NFL Week 1 Discussion Thread - Revis signs, HBO rejoices

[Butter]

Nice to see the Pats fans were on here burying the Bengals season.

I'm not trying to say they looked good despite the loss, or even that I thought it was fine, BUT I did have that game chalked up as a loss. Plus, you add to that that the Bengals had several slow starts last year, so I was not surprised that they came out flat and the Pats looked great. You would just think that the Bengals would realize that if you come out flat against a team of the Pats caliber, that they will step on your throat and break your neck, which is what they did.

Nice game by the Pats, but the Bengals are not done, Palmer is not through, and TO and CO are not about to blow-up. The Bengals lost to a better team on the road.

Whoopty-doo. The Pats did their job, let's have a ticker-tape parade.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by Shkspr

Acquiring a disgruntled big name player who wants to get paid big $$$ - when has that ever blown up in the Redskins' face?

or just keep throwing fades to anthony armstrong. he'll catch one eventually.

in other news pft saying bob sanders is done for the season.

[Alan T]

I finally got to see parts of the Falcons game. Upset in how it ended. I know that it is tough to play on the road in Pittsburgh, and they have a good defense and all. The Falcons really need to score more points than that though. If the offense is supposed to carry this team, you have to put the points on the board to win against the tougher teams too (especially the ones missing their starting QB).

[Logan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Here's what I don't get. If a player dives for the end zone with the ball while carrying it, the minute it crosses the plane, it's a TD, correct?

So why all the "process" drama over a catch? Why are the two different?

The player has already established possession (for 1 yard or 99) in your example, but in Megatron's case, he was in the act of establishing possession. Two completely different situations, completely different rules.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

in other news pft saying bob sanders is done for the season.

Don;t know whether I should laugh or cry

[Suburban Rhythm]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet...

During Steelers-Falcons, Tony Gonzalez reaches 1,000 career catches, but it took FOREVER.

1st quarter, first ATL drive he has a catch overturned on a penalty (false start I believe). Another pass in the 1st at his feet.

3rd quarter, he makes the catch, all the fanfare from the announcers...until the flag comes out, he stepped out of bounds prior to making the catch, again nullified. Another pass out of his reach.

Finally, makes a 20 yard grab for #1,000

[DataKing]

I haven't read the thread up to this point, but I'm sure there's been plenty of discussion regarding Megatron's non-catch during the Bears/Lions game. My two cents (and remember this is coming from a Bears fan): the Lions got robbed. I hope the rules committee takes a look at this next off-season.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

Roy Williams sux, anybody?

Even if the play had stood, yeah, he sucks. Bad. The Redskins blew a coverage and he still needed about 10 seconds to get open on the final play. On the positive side, he did catch the ball, which is a bonus.

I agree with Michael Irvin about once ever decade. When he said last week that everytime Williams was on the field the Cowboys were playing 10 on 11 was my once a decade moment.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

gotta love espn. 'turn away if you're queasy.' then proceed to show leonard weavers knee getting blown up on a loop for the next 4 hours.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by DataKing

I haven't read the thread up to this point, but I'm sure there's been plenty of discussion regarding Megatron's non-catch during the Bears/Lions game. My two cents (and remember this is coming from a Bears fan): the Lions got robbed. I hope the rules committee takes a look at this next off-season.

Like I said in my earlier comment, if that isn't a catch, the rule that makes it a non catch needs to be changed. He catches the ball, lands two feet and his ass while clearly controlling the ball. He spins over and it comes out when he puts his hand on the ground. The fact the brain dead refs missed the obvious PI call on him the very next play just makes the situation worse.

If we are on the sandlot and someone makes a catch like that and a defensive player says incomplete pass, he'd get punched in the nuts. The NFL needs to revise this rule.

[Kodos]

Beautiful ending to the Cowboys game.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Here's what I don't get. If a player dives for the end zone with the ball while carrying it, the minute it crosses the plane, it's a TD, correct?

So why all the "process" drama over a catch? Why are the two different?

Umm, because one is a run and one is a pass? different plays, different rules.

The players know the rules, if you can't follow them you shouldn't be playing in the NFL or at the very least complaining at all when you get called on failing to meet them.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

THIS is what a hate about "fantasy" football. A guy's season may be over (who knows from there) and all you hear from guys is "damn, I started him in my fantasy league." On the other end, someone will claim to be a fan of a team, but be jumping up and down, thrilled because he started a player that just destroyed his real team.

