The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If there's no pre-existing condition exclusion I know I'd drop my work insurance and reinstate it or private coverage if I got sick. Even if I don't get the money the company would have spent on the plan I'd still save about 350$ a month on my co-pay. What would stop millions from doing the same thing without a mandate?

Would be an interesting risk to take in the event of an emergency. Do you quickly sign up for insurance and wait for the underwriters to approve it before going into the ER for chest pains? Do you sit around and wait for the new plan to kick in after breaking your leg?

HIPAA has a built-in clause to avoid that by having a pre-existing window. If you did come down with something in the previous 6 months and were treated for it, you wouldn't be covered under the insurance for that particular issue. That essentially stops what you described above from happening. It also encourages people to have insurance at all times so that they don't fall into a window where a pre-existing condition would not be covered.

[JPhillips]

Right, so you wouldn't get rid of the pre-existing conditions clauses?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Right, so you wouldn't get rid of the pre-existing conditions clauses?

That one is in there to protect the insurance companies from what you described. I would make it so private plans fell under the same rules as group plans.

[RainMaker]

Little disappointed in everyone that I don't remember seeing a mention of his daughters.

[cartman]

He did say in his speech last night that they were both available.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Little disappointed in everyone that I don't remember seeing a mention of his daughters.

I saw a hot chick on a news site clapping during his speech. Didn't realize that was one of his daughters. I still have a place in my heart for John McCain's daughter but I will add these two to the list.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Glenn Beck re: Scott Brown's "available" comment about his daughters:

I want a chastity belt on [Brown]. I want his every move watched in Washington. I don’t trust this guy,’’ Beck said. “This one could end with a dead intern. I’m just saying. It could end with a dead intern.

Scott Brown’s remark about daughters raises eyebrows - The Boston Globe

[Flasch186]

Im Faux-shocked

[flere-imsaho]

Ah, the right wing of the GOP: making its more moderate members feel welcome from Day One. Bless them.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Ah, the right wing of the GOP: making its more moderate members feel welcome from Day One. Bless them.

Yeah, I'm kind of wondering why Ronnie even posted it. Pretty sure everyone who posts in this thread can agree that Glenn Beck has a screw loose. Makes for good entertainment, but doesn't contribute much in the way of real ideas.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I'm not much into contributing ideas MBBF, I guess I'll sit in the corner now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I'm not much into contributing ideas MBBF, I guess I'll sit in the corner now.

No, I was talking about Glenn Beck not contributing any real ideas. You've contributed far more good ideas than he ever has.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

dola,

Anyone who thinks they're accomplishing anything by bullshitting "ideas" on a sports-sim message board, and is not just here for entertainment, is a bigger idiot than I previously assumed.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Well, I posted it because I found it entertaining. That's why, since you were wondering.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

dola,

Anyone who thinks they're accomplishing anything by bullshitting "ideas" on a sports-sim message board, and is not just here for entertainment, is a bigger idiot than I previously assumed.

What's Glenn Beck's alias on FOFC?

[Kodos]

Benn Gleck.

[Flasch186]

the shame of it all is the millions of people who listen to those mouthpieces and allow them to sway their thoughts.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

the shame of it all is the millions of people who listen to those mouthpieces and allow them to sway their thoughts.

Or worse, when people listen and elect them to the Senate Al Frankin.

[Kodos]

It's like an easily swayed Simpsons crowd.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yeah, I'm kind of wondering why Ronnie even posted it. Pretty sure everyone who posts in this thread can agree that Glenn Beck has a screw loose. Makes for good entertainment, but doesn't contribute much in the way of real ideas.

I'm going to say that he doesn't have a screw loose. I just think he knows how to play the media and people like a violin. Kind of like the Paris Hilton of talking heads. Everyone thinks he's bonkers but he just keeps saying and doing stuff that makes him more money.

[RainMaker]

Oh and I would motorboat the hell out of Meghan McCain. Always had a thing for slight chubbies.

[cuervo72]

Interesting opinion:

The Context Of Middle-Class Frustration « Doctor Zero

[JPhillips]

Interesting until it lumps liberalism in with communism and fascism two paragraphs in.

[RainMaker]

Articles like that are common and they should just create "mad libs" versions of it where you can plug in a few different words to make it seem different. It's just an extension of the hate speech that has grown so popular in politics today. Swap the words liberals, collectivists, and lefties with blacks, negroes, and colored people and it just looks like the same hate speech we had 50 years ago.

That's the problem with this blog and virtually all partisians who gain traction with the public. There is no independent thought in any of that. No new ideas, no solutions to problems, and not even explaining what the problems are. Just destroying our freedoms and taking away our liberties. No details on what specifically will happen, no actual scientific evidence. Just vague generalities to try and get people on a "team" riled up.

