OT: Jeopardy! fans

[kcchief19]

Just curious, does anyone know at what point contestants began appearing on the show who had seen James on TV already? Seemed like the contestant who chased him down today was familiar with his strategy and prepared to counter it by getting up in his face. Seems like the only way you could beat James was to be prepared for what was coming and play the same game.

[JPhillips]

Goes to show how impressive the Jennings streak is. James is probably the best to ever play the game, but one off night and it's over, well short of the consecutive match mark.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Just curious, does anyone know at what point contestants began appearing on the show who had seen James on TV already? Seemed like the contestant who chased him down today was familiar with his strategy and prepared to counter it by getting up in his face. Seems like the only way you could beat James was to be prepared for what was coming and play the same game.

Weeks ago. Pretty much after the first week or so, everyone knew.

Former Jeopardy champs were talking about it in some articles during the run.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by stevew

He lost?

Yes. A good player who was also very good with the buzzer (hugely important) basically beat him at his own game. She was a bit behind getting the second DD and pushed all in to take a lead something like 12-9, then later she made a smallish bet when she got the next DD and maintained the edge all night. Only one wrong answer (from anyone) the entire game, and presumably more than one person knew most of the right answers, so it was buzzer skills and brave wagers.

James, interestingly, did exactly the right thing and made a tiny FJ wager despite being just modestly behind. Some nitwits will probably misunderstand the situation... but he was in 2nd place behind a good player, with scores of something like 26-23-11. Betting just a bit (to ensure he stayed ahead of the 3rd place player) was definitely the right play there.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Some nitwits will probably misunderstand the situation... but he was in 2nd place behind a good player, with scores of something like 26-23-11. Betting just a bit (to ensure he stayed ahead of the 3rd place player) was definitely the right play there.

Yeah, I've seen some people badmouthing his wager. The dude was a professional, I think he understands freaking bet sizing better than some douche on twitter.

[albionmoonlight]

Kind of nice that he finished really close to Jennings' money total. Make future debates about who was the "better" player more interesting.

[stevew]

Since this is where the smart people congregate, if anyone is bored, the celeb pricing demands on Cameo.com are a fascinating deep dive in self metered worth

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Kind of nice that he finished really close to Jennings' money total. Make future debates about who was the "better" player more interesting.

Should be fun when we get to see him and Jennings go head-to-head.

[henry296]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Weeks ago. Pretty much after the first week or so, everyone knew.

Former Jeopardy champs were talking about it in some articles during the run.

Just read that last night's episode was taped in March and his run didn't start airing until April, so she was unaware of his strategies.

One thing I found interesting was that he found the daily double on his first pick of the game which limited his upside as he could only wager $1,000. Her getting both of them in Double Jeopardy was a huge key.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by henry296

One thing I found interesting was that he found the daily double on his first pick of the game which limited his upside as he could only wager $1,000. Her getting both of them in Double Jeopardy was a huge key.

All three played a major role in her having a real shot. I'm sure there is or will be a breakdown of that game and whether she was "better," but the game is definitely different even if the only thing you alter is him having 8K instead of 1K after the first DD hit.

[JPhillips]

How do they keep the audience quiet for months?

[QuikSand]

I am, however, fascinated about the rules of non-spoilerism when it comes to this sort of thing. I mean... "everybody" knew this guy was winning every night, and that he would eventually lose. I was watching every night, and all things equal, I would have preferred to be surprised when he lost. However, I'm an online person, and there was no avoiding it yesterday it seems.

So, we at FOFC did the right thing, right? Nobody bumped the thread. Even just posting "hey, there's a spoiler" and hiding the content would have served as the spoiler, so don't do it. I saw multiple articles/tweets basically doing just that. Saying in big bold lettering DON'T CLICK THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT THE BIG JEOPARDY! SPOILER FOR TONIGHT. I mean, nobody can possibly think they are in keeping with society's wishes about spoilers when doing that, right?

So... is this sort of situation just hopeless? (I think yes, it is)

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

How do they keep the audience quiet for months?

The security is the most impressive thing to me about this run. My understanding is that these things get filmed months ago and yet there wasn't any leakage I heard about until last weekend.

They must have an impressive NDA or something.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by henry296

Just read that last night's episode was taped in March and his run didn't start airing until April, so she was unaware of his strategies.

One thing I found interesting was that he found the daily double on his first pick of the game which limited his upside as he could only wager $1,000. Her getting both of them in Double Jeopardy was a huge key.

