COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[Edward64]

I was reading somewhere about EU internal angst on whether to accept the Sputnik vaccine.

Assuming that Sputnik will arrive much sooner than the equivalent other vaccines (let's say 2-4 weeks earlier), I think the EU will need to cave on "saving face/pride" and order it.

U.S. reaches 100m vaccinations Europe struggles speed up roll-out with just 10 per cent of EU jabbed | Daily Mail Online

[Edward64]

Fauci says government won't mandate them but companies can/may. If government doesn't mandate, that'll probably mean vast majority of companies will not other than maybe theme parks, international travel, schools (just like other vaccination shots), and a few others.

Small to mid-size businesses would be loathe to ask for them without a mandate ("hey, just following rules") as they want every single piece of business they can get and don't want to offend customers.

I'm guessing no vaccine passports then unless in very specific circumstances. Interesting question/dilemma.

https://www.axios.com/covid-vaccine-...b547fe68b.html

The federal government will not mandate the use of vaccine passports for travelers or businesses post-pandemic, President Biden's chief medical adviser, Dr. Anthony Fauci, told the Politico Dispatch podcast Monday
:
What they're saying: "I doubt that the federal government will be the main mover of a vaccine passport concept," said Fauci.

"They may be involved in making sure things are done fairly and equitably, but I doubt if the federal government is going to be the leading element of that."
:
"I'm not saying that they should or that they would, but I'm saying you could foresee how an independent entity might say, 'well, we can't be dealing with you unless we know you're vaccinated,' but it's not going to be mandated from the federal government."

Considering the mess the EU is in currently, I can understand their want for a passport for crossing borders.

The big picture: The E.U. unveiled its proposal for vaccine passports in March, which would allow citizens who can certify that they have been vaccinated or recently tested negative for COVID-19 to cross borders without quarantine requirements.

[Edward64]

Interesting ethical question. Should some states with the most infections get more doses than proportional population.

I think if this was in the early stages, maybe. But in current day, these states have the same information as others but have failed to control their infections.
Other states have done a relatively good job and shouldn't be penalized.

Texas didn't make the cut so looked it up in worldometers. They are #5 today on infections so they're probably #6 or #7 in news article list.

Nearly half of new US virus infections are in just 5 states

New York, Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania and New Jersey together reported 44% of the nation's new COVID-19 infections, or nearly 197,500 new cases, in the latest available seven-day period, according to state health agency data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Total U.S. infections during the same week numbered more than 452,000.

The heavy concentration of new cases in states that account for 22% of the U.S. population has prompted some experts and elected officials to call for President Joe Biden’s administration to ship additional vaccine doses to those places. So far, the White House has shown no signs of shifting from its policy of dividing vaccine doses among states based on population.

Sending extra doses to places where infection numbers are climbing makes sense, said Dr. Elvin H. Geng, a professor in infectious diseases at Washington University. But it’s also complicated. States that are more successfully controlling the virus might see less vaccine as a result.

“You wouldn’t want to make those folks wait because they were doing better,” Geng said. “On the other hand, it only makes sense to send vaccines to where the cases are rising.”

[Ksyrup]

Can't wait for all the Florida spring breakers to spread the love upon their return home...

[Thomkal]

So a story from my mother who has become addicted to You Tube. One of the crafters she follows there lives in North Carolina (I want to say Hendersonville, but don't quote me on that). The crafter has a very big family, and she shows some of their shopping and cooking on the channel.

Anyway Walmart tells them their order is ready for pickup. They go there and the pickup lines are full and overflowing. Worse yet they have just two teenage boys putting the orders in cars. They wait a while, a long while, before talking to someone working there and they tell them to go back home and they will call when the order is ready. They call and they go back after dinner.

They wait a while again, no order still, so they decide to just go in and do the shopping themselves. About three hours after they came back for the pickup, they have most of what they came for and their pickup order is still not there. They go back home and cancel their pickup order in the morning.

That is by far the worst grocery pickup story I have heard during the Pandemic, and I'm glad it wasn't me it happened to.

[Edward64]

We stopped pickup orders a while ago when supply ramped up. Also reassured that our local Kroger, Publix, Costco, Walmart were (for the most part) keeping folks honest on wearing masks. We also went in the mornings or later in the evening.

It was good for the need/time but invariably our pickup orders had produce that we would not have picked (e.g. browning leaves) or missing stuff or cannot fulfil orders. Sometimes we got extras too which was nice.

