2016-2017 College Basketball Thread

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Those were two pretty awesome college players I'd be proud to call alums. Sullinger's been a disappointment with his weight, but has probably still outproduced the average #21 pick, and Turner in particular has always seemed like a great guy who maximized his talent, and it's not his fault (or the university's) he was massively overpaid.

One is a former #2 draft pick who is a noted NBA punchline. The other is a former #2 overall recruit who couldn't go one-and-done and now at age 24 appears to be on his way out of the league. An aspiring top-15 program, particularly one so close to places like Lexington, Louisville, and East Lansing, is going to have a hard time selling recruits (who say things like "when I was young I really looked up to Andrew Wiggins") on that kind of recent track record.

[Balldog]

I've heard Matta wasn't well received in AAU circles of late due to not playing freshmen significant minutes. There was a stretch where it seemed like we only had a 6-man rotation for about 3 years. Seemed like after that he was never able to get the key recruits anymore.

I'm sure the health issue was a factor as well.

Chris Jent is interviewing for the job, could be interesting. They want a coach in place this week so he might just get it.


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[hollmt]

Originally Posted by Balldog

I've heard Matta wasn't well received in AAU circles of late due to not playing freshmen significant minutes. There was a stretch where it seemed like we only had a 6-man rotation for about 3 years. Seemed like after that he was never able to get the key recruits anymore.

I'm sure the health issue was a factor as well.

Chris Jent is interviewing for the job, could be interesting. They want a coach in place this week so he might just get it.


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I have a feeling this is going to be a clusterfuck.
Shit the bed on firing Matta so late and now rushing to fill a spot by end of week and just grab whatever? Chris Jent is ok and I liked him in the Jimmy Jackson days, but he has zero business coaching at OSU. None.

Unless they give him a 1 yr contract so that next year they can do it properly and look for a proper coach. That is the only situation I would accept him in that position. He needs to be a Head Coach someplace besides the Bakersfield Jam for awhile before getting the gig at OSU.

They will screw this up badly.

[Balldog]

Greg McDermott and Fred Hoiberg in the mix. I would be ok with either, but would prefer Hoiberg. Sounds like McDermott is more likely though...


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[CU Tiger]

Watch out for Frank Martin....

[RainMaker]

As a Bulls fan I hope it's Fred Hoiberg.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by nol

One is a former #2 draft pick who is a noted NBA punchline. The other is a former #2 overall recruit who couldn't go one-and-done and now at age 24 appears to be on his way out of the league. An aspiring top-15 program, particularly one so close to places like Lexington, Louisville, and East Lansing, is going to have a hard time selling recruits (who say things like "when I was young I really looked up to Andrew Wiggins") on that kind of recent track record.

If you were a borderline top 50 recruit who is now "an NBA punchline" because you make $18 million a year instead of $12 million I think we'd all accept that tradeoff. Sully has been disappointing post year 2, but idk how you tag Ohio State with his inability to keep his weight in check subsequently. Either way (much as I love T-Roze), both have been better NBA players than any Louisville product this century, and Draymond aside, better NBA players than any Michigan State alum. (ok, Gary Harris is probably equal to Sullinger.) ... is your argument that Deyonta Davis' and Montrezl Harrell's alma mater's did a better job showcasing them & preparing them for the NBA?

[nol]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

If you were a borderline top 50 recruit who is now "an NBA punchline" because you make $18 million a year instead of $12 million I think we'd all accept that tradeoff. Sully has been disappointing post year 2, but idk how you tag Ohio State with his inability to keep his weight in check subsequently. Either way (much as I love T-Roze), both have been better NBA players than any Louisville product this century, and Draymond aside, better NBA players than any Michigan State alum. (ok, Gary Harris is probably equal to Sullinger.) ... is your argument that Deyonta Davis' and Montrezl Harrell's alma mater's did a better job showcasing them & preparing them for the NBA?

"Aside from the top-ten player in the league who plays for the best team in history, Michigan State has no recent NBA success stories they can sell to recruits." Besides that laughable statement, it's pretty obvious that MSU and Louisville have been much more successful at the college level than OSU and have the kind of program where you don't need to be an undefeated national champion to get as much attention as the football team. I'm going to ask you politely to stop trolling me.

[Atocep]

Huggins being reported as having interest in the OSU job is funny.

Hoiberg would be a good hire. The Bulls job is horrible given the current roster situation and I don't think many fans would be sad to see him go.

