POTUS 2016 General Election Discussion Thread

[Julio Riddols]

The main thing I am worried about is world perception of this. Our country is fractured maybe more than it ever has been. We look weak and out of control.

Trump won because Clinton is that unlikable, and perhaps it should be no surprise.. The democratic party fucked this one up really, really bad.

Part of me is glad to see such a shocking result, because it means there is something different about the U.S. now in the way that people get elected.. I'm just not sure that it is a good different.

[Edward64]

Short of a nuclear war and depression, the historian wannabee in me says this will be a very interesting 4 years. I kinda look forward to living through it

[Noop]

So now we will have a conservative Supreme Court given that Trump could realistically appoint 2-3 Justices. To a majority of Trump supporters they likely don't care about any amendment but the second, however the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendment could forever be changed depending on who is appointed to the Supreme Court.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

The main thing I am worried about is world perception of this.

One thought that occurred to this Canadian upon waking up: who knew American white men were more misogynistic than they are racist?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Does Trump himself have any idea what policies he intends to implement? Off the top of my head, he has put forth multiple (and often-contradicting) positions on immigrant, the Muslim ban, abortion, going after the families of terrorists, and the minimum wage. I tend to suspect that Mike Pence and/or Paul Ryan (or the next Speaker, if that happens) will be among the most powerful to hold his position, because they'll be the one(s) actually setting the agenda.

Like I said before, he's just going to sign whatever comes across his desk and then take credit for it. He'll have a couple high profile bills, but if the rumors are true, he promised Pence that legislation will be up to him.

[PilotMan]

Does the failure here ultimately fall on Millennials? Their failure to be "inspired" kept them home. As someone on CNBC this morning said, "not voting is no way to win an election."

[panerd]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Does the failure here ultimately fall on Millennials? Their failure to be "inspired" kept them home. As someone on CNBC this morning said, "not voting is no way to win an election."

I mean I don't know that even a large chunk of Sanders' supporters stayed home but in some of those states it would only take really tiny amounts to swing the election. I know I am the resident grumpy third party guy on here sometimes but they got 3-4% in most states which was way over the margin of victory. I have never figured out who they are "stealing" votes from but its interesting.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

or Paul Ryan (or the next Speaker, if that happens)

I'd hope removing him is among the first few things on the priority list frankly.

He, along with a lot of establishment hacks, are every bit as repudiated by the result as HRC.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Does the failure here ultimately fall on Millennials? Their failure to be "inspired" kept them home. As someone on CNBC this morning said, "not voting is no way to win an election."

I don't think you'll see a massive downturn in their numbers (though I haven't seen anything on the except for their percentages so far).

Whatever the case, I don't think it could be pinned to them alone. Anecdotal numbers suggest HRC took a major slide with black voters (turnout, not percentage) and I'd say we might see a record-setting turnout by white evangelicals.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by panerd

I mean I don't know that even a large chunk of Sanders' supporters stayed home but in some of those states it would only take really tiny amounts to swing the election. I know I am the resident grumpy third party guy on here sometimes but they got 3-4% in most states which was way over the margin of victory. I have never figured out who they are "stealing" votes from but its interesting.

I don't think that the third parties here kept this one from being in Trump's pocket. The numbers just don't bear it out. It's not a return of Nader or Perot.

As the numbers are revealed in the coming days some group is going to stand out as the party responsible. I just wan to know the who and why of it.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

I don't think that the third parties here kept this one from being in Trump's pocket. The numbers just don't bear it out. It's not a return of Nader or Perot.

As the numbers are revealed in the coming days some group is going to stand out as the party responsible. I just wan to know the who and why of it.

I wasn't crediting Johnson or Stein. I was pointing out they were 2-3% higher than 2012 and my guess is 1-2% of Democrats stayed home as well due to Sanders. That seems like election swaying numbers.

It's been said a few times in this thread already I think the police shooting thing is going to be big. Hillary ran her convention mistakenly against the police and I think most Americans disagree strongly with that. Just like their congressman their local police are good, the bad ones are in other places. (I don't really agree with that but think that is a mentality that exists)

[bob]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

One thought that occurred to this Canadian upon waking up: who knew American white men were more misogynistic than they are racist?

Alternatively, who knew that demonizing American white men would result in them voting in droves against you.

[Butter]

Baby Boomers are responsible. They have been talking about the country going to hell for years. They are the ones that live in the red areas and the rural areas that turned out in absolutely huge numbers. They are the ones that have felt the country slipping away from them, as life slips away from them also, tbh. They are the ones watching Fox News for 20 years and hearing about how crooked Hillary supposedly is before Crooked Hillary was a term.