Jeopardy: How James Holzhauer nearly lost to Adam Levin

Perhaps the person who beat Holzhauer had a similar opportunity? The guy who lost by $18 got to see 5 episodes from the audience before facing off with Holzhauer. That's probably enough games to get a feel for his strategy.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by henry296

Just read that last night's episode was taped in March and his run didn't start airing until April, so she was unaware of his strategies.

One thing I found interesting was that he found the daily double on his first pick of the game which limited his upside as he could only wager $1,000. Her getting both of them in Double Jeopardy was a huge key.

Yes -- I read an article about her (WaPo maybe?), and she claimed that when she heard the stats for the reigning champ she was like "no way - you're kidding, right?" She apparently wasn't aware who she was playing and came up with what sounds like a very similar strategy on her own (she wrote her Masters thesis on Jeopardy!).

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

The security is the most impressive thing to me about this run. My understanding is that these things get filmed months ago and yet there wasn't any leakage I heard about until last weekend.

They must have an impressive NDA or something.

With the contestants they hold the winnings until the episode airs and that NDA takes money away if the contestant divulges the results. I'm not sure, though, how they keep the audiences from talking. There are enough of them that it would seem likely that somebody would talk even if they were eventually caught.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I am, however, fascinated about the rules of non-spoilerism when it comes to this sort of thing. I mean... "everybody" knew this guy was winning every night, and that he would eventually lose. I was watching every night, and all things equal, I would have preferred to be surprised when he lost. However, I'm an online person, and there was no avoiding it yesterday it seems.

So, we at FOFC did the right thing, right? Nobody bumped the thread. Even just posting "hey, there's a spoiler" and hiding the content would have served as the spoiler, so don't do it. I saw multiple articles/tweets basically doing just that. Saying in big bold lettering DON'T CLICK THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT THE BIG JEOPARDY! SPOILER FOR TONIGHT. I mean, nobody can possibly think they are in keeping with society's wishes about spoilers when doing that, right?

So... is this sort of situation just hopeless? (I think yes, it is)

Game of Thrones was hopeless. People posting shit like “Arya!!!” Or “OMG DANY!” Is just as bad as spelling out a spoiler understanding any context at all. I guess I bumped it at 9pm last night(well after airing time) and probably shouldn’t have. But I only knew he lost cause of some headline trash.

Is Jeopardy on in the morning in some markets? Or I’m assuming that it gets transmitted in the morning and some tech somewhere fast forwarded it? How exactly does it work? Sent over internet tubes and then downloaded to a station server?

[stevew]

I read Chopped has a 750K NDA penalty. Also if anyone likes random game shows, “Forged in Fire” on history is quite entertaining. Although a show about weapons building really should be called Chopped

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by stevew

Game of Thrones was hopeless.

Well... how long would one have had to unplug to stay free of spoilers? (I wasn't a GoT guy so I don't know) But everyone knew when the last episode was coming... so at worst you coudl have unplugged for Sat/Sun and watched Sunday night to get the unspoiled wrap-up. Right?


What I mean by Jeopardy is the timing of the twist itself is the spoiler. So, let's say Emma goes on a crazy run now, gets up to 15 wins, and everyone gets all into it again.

Then, what do I do, if I don't want to be spoiled? Stay off the internet for the next 4 weeks until someone beats her? That's too much work.

And the point is... nobody can talk about the end of the streak without spoiling it. I listened to "The Gist" discuss James's final wager (they approved, despite the nitwit detractors) but opened with a giant "spoiler alert" that clearly served no purpose.... once you hear there's a J! spoiler, it's perfectly clear what it was.

The closest thing I saw was people using some smokescreen tactics on Monday, posting reports that the rumor of James losing might have been from doctored footage or something like that. I guess that's the best we are going to get.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, we at FOFC did the right thing, right? Nobody bumped the thread. Even just posting "hey, there's a spoiler" and hiding the content would have served as the spoiler, so don't do it.

...

So... is this sort of situation just hopeless? (I think yes, it is)

This crossed my mind when I was "spoiled" in the morning. The first place I came was this thread to see the reaction, and it was crickets. Thought about posting, but realized there was no way to do it without spoiling things.

I agree that it's hopeless due to the tape delay unless you have no online presence.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by stevew

I read Chopped has a 750K NDA penalty. Also if anyone likes random game shows, “Forged in Fire” on history is quite entertaining. Although a show about weapons building really should be called Chopped

Survivor has a $5 million NDA penalty, but the worst they've ever done is ban someone from the reunion. The returnee seasons are always heavily spoiled.

[QuikSand]

*sigh*

The Final Wager on Twitter: "There's been a lot of Very Serious Discussion that @James_Holzhauer threw his last game, or that his Final Jeopardy! wager was somehow indefensible.

