The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[albionmoonlight]

Greg--

Do you think that either Clinton's or Obama's actions in office justify a coup by military officers sworn to uphold the Constitution?

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I think (hope?) it's just part of the process or renewal for the Republicans. The Bush Presidency really threw them for a loop and they're trying to figure out their identity post-Bush. This pandering stuff is easy for them, but probably not very effective so we'll have to see who really picks the reins up.

[albionmoonlight]

Also--I'm having a bad day, so this probably isn't the right thread for me to be in right now. To the extent I've been a butthole, I'm sorry. I'll come back some other time.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Greg--

Do you think that either Clinton's or Obama's actions in office justify a coup by military officers sworn to uphold the Constitution?

Nope. The page you linked was a bunch of drivel.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Also--I'm having a bad day, so this probably isn't the right thread for me to be in right now. To the extent I've been a butthole, I'm sorry. I'll come back some other time.

Bah, you weren't at all, you were making pretty intelligent points for this thread.

[RainMaker]

I'm sure the government is shaking in it's boots.



VS

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

There is quite a HUGE difference as to the standing of Atlanta around the globe in 1994 and the standing of Chicago around the globe (not to mention its standing in 2016).

Chicago is still seen as a city behind New York and Los Angeles. It's just not in that top tier. I think the goal would be to give Chicago the same prestige New York gets.

I know I'm a homer, but Chicago is a pretty great city that I don't think gets the credit it deserves across the country or globe.

[Kodos]

FWIW, I've lived near both, and vastly prefer Chicago to NYC.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I'll also add in reference to the linked article that if the military didn't launch a coup while Clinton was in office, I don't think they will for Obama. Clinton did far more to the military than that letter is listing Obama doing...

There isn't going to be a coup for Obama or any sitting President. It's just masturbation material for people butthurt about the election that borders on treason.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/s...perry_coup.pdf

Good god.

They should arrest this guy.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

So, I still expect more out of the GOP. The Dems are supposed to be stupid, and make emotional appeals, and just generally not quite get it. The GOP is supposed to have its shit together.

So, it suprises me when I see the GOP acting like I expect the Dems to act. I expect better from them.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I mentioned this in response to an earlier poll saying support of GOP was really low. I don't think anyone's abandoning their conservative roots. I just think they expect their conservative leaders to put up a much better and more grounded counter-stance than what they are doing right now. There's a huge opportunity to make some sense and grab political capital on both sides, but neither side is doing much more than making themselves look like idiots right now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think the goal would be to give Chicago the same prestige New York gets.

Then the goal isn't particularly realistic, not unless there's a sudden massive population explosion in Chicago. Hard to get to the same tier as a market that's more than twice your size, doesn't much matter who you are.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Chicago is still seen as a city behind New York and Los Angeles. It's just not in that top tier. I think the goal would be to give Chicago the same prestige New York gets.

I know I'm a homer, but Chicago is a pretty great city that I don't think gets the credit it deserves across the country or globe.

Chicago is already considered a world city. I don't think you could argue against that for a second.

Even with the Olympics, it will remain behind NYC (ie, the financial capital of the world) and LA (ie, the entertainment capital of the world - yes, Bombay makes a lot of money, but LA has more influence).

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Then the goal isn't particularly realistic, not unless there's a sudden massive population explosion in Chicago. Hard to get to the same tier as a market that's more than twice your size, doesn't much matter who you are.

Bingo, and NYC is where Wall Street is. Regardless of recent downturns, its the economic center for the country and the world. I don't see how Chicago can even come close to approaching it, even with 2 straight Olympics.

[mckerney]

NSFW, redneck calls for Obama to be 'inpeached' because banning 'flayvored dips'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCvkatCGNFY

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

There isn't going to be a coup for Obama or any sitting President. It's just masturbation material for people butthurt about the election that borders on treason.

I never thought I would see the day when our government openly tortured people either.

Right now we have a large group of people who do not believe the president is legitimate and the Constitution is no longer practical.
That is not a good combination.

[RainMaker]

I'm not saying Chicago has to be the same as NYC or LA, but I think it could definitely add some prestige to the city. Sort of like Barcelona which while known, reached a new level after 1992.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Surtt

...and the Constitution is no longer practical.

The fun part is these folks sit on both sides of the aisle. It's amazing how much power the federal government has taken on (like meddling in education) and every president just wants to keep adding more to the pot.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Chicago is already considered a world city. I don't think you could argue against that for a second.

Even with the Olympics, it will remain behind NYC (ie, the financial capital of the world) and LA (ie, the entertainment capital of the world - yes, Bombay makes a lot of money, but LA has more influence).