Nowadays, we go in whenever. It's almost like normal except everyone is wearing masks. No shortage of much here.

[Ksyrup]

My daughter does Kroger Clicklist because she's so busy student teaching during softball season. She showed up at 9am for a pick-up only to be told that her order got put into the car in front of her. So she sat there for 20 minutes while they speed-shopped her order and they gave her $15 off for her trouble.

We used Clicklist 3 or 4 times, mostly when we were on quarantine. I don't see a need for it anymore. I'll make the time to shop.

[sterlingice]

We've done Kroger (or HEB or both) weekly for over a year now. We've had the sub problem while there were shortages but in the past couple of months, it's been a couple of items, at most, each time. Back when Houston was at its peak, we would have to wait maybe 10 mins for a parking space (our Kroger only has 4 spaces) or HEB had 2 particular days where they were hours behind. But, generally, it's worked like clockwork so we're going to keep doing it until the pandemic dies down more. I'll be happy to go back into a store when it's time, but it's not time yet.

SI

[Ksyrup]

I don't have any issues grocery shopping (of course, I'm now fully vaccinated so it's even less of an issue). Stores here are very big, people are spread out enough, and I usually don't see more than 1 or 2 people unmasked.

Now restaurants, I've done twice since the beginning of March. One was sitting outside and the other there was only one couple eating at the same time we were, on the other side of the place.

It's interesting when these types of situations arise, what each person's individual preference becomes as far as what they will and won't permanently change. I don't mind eating out, but I've found that it's more for the convenience rather than the food. I have greatly preferred bringing the food home and giving it the finishing touch myself to make it as hot, crispy, etc., as I want it. In the restaurant, I'd be an a-hole if I sent food back to get it exactly as I want it. No problem with that at home. But I enjoy grocery shopping, so I don't feel the need to have someone do that for me.

[sterlingice]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Ontario, including Toronto, just went into a 4 week lockdown as cases have shot up again in the past month:

Canada’s largest province, home to more than 14.7 million people, issued a stay-at-home order starting April 8 at 12:01 a.m. Toronto time. Most categories of stores will be required to shut their doors, serving customers only through delivery or outdoor pickup. The order is in place for four weeks.

Even big-box retailers such as Walmart Inc. and Costco Wholesale Corp., which were less affected by earlier restrictions from Premier Doug Ford’s government, will now be limited to selling only essential goods such as food, cleaning products and pharmacy items.

Happy to report our store is fully compliant with the new law. : ontario

One Reddit post has some pictures of how a WalMart there was arranged where they have to block off lots of products and sections of the store due to the restrictions.

I can only imagine the screeching that would go on here with something like this.

SI

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I was reading somewhere about EU internal angst on whether to accept the Sputnik vaccine.

Assuming that Sputnik will arrive much sooner than the equivalent other vaccines (let's say 2-4 weeks earlier), I think the EU will need to cave on "saving face/pride" and order it.

Germany in negotiations for Sputnik. Regardless of the political ramifications, it's probably the right thing to do - place the order now but decide whether to use it when the time comes.

In retrospect, this is what the EU countries should do. Place the order and if you don't need it (when it's actually delivered), donate it to developing countries.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/09/germ...n-vaccine.html

Speaking at Friday’s press conference, the health minister confirmed that contract negotiations to purchase the Russian-developed vaccine Sputnik V are taking place now, according to Reuters. Spahn added that there is nonetheless a question mark about whether these vaccines would be available in the coming months.

The European Medicines Agency began assessing the Russian shot in early March and will decide whether to recommend it for use in the 27 EU member states. Although the regulator is using an urgent method to check the efficacy of Sputnik V, it is unclear when it could get final approval.

Authorities in Germany have previously said they would consider using the Russian vaccine if the EMA were to conclude that the shot was effective at preventing the Covid-19 virus.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Edward64

In retrospect, this is what the EU countries should do. Place the order and if you don't need it (when it's actually delivered), donate it to developing countries.

Exactly. If you have the cash, by all means do this

SI

[molson]

One of the many mistakes the EU made with vaccines was being frugal and haggling on price. They made deals weeks later they could have, and lost out on some distribution to the U.K.

The U.S. and U.K. realized right away that cost was really irrelevant, because the economic benefits of getting back to normal faster far outweighed any price difference that the EU was holding out on.

The EU prioritized cheaper instead, and they have access to cheaper now.

[miami_fan]

It is extremely early in the process but this is a side effect of the COVID vaccine I think we can all get behind!

