The NFL 2011 Offseason/Strike/Lockout Thread

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by stevew

Without seeing a breakdown, it could easily be a 3 yr deal that has cap hits in the 6M range for the first 3 years. I'm sure the out years are at like 10m/year.

Still not sure I see the value. I guess we need to see what the actual signing bonus is to see how badly this affects Carolina in year four of the deal (which he'll be gone by).

[DanGarion]

The Old Spice guy singlehandedly negotiated the football deal.

[Travis]

Glazer is reporting Sidney Rice to Seattle.

If, and it's a big if, Cable can get this young group of linemen to improve the running game and keep opposing defenses honest, this could be a fun offense to watch.

Granted the QB position is a huge question mark right now but now they've got the vertical threat in Rice, an intermediate/physical receiver with Williams along with a pretty gifted receiving tight end in Carlson. As long as Carlson isn't having to spend more time blocking than receiving like last year and the running game can be productive, it could be enough to get the offense clicking.

Still, this could be the best receiving group the team has had since I've been watching (re: since the Rick Mirer era), now hopefully one of the QB's on the roster can step up.

[JAG]

That's a tough loss for the Vikings if true. When healthy the past couple years, he was pretty solid.

[stevew]

Does this mean that they will show Seahawks games in SC cause they signed Rice?

[JAG]

I wonder what OG of Seattle the Vikings will sign in retaliation.

[stevew]

Max Starks cut by the Steelers. I'm sure this is a mistake and we will retroactively apply the franchise and transition tags on him.

[Sublime 2]

Pats acquiring Haynesworth?

Wow.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

Pats acquiring Haynesworth?

Wow.

Another one that I just can't grasp. Wasn't his whole D.C. temper tantrum over having to play in a '3-4' defense?

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Another one that I just can't grasp. Wasn't his whole D.C. temper tantrum over having to play in a '3-4' defense?

I'm petty sure the Patriots are in sub packages the majority of the time, even if the 3-4 is there 'base.'

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

I'm petty sure the Patriots are in sub packages the majority of the time, even if the 3-4 is there 'base.'

Regardless, they're still in a 3 man front the vast majority of the time.

[jeff061]

Yeah. He'll be playing end and not nose, hopefully get a little more action. Still...not sure how I feel about this. Loved it immediately when they signed Dillon and Moss, but on this I have no real feeling yet. They only gave up a 5th, but he's still due a good amount of money.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Regardless, they're still in a 3 man front the vast majority of the time.

On running downs, yes, but I have a feeling that Haynesworth will only see the sub package anyway. You'd be surprised how often the Pats line up 4.

Quote Link

The Patriots are known as a 3-4 defense, but that's not what they played in the majority of their snaps. In fact, it wasn't even close.

Of 1,101 defensive plays charted by ESPNBoston.com (including some penalties and 2-point conversions), the Patriots were in a sub package 628 times. That's a 57 percent clip.

Meanwhile, the defense was in a base 3-4 alignment 441 times (40 percent) and short-yardage personnel on 32 snaps (3 percent).

[QuikSand]

Reggie Bush traded to the Dolphins? I don't think I had heard word one about their interest in him - had heard D. Williams but not Bush. Gotta stew on that, not sure what to think (though it does seem to spell a clear way out for the incumbents).

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by stevew

Max Starks cut by the Steelers. I'm sure this is a mistake and we will retroactively apply the franchise and transition tags on him.

Jon Scott is the starting LT...if they are lucky enough to re-sign him

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Reggie Bush traded to the Dolphins? I don't think I had heard word one about their interest in him - had heard D. Williams but not Bush. Gotta stew on that, not sure what to think (though it does seem to spell a clear way out for the incumbents).

First thing I heard from my co-worker (and huge Dolphins fan) when I walked in. He's pretty excited about it actually ("We really needed a punt returner." Me: "Yeah, well didn't you guys DRAFT one a couple years ago?" Groan.)

[Doug5984]

I loved watching Reggie and was as frustrated a fan of his as any- but time to part ways, we can use his cap space to bring back some key pieces. I wouldn't mind if he gets his career together in Miami, and am glad he is going to the AFC- there is no question he has the talent to be great, it's shown in flashes- but he was never able to really put it together in NOLA. Best of luck, it's been fun.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Yeah. He'll be playing end and not nose, hopefully get a little more action. Still...not sure how I feel about this. Loved it immediately when they signed Dillon and Moss, but on this I have no real feeling yet. They only gave up a 5th, but he's still due a good amount of money.

