Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

More tweets.

Creative.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Pretty in-depth look at the PS4 vs. X1 vs. PC versions of Battlefield 4. PC obviously the best on a monster rig, but looks like the console versions are closing the gap quite a bit.

Face-Off Preview: Battlefield 4 next-gen vs. PC • Face offs • Eurogamer.net

[cartman]

Feedback on the upcoming Forza 5, with comments from an actual race car driver that tried it out:

Forza Motorsport 5 first drive, plus bonus pro racing driver content | Ars Technica

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just as a sidenote, I've been so busy at work that I haven't even noticed how quickly the PS4 release has come up. Getting pretty excited to give the new hardware a test drive. Looks like the Gamestop where I reserved it is doing a midnight release, so I'll be able to give it a spin right away. Going to make sure to not work that next Wednesday either.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Just as a sidenote, I've been so busy at work that I haven't even noticed how quickly the PS4 release has come up. Getting pretty excited to give the new hardware a test drive. Looks like the Gamestop where I reserved it is doing a midnight release, so I'll be able to give it a spin right away. Going to make sure to not work that next Wednesday either.

[spleen1015]

ROFL

[MizzouRah]

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Good summary of the graphics discussion.

About Those Xbox One Vs. PS4 Graphics Rumors...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Great deal leaked for those who are getting a PS4 at launch. Buy 2, Get 1 Free at Target. Flyer is for week of November 10-16.

[cartman]

Compensating for something with the size of the pic?

[sterlingice]

/spin on/
Clearly Sony has no good launch games if they have to do a B2G1 free sale at launch
/spin off/

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Compensating for something with the size of the pic?

The PS4 is HUGE.

[SackAttack]

Same thing - the B2G1 - happened at Target for the Vita launch, though. The launch library for neither system was terribly impressive, so it was a good play; yeah, you're giving away a game, but you're getting people to spend $40-60 on a second game they wouldn't otherwise have bought.

Also, I believe this particular B2G1 is on ALL software, so whatever's the shelf, go nuts.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Same thing - the B2G1 - happened at Target for the Vita launch, though. The launch library for neither system was terribly impressive, so it was a good play; yeah, you're giving away a game, but you're getting people to spend $40-60 on a second game they wouldn't otherwise have bought.

Also, I believe this particular B2G1 is on ALL software, so whatever's the shelf, go nuts.

Yep, I took advantage of it when the Vita was released. As long as you get there by opening, usually plenty of games to choose from. Honestly wasn't the nuts crowd like more tech-oriented stores either.

[SackAttack]

Way different scenarios though. Vita didn't have nearly the launch enthusiasm of a regular console launch, for one.

For another, I'd expect Target to have most of the PS4 launch library, which wasn't true for Vita; most stores had 4-6 distinct titles in for Vita.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Unbelievable. Even the EA-licensed developers are taking shots at EA for their money-grab agreements.

Respawn wasn't in control of the Microsoft exclusivity deal for Titanfall – that was all EA, Zampella said. "Always MS exclusive at launch, great partner and focus is good for a startup," he tweeted. "EA made a deal for the rest, we only found out recently =(."

Zampella: 'Of course' Respawn will have games on PS4, just not Titanfall | Joystiq

[Ryan S]

It seems odd that a company like EA would go for an all of life exclusive deal rather than a more limited exclusive deal. They may make plenty of money up front from Microsoft's payment, but if you completely shut out PS4 owners you could make less money in the long run.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

More confirmation of the definition differences between the two consoles. COD: Ghosts will be upscaled from 720p on the Xbox One and will be native 1080p on PS4. Really surprised that they announced this a couple weeks before launch as opposed to hiding it under the rug until we got a bit closer to launch.

TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

It seems odd that a company like EA would go for an all of life exclusive deal rather than a more limited exclusive deal. They may make plenty of money up front from Microsoft's payment, but if you completely shut out PS4 owners you could make less money in the long run.