This is their last stand. Their numbers are dwindling and hey, give them credit they did something about it. They took power back, such as it is.

[Butter]

Looks like Hillary has finally taken the popular vote lead. This is the 2nd election of the last 5 where the popular vote and electoral college won't match.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Butter

Baby Boomers are responsible. They have been talking about the country going to hell for years. They are the ones that live in the red areas and the rural areas that turned out in absolutely huge numbers. They are the ones that have felt the country slipping away from them, as life slips away from them also, tbh. They are the ones watching Fox News for 20 years and hearing about how crooked Hillary supposedly is before Crooked Hillary was a term.

This is their last stand. Their numbers are dwindling and hey, give them credit they did something about it. They took power back, such as it is.

Man, Gen X might as well be the lost generation. We just keep getting fucked by these big demos that surround us. Our opportunity has passed us by, it'll be the Millennials that take the reigns from here on out. We're just yesterday's trash at this point.

[Butter]

Don't know what people thought of the coverage last night. I was mostly on MSNBC, because I wasn't ever watching Fox News, and CNN just gets on my nerves lately, mostly their panel.

Sounds like I missed a guy crying over there. I might've watched some FOX broadcast network, because I do like Shepard Smith, but I couldn't stand seeing any Karl Rove.

I landed on ABC a couple of times, and it seemed like they literally had 20 commentators on set. That was just too much.

Landed on CBS a couple of times. They seemed to have a pretty good interactive election wall, but at one point I heard Gayle King ask "was that expected?" after some state like Arkansas or Oklahoma was declared for Trump. I was out after that, as she clearly had no business being there.

MSNBC had some good commentators on. Steve Schmidt was really really good on there, and I always enjoy James Carville and his neurotic-ness. Michael Steele was pretty much a blank, but they had a couple of ladies on there that were giving some good insight from the right. They also had a pretty good interactive election graphic, except for the time it said "Romney" at the top in place of Trump. I also found their cheerleading to be fairly uninvasive, and even Chris Matthews was being pretty contemplative and critical rather than jeering. Maddow was insufferable as she usually is, but if you looked past that thought they had a good broadcast.

[RainMaker]

I like CNN mainly for John King who really breaks down the map well. I think I muted it most of the time he wasn't talking. The problem was that Wolf Blitzer interrupted him a million times. I mentioned it last night and thought maybe I was over-reacting, but apparently some people have written articles about it.

Wolf Blitzer interrupts John King at CNN Magic Wall During Election Night

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Butter

Baby Boomers are responsible. They have been talking about the country going to hell for years. They are the ones that live in the red areas and the rural areas that turned out in absolutely huge numbers. They are the ones that have felt the country slipping away from them, as life slips away from them also, tbh. They are the ones watching Fox News for 20 years and hearing about how crooked Hillary supposedly is before Crooked Hillary was a term.

This is their last stand. Their numbers are dwindling and hey, give them credit they did something about it. They took power back, such as it is.

They didn't turn out in huge numbers though. Trump will end up with less votes than Romney, McCain and Bush in 2004.

The story is that 7 million people who voted for Obama in 2012 didn't show up to vote for Clinton in 2016. She's a garbage candidate who people didn't want to go out and vote for.

[Kodos]

Yep. Running the candidate with the second-highest disapproval rating was not a good choice, in retrospect. Joe Biden might have brought a different result.

I hope the next Democrat that runs for Prez isn't carrying so much baggage.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I like CNN mainly for John King who really breaks down the map well. I think I muted it most of the time he wasn't talking. The problem was that Wolf Blitzer interrupted him a million times. I mentioned it last night and thought maybe I was over-reacting, but apparently some people have written articles about it.

Wolf Blitzer interrupts John King at CNN Magic Wall During Election Night

I watched CNN before I turned over to PBS at the end of the night. CNN was alright, but they were nervous as hell. Van Jones was very passionate. He was the press sec for Obama before he was fired, but he was still a big supporter and he's always been a big supporting voice of black America. So him being emotional was understandable. His group probably has the most to lose in this.

PBS was very good. They were very calm and practical. They had a strong panel and nobody was really losing their shit on there.

The Blitzer/King issues were that Blitzer had a producer yelling in his ear, while King was just up there doing his thing. Someone had to be in charge, but it came off poorly for the most part.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Does the failure here ultimately fall on Millennials? Their failure to be "inspired" kept them home. As someone on CNBC this morning said, "not voting is no way to win an election."