@Jeopardy! All-Stars @austintylerro and @monica_too_ join me to set the record straight.

https://t.co/hpJo4nJ92D"

(not responding to the audio, but to the nitwits who made it necessary, and who won't listen)

[Lathum]

The thought that he threw his last game is ludicrous. He made just over 2 million, after taxes he will walk with probably about 1.4. Life changing? Sure, but he is still a pretty young guy with a young kid. No way he gives up that kind of money on purpose.

[QuikSand]

Trebek back in chemo after bad signs.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alex-tr...rning-america/

Hang in there, Alex!

[Kodos]

Keep on fighting!

[QuikSand]

SPOILER FOR WEST COASTERS - TUESDAY NIGHT - SORRY

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So, for unreasonably unforgivable sins, fairly high on my list would be "clearly smart people who won't take the short time needed to understand Jeopardy! wagering even after being invited onto the show."

Tonight... awful case.

Champ is clearly the best player, has a solid lead into DJ round. Then Challenger 2 gets the first DJ, and has to make a decision, with scores maybe 15-3-7. He decided to bet most but not quite all his money, maybe 6000 out of 7700? Ok, I'm fine with that I guess. I don't really love the implicit value attached to "having a tiny bit to play on with" but there are occasionally spoiler avenues fora 3rd place player, so fine. He gets it, and is right in the hunt.

Then, fairly soon after, he hits the other DJ. The score is now something like 17-4-12... and he bets...? No, not everything, but just barely enough to take a slight lead, I think it's 7,000 (he could have bet 5K more). He hits it, takes a slight lead, and then down the stretch the superior champ takes control and leads roughly 24-5-20 into FJ.

The lunacy is not over.

Question is tough. They got to challenger 1 with 5400, she's wrong, wagered EVERYTHING ans goes broke. Sigh.

Challenger 2. He is also wrong. He bet ALMOST EVERYTHING and is left with $101. WTF.

Champion is also wrong. He made the proper bet - something like $17K, enough to beat out Challenger 2 if they both got it right. So, he walks away as still the champ, with another $7K or so in winnings.


Challenger 2 is a pretty smart guy, a good J! player, and just refused to give any thought to this particular element of the game, It's shocking how common that is. He made poor, but defensible (if risk-averse) decisions with his DJ wagers, but then got the salvation he needed with a stumper FJ question, and managed to hit for the fuckup cycle with another shit wager that sent him home broke, instead of up $20K as a returning champion. Nitwit in 3rd place put all her eggs into the "the two guys who just crushed me at trivia will both be stumped, but I alone will get this one" basket and she's broke too.

I can't.

[cuervo72]

The J! Archive has instructions for these things. You would think if you were going on the show you might take notes.

[QuikSand]

Guess this forum missed the recent ToC, but anyway...

= = = = =

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/enter...ime/index.html

So obviously the right move.

[JPhillips]

Watching the GOAT tourny it's really clear that James changed the game forever. Everybody is betting all or almost all on Daily Doubles and, in general, the game is played from the bottom of the board to the top.

And poor Brad isn't doing well on the doubles so far.

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Watching the GOAT tourny it's really clear that James changed the game forever. Everybody is betting all or almost all on Daily Doubles and, in general, the game is played from the bottom of the board to the top.

And poor Brad isn't doing well on the doubles so far.

Watching and enjoying as well. As of now, it is clearly a 2 person game with Ken and James being rather equal on the buzzer and knowledge and recall. And this is where Brad is falling short...he is clearly not fast enough on the buzzer and his recall is falling short. Those DD that he missed were not that difficult and he is over thinking/short on recall, where you can clearly see James running through the files and files of information he has in his head on some questions and pulls out the answer (sometimes on just a good educated guess).

I know the tapings were done in December, but what I am not sure on is how many days. I think it was 3. If that is the case, did they tape a morning 'show' and an evening 'show?' I hope they were not back to back with minimal breaks. The reasoning behind this, is if a contestant is having a bad day (Brad), that can carry over into the next 'show' if it is the same day, where obviously Ken and James can be on point for back to back shows.

As of now, I believe Ken is winning overall coryat, but James isn't too far off. The best thing to happen, happened last night with James winning game 2 and Brad is still only technically 1 game behind.

I do think James is the overall best player though and you can see how it changes Ken's strategy and forcing him to go all in more than he is comfortable with and Brad is really being outclassed so far.

[QuikSand]

I missed night one, saw night two, and have scrupulously avoided spoilers.