It does seem like a strange decision for a series that looks like it is supposed to be a CoD killer.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

More confirmation of the definition differences between the two consoles. COD: Ghosts will be upscaled from 720p on the Xbox One and will be native 1080p on PS4. Really surprised that they announced this a couple weeks before launch as opposed to hiding it under the rug until we got a bit closer to launch.

TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter

The guy says it looks great on both.. so what's the issue?

[gstelmack]

The NFL on FOX looks much worse than on CBS, because FOX is only 720 while CBS is 1080!

(intentionally ignoring the 720p vs 1080i issue, because that's how we present these arguments here...)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

PS+ free games announced for PS3, Vita, and two new ones for PS4 in November. Pretty good offerings.

PS Plus delivers Dragon's Dogma, Soul Sacrifice, free PS4 games in November | Joystiq

[SackAttack]

Games With Gold November offerings are pretty LOL: A World With Keflings and Iron Brigade.

I'm glad they extended the program, because if it had ended on that note...wow.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

The guy says it looks great on both.. so what's the issue?

It's a huge issue. There were complaints when the last generation of consoles had a lot of games that didn't reach 1080p resolution and that was several years ago. This generation should have nothing less than 1080p given the processing power available. To see anything less than 1080p on some of these 'blockbuster' games is not good. I'd note that the PS4 has an issue on Battlefield 4 as well. It is a 900p game upscaled to 1080p. Not as bad as the X1 situation, but still not good.

Now, we'll hope that this is just a release thing where these two developers got a bit lazy with their release, pushing it out on launch rather than making sure to refine it as they should. Perhaps just a lack of understanding of handling the new systems. I sure hope that's the case. In the end, if you're spending $400 or $500 for one of these consoles at this point, it should be putting out 1080p.

[cartman]

I agree with the points made in this Op-Ed:

Op-ed: Why I’m not too worked up about the next-gen console resolution wars | Ars Technica

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by cartman

I agree with the points made in this Op-Ed:

Op-ed: Why I’m not too worked up about the next-gen console resolution wars | Ars Technica

Same here and the average buyer won't be aware of the differences.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by cartman

I agree with the points made in this Op-Ed:

Op-ed: Why I’m not too worked up about the next-gen console resolution wars | Ars Technica

If you're the kind of person who isn't happy unless his gaming rig generates the highest raw benchmark numbers, the PS4 seems to be your console of choice for the time being (though, really, a high-end PC still wins out on this score). If you're the kind of person who values actual gameplay, though, choose your next console based on the games. You can feel secure in the knowledge that, graphically, there doesn't seem to be much practical, noticeable difference in performance.

Pretty much sums it up. Both consoles will be very close in terms of graphics and fps unless you want to spit out numbers that don't mean squat to the general gamer.

Make your console choice on the games.. seems pretty straightforward to me.

I'm still waiting at least a few months once the release day smoke clears to see what console suits me best. I was XB1 just because how much we use the x360 over the ps3.. but the more I read about games like The Order 1886.. the more I start leaning towards the ps4.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

I agree with the points made in this Op-Ed:

Op-ed: Why I’m not too worked up about the next-gen console resolution wars | Ars Technica

But if you're in the camp with this writer, you're likely one of the people that isn't even upgrading to the next-gen anyway (see MizzouRah's response as a perfect example). You're one of the people who is more than happy with the current gen stuff being produced because it's got a minimum of 720p and produces good gameplay (and I'd note that there's clearly nothing wrong with that). You're the average buyer that EF27 is talking about and you're not buying in 2013.

If you're like me and these companies are asking you to shell out $400-500 on a new next-gen console, you expect an advance over the previous console especially on the big titles since the previous console had 1080p. Sony at least has some in-house games that meet that expectation. But Ryse, COD, and BF4 are all coming up short and that's simply not acceptable.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If you're like me and these companies are asking you to shell out $400-500 on a new next-gen console, you expect an advance over the previous console especially on the big titles since the previous console had 1080p. Sony at least has some in-house games that meet that expectation. But Ryse, COD, and BF4 are all coming up short and that's simply not acceptable.