[Logan]

I'm surprised Geoff McDermott passed.

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm surprised Geoff McDermott passed.

conflicting reports on if he was actually even offered (last i checked anyway).

im glad he passed though (or stated he was staying put at creighton). would feel like an emergency hire and one i dont really want.

we need a young up and coming coach, not a coach OLDER than matta (granted, one that likely can at least walk). hiring someone this week just for the sake of hiring them and not getting a true fit is a slippery slope.

the longer this goes on, the more likely jent gets the nod or we get a coach that just isnt right. maybe i will be surprised, but i dont think i will be.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by hollmt

conflicting reports on if he was actually even offered (last i checked anyway).

im glad he passed though (or stated he was staying put at creighton). would feel like an emergency hire and one i dont really want.

Most people don't get formally offered anymore.

[Kodos]

Big Ten-ACC challenge schedule has been announced. IU hosts Duke. Hope Coach Miller can get us up to speed fast this fall.

View the full list of 2017 Big Ten-ACC Challenge college...

Boston College at Nebraska
Clemson at Ohio State
Duke at Indiana
Florida State at Rutgers
Illinois at Wake Forest
Iowa at Virginia Tech
Louisville at Purdue
Maryland at Syracuse
Miami at Minnesota
Michigan at North Carolina
Northwestern at Georgia Tech
Notre Dame at Michigan State
Penn State at NC State
Wisconsin at Virginia

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by Logan

Most people don't get formally offered anymore.

formal/informal, doesnt matter to me. not really the point i was getting at.
the hire would have been a bad one imo.

[Scarecrow]

Ohio State's new head coach...

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Ohio State's new head coach...

while this is definitely better than mcdermott i still feel as if it was a panic move.
holtmann is a good recruiter from my understanding, so hopefully he can keep that up but im not entirely sure this was the best move.
at least there is osu football.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by hollmt

while this is definitely better than mcdermott i still feel as if it was a panic move.
holtmann is a good recruiter from my understanding, so hopefully he can keep that up but im not entirely sure this was the best move.
at least there is osu football.

Getting an 8 year contract is probably a good indication that it was a (surprisingly) tough job to fill.

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by Logan

Getting an 8 year contract is probably a good indication that it was a (surprisingly) tough job to fill.

yeah.
at least if it doesnt pan out in a couple/few years they can bail on him. but i will admit that when they initially hired matta years ago i wasnt sold on him and he turned out well for awhile. so maybe i will be pleasantly surprised.
i really just wish osu would have done this right 2-3 months ago or at the least just dealt w/ matta for another year and do it right next year instead of go into panic mode.

[panerd]

This is by no means a "hot take" and not an original thought either but what a crock of shit the NCAA is running when Ohio State can fire their coach in June and Holtmann can leave his players hanging in June and there isn't shit the players can do about it on either team.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

This is by no means a "hot take" and not an original thought either but what a crock of shit the NCAA is running when Ohio State can fire their coach in June and Holtmann can leave his players hanging in June and there isn't shit the players can do about it on either team.

Sorry, but it IS true to the core of the student-athlete construct.

They're (ostensibly) there to be students of University X, not to play for Coach Y.

Most are there for pay - that schoolin' don't come cheaply after all - and under agreements they signed willingly.

My sympathy is pretty much next to zero for their supposed plight.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Sorry, but it IS true to the core of the student-athlete construct.

They're (ostensibly) there to be students of University X, not to play for Coach Y.

Most are there for pay - that schoolin' don't come cheaply after all - and under agreements they signed willingly.

My sympathy is pretty much next to zero for their supposed plight.

When the NBA required an age of 19 they basically admitted the NCAA is their minor league system. I might even agree with you on some obscure scholarship sport but college basketball (and to a lessor degree college football) are minor league systems. If a coach can leave in June so should a player.

[muns]

Originally Posted by panerd

This is by no means a "hot take" and not an original thought either but what a crock of shit the NCAA is running when Ohio State can fire their coach in June and Holtmann can leave his players hanging in June and there isn't shit the players can do about it on either team.

I understand what you are getting at but I don't understand why sports somehow makes it any different than what happens in other places.

Like when a college president leaves to take over another college presidency and leaves his former post hanging, or when my boss leaves in the middle of the year and I have to do 2 jobs for 6 months until we can hire someone else that is a good fit.

Its life, other opportunities occur everywhere, not just in sports. Life in general is a business, and sports is one too. I can't do anything about my situation, and neither can a lot of others so why are the athletes any different?