I think with three excellent players, unless they deliberately and publicly commit to making the questions themselves harder, they end up really changing the game a lot. If all three contestants will know (and recognize that the others will know) 80-90% of the right answers, then the game is increasingly a matter of:

1) buzzer timing
2) luck of locating the DDs; and
3) aggression/success when you do so

That's a pretty different game than when you have three random contestants... even though there's filtering to make sure you don't have any total dopes there, the combination of nerves and knowledge variations makes the game principally about knowledge/command of the subjects. In this setup, it's less so. (Back to my gripes with the silly Watson game, where clearly the most important determinant was how good did they make the Watson robot at buzzing in?)

I remain very interested. I like the banter and the playfulness, that's a good small addition here. If we come out of this basically discarding Brad Rutter as being in the GOAT conversation (as it looks right now) then that's a shame, in no small part because what they're playing isn't exactly the same thing as Jeopardy! per se, in my view.

[ISiddiqui]

I did find it interesting that Ken has continually said before this tournament that Brad has always beat him (Brad's only loss was to the IBM Watson, IIRC). It just could be that this new version of Jeopardy that James has spearheaded is one that Brad just can't get comfortable in. Because if he was consistently able to beat Ken in prior tournaments but now is getting completely outpaced, then it seems like something is different.

[QuikSand]

Brad and Ken faced off in a three-person, two-night final when they held a special "Quest for Ken" tournament and brought back years worth of top players. Brad was among the two who emerged from the play-in, and Ken was simply placed into the finals.

The only other time they played head to head was in the novelty game against IBM's Watson, which was absurd in many ways. Brad scores higher than Ken, but Watson creamed them both, because of reasons largely unrelated to its AI capabilities. It was interesting, but it wasn't Jeopardy! in any real sense.

So... yes, Brad beat Ken. Once, over two nights. Pretty soundly, but not fifteen times.

[Lathum]

Jessica Smetana on Twitter: "Help… "

[Butter]

Fun tournament so far. It's a shame that Brad basically hasn't shown up.

[QuikSand]

James has pretty mercilessly trolled Brad on twitter - making me think that Brad has a rally left in him. If he just finished a distant third in every game all the way through, I suspect James wouldn't be socking it to him like he has been now. Not a spoiler, just my hunch... I don't think James is that much of a prick.

[Butter]

When he made fun of Brad for getting the Philadelphia answer, I couldn't tell if it was totally good fun or a little edgy.

[molson]

Bethlehem is not in Palestine apparently. Poor Alex.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

James has pretty mercilessly trolled Brad on twitter - making me think that Brad has a rally left in him. If he just finished a distant third in every game all the way through, I suspect James wouldn't be socking it to him like he has been now. Not a spoiler, just my hunch... I don't think James is that much of a prick.

I don't think he's a prick either, and I think you may be right about that rally.

(Of course I'd like to see this last a few extra matches, so I selfishly would like to see Brad win a couple.)

[JPhillips]

About that Brad having a rally theory...

[JPhillips]

No, James is just picking on Brad for some reason.

[JPhillips]

X makes a terrible bet.

But Y misses final jeopardy.

Wow.

[CrimsonFox]

HORATIO?!?

Even I knew it wasn't horatio! Such a terrible guess.

I was thinking Edgar or Edmund from King Lear but Iago is damn obv

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

No, James is just picking on Brad for some reason.

I just think it is his personality and hopefully Brad and he have that kind of relationship. His line about resetting Brads score was savage

[Jas_lov]

Brad was just awful the whole time. I thought he usually did well vs Ken. That surprised me more than anything. Ken was aggressive and dominated. Hopefully he takes over as host for Alex. I think he bet $0 in the last FJ because he thought James would go all in and couldn't catch him.

[cuervo72]

I think it was the buzzer. It looked like there were numerous times when Brad attempted to ring in but was just a hair too slow compared to the other two. And every time he got a DD, he booted it.

For the final wager, Ken was wagering for James to bet it all, in which case for Ken to win, James had to miss. So, stand pat.

[CrimsonFox]

KEN! KEN! KEN! KEN! KEN! KEN! KEN! KEN! KEN!

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

X makes a terrible bet.

But Y misses final jeopardy.

Wow.

Not a terrible bet. He only wins if James misses.

[JPhillips]

If he's betting for both to miss, I think zero is the better bet. It's points rather than dollars, so it doesn't really matter, but I didn't like the bet amount if you'll only win if James misses.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If he's betting for both to miss, I think zero is the better bet. It's points rather than dollars, so it doesn't really matter, but I didn't like the bet amount if you'll only win if James misses.

No, I meant he only wins if James misses no matter what he bets. If James bets it all and gets it right, he has $122,181. The most Ken can get is $111,600. There was no reason for Ken to bet.