So when the titles on the next gen do get to 1080p, what exactly is the big advance over current gen?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

So when the titles on the next gen do get to 1080p, what exactly is the big advance over current gen?

The difference is that you're going to have a system that not only can produce 1080p visuals, but can do it at a higher frame rate than anything we've had on previous generations. Many of the effects used to create fantastic light effects in the games won't slow the frame rate to a crawl like it would have in previous generations. Pop-ins and reduced detail at long distances will be greatly reduced as they won't tax the engine nearly as much. The whole reason that these games aren't native to 1080p is because they aren't optimized at this point to produce a good game engine experience at that level of detail. That's not good and should be a red flag that these developers are getting lazy with their work or their companies are pushing out releases and sacrificing quality as a result.

It should be mentioned that the PS4 is planned to support 2140p during its console cycle, though it remains to be seen when that will be an option. But that's another story and a whole lot of therapy.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Pretty much sums it up. Both consoles will be very close in terms of graphics and fps unless you want to spit out numbers that don't mean squat to the general gamer.

Make your console choice on the games.. seems pretty straightforward to me.

I'm still waiting at least a few months once the release day smoke clears to see what console suits me best. I was XB1 just because how much we use the x360 over the ps3.. but the more I read about games like The Order 1886.. the more I start leaning towards the ps4.

I'm generally in the same boat in that I care more about how the games play than how they look. Where the horsepower difference concerns me is almost entirely optimization.

Like, for example - and yeah, this is PRspeak - Respawn were saying early on that Titanfall would only be possible on the Xbox One because of the dedicated servers and all that jazz. Which, heh, no. Especially since always-on is no longer a thing on that console (it'll be BETTER when you're online, maybe? I guess? But certainly playable if you aren't), but that's still an assertion they're making.

If you say "Okay, let's give them credence there," it's not inconceivable to think that if you design a game on PS4, where you can use most of the 8 GB of RAM, you're looking at a very different Xbox One experience in a port unless you hold the PS4 version back.

It's kind of a similar argument to what was going on with textures on PS3/360, where the difference in storage capacity on the optical medium meant that Xbox 360 titles occasionally shipped on multiple discs (LA Noire, FFXIII, FFXIII-2, GTAV come to mind) where they only needed one on the PS3.

Doable, but that doesn't mean you're getting the same experience.

Kind of the same thing here. For games exclusive to one console or the other, it's really going to be a matter of "who gives a damn?" because those games are going to be optimized to each system's capabilities. It's the crossover stuff that could be problematic if the allegations of Xbox One being comparatively underpowered end up being more than just a talking point.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The difference is that you're going to have a system that not only can produce 1080p visuals, but can do it at a higher frame rate than anything we've had on previous generations. Many of the effects used to create fantastic light effects in the games won't slow the frame rate to a crawl like it would have in previous generations. Pop-ins and reduced detail at long distances will be greatly reduced as they won't tax the engine nearly as much. The whole reason that these games aren't native to 1080p is because they aren't optimized at this point to produce a good game engine experience at that level of detail. That's not good and should be a red flag that these developers are getting lazy with their work or their companies are pushing out releases and sacrificing quality as a result.

It should be mentioned that the PS4 is planned to support 2140p during its console cycle, though it remains to be seen when that will be an option. But that's another story and a whole lot of therapy.

Or maybe they realized instead of wasting compute cycles on eye candy at levels barely detectable to the naked eye, they are actually improving game play. None of the things you mentioned are exclusive to 1080p.

Edit: meaning taking the next gen graphics features, you can show someone the game running at 720p, 900p, and 1080p, and they aren't going to be able to tell you what resolution that game was running. Especially when 720p and 900p are upscaled 1080p.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I'm generally in the same boat in that I care more about how the games play than how they look. Where the horsepower difference concerns me is almost entirely optimization.

