Vick Sentenced to 23 Months For Dog Fighting

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

at least Dakotans don't have any pro sports to ignore/not care about.

I really don't think it's a question of ignoring or not caring; it's a question of level of care. I care deeply about the Falcons winning or losing, but I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY care about rubbing a win in the face of all these USC people I am around all the time now. Similarly, same thing with all the Auburnheads and Tech people back in the A-T-L.

Maybe it's as simple as that. Before Jax/Car/Ten came into the league in very recent years, the Falcons were the only team for the majority of the SEC folks. If the Falcons lost, you didn't have to go to work or school the next day and catch it. But if the Dawgs lost on Saturday, church was a miserable place on Sunday, and work or school was a miserable place on Monday. And if it was a loss to Auburn or Tech in particular, you had to LIVE with those mofos for an entire year.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

don't get me started on South Dakota. there is no need for it to exist. we just need one big state called "Dakota". South Dakota is where hopes and dreams go to die. what even goes on in South Dakota. with any other state i can name at least one redeeming/identifiable quality, but there is nothing going on in South Dakota.

that being said, i dislike Georgians more than i dislike South Dakotans. at least Dakotans don't have any pro sports to ignore/not care about.

Um. Ever heard of Mount Rushmore?

[rkmsuf]

.9% of the population in South Dakota is black. there's not much dancing going on besides square dancing or line dancing.

[rkmsuf]

Ha, famous South Dakodians

Pat O'Brien
Bob Barker
Sparky Anderson
Terry Francona
Cheryl Ladd
Catherine Bach
Mary Hart

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Catherine Bach

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Who's that? I don't know who her and Cheryl Ladd are...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Who's that? I don't know who her and Cheryl Ladd are...

You, sir, are about to get banned.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Ha, famous South Dakodians

Pat O'Brien
Bob Barker
Sparky Anderson
Terry Francona
Cheryl Ladd
Catherine Bach
Mary Hart

see, devoid of quality.

i was unaware of Mt. Rushmore being in SD. thought it was like Montana or Wyoming or one of those other mid-west places.

question - is dogfighting a primarily southern thing? if Vick had been drafted by the Chargers does he still get into this mess? is the proximity to the southern dogfighting culture what compounded this problem, or was he damned to this right from the very start? it's a shame such a great football talent has been wasted. i saw Vick vs. the Giants once, and i swear every time he took off you heard the electricity in the crowd, like this collective gasp of anticipation.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

You, sir, are about to get banned.

I did a wiki search on Catherine Bach... now I know who she is.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

You, sir, are about to get banned.

This might be one of the more deserving bannings we will have seen.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

see, devoid of quality.

Daisy Duke, devoid of quality???????????????????

You're next.

[MikeVic]

Is she still a looker? I would think she's pretty old right now.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Is she still a looker? I would think she's pretty old right now.

jbanniation

[Travis]

I'd just like to take a moment to point out that MikeVic's comments in no way reflect that of Canada nor it's other inhabitants. We fully support any action that the authority figures on this board feel they must take in response.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

see, devoid of quality.

i was unaware of Mt. Rushmore being in SD. thought it was like Montana or Wyoming or one of those other mid-west places.

And yet SD is the one devoid of quality?

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

question - is dogfighting a primarily southern thing? if Vick had been drafted by the Chargers does he still get into this mess? is the proximity to the southern dogfighting culture what compounded this problem, or was he damned to this right from the very start? it's a shame such a great football talent has been wasted. i saw Vick vs. the Giants once, and i swear every time he took off you heard the electricity in the crowd, like this collective gasp of anticipation.

I believe it is a southern thing. However, the problems occurred in Virginia, where Vick grew up. They did not occur in Georgia, so I don't believe going to San Diego would have made a difference.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Daisy Duke, devoid of quality???????????????????