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by muns

I understand what you are getting at but I don't understand why sports somehow makes it any different than what happens in other places.

Like when a college president leaves to take over another college presidency and leaves his former post hanging, or when my boss leaves in the middle of the year and I have to do 2 jobs for 6 months until we can hire someone else that is a good fit.

Its life, other opportunities occur everywhere, not just in sports. Life in general is a business, and sports is one too. I can't do anything about my situation, and neither can a lot of others so why are the athletes any different?

Following that analogy, if your boss leaves and you have that extra work, you have the option of moving on to another job without penalty. You can leave right away or wait for the next boss to be hired, but you can leave if you choose. College athletes should be able to do the same thing.

And spinning in Jon's comment above with a similar analogy, when you sign a contract with a company, you are not signing based on who your boss is, even if his team recruited you. When that management team is let go or moves on, you are free to move on to another company if you choose. You don't have to stay for a couple of years. College athletes should be able to move on if their coach moves on.

[muns]

Originally Posted by rjolley

Following that analogy, if your boss leaves and you have that extra work, you have the option of moving on to another job without penalty. You can leave right away or wait for the next boss to be hired, but you can leave if you choose. College athletes should be able to do the same thing.

And spinning in Jon's comment above with a similar analogy, when you sign a contract with a company, you are not signing based on who your boss is, even if his team recruited you. When that management team is let go or moves on, you are free to move on to another company if you choose. You don't have to stay for a couple of years. College athletes should be able to move on if their coach moves on.

Exactly, I could have left and didn't. Did I miss something where a kid couldn't transfer out?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by muns

Exactly, I could have left and didn't. Did I miss something where a kid couldn't transfer out?

They can transfer out, with penalty (sitting out)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rjolley

When that management team is let go or moves on, you are free to move on to another company if you choose. You don't have to stay for a couple of years.

Depends upon the terms of the contract you agreed to.

Don't like it, don't sign it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

If a coach can leave in June so should a player.

If they want that sort of deal then they're free to head overseas and find it. Nobody holds a gun to any player's head and makes them agree to anything.

The "oh the poor athlete" stuff is utter & complete bullshit afaic.

[Logan]

NBA Draft prospect Terrance Ferguson: One-and-done rips off players | Charlotte Observer

[Kodos]

NCAA suspends Rick Pitino five games, Louisville’s 2013 title in jeopardy

I wonder what will happen with UNC, whose infractions were worse.

[cartman]

Just leaving this here without comment.

Man arrested after driving car onto Missouri basketball court

[Logan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Just leaving this here without comment.

Man arrested after driving car onto Missouri basketball court

So that's what MBBF has been doing with his time away from here.

/cartman's comment

[nol]

Originally Posted by cartman

Wow, Shaka Smart convinced Mohamed Bamba to come to Texas. That's a nice get to pry him away from Calipari.

Could end up being quite the saga: Mohamed Bamba's brother says the Texas 5 star freshman accepted cash and gifts

tl;dr - it doesn't seem like it will lead to eligibility issues, but Bamba has a scumbag brother who wanted to be his agent and tried ratting him out to the NCAA once it seemed like that wasn't going to be the case.

[Neuqua]

I can't imagine how rotten of a person you must be to try to sabotage your brother like that.

[Eaglesfan27]

USC is on a roll with recruiting and has their best class in a very long time. They have gotten their first 5 star since Demar DeRozan in Taeshon Cherry this week. Today, they added top 30 SG Kevin Porter, JR. They also have 4 star F J'Raan Brooks.

[nol]

I feel like Marvin Bagley III may pull an Andre Drummond by reclassifying and enrolling in college right before the season starts. He's simply too good to be two years away from being able to play in the NBA.

[MrBug708]

That would be just fine with me

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

USC is on a roll with recruiting and has their best class in a very long time. They have gotten their first 5 star since Demar DeRozan in Taeshon Cherry this week. Today, they added top 30 SG Kevin Porter, JR. They also have 4 star F J'Raan Brooks.

Alford is the best thing to happen to SC

[cartman]

Originally Posted by nol

Could end up being quite the saga: Mohamed Bamba's brother says the Texas 5 star freshman accepted cash and gifts

tl;dr - it doesn't seem like it will lead to eligibility issues, but Bamba has a scumbag brother who wanted to be his agent and tried ratting him out to the NCAA once it seemed like that wasn't going to be the case.