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/202...-response-rate

A new HIV vaccine, based on the Moderna COVID-19 inoculation, has shown a 97% antibody response rate in Phase I clinical trials. Currently, HIV affects more than 38 million people globally. If approved, this vaccine could become the first stage of a multi-step strategy to combat HIV and other viral diseases.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

It is extremely early in the process but this is a side effect of the COVID vaccine I think we can all get behind!

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/202...-response-rate

Wow, this is fantastic news if it works out. I wonder if there is a possibility for a cancer "vaccine" also.

[Edward64]

I don't know all the legal mumbo-jumbo nuances but in reading this article, it's reasonable to me. I don't want government to dictate who and how many I can have in my house. I do get these are extraordinary times and would be okay with this if the rule was applied consistently.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/10/polit...ies/index.html

The Supreme Court by a 5-4 vote on Friday blocked another state Covid-19 restriction on religious services, with another late-night order, over protests from California officials that the limits affecting some Bible study sessions did not impinge on religious rights and were to be lifted within days.

The unsigned order for the high court majority also revealed the deep ideological fissure, with conservatives (including the three appointees of former President Donald Trump) in control and liberals dissenting bitterly.
Chief Justice John Roberts also dissented, although he did not sign the statement by the three justices on the left, written by Justice Elena Kagan.

Friday's order, issued just before midnight, arose from a California prohibition on gatherings of people from more than three households and affected certain Bible study and prayer meetings held in a home.

"California treats some comparable secular activities more favorably than at-home religious exercise," the Supreme Court majority said in the order, "permitting hair salons, retail stores, personal care services, movie theaters, private suites at sporting events and concerts, and indoor restaurants to bring together more than three households at a time."

[Ksyrup]

HS softball is in full swing and we had a tournament this weekend (well, Friday since today got rained out). Tournament was at a 4-field park and there were 16 teams (4 pools playing at each field). It was one of those "ring"-type setups with bathrooms and concessions in the midde. So, there were probably anywhere from 12-16 teams, coaches, family, friends, etc., at the park at any one time, and everyone was on top of each other. I'd venture a guess that less than 10% of the people wore a mask at any time while in the park. Hundreds of people, no one social distancing. Luckily it was outdoors, of course, but it was still completely irresponsible.

[Edward64]

TBH, I don't know the line but there is a certain age where I would be resistant in having my child vaccinated until there are a bunch of others first. As a parent, I certainly understand this concern. As <16 haven't been approved for the vaccine yet, that indicates not enough testing has been done so the article's conclusion, about need more info for parents, is correct.

Will you vaccinate your kids against COVID-19 once they’re eligible? Only half of U.S. parents say yes - MarketWatch

Despite public-health experts’ forecast that herd immunity against COVID-19 will require vaccinating children, new polling suggests only half of parents are currently on board with getting their own kids vaccinated.

Fifty-two percent of U.S. parents of a child under 18 say they’re likely to have their kid get the COVID-19 vaccine as soon as it’s available for their age group, according to the latest installment of the Axios-Ipsos Coronavirus Index. Republican respondents showed the greatest resistance to pediatric vaccination, Axios reported.
:
A similar pattern emerged in a separate survey conducted from March 7 to March 12 by the family advocacy organization ParentsTogether: Though 70% of parents said they had already received or planned to receive the coronavirus vaccine, just 58% expressed a willingness to “probably or definitely” vaccinate their kids.
:
“The path to higher vaccine acceptance is clear: Parents need more education and information to make them comfortable before deciding to vaccinate their child,” the survey report said. “Parents report anxiety about unknown side effects as their top concern, say they want to know more about the research, and need more evidence of the vaccine’s safety.”

[Edward64]

Some troubling news for the SA variant and Pfizer vaccine. Three questions the article didn't answer ...

Even if vaccinated people caught the SA variant, were symptoms less severe, mortality still much reduced?

How about Moderna?

What does it mean that vaccinated people were 8x more likely to catch/have it than unvaccinated? I can't quite make sense of the 8x other than maybe sampling size is way too small?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...ine-study-says

The coronavirus variant discovered in South Africa can “break through” Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine to some extent, a study in Israel found.

The South African coronavirus variant managed to penetrate the protection offered by two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine to some degree, though it remains unclear just how much efficacy is lost, it said.
:
But among patients who had received two doses of the vaccine, the variant’s prevalence rate was eight times higher than those unvaccinated – 5.4 percent versus 0.7 percent.
:
“We found a disproportionately higher rate of the South African variant among people vaccinated with a second dose, compared with the unvaccinated group. This means that the South African variant is able, to some extent, to break through the vaccine’s protection,” said Tel Aviv University’s Adi Stern who led the study.