This is pretty much why I quit playing fantasy football. If forces you to root for players you don't like, root against players you do like, be upset if your favorite team scores but not with the right player, etc. Plus, I got sick of people who abandoned their teams if they started out 0-2.



Other notes:

Loved the classic Eagles unis. And I'm ashamed to admit that I was kindof rooting for them at the end, even with Vick at QB.

The Lions call was tough, but he left it open to interpretation by leaving it on the ground. I personally think it was a catch though.

I watched the Cowboys game really late last night (like 2 in the morning). In my tired daze this morning, I remembered the Williams catch, but forgot about the holding penalty. So I was momentarily confused to see the Redskins had won this morning. But very pleased.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Nice to see the Pats fans were on here burying the Bengals season.

I'm not trying to say they looked good despite the loss, or even that I thought it was fine, BUT I did have that game chalked up as a loss. Plus, you add to that that the Bengals had several slow starts last year, so I was not surprised that they came out flat and the Pats looked great. You would just think that the Bengals would realize that if you come out flat against a team of the Pats caliber, that they will step on your throat and break your neck, which is what they did.

Nice game by the Pats, but the Bengals are not done, Palmer is not through, and TO and CO are not about to blow-up. The Bengals lost to a better team on the road.

Whoopty-doo. The Pats did their job, let's have a ticker-tape parade.

The Bengals ( TO and Chad in particular) have called so much attention to themselves this off season, talked so much shit, and acted like asses in general so you can't be annoyed when the Bengals come out flat and people take shots at them.

The Colts came out flat as well but you don't see people ripping them because Manning and Co. act like professionals in the offseason and during camp...

and FWIW I generally am a fan of Ochocinco, I think he does a lot for the community, etc...

[DataKing]

Just saw Jay Cutler at a local convenience store (I live about 10 minutes away from Halas Hall, so running into Bears at local businesses is not all that unusual). Apparently he's pleased about something, because he had a big grin on his face.

And no, I didn't pester him for an autograph or ask him about the game. When I see celebrities or athletes in public I try not to pester them. Couldn't help staring though. For some reason I thought he'd be bigger.

[Lathum]

Have you seen his new girlfriend?

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Have you seen his new girlfriend?

Nope. He was alone.

[Lathum]

I meant do you know who she is? I would be smiling also.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Nope. He was alone.

He's reportedly dating Kristin Cavallari from The Hills

[DataKing]

Well that's a pretty good reason to be smiling, I guess.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Here's what I don't get. If a player dives for the end zone with the ball while carrying it, the minute it crosses the plane, it's a TD, correct?

So why all the "process" drama over a catch? Why are the two different?

In the first situation possession of the ball has been established by the runner already. So the moment the ball crosses the line it's a TD. With a pass, possession is not established, so possession of the ball must be maintained throughout the play, and isn't established with just two feet down.

You see it all the time on sideline plays. It's just we don't see it when the player clearly made a great play, and just put the ball down instead of cradling it. He wasn't bobbling it at all. And that is where it becomes a gray area. The rule makes it black and white, catch or no catch.

We saw it a couple years ago with Troy Polamalu. He made a great pick cradled the ball, went to the ground. In the process of getting up, with possession, he fumbled the ball, which he recovered. The play was incorrectly ruled an incompletion instead of a pick and fumble, precisely because they ruled that he didn't maintain possession throughout the play.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DataKing

Well that's a pretty good reason to be smiling, I guess.

He probably got postgame head.

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

He probably got postgame head.

We should convince her to refuse him postgame head after any game in which he throws a pick, win or lose. That would cure him of his bad habits.

[jbergey22]

I think Johnson's catch should have been 6 points and given Detroit the lead. On the other hand the Bears outplayed Detroit and deserved the win so I guess Im not terribly upset by the call. Detroit should have played better earlier and took the decision away from the refs.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DataKing

We should convince her to refuse him postgame head after any game in which he throws a pick, win or lose. That would cure him of his bad habits.

I'm not sure she's THAT hot, but it's an interesting thought. And she's hotter than any woman I'll ever sleep with, so I guess I shouldn't disparage her too much.

[Galaril]

Not that it is a surprise but it appears the Pat's Mankins will be traded at some point based on this story:
Sources: Logan Mankins, New England Patriots deal dead over apology - ESPN Boston

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Not that it is a surprise but it appears the Pat's Mankins will be traded at some point based on this story:
Sources: Logan Mankins, New England Patriots deal dead over apology - ESPN Boston

It seems like the entire Patriots' organization has been in "I'm Keith Hernandez" mode for about 7 or 8 years now.