You're next.

wow...i didn't know her real name. she's one of the people you really need to follow up with "aka".

compare those people, from the entire state of SD, to these people who are from Astoria alone:

Christopher Walken
Tony Bennett


in other news, NAACP is supporting Vick's reinstatement to the NFL after his sentence is over. i wonder who wins in a fight - NAACP or PETA? who has more pull with sponsors. at this point imagine if NAACP requests to protest all sponsors who abandoned Vick? what do corporate sponsors do? which demographic do they pander to? this is like an excellent gameshow.

reading the ESPN article about the above, you get the feeling (the Atlanta chapter) NAACP leader might know a thing or two about dogfighting. also, in the same article Stephon Marbury, that bastion of all that is right in the world and the beacon who illuminates our path to righteousness, supports Vick, namely because "we shoot deers for sport...dogfighting is a sport too".

[MikeVic]

A quick google image search shows that she still has her top-parts... can't see the legs though. Or the back-side. But she looks kinda chunky.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Travis

I'd just like to take a moment to point out that MikeVic's comments in no way reflect that of Canada nor it's other inhabitants. We fully support any action that the authority figures on this board feel they must take in response.

Thanks for the support buddy.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

wow...i didn't know her real name. she's one of the people you really need to follow up with "aka".

compare those people, from the entire state of SD, to these people who are from Astoria alone:

Christopher Walken
Tony Bennett


in other news, NAACP is supporting Vick's reinstatement to the NFL after his sentence is over. i wonder who wins in a fight - NAACP or PETA? who has more pull with sponsors. at this point imagine if NAACP requests to protest all sponsors who abandoned Vick? what do corporate sponsors do? which demographic do they pander to? this is like an excellent gameshow.

reading the ESPN article about the above, you get the feeling (the Atlanta chapter) NAACP leader might know a thing or two about dogfighting. also, in the same article Stephon Marbury, that bastion of all that is right in the world and the beacon who illuminates our path to righteousness, supports Vick, namely because "we shoot deers for sport...dogfighting is a sport too".

In a showdown between the NAACP and PETA in the Vick/Dogfighting case, I believe PETA wins. If the best the NAACP can come up with is the same thing Starbury did, that dogfighting is no different from deer hunting, they don't have much to go on.

Simply stated, PETA has the moral highground. As we all know, he who has the highground wins. Just ask Darth Vader about that one.

[Anthony]

here is the article from ESPN today:

Originally Posted by ESPN Article

ATLANTA -- An NAACP leader said Michael Vick should be allowed to return to the NFL, preferably the Atlanta Falcons, after serving his sentence for his role in a dogfighting operation.

"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," said R.L. White, president of the NAACP's Atlanta chapter. "We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country."

White said the Falcons quarterback is a human being who has made a mistake and should be allowed to prove that he has learned from that mistake.

On Monday, Vick said through a lawyer that he will plead guilty to a federal charge of conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and conspiracy to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture.

Three Vick associates have pleaded guilty to the conspiracy charge and say Vick provided nearly all the gambling and operating funds for the "Bad Newz Kennels" dogfighting enterprise. Two of them also said Vick participated in executing at least eight underperforming dogs, raising the possibility of the animal cruelty charges.

Last month, state and local leaders of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People urged the public not to rush to judgment in the Vick case. The civil rights organization said animal rights groups, talk radio and the news media were vilifying the embattled athlete, and that his team and corporate sponsors were prematurely punishing Vick.

White said the Atlanta chapter supports Vick's decision to accept a plea bargain if it's in his best interest, but he questioned the credibility of Vick's co-defendants, saying an admission of guilt might be more about cutting losses than the truth.

"At this point, you're not looking at guilt or innocence," White said, referring to the possible harsher sentence Vick could have received had he taken his case to trial and been found guilty. "You're thinking, 'What I better do is cut my losses and take a plea.' But if he saw this as the best thing to do at this point for his future, then I think he made the correct choice."

White said he regretted that the plea deal will mean all the facts of the case might never be known.

"Some have said things to save their own necks," White said. "Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he had killed a human being."

White said he does not support dogfighting and that he considers it as bad as hunting.