There are a LOT of reasons the democrats didn't do well last night. My top two.

1 - The candidate was terrible. This isn't me talking after the fact. She was truly a candidate that people didn't like. She pissed off minorities "super predator". She was against gay marriage. She lied repeatedly, even when evidence of those lies was there for the world to see. (She continued the "FBI said I did nothing wrong" garbage which even had CNN and MSNBC telling her to shut up. Then she apologized.

2 - The pure venom of the people when trying to have a discussion of the issues. I used to like a good debate. Now? It's usually a horrible experience. Have a discussion on immigration and you are a racist if you even attempt to say we need better control of our borders. This isn't the FAR left doing this like it used to be. This isn't from 20 year old naive college kids. This used to be the outer reaches of either party who would use verbiage like "Hitler" "Racist" "Facist" "Socialist" Now it's a standard part of the dialogue from both sides.

You know what happens when you make those insults? You harden their beliefs. People ONLY talk to other people who have the same views. You just back right the hell out of any normal conversation OR you attack with the same verbiage and embolden the other side. Enough is enough people.

[QuikSand]

I'm still hanging Blitzer out to dry, he was awful. They couldn't get out of their own way, insisting on talking about the most pointless crap while there was interesting stuff to actually discuss.

KING: Let's take a look at what hasn't yet reported in Virginia, which is looking close right now...
BLITZER: No, I want to go to the total electoral votes, where we are now calling Alabama for Trump, what does that mean for the race tonight?
KING:

[Butter]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They didn't turn out in huge numbers though. Trump will end up with less votes than Romney, McCain and Bush in 2004.

The story is that 7 million people who voted for Obama in 2012 didn't show up to vote for Clinton in 2016. She's a garbage candidate who people didn't want to go out and vote for.

I guess rather than saying "turning out in huge numbers" what I mean is "voting in huge numbers" for Trump, whereas Obama was more successful in winning more of that vote.

[Butter]

Recreational marijuana now legal in California, Massachusetts, and Nevada in addition to being already legal in Washington, Colorado, Oregon, Alaska, and DC.

How much longer until this becomes nationwide, or is this on the Trump agenda to eliminate?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

I was flipping around the different channels last night, and was really surprised at how somber things seemed at Fox News. I was expecting cartwheels and shit eating grins, but (at least when I was watching) it seemed like they were covering a funeral. Maybe because Megyn Kelly was running things? Maybe Fox News, facing red control in the house, senate, and white house, is facing an existential crisis as an anti-establishment outlet.

I think because they had already hedged their bets. They were like the person who owns stock in a company, but has gone in big on options and just realized that they were going to lose a lot of money on their option play, but at least they could own the stock in the end.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

One thought that occurred to this Canadian upon waking up: who knew American white men were more misogynistic than they are racist?

Casual sexism is much more tolerated in the U.S. than casual racism. (Edit: Hell, I think casual homophobia is close being less accepted than casual sexism. Racial slurs and gay slurs will cause you more problems in most places than sexist slurs will)

I think that was just a secondary issue in this election though.

[JPhillips]

So we're back to blaming the ultra-powerful left for everything the right does.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

So we're back to blaming the ultra-powerful left for everything the right does.

No, they're just acting "against their self-interest" (to use a condescending term that the left often throws at the poor rural right).

Edit: I mean, are you not humbled yet? Can you not admit that maybe the Dems have done more than a few things wrong to get to this point?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

I was flipping around the different channels last night, and was really surprised at how somber things seemed at Fox News. I was expecting cartwheels and shit eating grins, but (at least when I was watching) it seemed like they were covering a funeral. Maybe because Megyn Kelly was running things? Maybe Fox News, facing red control in the house, senate, and white house, is facing an existential crisis as an anti-establishment outlet.

We channel-surfed as well, and my wife and I both agreed that the Fox coverage seemed...flat. But I think there's a different reason it seemed that way: for whatever reason, they had an astonishing lack of (I think this is the word) "production" to go along with the broadcast. Far fewer on-screen graphics. Little/no music when they made transitions. Little/no camera movement. It was heavily tilted toward a camera pointed straight at someone's face, and that person talking directly into it.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Butter

I guess rather than saying "turning out in huge numbers" what I mean is "voting in huge numbers" for Trump, whereas Obama was more successful in winning more of that vote.