Like, for example - and yeah, this is PRspeak - Respawn were saying early on that Titanfall would only be possible on the Xbox One because of the dedicated servers and all that jazz. Which, heh, no. Especially since always-on is no longer a thing on that console (it'll be BETTER when you're online, maybe? I guess? But certainly playable if you aren't), but that's still an assertion they're making.

If you say "Okay, let's give them credence there," it's not inconceivable to think that if you design a game on PS4, where you can use most of the 8 GB of RAM, you're looking at a very different Xbox One experience in a port unless you hold the PS4 version back.

It's kind of a similar argument to what was going on with textures on PS3/360, where the difference in storage capacity on the optical medium meant that Xbox 360 titles occasionally shipped on multiple discs (LA Noire, FFXIII, FFXIII-2, GTAV come to mind) where they only needed one on the PS3.

Doable, but that doesn't mean you're getting the same experience.

Kind of the same thing here. For games exclusive to one console or the other, it's really going to be a matter of "who gives a damn?" because those games are going to be optimized to each system's capabilities. It's the crossover stuff that could be problematic if the allegations of Xbox One being comparatively underpowered end up being more than just a talking point.

Agree.. especially that last paragraph.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Or maybe they realized instead of wasting compute cycles on eye candy at levels barely detectable to the naked eye, they are actually improving game play.

We've seen few examples where some of these blockbuster cross-platform titles actually look to advance their games and improve gameplay. EA and Activision are key examples of that. They spit out a new game with a few new items to buy or a couple new bushes and call it a whole new experience when we all can see that very little has changed. We most often only get real innovation when it's a single platform release or a new IP.

[MJ4H]

After all guys, the more pixels, the better the game. I still have more fun playing Super Hexagon and VVVVVV than any other games these days.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Chatted with the Target rep over in electronics about the B2G1 on PS4 release day. Said that he expects the big scramble to be for the console. He noted that each Target would guarantee between 8 and 12 PS4's on launch day with first come, first serve on those consoles.

[MizzouRah]

COD: Ghosts on PS4 reviewed - http://www.polygon.com/2013/11/5/505264 ... sts-review

Not a good score, but it's COD, so if you like the series, it's more of the same I suppose.

Some interesting notes (XB1 impressions are embargoed until 11/12)

Next Gen

Primary testing for this review was on a PlayStation 4, though I was able to test the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions. Xbox One impressions are embargoed until Nov. 12. The difference between current and next-gen should be noticeable to anyone who has played a Call of Duty game before. There's an added sharpness on PS4, and the textures are higher resolution, but the most obvious improvements were on the lighting side.


On current gen, certain scenes, like an underwater level and a nighttime skyscraper assault felt drab and flat. The improved lighting effects on PS4 brought these same exact scenes to life. It should also be noted that I've never much enjoyed playing a first-person shooter on a PS3 controller, but the PS4 controller was a vast improvement, putting it easily on-par with the Xbox 360 controller.


Much has been said about the fact that the PlayStation 4 version of the game runs at a native 1080p, and while that may be true, the game did struggle to maintain a steady framerate, especially in hectic multiplayer matches. The PS3 version of the game ran into similar problems, whereas the Xbox 360 version maintained a steady 60 frames per second.

Some of these games will be key for the next gen.. COD was rendered at 720p, so will it run at a steady 60fps on the XB1?


I know console specific titles should run perfect on the console they are programmed for, but what about the games that release on both consoles? What direction will the market take for the two platforms?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Some of these games will be key for the next gen.. COD was rendered at 720p, so will it run at a steady 60fps on the XB1?

We'll have to see. Won't know until the 12th when they can start releasing that kind of info. In the case of BF4, the XB1 had slower average frame rate even at a lower resolution. (900p on PS4 vs. 720 on XB1). Video is below.