Good pickup value for 1-2 seasons. He'll help make their sub packages better and offer some real problems for opposing lines even if he does play at DE.

Not a Pats fan...but in watching them play it seems they really don't have quite the depth & skillsets at LB that they once had so this type of a move might also signal them adapting more to the LB personnel that they have (or have to work with). So, wouldn't be shocked to see more 4-3 even.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

First thing I heard from my co-worker (and huge Dolphins fan) when I walked in. He's pretty excited about it actually ("We really needed a punt returner." Me: "Yeah, well didn't you guys DRAFT one a couple years ago?" Groan.)

Right!! That's what always killed me about letting Ginn go. Bad enough you draft a (albeit decent) PR guy at #10...but then you let him go?!

I had heard Miami was interested in Ahmad Bradshaw but I dont think the Giants are going to let him slip away.

Probably a good pickup for the Phins. Without a great QB...they may be able to put Reggie to work more and get him the ball. I've never seen him as the traditional RB who can carry 20+ per game but he will help keep defenses honest and not allow them to stack the box as often. Couple that with a pretty solid young line and I think they can do some things despit the tough division.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Reggie Bush traded to the Dolphins? I don't think I had heard word one about their interest in him - had heard D. Williams but not Bush. Gotta stew on that, not sure what to think (though it does seem to spell a clear way out for the incumbents).

The book on Bush, from the perspective of a Saints fan, is not that different than the public perception of him.

I think that he has more value than people realize. Once he was declared a bust, people wrote him off. He was never a true bust. He just wasn't top-five worthy. If he had been drafted one round later and had the exact same career, people would be much higher on him.

Biggest problem for him has been health. It is a well-worn analogy, but he's like a sweet cherry-red Porsche that runs like it is on rails, but is in the shop 300 days a year. He's always getting dinged up, and his game does not really let him play through those dings. He needs to be close to 100% health-wise to really make an impact.

But, when healthy, he can make that impact. He's a mismatch nightmare for defenses. He's got great hands and can line up in the slot as easily as in the backfield. And his pass-blocking is very good (and very underrated). When he is in the huddle, the defense really has no idea where he will line up or what he will do--which really opens up other aspects of the offense if you have a QB who can take advantage of that. (You guys really need to upgrade Henne, to state the obvious).

To take that a step farther, if your QB really knows what he is doing, then Bush can be a great diagnostic tool. Putting him in motion before the snap forces the defense to tip its hand a bit. He demands enough attention that you can see how the defense reacts to him in motion and use that to figure out the defense pre-snap. Drew Brees did that all the time. (I mean, seriously, Chad Henne?)

Bush also still has the gamebreaking speed and moves that force defenses to cover him with something more than a linebacker or a plodding safety. This, again, opens things up for other players. And he's really good at making teams pay for under-covering him. It never makes it on Sportscenter, but his greatest contributions, I think, are not the 50 yard touchdown runs. It's when he takes a little flare pass out the backfield and uses his speed to outrun the linebacker and turn it into a 10 yard gain. He turns a lot of 4 yard plays into 10 yard gains by simply outrunning the defense to the sidelines. Keeps the chains moving and all that.

Finally, he will have occasional plays where he puts his head down and runs between the tackles, but those are rare. You can't teach an old dog too many new tricks, and Bush will almost always break plays to the outside that should go inside. Bad habits picked up from HS and college, I guess. You will see a lot of potential 3 yard runs turn into 1 yard losses because he tried to bounce it outside when the hole didn't open up for him.

Oh, and Bush has always had someone there--Deuce, Pierre Thomas--as the other back. The Dolphins will still need another running back to complement him. His health and running style will not let the team depend on him as an RB1 getting 300+ carries.

All that said, for a team that limits his touches and knows how to use him, he is a real weapon that will make the whole offense better.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Reggie Bush traded to the Dolphins? I don't think I had heard word one about their interest in him - had heard D. Williams but not Bush. Gotta stew on that, not sure what to think (though it does seem to spell a clear way out for the incumbents).

Daniel Thomas, the 2nd round pick, could do some nice things if they're really going to label Bush "the man" (which is what Mike Lombardi is now reporting).

[Doug5984]

Just saw Miami is giving Reggie $10 mil over 2 years- about what I figured he would get, just wasn't sure if the Saints were willing to pay him that much, I guess we weren't

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Reggie Bush traded to the Dolphins? I don't think I had heard word one about their interest in him - had heard D. Williams but not Bush. Gotta stew on that, not sure what to think (though it does seem to spell a clear way out for the incumbents).

