Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[cartman]

We are gonna need more chickens.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Why wouldn't I? Mizzou is a proud member of the B12 for one more year. After that, I have little reason to root for any other conference/team than the SEC/Mizzou.

Heaven help the SEC if these are examples of being a 'proud member of the conference'.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Remain calm. All is well. ALL IS WELL!!!!



OU president says Big 12 conference set for 2012 - College Football - Rivals.com

In related news, some interesting comments that might make OU rethink that 'wallflower' comment. According to Larry Scott, they were exactly that......

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Interesting how different the reporting on the WVU/UL situation is. KC Star is reporting that the hangup on the situation is yet another OU/UT fight. OU wants UL over WVU. Texas is saying just the opposite and neither want to budge.

Also rumors on Rivals that OU is threatening to jump to SEC over the matter.

Mizzou can't get out of this clusterf%#@ quick enough.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Boy, the Texas 'well-placed sources' have gone from wrong to laughably delusional at this point..........

Austin sports news and Longhorns | Statesman.com



Even if we go with what most would agree is relatively even terms on the athletic end, the loss of Mizzou with a replacement of West Virginia is a large downgrade to the Big 12 from an academic perspective. The move of Mizzou to the SEC would mean that the conference that generally has a weak academic reputation would have the same number of AAU universities as the Big 12 and a higher average academic rating than the Big 12.



How out of touch is this 'administrator'? MU's Deaton made it perfectly clear in his statements last Friday that any decision to move would mean MU would be playing elsewhere next year. These admins in the Big 12 seem to be taking the Dan Beebe approach to the situation. Just keep saying things that are contrary to what is actually happening in the hopes that it will somehow make those statements happen.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cartman

Heaven help the SEC if these are examples of being a 'proud member of the conference'.

Tune into Paul Finebaum some day.

[Solecismic]

That was one interesting side-note I noticed from recent conference switches. The Big XII and the SEC have reversed their respective academic rankings - and not by a small amount.

But that's nothing compared to what the Big East is doing, losing two of its stronger academic universities and replacing them with a host of smaller schools.

By and large, the difference between a mid-major and a major conference has been both academic and athletic. The latest round of moves is changing that landscape.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Continue to see B12 air its dirty laundry in public. This time, it's Neinas and OU disagreeing on how any further expansion should be handled.

Expansion still on minds of some in the Big 12 - CBSSports.com

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

But that's nothing compared to what the Big East is doing, losing two of its stronger academic universities and replacing them with a host of smaller schools.

Losing WVU surely helped the Big East back up the academic scale.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Continue to see B12 air its dirty laundry in public. This time, it's Neinas and OU disagreeing on how any further expansion should be handled.

Expansion still on minds of some in the Big 12 - CBSSports.com

No offense, but when will you be done shitting on the B12? I would think you would be more inclined to talk about the new conference your team is joining, rather than the old conference your team is leaving....

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

No offense, but when will you be done shitting on the B12? I would think you would be more inclined to talk about the new conference your team is joining, rather than the old conference your team is leaving....

No offense taken. My rooting interest may be leaving, but we're still in the heart of B12 country. My interest in the B12 and what happens won't end anytime soon. It's a part of Mizzou's history.

[Kodos]

On the other hand, you'd probably be hard-pressed to find anyone in the Big 12 who cares much about what happens to Mizzou.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

On the other hand, you'd probably be hard-pressed to find anyone in the Big 12 who cares much about what happens to Mizzou.

That's the standard line at this point.

Behind the scenes, there's a whole lot of piss and vinegar.

[cartman]

So, arguing about 10 or 12 teams make it out into the public, but wailing and gnashing of teeth about Mizzou leaving the conference stays behind closed doors.

Forgive me for thinking you are full of shit. Keep fucking that chicken!

[Toddzilla]

Why stop? I've been shitting on the Big East for years and it's great. Now WVU fans get to experience what they've been fighting for so long.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cartman

So, arguing about 10 or 12 teams make it out into the public, but wailing and gnashing of teeth about Mizzou leaving the conference stays behind closed doors.

Forgive me for thinking you are full of shit. Keep fucking that chicken!