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I know console specific titles should run perfect on the console they are programmed for, but what about the games that release on both consoles? What direction will the market take for the two platforms?

Generally speaking, multiplatform games aren't terribly impressive at the start of a generation. I don't think this gen will be any different. Hence the reason some are holding off to purchase their console.

[MizzouRah]

That video makes me dizzy.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

That video makes me dizzy.

I'm with you on that. Some of these videos are like spinning tops if you're not the one controlling the action.

[SackAttack]

So I just got a job with Toys R Us. My streak of working every Microsoft console release likely continues.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

So I just got a job with Toys R Us. My streak of working every Microsoft console release likely continues.

I want up to date reports!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

So I just got a job with Toys R Us. My streak of working every Microsoft console release likely continues.

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I want up to date reports!

3:37pm 11/6 - Got a call from a Kansas City area code asking me about pre-order ratios. I said, lemme see. (counting PS4 pre-orders out loud) 1,2,3,4,5,6, and 7 for PS4. (counting Xbox One preorders) Fpr the Xbox One, let's see. 1, and before I could continue, he cut me off and said, 'Ok, 7 to 1 ratio in favor of Sony. Thanks!'.

3:54pm 11/6 - Got a call again from the KC area code. This time asking me if PS Vita games can be played on the Xbox One. Told him no, that is only on PlayStations. He said "Another check mark for Sony!" then hung up.

4:17pm 11/6 - Got calls from three separate Toys R Us locations, two Best Buys, a Target, and Fry's Electronics, asking if I've been getting strange calls regarding the PS4 from a number in Kansas City.

[SackAttack]

Nah. See, I'd make sure to read off the Xbox One numbers FIRST.

[Kodos]

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by cartman

3:37pm 11/6 - Got a call from a Kansas City area code asking me about pre-order ratios. I said, lemme see. (counting PS4 pre-orders out loud) 1,2,3,4,5,6, and 7 for PS4. (counting Xbox One preorders) Fpr the Xbox One, let's see. 1, and before I could continue, he cut me off and said, 'Ok, 7 to 1 ratio in favor of Sony. Thanks!'.

3:54pm 11/6 - Got a call again from the KC area code. This time asking me if PS Vita games can be played on the Xbox One. Told him no, that is only on PlayStations. He said "Another check mark for Sony!" then hung up.

4:17pm 11/6 - Got calls from three separate Toys R Us locations, two Best Buys, a Target, and Fry's Electronics, asking if I've been getting strange calls regarding the PS4 from a number in Kansas City.

[sterlingice]

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

3:37pm 11/6 - Got a call from a Kansas City area code asking me about pre-order ratios. I said, lemme see. (counting PS4 pre-orders out loud) 1,2,3,4,5,6, and 7 for PS4. (counting Xbox One preorders) Fpr the Xbox One, let's see. 1, and before I could continue, he cut me off and said, 'Ok, 7 to 1 ratio in favor of Sony. Thanks!'.

3:54pm 11/6 - Got a call again from the KC area code. This time asking me if PS Vita games can be played on the Xbox One. Told him no, that is only on PlayStations. He said "Another check mark for Sony!" then hung up.

4:17pm 11/6 - Got calls from three separate Toys R Us locations, two Best Buys, a Target, and Fry's Electronics, asking if I've been getting strange calls regarding the PS4 from a number in Kansas City.

You serious, Clark?????

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Diary videos about PS4 games, functionality, etc.

PS4 dev diaries tour Vita features, DualShock 4 and launch games | Joystiq

[SackAttack]

Local Best Buy has a PS4 demo unit in. The Xbox One area just has a video loop playing, no controller to handle or demos to play. I missed the Xbox One tour van on campus last week, so lolme there.

I like the DualShock 4 much better than the 3, but I'm not sure if I like it as much as the Xbox 360 controller (and, obviously, I've not had a chance to go hands on with the One pad yet).