[tarcone]

Im afraid this is the beginning of the end of our population problem. I imagine these viruses will continue to mutate and continue killing people.

[JPhillips]

There will always be viruses, but I think we're entering a period of new vaccines with mRNA tech that gives us a temporary leg up on the pathogens trying to live off of us.

[albionmoonlight]

On the one hand, we cannot go back to the last four years of the government lying to us as a matter of course. We need full transparency. So I am happy that these numbers are not being hidden

On the other hand, 6 blood clots out of 7 million J&J doses administered is basically nothing. And people are going to lose their minds over it b/c people don't understand math.

Sigh.

[Ksyrup]

And it plays right into the hands of the anti-shutdown people who claim the other side is too cautious and not balanced enough. Perfection/zero risk is an unattainable goal.

[Scoobz0202]

Yea, can't help but feel this will have great effect on the push to get herd immunity via vaccine and ultimately prolong the pandemic. I know a few younger people that are hesitant but were going to try and get the J&J shot as it was only one shot.

[Ksyrup]

Kentucky just announced yesterday that as soon as we hit 2.5M people who have had at least a 1st dose, we are dropping many capacity and social distancing restrictions for restaurants, bars, gyms, concert venues, etc., for 1K person capacity and fewer.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

On the one hand, we cannot go back to the last four years of the government lying to us as a matter of course. We need full transparency. So I am happy that these numbers are not being hidden

On the other hand, 6 blood clots out of 7 million J&J doses administered is basically nothing. And people are going to lose their minds over it b/c people don't understand math.

Sigh.

The way this is being reported is going to result in a lot of people having an excuse to not get vaccinated.

[molson]

I think it was this thread where we were talking about pandemic home values.

Here's where the biggest increases have been.

My county is darkest colored county in the whole map that basically broke the scale.

https://i.redd.it/qsgt973982t61.png

[JPhillips]

new Monmouth University poll:

proportion who say they'll never get covid vaccine if they can avoid it

5% of Democrats
22% of independents
43% of Republicans

— John Harwood (@JohnJHarwood) April 14, 2021

The speed with which the GOP has become anti-vax is genuinely surprising and a real concern in terms of herd immunity. I have to think a media campaign featuring Trump would convince some percentage of these people.

[Ksyrup]

Why would he do that? His entire platform and popularity is based on being contrarian, particularly here where it can be tied to a political divide.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Why would he do that? His entire platform and popularity is based on being contrarian, particularly here where it can be tied to a political divide.

$$$

ETA: He does like getting his ego stroked though

https://www.businessinsider.com/covi...-donors-2021-4

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Why would he do that? His entire platform and popularity is based on being contrarian, particularly here where it can be tied to a political divide.

I don't expect him t do it, I just think that's the only way to move a significant number of GOPers that won't take the vaccine. He could save a lot of lives, but he won't.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by molson

I think it was this thread where we were talking about pandemic home values.

Here's where the biggest increases have been.

My county is darkest colored county in the whole map that basically broke the scale.

https://i.redd.it/qsgt973982t61.png

In Toronto, we are roughly 30% up year over year. Crazy. The actual city is less (10-20%), as there was a rush out of the city as the "work from home" trend took hold. You can't buy a home without being in a bidding war, and everything is blind bids, so you get some crazy bids as people get more desperate.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The speed with which the GOP has become anti-vax is genuinely surprising and a real concern in terms of herd immunity. I have to think a media campaign featuring Trump would convince some percentage of these people.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-...a-safe-vaccine

He has done that already.

[albionmoonlight]

The problem with a Trump ad campaign is that you can't go to Trump and ask for something. As soon as he figures out he has something that someone else finds valuable, he won't give it up.

The way to get Trump on board is to make him think that you don't want him out there telling his folks to get vaccinated. Then he'll do it to spite you.

But that's a hard message to get to him without confusing people along the way.

[JPhillips]

I'm not talking about a line in an interview that most people will never see. If he did commercials and participated in vaccine promotions around the country he'd make a real difference.

But he won't.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I'm not talking about a line in an interview that most people will never see. If he did commercials and participated in vaccine promotions around the country he'd make a real difference.

But he won't.