"His crime is, it was a dog," White said

[Anthony]

here is Marbury's thoughts:

Originally Posted by Stephon Marbury

Marbury, Jones weigh in

On Monday, New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury was in Albany, N.Y., promoting his brand of affordable sneakers. He was asked about Michael Vick, and said, according to Newsday:

"We don't say anything about people shooting deers and shooting other animals, you know what I mean? From what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors and I think it's tough that we build Michael Vick up and then we break him down ... I think he fell into a bad situation."

On Tuesday, Roy Jones Jr. was a guest on ESPN Radio's The Pulse, where he talked about Vick, dogfighting, cockfighting and more in a wide-ranging interview.

to me, killing an animal for sport is ok if it's

A. something that is on our food chain/is edible.
B. poses some sort of mortal risk to you.

regarding point A - dogs aren't on our food chain (excluding Chinese restaurants in NYC, that's still to be debated). deers are consumed by many outdoorsmen, i would say the pure hunting-for-sport guys at least will give out the meat to those that do eat deer meat. dogs are not considered game, they are our companions. they are parts of families. as far as B is concerned, it's risky to go hunting bears or moose. they are big animals. ditto for jungle animals. you are truly being a hunter when it's you vs. the environment and predators.

[MikeVic]

I'm not a big dog person, but I can understand why people are up in arms over this, since he didn't just make dogs fight or kill them. It sounds like they were living under horrible conditions. Being tortured, then had to fight, then killed.

In the above article:

Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he had killed a human being.

I think the speaker doesn't understand that people are more up in arms over all the torture. Although I do personally agree that he wouldn't have gotten as much bad press as if he killed a person... but if he tortured that person before killing them, then he'd be getting even more bad press than this.

[rkmsuf]

Always love when we get input from Starbury.

[MikeVic]

And Starbury is peddling cheap shoes too.

[rkmsuf]

So who has been indentified in the "dog fighting isn't so bad club"?

Starbury, Neon Deion, Portis?

I thought there were a few others with the "I'll be damned if I knew it was wrong" rap.

[molson]

I'm guessing that if Vick killed a human being, the press would be worse.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Nice. I was waiting for the inevitable "he just plead guilty and admitted to his crimes just to save his neck, but that doesn't mean he was actually guilty or did anything" argument.

Clearly, in White's eyes, Vick would have never been guilty. If he accepts the plea and admits he did it, he was strong-armed into doing it. If he had an actual trial and was found guilty, I am sure that White would have claimed some sort of bias or injustice ocurred.

If the guy isn't willing to see the difference between hunting and running a dogfighting operation in which you brutally killed dogs who didn't compete up to your standards, then I don't think he's really interested in anything other than his agenda.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

So who has been indentified in the "dog fighting isn't so bad club"?

Starbury, Neon Deion, Portis?

I thought there were a few others with the "I'll be damned if I knew it was wrong" rap.

Didn't McNabb say this? And Tom Brady too.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm guessing that if Vick killed a human being, the press would be worse.

ya think? these people crack me up crying a river for this guy.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm guessing that if Vick killed a human being, the press would be worse.

I don't know about that. It all depends on how. I don't remember that Rams DE getting a lot of bad press. Meanwhile Benoit (the wrestler who killed his family) got a lot of press for a while because of the whole steroid thing and how his family was killed.

[BrianD]

A couple of thoughts on the article:

"As a society, we should aid in his rehabilitation and welcome a new Michael Vick back into the community without a permanent loss of his career in football," said R.L. White, president of the NAACP's Atlanta chapter.

I can support this position if Vick appears to learn from his time away.

"We further ask the NFL, Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country."

This seems an odd request. I could see asking them not to take away his ability to earn a living, but the ability to entertain people? Odd.

White said the Atlanta chapter supports Vick's decision to accept a plea bargain if it's in his best interest, but he questioned the credibility of Vick's co-defendants, saying an admission of guilt might be more about cutting losses than the truth.

"At this point, you're not looking at guilt or innocence," White said, referring to the possible harsher sentence Vick could have received had he taken his case to trial and been found guilty. "You're thinking, 'What I better do is cut my losses and take a plea.' But if he saw this as the best thing to do at this point for his future, then I think he made the correct choice."