Ask the guy what freedoms and liberties he has had taken away. Crickets will follow.

[cuervo72]

Perhaps. I'll admit that many from both sides of the street are good at speaking in generalities. I would say that personally though, my general discomfort would arise from the feeling that I may not have as much freedom as I might appear to have, because really I have very little control over my situation. The rules which will govern my life, and the lives of the vast majority of citizens, will be decided by others (how much I am allowed to make, what I am allowed to keep, what I'm allowed to eat, drink, smoke, what doctors I can see, what procedures I can have, what medications I can buy and from whom, what is deemed "safe" for me to do and what's not). I think this is why a large number of folks are getting riled up, and are "teaming" up. It's the only way they feel they'll be heard.

I see the country as being run by two behemoths - government on one side, and corporation (or the rich, take your pick) on the other. But really, the two are closely linked, and folks go back and forth between the two sides (those elected to government tend to be rich, or if they're not they leave that way; those appointed to posts later become lobbyists, etc).

Wanting to raise the standard of living for the lowest class is a noble idea. It really is - very few are truly despicable enough to deserve to be poor. I have little confidence though that bringing up the lowest classes will be achieved without being at the expense of those marginally above them. Those that make the rules won't be the ones to sacrifice, the middle will be dragged down (yay Harrison Bergeron). Rather than the economic distribution being a gradual curve, it will be a step chart - 90, 95% of the populace at a low step, then the rest at an extremely high one.

That's why I think opinions like that resonate. Am I cynical? Maybe. I have little faith that either government or corporations are run for the good of they people. I unfortunately think that it's human nature to want power, to want money, and once you have it to make damned sure you keep it. An independent-thinking, financially independent middle class could be a threat to that.

/end crazy cynical rant

[cuervo72]

Or put it this way. If someone with either political power or enough economic power wanted to ruin me, I believe they could and there would be very little I could do about it. Is that really living "free"?

[CamEdwards]

As long as we're talking about pundits who annoy you, can I nominate this kid?

Amazon.com: Defining Conservatism: The Principles That Will Bring Our Country Back (9781593156015): Jonathan Krohn: Books

The idea that a 14-year old has a book's worth of original or useful thoughts about politics (no matter what side of the aisle he or she may be on) is absurd. What's even worse is that the book's been blurbed by Gingrich, Bill Bennett, and Rich Lowry from National Review.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

As long as we're talking about pundits who annoy you, can I nominate this kid?

Amazon.com: Defining Conservatism: The Principles That Will Bring Our Country Back (9781593156015): Jonathan Krohn: Books

The idea that a 14-year old has a book's worth of original or useful thoughts about politics (no matter what side of the aisle he or she may be on) is absurd. What's even worse is that the book's been blurbed by Gingrich, Bill Bennett, and Rich Lowry from National Review.

He and Luke Russert are the next Evans and Novak.

edit: There's good humor in the what others bought section. People who bought "Defining Conservatism" also bought "Catastrophe".

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

As long as we're talking about pundits who annoy you, can I nominate this kid?

Amazon.com: Defining Conservatism: The Principles That Will Bring Our Country Back (9781593156015): Jonathan Krohn: Books

The idea that a 14-year old has a book's worth of original or useful thoughts about politics (no matter what side of the aisle he or she may be on) is absurd. What's even worse is that the book's been blurbed by Gingrich, Bill Bennett, and Rich Lowry from National Review.

While I haven't read anything about this specifically, I do like the fact that there seems to be an increase in interest amongst younger people about politics. We need more people to vote and understand how things work in our country. Getting younger people involve earlier in their lives is always a good thing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

As long as we're talking about pundits who annoy you, can I nominate this kid?

Amazon.com: Defining Conservatism: The Principles That Will Bring Our Country Back (9781593156015): Jonathan Krohn: Books

Heh, I've kind of purposely kept that book out of the house for fear my son might get ideas.

As my wife has noted on numerous occasions he's so conservative that he makes me look downright liberal by comparison I find myself increasingly having to discuss how realpolitik differs from theory.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

As my wife has noted on numerous occasions he's so conservative that he makes me look downright liberal by comparison

I'm a moderate, but this is frightening.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Izulde

I'm a moderate, but this is frightening.

Kinda how my wife feels I think. She's a bit concerned that if he follows the somewhat normal pattern of becoming more conservative over time that he might end up a tad right of center

[SportsDino]

I echo cuervo's:
"I have little faith that either government or corporations are run for the good of they people. I unfortunately think that it's human nature to want power, to want money, and once you have it to make damned sure you keep it. An independent-thinking, financially independent middle class could be a threat to that."


Unfortunately, that middle class could be the best engine of growth to make the entire economy lift which would help all boats rise (my philosophy, as a 'middle classer').