At least we can settle it on the field tomorrow. Not saying I think Mizzou is a lock to win but a perfect opportunity to play out Mizzou and Texas final football game isn't it?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by panerd

At least we can settle it on the field tomorrow. Not saying I think Mizzou is a lock to win but a perfect opportunity to play out Mizzou and Texas final football game isn't it?

The outcome of a single game doesn't validate or refute anything posted.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cartman

The outcome of a single game doesn't validate or refute anything posted.

I will cringe if the fans start an SEC chant (especially long before the game is decided). Sadly I know its coming but its about as shallow as a USA chant. I would love to leave with a win against Texas though.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by panerd

I will cringe if the fans start an SEC chant (especially long before the game is decided). Sadly I know its coming but its about as shallow as a USA chant. I would love to leave with a win against Texas though.

SC is pumped up about Mizzou joining the SEC...Vandy is optimistic

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

No surprises here, but good read from the A&M president. He discusses how UT's courting of the Pac-XX in 2009 was the trigger to changes in the Big 12.

http://www.12thmanfoundation.com/mem...d-article.aspx

http://www.12thmanfoundation.com/mem...e-%282%29.aspx

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

SEC meeting today in Birmingham. Scheduling and new SEC Network are the main discussion points.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

No surprises here, but good read from the A&M president. He discusses how UT's courting of the Pac-XX in 2009 was the trigger to changes in the Big 12.

http://www.12thmanfoundation.com/mem...d-article.aspx

http://www.12thmanfoundation.com/mem...e-%282%29.aspx

I really liked reading that, thanks

[Young Drachma]

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars...nhall.html.csp

[General Mike]

Big East is fucking around by wasting the chance to invite Houston, SMU and UCF right before Gameday goes to Houston for UH-SMU.

[RedKingGold]

I hope whoever writes the oral history on this whole thing is a good investigator and writer. It should be fascinating.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I hope whoever writes the oral history on this whole thing is a good investigator and writer. It should be fascinating.

+1

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Big East is fucking around by wasting the chance to invite Houston, SMU and UCF right before Gameday goes to Houston for UH-SMU.

Houston's small chance to impress voters just took a hit, as Southern Miss lost to 2-8 UAB. They should be matching up for the conference championship. So. Miss had an outside chance of sneaking into the top 12 or so if they had kept winning.

[Swaggs]

The short flirtation between the Big East and BYU is DOA, apparently. Some speculation that San Diego State (!?!?!) might now be in talks. Big East leadership needs executed.

Hearing some murmurs that Rutgers is being tossed around for the Big 12. Would love to have a traditional rival join us and they are the last remaining original football member of the Big East still intact. I haven't heard any discussion of this, but it would be interesting to see Temple and Rutgers join up, as that would add two pretty populous states (and the Philadelphia market) to the Big 12.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by panerd

I would love to leave with a win against Texas though.

Still don't think the SEC was the best move for Missouri, but the win over Texas was sweet. One of my co-workers went to UT. Yes, I gave him shit.

[Scarecrow]

From a KU fan (in regards to the shirt below):

"Sigh.....Ok, I'm taking a really deep breath..... here goes....

Good for them. And damn it, I really mean it. Good for them. My gawd, you look at the friggin conference realignment sh!tstorm we've had to endure the last few years. Nebraska crying like little bitches about Texas. Missouri crying like little bitches about Texas. A&M crying like little bitches about Texas.

Well here's a novel idea. GO OUT AND FUGGIN BEAT THEM! It's possible! For real!

You know what's more fun than taking your ball and running home like a little bitch? Going out, competing, and fuggin winning!"


Darren Rovell on WhoSay

[Izulde]

I dislike Kansas and Texas as states both, but that shirt is full of win.

[sterlingice]

Hate to admit it, but I like the shirt

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

From a KU fan (in regards to the shirt below):

"Sigh.....Ok, I'm taking a really deep breath..... here goes....

Good for them. And damn it, I really mean it. Good for them. My gawd, you look at the friggin conference realignment sh!tstorm we've had to endure the last few years. Nebraska crying like little bitches about Texas. Missouri crying like little bitches about Texas. A&M crying like little bitches about Texas.

Well here's a novel idea. GO OUT AND FUGGIN BEAT THEM! It's possible! For real!