NCAA cleared Bamba. Said the relationship and any benefits given pre-dated his recruitment, and were not specific nor unique to Bamba.

"Based on the information provided, the relationship between [Bamba] and Mr. Love meets the 6/6/2000 pre-existing relationship test. In this case, the relationship between [Bamba] and Mr. Love developed when [Bamba] was in 4th grade through an after school mentoring program. Although the mentoring program had both an academic and athletics purpose, their relationship was not established based on [Bamba's] ability or reputation as an athlete. Further, the pattern of communication between [Bamba] and Mr. Love has been continuous and the benefits provided to [Bamba] have been consistent since the establishment of their relationship. In addition, Mr. Love has a consistent, established pattern of providing comparable benefits to other individuals (and family of individuals) who were also a part of the mentoring program and most of which are pursuing nonathletic career paths/opportunities. Therefore, based on the information provided, the benefits provided to [Bamba] by Mr. Love are not in violation of NCAA amateurism rules. Further, any future benefits provided to [Bamba] by Mr. Love are permissible provided the pattern of such benefits remain consistent. Finally, there is no evidence in the facts provided that Mr. Love meets the definition of an agent for purposes of NCAA rules."

[Kodos]

Three 4-star commits for Indiana today. Keep it up, Archie!

247Sports

[hollmt]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Three 4-star commits for Indiana today. Keep it up, Archie!

247Sports

yeah....way to go, archie....

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by hollmt

yeah....way to go, archie....

Sorry. I know it sucks when your coach of the future gets nabbed right before your team fires its lame-duck coach. I'm just happy to be on the good end this time. Very happy about both of IU's new coaches (Miller in b-ball and Allen in football). Really excited for the new seasons to start.

[Logan]

Access Denied

There will be a press conference today at noon to announce charges of fraud and corruption in college basketball. Federal criminal charges have been brought against ten people, including four college basketball coaches, as well as managers, financial advisors, and representatives of a major international sportswear company. The press conference will be livestreamed on Facebook @USAOSDNY

Head of sports marketing at Adidas named. An Oklahoma State and an Auburn assistant already named. Add Tony Bland of USC and Emanuel Richardson of Arizona.

[MrBug708]

This would explain the bizarre recruiting boost USC and Arizona had over the past couple of years

[CrescentMoonie]

Maybe a little more detail here. It's going to be an interesting press conference, for sure.

NCAA basketball coaches among 10 charged with fraud and corruption

[Atocep]

Basketball recruiting is the dirtiest business there is. Significant money is changing hands somewhere for nearly every 5 star recruit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That ain't just any ol' "Auburn assistant", it's reportedly Chuck Person, 1987 NBA Rookie of the Year, 2x All-American, 3x All-Conference.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Basketball recruiting is the dirtiest business there is. Significant money is changing hands somewhere for nearly every 5 star recruit.

7-7 football isn't far behind

[molson]

The timing and descriptions of universities involved indicate that Louisville paid $100k for Brian Bowen. And they're already on probation. And there's also a high school player expected to graduate in 2019 who was upset about late payments from Louisville. Another player got a $150k offer from Miami. I love how the documents mysteriously identity that university only as "University 7", but note that it's a "private research University in Florida with 16,000 students." Somebody already designed a T-shirt

https://imgur.com/a/eEBJk

At least that cash went to a player and his family. To me, the other stuff is worse - assistant coaches taking money to funnel players to shady agents and "advisers". And there's implications for the schools beyond just paying players. All these licensing deals with apparel companies are part of the racket - Adidas and co. get those deals, the coaches steer the players to Adidas and get kickbacks, etc. The government presented helpful flowcharts about how this works.

And all of this stems from the bizarre American institution of big-time college sports. A billion-dollar industry where the most important employees aren't allowed to make money.

Edit: The NCAA always struggles to enforce rules because don't actually have any power to subpoena. But I suppose they can use anything uncovered by the feds and made public. It seems like there would be enough here that they'll really have to carefully weight how much to throw their weight around, lest they go to far and get kicked to the curb by the big schools.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

7-7 football isn't far behind

Not even in the same stratosphere.
Not close.

College Basketball is an absolute cesspool. Blatant, open, bid wars.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Not even in the same stratosphere.
Not close.

College Basketball is an absolute cesspool. Blatant, open, bid wars.

Maybe the south is immune to it, but 7 on 7 is essentially there, just not as estalished