[lungs]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

/end crazy cynical rant

Loved the rant and agree with everything you said.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

As long as we're talking about pundits who annoy you, can I nominate this kid?

David Axelrod.

Heard him on NPR the day after the MA election and instead of hearing anything new, fresh or daring just heard the same old partisan BS I realized I've always heard from him.

But I guess we're always campaigning these days, right?

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

While I haven't read anything about this specifically, I do like the fact that there seems to be an increase in interest amongst younger people about politics. We need more people to vote and understand how things work in our country. Getting younger people involve earlier in their lives is always a good thing.

Getting younger people involved is great. But honestly, writing a book isn't "getting involved". I've known teens who ran for school board or even state representative and thought that was pretty cool. I just have a hard time believing that a 14-year old is going to be able to add anything unique and original to the conservative canon, and would be much better off reading than writing at that age.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Getting younger people involved is great. But honestly, writing a book isn't "getting involved". I've known teens who ran for school board or even state representative and thought that was pretty cool. I just have a hard time believing that a 14-year old is going to be able to add anything unique and original to the conservative canon, and would be much better off reading than writing at that age.

The most important thing he adds is quite possibly a small reason to have some hope for the future. To see things crystalize with someone this young is rather encouraging, and let's face it, there hasn't been a lot to be encouraged about lately if you're a conservative.

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

The most important thing he adds is quite possibly a small reason to have some hope for the future. To see things crystalize with someone this young is rather encouraging, and let's face it, there hasn't been a lot to be encouraged about lately if you're a conservative.

I think I must have flown through a wormhole on my way back from Las Vegas last night. I'm being all cynical and JiMG is a hopeful optimist here.

[ISiddiqui]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4aQCiRjvZY

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

I think I must have flown through a wormhole on my way back from Las Vegas last night. I'm being all cynical and JiMG is a hopeful optimist here.

Parallel universes.... Somewhere Jon is out there, sipping a cup of herbal tea, typing on FOFC's message board about how upset he is about Air America going off the air.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Parallel universes.... Somewhere Jon is out there, smoking a bong of "herbal tea", typing on FOFC's message board about how upset he is about Air America going off the air.

Fixed that for you

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

The idea that a 14-year old has a book's worth of original or useful thoughts about politics (no matter what side of the aisle he or she may be on) is absurd.

No it isn't. He's talking about conservatism. How old do you need to be ?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

My hopes are

1. Some massive overhaul for healthcare to fix the problem. Not sure if socialized 100% coverage is the right solution but something beyond $5K tax credits needs to be done.
2. Serious Energy program. Encourage alternate fuels etc. Not sure what the solution is but with gas back down to < $2, I am concerned this will no longer be the focus.
3. Stabilize Iraq. Militarily for sure, not sure about politically. Refocus on Afghanistan and get that SOB (preferably dead).
4. Improve world opinion of the US. I think Hillary and Bill and accomplish this!

Looks as if #1 is (going) down the drain for now. Ouch, that hurts ... it'll be interesting to see what alternatives/approach the Dems go for now.

[JPhillips]

Assuming the GOP actually is willing to offer any solutions, they should unveil their HCR package Monday and steal the thunder of the State of the Union. They don't need to have a great package or necessarily even something that works, but they could sure pull the rug out from under Obama if they actually are willing to let something pass.

[larrymcg421]

The GOP plan would be to lower taxes and increase competition, neither of which will address the issue of people with pre-existing conditions or high risk issues.

[JPhillips]

They couldn't get away with an HSA and tax break bill, but they could propose eliminating pre-existing conditions and insurance portability and HSAs. It wouldn't work, but they don't need something that works, they just need to take the spotlight.

[gstelmack]

A poll that interviewed less than 100 people? That wasn't even worth doing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

A poll that interviewed less than 100 people? That wasn't even worth doing.

Agreed. And the assumptions made by Steve based on those results were suspect at best.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

The GOP plan would be to lower taxes and increase competition, neither of which will address the issue of people with pre-existing conditions or high risk issues.

{scratches head a little} Y'know, I really don't see any way to insure people with pre-existing conditions that makes much sense, I mean, not against the pre-existing condition anyway. Insurance is essentially a bet but in the case of something you already have, the bet is already lost. And I say that while my household pays a significantly higher premium for private health insurance on my wife the cancer survivor.

Generally speaking, I don't believe the majority of people actually want "insurance", they really seem to want a "discount plan" a lot more, based on the complaints I hear most anyway. Seems to me that going after insurance is like treating a symptom instead of the actual problem, which is the generally high cost associated with health care.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

A poll that interviewed less than 100 people? That wasn't even worth doing.

Minor confusion here, help me out. The WaPo poll was 880 voters + 242 non-voters, that's 1,122 voters. Was the "less than 100 people" comment about another poll maybe?