And that would be counter-productive to his grift and his 2024 campaign hopes (why would he have any interest in helping Biden be a success in anything?).

[Kodos]

Maybe if we put his signature on each needle?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Maybe if we put his signature on each needle?

Yeah, just call it "The Prick", which can be embossed in gold lettering on every box.

SI

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

And that would be counter-productive to his grift and his 2024 campaign hopes (why would he have any interest in helping Biden be a success in anything?).

We're not arguing, but I'd add that he's also too lazy to work that hard.

He's so petty and jealous of everyone else that he'd rather thousands of his supporters die.

[Ksyrup]

Many of his supporters don't believe people are dying from Covid, but that Covid is being appended to every death certificate to turn an underlying cause of death into a Covid death. So those people were going to die anyway, in their minds. Yet another way this works in his favor. If at any point the calculus showed this doing him more harm than good, he'd change his position.

[albionmoonlight]

It feels like we are 2-3 weeks away from supply no longer being an issue and convincing folks to get a shot becomes the next challenge.

The irony is that the folks who are the most against lockdowns, masks, etc. are going to make lockdowns and masks go on for much longer than they would otherwise by refusing to get a vaccine.

[JPhillips]

We're already at that point in NY. On Friday I got an email asking for people to just show up that day with no appointment because they had @2000 available spots.

[albionmoonlight]

I think that the best thing that the WH could do would be to plant a reporter to ask something about Trump being able to convince his supporters to get the vaccine.

And for the WH to then answer something along the lines of we would of course welcome his help, and there is certainly a political breakdown in who is saying they won't get the vaccine. But it is unrealistic to think that Trump could do much to change their minds. These people are independent, and they won't just do what Trump says.

Get him to go out and convince his drones to get the vaccine and then brag about how he got everyone to do it.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

It feels like we are 2-3 weeks away from supply no longer being an issue and convincing folks to get a shot becomes the next challenge.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

We're already at that point in NY.

We, the relatively well-to-do, are mostly there in most of the country. It's the hard-to-reach, suspicious-of-government, and so forth who are going to be the first and most serious challenge. The separate and separable challenge of the believing-the-bullshit component is its own problem.

I'm awfully worried that this may have some ugly demographics over time. The places where all the classes and points of view commingle are going to be pretty important - schools, airports, retail centers.

[JPhillips]

I think it would help if the CDC started opening up some more areas and private businesses and schools made vaccinations mandatory. There needs to be a carrot/stick approach with the idea that vaccinations are the way to go back to normal. People will scream initially, but then most of them will go get their shots.

[GrantDawg]

That's the reason my boss finally got his. He asked his doctor whether he should and if it is safe. Basically the doctor said nothing is 100 percent,but we are never going to get back to normal until we reach a level of herd immunity through vaccination. That was enough to convince him.
Meanwhile, my daughter still refuses to take it. She fears future reproduction issues.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think it would help if the CDC started opening up some more areas and private businesses and schools made vaccinations mandatory. There needs to be a carrot/stick approach with the idea that vaccinations are the way to go back to normal. People will scream initially, but then most of them will go get their shots.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issues order prohibiting 'vaccine passports' | TheHill

Of course, in Texas, Abbott put out an executive order banning any sort of vaccine passport /and/ (because, of course "local is better" only applies down to a state level not local one) forbidding smaller jurisdictions (say, Austin) from doing it.

SI

[NobodyHere]

Can't say I'm a big fan of government mandated passports myself. I don't think people should have to carry around paperwork to simply go to the grocery store. It seems too Soviet-esque for my libertarian tastes.

On the other hand private businesses should require proof, then that is their business.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think it would help if the CDC started opening up some more areas and private businesses and schools made vaccinations mandatory. There needs to be a carrot/stick approach with the idea that vaccinations are the way to go back to normal. People will scream initially, but then most of them will go get their shots.

That's what we're attempting to do in KY - get to 2.5M vaccinated, many restrictions are lifted.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Can't say I'm a big fan of government mandated passports myself. I don't think people should have to carry around paperwork to simply go to the grocery store. It seems too Soviet-esque for my libertarian tastes.

On the other hand private businesses should require proof, then that is their business.

Domestically, I'm okay with passports for some situations. Wouldn't demand it of grocery stores and like. But I think passports to fly (including walking into an airport before getting into a plane), cruises, schools etc. should be required.

Internationally, I absolutely think countries and US should require passports and/or quarantine period until we get to "that" point (which is probably +1 year after the US).