You know what's more fun than taking your ball and running home like a little bitch? Going out, competing, and fuggin winning!"


Darren Rovell on WhoSay

I do agree its a cool shirt but just beat the Texas teams from a KU fan is a little disingenuous. Mizzou beat 3 of the 4 and KSU beat 4 of the 4. Good for them. What is KU 0-4?

[Swaggs]

BYU article from McMurphy:Big East done pursuing BYU - CBSSports.com

Sounds like BYU is either entirely unreasonable or they don't think the Big East will have a BCS bid for long (or maybe they know that there will be no BCS beyond matching 1 and 2 for much longer):

Earlier Tuesday morning, sources previously had told CBSSports.com that unless BYU decided to relinquish its television rights for its home football games, the Cougars would not join the Big East. The Cougars would not do so.

"The Big East has moved on," a source said about the prospect of adding BYU.

The Cougars had been in discussions with the Big East for weeks about joining the league. In the earlier negotiations between BYU and the Big East, BYU did not have an issue with relinquishing its home television rights. That changed, however.

"They (BYU) are being extremely unreasonable all of a sudden," a source said Tuesday morning. "This is one reason why they did not get into the Big 12. Their general counsel (lawyers) is a piece of work.”

If they are not going to join the Big 12 and are not willing to work with the Big East for football only, I guess they are truly dedicated to being independent.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

BYU article from McMurphy:Big East done pursuing BYU - CBSSports.com

Sounds like BYU is either entirely unreasonable or they don't think the Big East will have a BCS bid for long (or maybe they know that there will be no BCS beyond matching 1 and 2 for much longer):



If they are not going to join the Big 12 and are not willing to work with the Big East for football only, I guess they are truly dedicated to being independent.

I read somewhere (have been from McMurphy) that the reason the Big 12 backed off was because BYU's administration was "difficult to work with".

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Hearing some murmurs that Rutgers is being tossed around for the Big 12. Would love to have a traditional rival join us and they are the last remaining original football member of the Big East still intact. I haven't heard any discussion of this, but it would be interesting to see Temple and Rutgers join up, as that would add two pretty populous states (and the Philadelphia market) to the Big 12.

Nobody in Philly gives a rat's ass about Temple football. LESS THAN NOBODY in Philly gives a rat's ass about Rutgers football (sorry, DC).

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Hate to admit it, but I like the shirt

SI

+1

[Logan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Nobody in Philly gives a rat's ass about Temple football. LESS THAN NOBODY in Philly gives a rat's ass about Rutgers football (sorry, DC).

I assume Swaggs is including South Jersey in the Philly market, in which case, you're wrong.

[cuervo72]

Well, I'm including any area that is serviced by the Philly Inquirer, KYW, WPVI, WCAU, WIP as far as radio goes. I don't think either program moves the needle for those outlets.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Well, I'm including any area that is serviced by the Philly Inquirer, KYW, WPVI, WCAU, WIP as far as radio goes. I don't think either program moves the needle for those outlets.

Again. Haven't heard anything about Temple and just hearing some early rumblings about Rutgers to the Big 12.

I was just thinking outside the box and, if you look at market penetration, the combination of having WVU, Temple, and Rutgers would give the Big 12 a toe-hold in Pennsylvania (WVU has decent enough viewership that the Pittsburgh Fox/Root affiliate shows all of our press conferences, shows non-ESPN/ABC football and basketball games, and has begun showing some different programs in the past year) and New Jersey. Two well-populated states (with relatively high in-state tuition costs) that might increase exposure and applications to some of the Big 12 (and particularly Texas) schools on the East Coast.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Two well-populated states (with relatively high in-state tuition costs)

I don't know how price compares to other states, but while PSU is $11k/yr in-state (which does seem rather high), options like Bloomsburg, Millersville, West Chester, Slippery Rock, Lock Haven, IUP, East Stroudsburg, Edinboro, Shippensburg, California U of P, Clarion, Kutztown, Mansfield are all in the $6600 - $7000/yr range.


(not really part of the main point, but since it was mentioned)

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Again. Haven't heard anything about Temple and just hearing some early rumblings about Rutgers to the Big 12.