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DEAR GOD NO

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Rizon

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DEAR GOD NO

Now we should shoot for getting Tedd Ginn Jr. back.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Good pickup value for 1-2 seasons. He'll help make their sub packages better and offer some real problems for opposing lines even if he does play at DE.

Not a Pats fan...but in watching them play it seems they really don't have quite the depth & skillsets at LB that they once had so this type of a move might also signal them adapting more to the LB personnel that they have (or have to work with). So, wouldn't be shocked to see more 4-3 even.

How much does he actually count against the cap? It obviously can't be much more than $7 million unless they're planning on releasing some other players or redoing his contract. Did the Redskins have to eat a bunch of his salary cap early on with a signing bonus?

Based on previous history, and with no idea of the cap impact, I'd be willing to be that the Patriots have an out somehow that mitigates the financial impact. Also - Patriots and Redskings trading - who would you bet comes out ahead?

Definitely worth a 5th round pick. Him and Wilfork lined up next to each other in a hybrid 4-3? Awesome. I would think Belichick saw the opportunity to address an area of need and he took it at a pretty low risk with a pretty high potential reward.

Thanks, Dan Snyder!

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

How much does he actually count against the cap? It obviously can't be much more than $7 million unless they're planning on releasing some other players or redoing his contract. Did the Redskins have to eat a bunch of his salary cap early on with a signing bonus?

Based on previous history, and with no idea of the cap impact, I'd be willing to be that the Patriots have an out somehow that mitigates the financial impact. Also - Patriots and Redskings trading - who would you bet comes out ahead?

Definitely worth a 5th round pick. Him and Wilfork lined up next to each other in a hybrid 4-3? Awesome. I would think Belichick saw the opportunity to address an area of need and he took it at a pretty low risk with a pretty high potential reward.

Thanks, Dan Snyder!

At least the Pats will be able to cut him if he turns cancerous. It's another head-scratcher to me, but they've come out fine with all previous head-scratchers that were possible cancers, so I'll go with "In Bill We Trust" here.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

At least the Pats will be able to cut him if he turns cancerous. It's another head-scratcher to me, but they've come out fine with all previous head-scratchers that were possible cancers, so I'll go with "In Bill We Trust" here.

It's not necessarily a head scratcher to me. Despite all the talk about linebackers, D-line is also a huge area of need, and has been since Seymour left. Haynesworth was an all-world talent before he went to the Redskins. I'm pretty sure the Patriots can get more out of him than Shannahan/Snyder. I'm not saying Haynesworth is Tony Robbins, but if you look at how Shannahan handled McNabb's situation, it's not as if the head coach was majoring in interpersonal relationships either.

[stevew]

Haynesworth
2011-5.4M
2012 6.7M
2013 29M
2014 10.3m
2015 11.5M

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

How much does he actually count against the cap? It obviously can't be much more than $7 million unless they're planning on releasing some other players or redoing his contract. Did the Redskins have to eat a bunch of his salary cap early on with a signing bonus?

Based on previous history, and with no idea of the cap impact, I'd be willing to be that the Patriots have an out somehow that mitigates the financial impact. Also - Patriots and Redskings trading - who would you bet comes out ahead?

Definitely worth a 5th round pick. Him and Wilfork lined up next to each other in a hybrid 4-3? Awesome. I would think Belichick saw the opportunity to address an area of need and he took it at a pretty low risk with a pretty high potential reward.

Thanks, Dan Snyder!

Looks like $5.4M this year. Any of the previous bonuses paid out by Washington are not going to impact his cap number in NE.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...eagency/2.html

Edit: What he said ^

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

On running downs, yes, but I have a feeling that Haynesworth will only see the sub package anyway. You'd be surprised how often the Pats line up 4.

Quote Link

Those numbers don't tell the full story. Of those sub packages, how many are nickel and dime packages with 3-man fronts?

I hate the Pats, The Hoodie and Haynesworth, but this seems like a perfect fit. The Pats know how to make this work, and Haynesworth should have enough left to be a very productive rush end that can draw double teams.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by stevew

Haynesworth
2011-5.4M
2012 6.7M
2013 29M
2014 10.3m
2015 11.5M

Ouch

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Those numbers don't tell the full story. Of those sub packages, how many are nickel and dime packages with 3-man fronts?