Trump also won because he benefitted from the campaigns of senators fighting for their seats (Toomey in Pennsylvania, Johnson in Wisconsin, and Ayotte in New Hampshire)

[Butter]

Originally Posted by molson

No, they're just acting "against their self-interest" (to use a condescending term that the left often throws at the poor rural right).

Edit: I mean, are you not humbled yet? Can you not admit that maybe the Dems have done more than a few things wrong to get to this point?

If you think about it, upper middle-class Dems who vote Dem are also voting against their self-interest, it's just the story is that one group is doing it knowingly while the other is being "duped".

Trump sold a different kind of hope in this election, a "turn back the clock" kind of hope that I think is going to fall flat on its face. But we'll see.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by molson

I was wondering if people are holding back their panic here some. I've argued against liberals here for 10+ years and I feel like I'm the only one really worried. I'm breaking out the fire pit in the backyard, drinking scotch, contacting friends I haven't seen in a while, contemplating my personal financial status with an eye towards being more conservative, wondering what will happen if my girlfriend loses her job, etc. While a small part of me is intrigued to see what happens next.

Originally Posted by Drake

Why would we panic? We're (mostly) white guys. Even when we vote against our self-interest, we still win.

I'm not quite panicked, but I'm at the least concerned. I've worked a gov't contract job for the past 17 years, and have seen budgets choked, teams atrophied, and on the Fed side positions go unfilled. Found out a few weeks ago that I'd be dropped from my contract due to some shifting. My work will probably be split in two places, but there's no guarantee that I will be picked up for either half of my duties (still up in the air if they'll even be supported).

Now we face a R sweep? Yeah, that bodes well for not seeing budgets slashed even further, here or at any of the other agencies. Or that other employers aren't going to put a hold on hiring due to uncertainty.

Maybe I should hone my pickaxe skills.

[Ben E Lou]

Not sure if it has been said, but I think JIMGA, tarcone, and MBBF deserve a bit of praise. Y'all really had every right to have been insufferable jackasses last night, and you weren't. {tips hat}

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Not sure if it has been said, but I think JIMGA, tarcone, and MBBF deserve a bit of praise. Y'all really had every right to have been insufferable jackasses last night, and you weren't.

Agreed.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I like CNN mainly for John King who really breaks down the map well. I think I muted it most of the time he wasn't talking. The problem was that Wolf Blitzer interrupted him a million times. I mentioned it last night and thought maybe I was over-reacting, but apparently some people have written articles about it.

Wolf Blitzer interrupts John King at CNN Magic Wall During Election Night

Yeah, King and his map is one of the reasons I wanted to watch on CNN last night, but I yielded to my son and watched Fox, who couldn't stop joking about their stupid "Shandy" (digital "chandelier") and Hume checking his phone to see the updated betting markets.

[Logan]

Markets opened up a bit, went down a bit, and are still green 20 mins in.

[Dutch]

So I voted for Trump in the end. It wasn't because I really like the guy, obviously he's said some nasty things, but it's not like I'll ever hang out with him, so does it really matter? I don't think so. I was motivated to see a change. I hope he can improve the economy. A growing economy helps everybody. And the economy is generally faceless, we will all benefit or suffer together. It's as simple as that for me.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

No, they're just acting "against their self-interest" (to use a condescending term that the left often throws at the poor rural right).

Edit: I mean, are you not humbled yet? Can you not admit that maybe the Dems have done more than a few things wrong to get to this point?

Jesus, I've been screaming that the Dems don't stand for anything for years. Of course they take blame for Hillary losing.

My critique is about extending that blame to whatever Donald does or will do. That's where he and his supporters take the blame. Nobody argues that increased Obamacare premiums are the fault of an arrogant right.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I hope the next Democrat that runs for Prez isn't carrying so much baggage.

Wouldn't that Democrat be one of those horrific lab experiments that we criticized the Nazis for?

[panerd]

Just think guys in 2020 we get another Trump campaign for president as well!

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Short of a nuclear war and depression, the historian wannabee in me says this will be a very interesting 4 years. I kinda look forward to living through it

Let's hope we all do live through it...

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Well remember JIMGA (and Tarcone I think) were polling to not vote for either candidate until the very end, so I think its not like "YES my favorite candidate just won!" and more like "well let's hope this jagoff doesn't let us down". I'm sure for many Trump voters across the country, this isn't a victory so much as just another grey weekday.