...and, of course, behind Atlanta as the busiest airport.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Surtt

I never thought I would see the day when our government openly tortured people either.

Right now we have a large group of people who do not believe the president is legitimate and the Constitution is no longer practical.
That is not a good combination.

I don't think ousting the president via a military coupe is a real threat in the United States of America.

If anything, you are more likely to see a state or group of states seceed. If something like that actually got enough momentum to happen it would come from a more legitimate segment of the populace and I really don't think Americans have the stomach to go to war about that sort of thing anymore.

I really don't see that happening anytime soon either.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Chicago is already considered a world city. I don't think you could argue against that for a second.

Even with the Olympics, it will remain behind NYC (ie, the financial capital of the world) and LA (ie, the entertainment capital of the world - yes, Bombay makes a lot of money, but LA has more influence).

Commodities exchange?

[CamEdwards]

If Kodos wants to arrest the Newsmax guy... he must want to send Gore Vidal to Gitmo.

Gore Vidal: ‘We’ll have a dictatorship soon in the US’ - Times Online

Some highlights:

We’ll have a military dictatorship fairly soon, on the basis that nobody else can hold everything together. Obama would have been better off focusing on educating the American people. His problem is being over-educated. He doesn’t realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is. Benjamin Franklin said that the system would fail because of the corruption of the people and that happened under Bush.”

Obama believes the Republican Party is a party when in fact it’s a mindset, like Hitler Youth, based on hatred — religious hatred, racial hatred. When you foreigners hear the word ‘conservative’ you think of kindly old men hunting foxes. They’re not, they’re fascists.”

Vidal became a supportive correspondent of Timothy McVeigh, who blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City in 1995 killing 168 people. The huge loss of life, indeed McVeigh’s act of mass murder, goes unmentioned by Vidal. “He was a true patriot, a Constitution man,” Vidal claims. “And I was torn, my grandfather [the Democrat Senator Thomas Gore] had bought Oklahoma into the Union.”

I love these next two quotes...

“Does anyone care what Americans think? They’re the worst-educated people in the First World. They don’t have any thoughts, they have emotional responses, which good advertisers know how to provoke.”

followed a paragraph later with...

“I would have liked to have been president, but I never had the money. I was a friend of the throne.

His fellow Americans are stupid, conservatives are fascists, and he could have been president if he only had more money. I guess intellectual really isn't a synonym for smart, huh?

[albionmoonlight]

When you foreigners hear the word ‘conservative’ you think of kindly old men hunting foxes.

ummm..... ok?

“And I was torn, my grandfather [the Democrat Senator Thomas Gore] had bought Oklahoma into the Union.”

So, but for the fact that your grandpa brough Okalahoma into the Union, you had no problem calling McVeigh a patriot? The mix of insanity and ego in that one statement is jaw dropping.

[JPhillips]

Dumbass.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Provocative does not equal intelligent.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

ummm..... ok?

That one's not so far off base. Bear in mind he's speaking to an English audience to whom the word "conservative" generally means old-school Tories, or basically old white guys on horses chasing after foxes across the countryside. Broadly, broadly speaking.

The rest of its BS, though, and he should be lynched for supporting McVeigh.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

He's an old coot. What is Gore Vidal's audience these days, anyway?

[Mustang]

I'm getting Gore Vidal mixed up with Vidal Sassoon

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

He's an old coot. What is Gore Vidal's audience these days, anyway?

The last remnants of the Gilded Age who read Vanity Fair and live in the Hamptons.

[flere-imsaho]

Without him, though, we would have been robbed of his wholly entertaining fued with William F. Buckley....

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

The last remnants of the Gilded Age who read Vanity Fair and live in the Hamptons.

You don't think Vidal is still read and admired by many academics? He's not still considered one of the great intellectuals of the 20th century?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

You don't think Vidal is still read and admired by many academics? He's not still considered one of the great intellectuals of the 20th century?

I can tell you that at both my previous institution and my current one no one has ever mentioned Vidal and I don't think he's been included on any syllabi.

[molson]

"Friends? These are my only friends. Grown-up nerds like Gore Vidal, and even he's kissed more boys than I ever will."

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

You don't think Vidal is still read and admired by many academics?

It's possible to read and admire the stuff he wrote ages ago and still think the guy currently has gone off the reservation.

As for the current audience of his current fevered ramblings? I'm sure they include a goodly number of coastal liberal long-tenured academics and trust me, I disdain those turkeys just as much as you do.

He's not still considered one of the great intellectuals of the 20th century?