Pats are generally in a 4-2-5 in the sub package.

[molson]

Typical pats move, really. It sucks to have a guy like that on the team you root for though. Eh, if he produces I'll get over it.

[Swaggs]

He'll probably play one great season for them and then they'll flip him for a 2nd rounder.

[Sublime 2]

I've read in a couple places that AH's contract isn't even guaranteed for 2011, not sure how that works out?

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Rizon

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DEAR GOD NO

That is my reaction as well. Not a fan of Reggie Bush.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Ouch

Yep...1 or 2 seasons and then..gone.

[jeff061]

Yep 1 or 2 quality seasons for a 5th round pick would be great if that's all we get.

[bhlloy]

Unbelievable return for the Eagles on Kolb - DRC is a good young corner even if he's only at the level he played at last year rather than 2009, and if he's better then he's one of the top 5 young guys in the league. To get the original second round pick you spent on getting Kolb back again is unbelievable.

Make or break move for Whisenhunt. If he's getting the Kevin Kolb that really hasn't looked any better than Matt Leinart so far in his NFL career, and he gave up all that for him, he's not going to be a HC in the NFL again for a while.

[Izulde]

I'm actually intrigued to see what Reggie Bush can do for us. I'm waiting to hear what we gave up, though.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I'm actually intrigued to see what Reggie Bush can do for us. I'm waiting to hear what we gave up, though.

Keep your eyes fixed squarely on the backs of your offensive linemen.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

DRC is a good young corner even if he's only at the level he played at last year rather than 2009, and if he's better then he's one of the top 5 young guys in the league.

Off the top of my head, not sure I'd call a peak DRC as one of the top 5 young guys in the league.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Off the top of my head, not sure I'd call a peak DRC as one of the top 5 young guys in the league.

At the CB position?

edit - yeah that wasn't clear

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

At the CB position?

edit - yeah that wasn't clear

Oh oops, ok if you say at the CB position then that's fine.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Unbelievable return for the Eagles on Kolb - DRC is a good young corner even if he's only at the level he played at last year rather than 2009, and if he's better then he's one of the top 5 young guys in the league. To get the original second round pick you spent on getting Kolb back again is unbelievable.

Make or break move for Whisenhunt. If he's getting the Kevin Kolb that really hasn't looked any better than Matt Leinart so far in his NFL career, and he gave up all that for him, he's not going to be a HC in the NFL again for a while.

I just can't imagine Kolb being worse or at the same level than any of the QB's my beloved Cards tried out last season. Is he worth franchise QB type money like he got? Time will tell, and if he's not it'll be the end of Coach Whisenhunt in Arizona.

The reason DRC was traded was that Coach Whisenhunt didn't like his work ethic and especially this past season became very hit or miss-he had a few games where he guessed/read the QB well and got a good jump leading to an INT, and too many where he was burned. The writing was on the wall for him when they drafted a CB in the first round. I do think the 2nd round pick along with DRC was too high for Kolb, I think a 3rd or 4th would have been fairer, but the important thing is that they didn't give up their 1st round pick which is surely what the Eagles were hoping to get for him.

The worrisome part now is that the Cards just let WR Steve Breaston go in free agency meaning they are down to just Larry Fitzgerald again and a couple young guys they are high on in Doucet and Roberts. Doesn't matter how good Kolb is if he only has Fitz to throw to-we saw that last season with Breaston injured most of the season the Cards offense was pretty pitiful. I hope they go out and find someone in free agency now to replace Breaston.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I just can't imagine Kolb being worse or at the same level than any of the QB's my beloved Cards tried out last season. Is he worth franchise QB type money like he got? Time will tell, and if he's not it'll be the end of Coach Whisenhunt in Arizona.

His career #'s are very similar to Leinart and not that much better than Derek Anderson. Now if you think his ceiling is way higher that's one thing, but I don't think it's a given he's going to walk right in and be a clear upgrade over either of those guys. It's a big, big gamble. And like you say, it's not going to help that the receiving core isn't one of the best in the league any more (to say the least)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

a couple young guys they are high on in Doucet and Roberts.

As in Early Doucet? Srsly?

[Scoobz0202]

Chad Johnson to the patriots, according to some people

http://www.local12.com/content/break...wUkd60.twitter

http://twitter.com/#!/joereedy

[Caine]

ESPN has just confirmed Ochocinco to the Pats, restructured 3 year deal.

Big day for the Pats.

[GrantDawg]

Pats= Yankees. It is now official.