and don't realize they sound just like Joe Morgan when he makes similarly idiotic comments about baseball.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by molson

If Peyton felt that way, he'd hold back on his feud with Isray for a week and lay off on the Gatorade-sponsored ESPN special interviews.

Hmm. Strangely enough, this has been the quietest week of Peyton news in central Indiana I can remember in the last decade. You know what? When he only does one interview or ends up on the evening news once in a week, that's way outside the norm. He is an enormous force in this community through his children's hospital and related charity work. Hell, our news covered the birth of his twins *and* their baptism.

If you just want to have a hate-on for Manning, that's cool. All I heard all week around here was what a douchebag/homewrecker/cheater Tom Brady is. I don't think that's a particularly accurate characterization, either...but I'm smart enough to think outside the media box.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I dont know that this is being said is it?

I think its more of a compliment Eli time...

I think it can be said that both Manning brothers lived up to the incredible hype they had surrounding them. Not only that but they have done it with class.

I do agree with that. Actually, I'm impressed by the class of nearly everyone I've heard tonight. Coughlin is quite classy as well.

[larrymcg421]

If you go back his college years, the same logic would lead you to state that Danny Wuerffel was better than Peyton Manning. He outplayed and beat Peyton Manning every time they faced, and he won a National Title. Is there anyone here willing to argue that Wuerffel should've been drafted higher than Manning?

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Drake

Hmm. Strangely enough, this has been the quietest week of Peyton news in central Indiana I can remember in the last decade.

Well, he made news today.

Peyton Manning flexible on deal demands, sources say - ESPN

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by molson

If Peyton felt that way, he'd hold back on his feud with Isray for a week and lay off on the Gatorade-sponsored ESPN special interviews.

Please. The media blew the Peyton-Irsay crap out of the water. Local media didn't play it up as much and if you look at Peyton's original statement, there's nothing really earth shattering to it. If anything, it was Irsay, who, while claiming that he keeps things in house, decided to air his displeasure with Peyton's comments even though all Peyton just said was how sad it was to see everyone gone (something that had just happened...not like he was waiting until Super Bowl week to do it).

Since then, little has been said about him or anything else. Peyton isn't a glory hound like Favre.

[stevew]

I thought that Tuck would have gotten credit for a sack for forcing intentional grounding? I suppose that's not the call. The QB is always going to win the MVP if he plays really good, but Tuck had 2 sacks plus forced that safety. I wonder if he got any MVP votes.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Well, he made news today.

Peyton Manning flexible on deal demands, sources say - ESPN

"Sources say" Article doesn't contain a direct Peyton quote and is written by Schefter, who is notorious for rumor mongering. If the Super Bowl hadn't been in Indy, most of this stuff isn't even written. Again, this isn't on Peyton.

On another note, seeing a humble Justin Tuck is cool. Guy is a stud.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by molson

If Peyton felt that way, he'd hold back on his feud with Isray for a week and lay off on the Gatorade-sponsored ESPN special interviews.

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? You really think it was realistic for Peyton Manning to stay out of the news when the Superbowl is Indianapolis AND his brother his playing AND there's been a season long ongoing news story about his future?

Your bizarre obsessive hatred of Peyton here is pretty funny to watch, although admittedly not as entertaining as your bitchfest against the 72 Dolphins a few years ago.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Drake

(except maybe Archie and Mrs. Manning, who's name I can never remember).

Olivia

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

If you go back his college years, the same logic would lead you to state that Danny Wuerffel was better than Peyton Manning. He outplayed and beat Peyton Manning every time they faced, and he won a National Title. Is there anyone here willing to argue that Wuerffel should've been drafted higher than Manning?

I dont think many are saying Eli is better. I think they are getting at they are comparable not simply because of tonight but because since 09 Eli has been an elite qb whos improvement has been under the radar for the most part.

In some of these earlier playoff threads people were still debating on whether or not Eli was a top 5 qb. I really think after these 4 playoff games there shouldnt be much of a debate anymore.