I was just thinking outside the box and, if you look at market penetration, the combination of having WVU, Temple, and Rutgers would give the Big 12 a toe-hold in Pennsylvania (WVU has decent enough viewership that the Pittsburgh Fox/Root affiliate shows all of our press conferences, shows non-ESPN/ABC football and basketball games, and has begun showing some different programs in the past year) and New Jersey. Two well-populated states (with relatively high in-state tuition costs) that might increase exposure and applications to some of the Big 12 (and particularly Texas) schools on the East Coast.

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Again. Haven't heard anything about Temple and just hearing some early rumblings about Rutgers to the Big 12.

I was just thinking outside the box and, if you look at market penetration, the combination of having WVU, Temple, and Rutgers would give the Big 12 a toe-hold in Pennsylvania (WVU has decent enough viewership that the Pittsburgh Fox/Root affiliate shows all of our press conferences, shows non-ESPN/ABC football and basketball games, and has begun showing some different programs in the past year) and New Jersey. Two well-populated states (with relatively high in-state tuition costs) that might increase exposure and applications to some of the Big 12 (and particularly Texas) schools on the East Coast.

Rutgers and Temple don't get you Pennsylvania. Might nominally give you New York-ish exposure from Rutgers, but even that's extremely limited. Temple football has no ink, basketball a bit more so but not much more.

As a Jersey native fan only, I sincerely hope it never happens. It's a bad fit academically and regionally.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Rutgers and Temple don't get you Pennsylvania. Might nominally give you New York-ish exposure from Rutgers, but even that's extremely limited. Temple football has no ink, basketball a bit more so but not much more.

As a Jersey native fan only, I sincerely hope it never happens. It's a bad fit academically and regionally.

Rutgers and Temple would get televised in Philadelphia. West Virginia already has a deal with Fox/Root Sports Pittsburgh. Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are enough of Pennsylvania. PA is the 6th most populated state and New Jersey (forget about New York) is the 11th most populated state.

[molson]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Nobody in Philly gives a rat's ass about Temple football. LESS THAN NOBODY in Philly gives a rat's ass about Rutgers football (sorry, DC).

Maybe if Rutgers can get into a BCS game, it'll be a good test of what kind of numbers they deliver from the major east coast cities, and what kind of dent that makes in the national numbers.

I still don't get it, I still think college football, at the big time level, is really a national game now, but as long as these discussions are driven by market, it's something conferences will be watching.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Rutgers and Temple would get televised in Philadelphia.

Which only grows your potential audience, not your audience. And only the chronically (perhaps terminally) stupid pay rates based on potential.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Rutgers and Temple would get televised in Philadelphia. West Virginia already has a deal with Fox/Root Sports Pittsburgh. Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are enough of Pennsylvania. PA is the 6th most populated state and New Jersey (forget about New York) is the 11th most populated state.

Bah, Rutgers and Temple are televised now in Philadelphia. There wouldn't be much difference or interest if they got in the same conference.

Originally Posted by molson

I still don't get it, I still think college football, at the big time level, is really a national game now, but as long as these discussions are driven by market, it's something conferences will be watching.

I think you overestimate Northeasteastern population's interest in college football, at least in Pennsylvania. I've spent my whole life in Pennsylvania, growing up in Northeast (Wilkes-Barre/Scranton) and spending some time in the Lehigh Valley and now live in suburban Philadelphia. In Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, the ONLY interest in college football was Penn State or Notre Dame. On that note high school football moved the meter much more than either of those two teams. Neither Temple nor Rutgers was ever mentioned in local media. The only time Syracuse got mentioned was during the Gerry McNamara days because he was from Scranton.

Even now, I live on the Main Line (think Villanova) and would bet that there is more local interest in high school lacrosse and soccer games than Temple or Rutgers football games. I doubt it's a suburban thing either, as I've never seen Center City fired up about anything college related.

It may be different in Pittsburgh, but I doubt that seeing Pittsburgh's attendance over the past thirty or so years. In short, there's nothing which would make believe that the Northeast is a viable ground for college football sport; most cities up here are too local sports or pro sports centric.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Bah, Rutgers and Temple are televised now in Philadelphia. There wouldn't be much difference or interest if they got in the same conference.