[tucker rocky]

Female reporter: Jets made me "very uncomfortable"

NEW YORK -- A reporter for a Mexican TV network says on her Twitter account she was made to feel "very uncomfortable" while at a Jets practice Saturday where a coach appeared to throw footballs in her direction and players called out to her in the locker room.

TV reporter Ines Sainz tweeted in Spanish that she felt "very uncomfortable!" and that she was in the Jets locker room waiting to interview quarterback Mark Sanchez while trying "not to look anywhere!!"

On Sunday, the the Jets issued a statement, saying owner Woody Johnson spoke to Sainz on Sunday to discuss the incident.

"He stressed to Ines that he expects all members of the Jets organization to conduct themselves in a professional manner at all times," the statement said.

The team also said it would work with the league to gather facts and "take any appropriate steps necessary to maintain a respectful environment for the media."

The AWSM said in a statement Sunday night that both the NFL and the Jets were "responsive to our concerns" and that it would continue to monitor the situation.

"We are awaiting the results of the investigation," the statement read, "and further action from the NFL and Jets."

Copyright 2010 by The Associated Press

[Coffee Warlord]

Lovie on why he didn't kick the field goal...to take the lead....in the 4th quarter....against the opponent's backup QB....against Detroit....

"I felt like we were playing great defense and just didn't feel good about getting three points in that situation,"

DOES NOT COMPUTE

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

"I felt like we were playing great defense and just didn't feel good about getting three points in that situation,"

Translation: I'm an idiot.

[tucker rocky]

"I felt like we were playing great defense and just didn't feel good about getting three points in that situation,"

If Lovie felt they were playing great defense, then a FG would've been logical.

[DaddyTorgo]

There were pics of Ines over in the "images" thread somewhere...the woman with the orange top and the white pants.

do a GIS if you want.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

There were pics of Ines over in the "images" thread somewhere...the woman with the orange top and the white pants.

do a GIS if you want.

Yeah with that ass she had it cumming

[Jughead Spock]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

There were pics of Ines over in the "images" thread somewhere...the woman with the orange top and the white pants.

do a GIS if you want.

You want. You really, really want.


Bet that play in Chicago would've been a catch if it were Pittsburgh.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Jughead Spock

You want. You really, really want.


Bet that play in Chicago would've been a catch if it were Pittsburgh.

Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

And we commence Lovie's triumphant march to unemployment.

Nicely prophetic, CW.

Prior to the game I would have said that a Bears victory would simply have delayed a reasonable litmus test for another week, considering the opponent was Detroit. Given what happened, however, I think the litmus test is done.

Originally Posted by ColtCrazy

Grrr. No protection. No defense. No Sanders...again.

I know that when he's healthy Bob Sanders is a great player for the Colts, but it seems that every year for the past few years I've wondered why they keep him on the roster when he seems to play two games and then miss 12.

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I think I'll find it hard to watch more than one full game a week right now. I think the World Cup spoiled with in terms of commercials. Is there really a need to go FG-commercial-kickoff-commercial?

This is why I can't watch football without TIVO anymore. Or at least while doing ironing at the same time. Of course, sometimes I find myself ironing while the game is playing and stopping for the commercials. Which can be a real indictment of the game I happen to be watching.

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I had him and Forte sitting on my FF bench! That's 70 points ON MY BENCH!

This is the first year in perhaps 5 or more that I'm not playing fantasy. Mainly just because life is real busy at the moment, as opposed to being against fantasy in principle or something. And I'm finding it gives me a very different outlook while watching the games.

Originally Posted by TroyF

Like I said in my earlier comment, if that isn't a catch, the rule that makes it a non catch needs to be changed. He catches the ball, lands two feet and his ass while clearly controlling the ball. He spins over and it comes out when he puts his hand on the ground. The fact the brain dead refs missed the obvious PI call on him the very next play just makes the situation worse.

If we are on the sandlot and someone makes a catch like that and a defensive player says incomplete pass, he'd get punched in the nuts.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

It seems like the entire Patriots' organization has been in "I'm Keith Hernandez" mode for about 7 or 8 years now.

This was my initial thought.

But then I thought about it this way - if I told the press that I thought my boss was a liar during a contract negotiation, would my boss be tripping over himself to make my life as easy as possible? And Kraft has always taken the Patriots personally - see Christian Peter.