Evidence would indicate that he is. That doesn't mean he's not currently an irascible old coot who's out of touch with reality.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

You don't think Vidal is still read and admired by many academics?

Dunno. Not sure how much influence those who are reading/admiring him actually exert on anything meaningful though, so that could make it largely a moot point couldn't it?

He's not still considered one of the great intellectuals of the 20th century?

Only in the past tense would be my guess.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I would just say that among my peers very few probably even know who he is (which probably says more about them than Vidal).

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

If Kodos wants to arrest the Newsmax guy... he must want to send Gore Vidal to Gitmo.

Gore Vidal: ‘We’ll have a dictatorship soon in the US’ - Times Online

It's a pretty grey area that they both walk on. I don't think either crossed it, but they teeter right on that edge.

[Kodos]

Yeah, he sounds like an idiot. But at least he is not trying to incite an uprising against the President.



Oh, and for the record, I don't actually believe that other guy should really be arrested. But he is on the border of being a traitor / treason.

[flere-imsaho]

Well, at least not this President.

[RainMaker]

You do have to love the fact that the same people who support that uprising coup talk were the ones saying that those against the war were essentially traitors. Hypocrisy in politics never gets old.

[RainMaker]

Also, I don't follow WorldNetDaily much, but weren't they at one time considered at least a semi-respectable outlet? They had some big conservative commentators if I remember correctly. I don't know if they do or not, but they seem to have taken an Alex Jones turn to the conspiracy world a few years back. I'd put them on par with Prison Planet these days when I could have sworn they were a Huffington Post of sorts 5+ years ago.

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Well, at least not this President.

+1

[JediKooter]

Maybe I missed it, but, doesn't the this: http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org
sound like Stormfront?

Maybe it's just me putting two names that sound familar together, but, Cloudfront sounds like it could very well be associated with or a brother/sister organization or subsidiary to Stormfront.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Maybe I missed it, but, doesn't the this: http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org
sound like Stormfront?

Maybe it's just me putting two names that sound familar together, but, Cloudfront sounds like it could very well be associated with or a brother/sister organization or subsidiary to Stormfront.

Yeah, seems like an odd name. It's a content delivery system from Amazon though.

[RainMaker]

I am a little worried about the olympics coming here now. Glenn Beck stated that the Vancouver Olympics lost $1 billion.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I am a little worried about the olympics coming here now. Glenn Beck stated that the Vancouver Olympics lost $1 billion.

You mean the 2010 Olympics that haven't even happened yet?

2010 Winter Olympics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[RainMaker]

Details, details.

[SirFozzie]

you believe Glenn Beck?

More fool you. (yes, I know...)

[Arles]

I'm not sure where Beck gets his numbers, but there is some real cost issues involved the Vancouver Olympics. First, this:

THE CANADIAN PRESS - VICTORIA

The security budget for the 2010 Winter Olympics in British Columbia has been set at $900 million, more than five times the original $175 million estimate.

Federal and provincial officials released the budget late Thursday after more than a year of negotiations. The main holdup had been how much each jurisdiction would contribute to protecting and policing the Games.

The federal government will pay $647.5 million, as well as cover any unexpected costs. British Columbia's share is equivalent to $252.5 million, but only a fraction of that will actually be spent on security.

Instead, the two sides struck a deal that sees Ottawa pick up a greater portion of the security tab but give B.C. less for new buildings and roads over the next three years.

And then this:

VANCOUVER — Vancouver’s Olympic organizers informed us a few days ago they want the private sector to hand over 1,500 highly skilled workers to help them run the 2010 Winter Games.

As you might have guessed, the chances of big business lending the Olympics so many employees, whose salaries would all be paid by their companies, wouldn’t be good in the best of times. In a recession, it’s about as likely to happen as China’s hockey team winning the gold medal in 2010.

So where does the Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee — facing at least a $40-million budget shortfall from a sudden drought in private advertising and sponsorships — really intend to go to find that sort of people power on short notice? You guessed it, the taxpayer.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business...154/story.html

What worries me the most is how off target a lot of their initial cost projections were. Being 5-times below the security cost, not projecting the volunteer effort properly and falling tens of millions short on sponsorship is a not a good thing.

I'm guessing if Chicago gets the Olympics, the only people it will help with be the real estate owners near the development sites. The city itself will probably take a fairly big bath in terms of security/infrastructure/traffic.

[RainMaker]

Lot of security and infrastructure is done on a federal level. In fact, I believe the entire security bill is footed by the federal government.

No use discussing Vancouver, they lost $1 billion. It's been confirmed by Glenn Beck.