I think you overestimate Northeasteastern population's interest in college football, at least in Pennsylvania. I've spent my whole life in Pennsylvania, growing up in Northeast (Wilkes-Barre/Scranton) and spending some time in the Lehigh Valley and now live in suburban Philadelphia. In Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, the ONLY interest in college football was Penn State or Notre Dame. On that note high school football moved the meter much more than either of those two teams. Neither Temple nor Rutgers was ever mentioned in local media. The only time Syracuse got mentioned was during the Gerry McNamara days because he was from Scranton.

Even now, I live on the Main Line (think Villanova) and would bet that there is more local interest in high school lacrosse and soccer games than Temple or Rutgers football games. I doubt it's a suburban thing either, as I've never seen Center City fired up about anything college related.

It may be different in Pittsburgh, but I doubt that seeing Pittsburgh's attendance over the past thirty or so years. In short, there's nothing which would make believe that the Northeast is a viable ground for college football sport; most cities up here are too local sports or pro sports centric.

Ya, that was my point, though coming from a different angle, is that national presence is really all that matters - I'm not sure there are any college football programs that are big national ratings draws BECAUSE they deliver a specific media market. NYC has the extra strike against it that its so diverse, they don't even draw great ratings for their pro sports, let alone college football. NYC is not going to help the Orange bowl get a better rating for the Orange Bowl with Rutgers, UConn, or Syracuse. It might marginally help Orange Bowl ratings IN NYC, but that's not going to be enough to sway the national ratings over real national programs like Texas, LSU, Alabama, etc.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Some nutty stuff over at A&M. The A&M CFO was outed for posting criticisms of the university president under an anonymous handle on a fan message board.

Aggies’ athletics CFO admits to calling A&M president ‘putz’ | Aggies | a mySA.com blog

[digamma]

Gates had a history of posting on message boards when he was at aTm.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Never dreamed that Mizzou's move would be legitimized this soon. New post from TTRaider on Tigerboard. He hasn't posted since his post saying Mizzou to the SEC was a done deal a few weeks before it happened.....

Just a heads up.......

Mondo (TX state rep) tells me that Deloss Dodds has been chatting with the Pac 12 about a UT move in 2013. Pac 12 will cover exit fees and work with espn. Details coming soon. I just thought you might want to appreciate even more, if that's possible, your move to the SEC.

Chip, total DB moron, tool of Dodds, etc., will start blabbing of this in Februray or March, provided things have advanced.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Never dreamed that Mizzou's move would be legitimized this soon.

Regardless of past history, once A&M and Mizzou left, did anyone realistically think the Big-12 had a shot at surviving? They are being turned down by replacements. This does not "legitimize" Mizzou's move, it's a natural result of the conference not holding it together. Now, the flirtations last year with the Pac-12 were certainly reason enough for A&M and Mizzou to consider the moves they made this year, agreed, but don't use what happened AFTER they signed up to leave as any sort of backing for them having made the right move, because if they stuck around this may well not have happened.

[molson]

Haven't heard anything about the Big East expansion since those reports a month or two ago that it was "days away". You'd think there'd be a little more urgency when you have 5 football teams going forward. I guess the proposed incoming teams realize they have all the leverage.

[Swaggs]

Who knows if it is enforceable, but it is my understanding that the remaining members of the Big 12 signed away their television rights to the conference for the next six seasons. That, in essence, means that if anyone leaves, the money from any home, televised game would go to the Big 12. The Big Ten has a similar deal in place through something like 2028. It is my guess that the current ten members of the Big 12 stick together for at least the next six years.

I think the next move will be to add Louisville and Rutgers or Cincinnati (or see if they can get BYU for football only and Notre Dame for other sports). If the Notre Dame thing happens, I think that will be the next source of contention, as Texas may want to try something similar.

As for the Big East, I think they could have UCF, SMU, and Houston in the fold at any time, but the Western conference initiatives have failed (no BYU, probably no Boise State or Air Force). If they hold Pitt, Syracuse, and possibly WVU (although our guys think we play in the Big 12 next season) and add those three, that gives them a 10 or 11 team conference for 2012 and will let them re-assess when the future of the BCS becomes more clear. If Louisville and another team leave, it will be hard to keep the football conference together and you might end up seeing UConn and Cincy or Rutgers in the MAC for football and Big East for other sports and USF to CUSA.