It's not a celebration for me either. Voters HAD to choose between Trump and Clinton. There are people that are very passionate about Trump. That's not me, but I knew that he was my only choice other than to abstain...and when I got to the polling booth...what's the point of going AND abstaining? I wanted to be a part of the process.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by panerd

Just think guys in 2020 we get another Trump campaign for president as well!

The Dems will put up token opposition. With Trump taking 95% of the black vote, he'll be unbeatable.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Not sure if it has been said, but I think JIMGA, tarcone, and MBBF deserve a bit of praise. Y'all really had every right to have been insufferable jackasses last night, and you weren't. {tips hat}

That was my first reaction when I read the results a few minutes ago. A lot of people gave Mr. Tarcone crap in this thread a week(?) ago with their condescending posts and should apologize. I apologize to Mr. Tarcone for not taking your views of electability and turnout seriously.

[Buccaneer]

All along, the only result I wanted was a split Executive and Legislative. That did not happen.

Now I hope that Congress can moderate against any power-plays Executive might pull (I would say the same thing even if it was split).

[ISiddiqui]

I am gutted. I put my heart and soul into this candidate. To paraphrase JIMG from the early 2000s, this candidate was the closest candidate to holding my views that I've ever experienced. And the polls were wrong. Dramatically so. So there is the shock of, say, the undefeated New England Patriots losing to the New York Giants with immense, immense grief. And I'm scared of what is to come. My family are Muslims. I have friends who are black who are scared to death of what's next to come.

Trump was able to find those voters in the upper Midwest that probably not even he thought would vote for him. But I'm still in grief and shock and can't really process it right now.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I am gutted. I put my heart and soul into this candidate. To paraphrase JIMG from the early 2000s, this candidate was the closest candidate to holding my views that I've ever experienced. And the polls were wrong. Dramatically so. So there is the shock of, say, the undefeated New England Patriots losing to the New York Giants with immense, immense grief. And I'm scared of what is to come. My family are Muslims. I have friends who are black who are scared to death of what's next to come.

Trump was able to find those voters in the upper Midwest that probably not even he thought would vote for him. But I'm still in grief and shock and can't really process it right now.

Imran, you have professed belief in God. Put your faith in Him and not in men/women. Remember what Paul wrote to his disciple Timothy, "“I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.”"

[Young Drachma]

What's the under/over on faithless electors next month?

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I am gutted. I put my heart and soul into this candidate. To paraphrase JIMG from the early 2000s, this candidate was the closest candidate to holding my views that I've ever experienced. And the polls were wrong. Dramatically so. So there is the shock of, say, the undefeated New England Patriots losing to the New York Giants with immense, immense grief. And I'm scared of what is to come. My family are Muslims. I have friends who are black who are scared to death of what's next to come.

Trump was able to find those voters in the upper Midwest that probably not even he thought would vote for him. But I'm still in grief and shock and can't really process it right now.

These are extreme emotional responses after a shocking upset. I remember left-wingers saying white people were going to assassinate Barack Obama too. It's just fear-mongering. Please tell your friends to just relax. It's unrealistic to be scared to death because your party didn't win an election.

[Arles]

I think a few things happened here. First, the media completely terrified house/senate candidates in Ohio, Florida and Pennsylvania. For the past two months, they have been told that Trump didn't have a chance and that congressional candidates would get caught in the crossfire. So, they put a massive ground effort to get out the vote to save their ass. I read that one of the republican candidates in Ohio ended up visiting millions of houses through his volunteers. Second, to go along with this, the left felt like this election was in the bag. Hillary was up 7-10 points and might even win states like North Carolina and Georgia (in additional to Florida and Ohio). If I got a nickel for every pundit who said Trump needed "an inside straight" to win 270 over the past week, I could retire. That had to supress some of the democratic vote who weren't enchanted by Hillary (esp young people).

Finally, I think democrats need to understand the main demographic lesson on election day:

White men over the age of 40 will come out in droves to vote against a candidate they loathe.
Young people will only vote when they feel inspired by the candidate on their side.

Young people just weren't that jazzed by Hillary and decided not to vote. It's hard for the democrats to win when they run out the "old veteran who deserves a turn" (a la Gore, Kerry, Hillary, ..). They need a candidate who inspires the young vote (like Bill and Obama did). Now, as the current younger people in their 20s get older, I think the voting block will shift a little more left (esp on social issues). But, there's also a chance that as young people get more money and careers, they shift republican as well. Either way, democrats need to look for a candidate that inspires in 2020 - not just who's "next in line".