[JPhillips]

A trade will not be easy. Any interested team would have to satisfy the Patriots' and Mankins' wishes for compensation. One might be easy; two would be extremely difficult.

Translated: Lots of teams will pay Mankins a wage he'll accept, but the Pats are going to demand a shit load in a trade.

[Logan]

Guard is a tough position to get big value back for...especially with what the guy will cost you.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Logan

The player has already established possession (for 1 yard or 99) in your example, but in Megatron's case, he was in the act of establishing possession. Two completely different situations, completely different rules.

I don't know on this Johnson catch issue. You could argue that he caught the ball, controlled it when he landed, then lost it in the process of getting up to celebrate. Last I checked, you didn't have to show possession when you propped yourself up after making a play. I wish refs would use some discretion - esp when a smell test would tell you that would have been a good catch. Instead of looking for reasons to disallow a catch that looked good to 90% of unbiased fans, they should have looked for reasons to confirm the call on the field. And, by saying the ball was dropped in the act of getting up after the play, they could have found that.

According the all the people claiming the "rule" said Megatron's Catch wasn't a catch, I can't wait for this scenario:

Player makes a diving catch in the endzone with no time left. He catches the ball and lays on the ground with it in his possession. 5 teammates mob him and, in the process of being mobbed (he's still on the ground), the ball rolls on the ground 10-15 seconds after the catch was made. Because the receiver didn't fully show possession when he got up after the play, the catch should be reversed and the team loses. That, in a nutshell, is what everyone who agrees with the call is saying the "rule of law" states for this type of situation.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Nice to see the Pats fans were on here burying the Bengals season.

I'm not trying to say they looked good despite the loss, or even that I thought it was fine, BUT I did have that game chalked up as a loss. Plus, you add to that that the Bengals had several slow starts last year, so I was not surprised that they came out flat and the Pats looked great. You would just think that the Bengals would realize that if you come out flat against a team of the Pats caliber, that they will step on your throat and break your neck, which is what they did.

Nice game by the Pats, but the Bengals are not done, Palmer is not through, and TO and CO are not about to blow-up. The Bengals lost to a better team on the road.

Whoopty-doo. The Pats did their job, let's have a ticker-tape parade.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Overall, the Pats offense did look very good (as expected), but any time you can add a defensive TD and a special teams TD your odds of winning go up substantially.

But if you want to run around with a chip on your shoulder for the rest of the season, it's worked for us in the past.

Originally Posted by Galaril

Not that it is a surprise but it appears the Pat's Mankins will be traded at some point based on this story:
Sources: Logan Mankins, New England Patriots deal dead over apology - ESPN Boston

Kraft has come out and denied it. Now, the original story came from Schefter, who has the best sources in the NFL, and I don't like what Kraft said (I don't want to talk about a private conversation, but Mankins did call and apologize and was willing to say so publicly) plus it really wouldn't seem that odd for a $56 million deal to go down over "respect". So I really don't know what to think.

At least it should take attention away from the Randy Moss non-story. Thank god actual football games are back to watch and discuss instead of star-crossed players and the cold, unfeeling organization that doesn't reciprocate their feelings.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Nice to see the Pats fans were on here burying the Bengals season.

Somehow I think if the outcome was reversed there'd be a few people sending the Bengals to the Super Bowl and Patriots to a top 5 draft pick. That's the nature of week 1.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't know on this Johnson catch issue. You could argue that he caught the ball, controlled it when he landed, then lost it in the process of getting up to celebrate. Last I checked, you didn't have to show possession when you propped yourself up after making a play. I wish refs would use some discretion - esp when a smell test would tell you that would have been a good catch. Instead of looking for reasons to disallow a catch that looked good to 90% of unbiased fans, they should have looked for reasons to confirm the call on the field. And, by saying the ball was dropped in the act of getting up after the play, they could have found that.

According the all the people claiming the "rule" said Megatron's Catch wasn't a catch, I can't wait for this scenario:

Player makes a diving catch in the endzone with no time left. He catches the ball and lays on the ground with it in his possession. 5 teammates mob him and, in the process of being mobbed (he's still on the ground), the ball rolls on the ground 10-15 seconds after the catch was made. Because the receiver didn't fully show possession when he got up after the play, the catch should be reversed and the team loses. That, in a nutshell, is what everyone who agrees with the call is saying the "rule of law" states for this type of situation.

What's even more annoying, is that none of what is being discussed, this whole "process" (whatever the hell that means) language is even part of the actual rule.

Here's the rule:

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 4: 'If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete."

Without a doubt Calvin Johnson "maintain[ed] control of the ball after he touches the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone." He firmly had possession of the ball when his feet and ass hit the turf. The ball never moved, jostled, was bobbled or anything.

Simply put, he never "[lost] control of the ball." Since he never "lost control of the ball" that second sentence of that rule is inapplicable here. He caught the ball and mainted control after he touched the ground.

Where in the hell in the actual language of the rule does it say anything about "process" or "second act."

Any reasonable person (see, e.g, not RendeR) watching that play knows it's a catch. And any reasonable reading of the plain English of that rule does nothing to change that fact.

Oh well, it's the Lions. This kind of stuff happens to them.

[stevew]

It's pretty hard to feel sorry for millionaire athletes, but league-wide there are a bunch of players who got screwed on the "6 years to become a free agent" thing. Now it's hard to say definitively whether the fault rests with their union, their representation, or with the owners. Regardless, a guy like Mankins, or McNeill or numerous other guys were due to receive life changing amounts of cash this offseason. I hope it works out for them.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by molson

Somehow I think if the outcome was reversed there'd be a few people sending the Bengals to the Super Bowl and Patriots to a top 5 draft pick. That's the nature of week 1.

... and his definition of burying is pretty thin-skinned. I think DT was the only one posting anyway.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by stevew

It's pretty hard to feel sorry for millionaire athletes, but league-wide there are a bunch of players who got screwed on the "6 years to become a free agent" thing. Now it's hard to say definitively whether the fault rests with their union, their representation, or with the owners. Regardless, a guy like Mankins, or McNeill or numerous other guys were due to receive life changing amounts of cash this offseason. I hope it works out for them.

Mankins has reportedly been offered at least $50 million. It's not like the Patriots only offered the 1 year $3.25 million tender and never offered an extension. At most monetarily he wants $1m more per season.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

... and his definition of burying is pretty thin-skinned. I think DT was the only one posting anyway.

And I hardly buried the Bengals. Praised the Pats yes, buried the Bengals no.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Mankins has reportedly been offered at least $50 million. It's not like the Patriots only offered the 1 year $3.25 million tender and never offered an extension. At most monetarily he wants $1m more per season.

There's a huge difference between accepting a one party offer(the Patriots) or having the ability to become a free agent. Even if he was franchised, that would be almost 11 million for this year(vs 3). Obviously you know that not all 50 million dollar deals are created equal.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Arles

I don't know on this Johnson catch issue. You could argue that he caught the ball, controlled it when he landed, then lost it in the process of getting up to celebrate. Last I checked, you didn't have to show possession when you propped yourself up after making a play. I wish refs would use some discretion - esp when a smell test would tell you that would have been a good catch. Instead of looking for reasons to disallow a catch that looked good to 90% of unbiased fans, they should have looked for reasons to confirm the call on the field. And, by saying the ball was dropped in the act of getting up after the play, they could have found that.

According the all the people claiming the "rule" said Megatron's Catch wasn't a catch, I can't wait for this scenario:

Player makes a diving catch in the endzone with no time left. He catches the ball and lays on the ground with it in his possession. 5 teammates mob him and, in the process of being mobbed (he's still on the ground), the ball rolls on the ground 10-15 seconds after the catch was made. Because the receiver didn't fully show possession when he got up after the play, the catch should be reversed and the team loses. That, in a nutshell, is what everyone who agrees with the call is saying the "rule of law" states for this type of situation.

To my understanding, the rule doesn't state that the player has to get up with the football in order for it to be ruled a catch. The player just has to complete the process of the catch. I know that's a kinda wishy-washy phrase, but I think the point is that Johnson's entire action was one continuous motion. He caught the ball, fell down, rolled over, and let go of the ball. The officials viewed that as one continous process.

So, in your example (depending on how quickly the teammates mobbed him, I guess), as long as he completes the motion that includes gaining possession, it would be a touchdown. At the end of the day, it's could still be a judgment call, but I don't think this one instance is going to turn into some ridiculous amount of occurrences happening in the future.

Edit: Well, I've read Honolulu_Blue's post now, and if the rule doesn't state anything about the process of the catch, I guess what I said doesn't make any sense. Just from hearing Mike Pereira (I think that's his name) talk about it yesterday, I assumed that it was part of the rule.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Jughead Spock

You want. You really, really want.


Bet that play in Chicago would've been a catch if it were Pittsburgh.

Like the Polamalu interception, right?