Seems like a quick jump to the point of Vick being railroaded and forced to take a plea as a lesser evil. Shouldn't the NAACP be as concerned about the witnesses as for Vick? It just seems like they are willing to throw the unnamed guys to the wolves to protect a high profile guy.

White said he regretted that the plea deal will mean all the facts of the case might never be known.

This is very true. It would be nice to know the truth.

White said he does not support dogfighting and that he considers it as bad as hunting.

As bad? Really? Not worse?

"His crime is, it was a dog," White said

Actually, it was many dogs...with brutal deaths...following brutal lives....

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Although I do personally agree that he wouldn't have gotten as much bad press as if he killed a person... but if he tortured that person before killing them, then he'd be getting even more bad press than this.

It depends on what you mean by killing a person. If you mean he was driving drunk and killed a person, then yes he would not have gotten as much bad press. However, if he had deliberately murdered a person, then I think it's crazy to assume he wouldn't have got worse press than he's been getting now.

Now, a better case for the Vick defenders to make would be about domestic abuse, which unfortunately does not carry as big a stain as it really should for athletes. I would really like the NFL to take a much more aggressive stance on that.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

So who has been indentified in the "dog fighting isn't so bad club"?

Starbury, Neon Deion, Portis?

I thought there were a few others with the "I'll be damned if I knew it was wrong" rap.

Emmit Smith, i believe, also.

[molson]

I'm not sure the backlash against Leonard Little isn't actually worse than it is against Vick here. Vick seems to have a lot of support. I don't reacall the Atlanta president of NAACP standing up for Little.

Edit: I realize the VOLUME of press is very different in those cases, but is Vick really being torn apart right now? Many are saying he's being railroaded, many other are saying this is all just a product of his background.

Vick is being portrayed as a backwards hillbilly who didn't know any better, rather than a criminal mastermind of a dog-fighting ring.

[Noble_Platypus]

Does anyone else find it ironic that the leader of the NAACP mentioned here has a last name of White?

[Noble_Platypus]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

Emmit Smith, i believe, also.

Jonathon Vilma, LB for the Jets as well.

Also, Donovan McNabb and Joe Horn have openly supported him.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

So who has been indentified in the "dog fighting isn't so bad club"?

Starbury, Neon Deion, Portis?

I thought there were a few others with the "I'll be damned if I knew it was wrong" rap.

From conversations that I have had with people in this area there are far more people in this club than many people think. They are just smart enough not to express their support publicly.

[stevew]

Hanford Dixon, formerly of the browns, seemed to think it wasn't a major deal, anyways.

[Noble_Platypus]

Neither did former RB Fred McCrary

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by stevew

Hanford Dixon, formerly of the browns, seemed to think it wasn't a major deal, anyways.

I'll never play as him in Tecmo Bowl again.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Noble_Platypus

Jonathon Vilma, LB for the Jets as well.

Also, Donovan McNabb and Joe Horn have openly supported him.

The quote I heard from Joe Horn was that he condemned what Vick did, but he was still supporting him as a friend.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

don't get me started on South Dakota. there is no need for it to exist. we just need one big state called "Dakota". South Dakota is where hopes and dreams go to die. what even goes on in South Dakota. with any other state i can name at least one redeeming/identifiable quality, but there is nothing going on in South Dakota.

This is probably true, but it is like picking on a 1st grader.
Every state can't be New York.
Besides, your food needs to be grown somewhere.

[MikeVic]

North American Association for Coloured People should be changed to North American Association for African Americans.

NAAAA

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm guessing that if Vick killed a human being, the press would be worse.

I disagree. I mean, O.J. killed someone, and that hardly got any press at all.


Oh wait...

[Surtt]

"His crime is, it was a dog," White said

These people comparing it to hunting ....
It is about the intent.

Most hunters I know will let a deer get away rather the risk wounding it and letting it suffer.
Vick got his enjoyment from watching the dogs suffer while they fought for there lives.

It is the difference between swatting a fly and pulling its wings off.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Surtt

It is the difference between swatting a fly and keeping it under a shot glass all it's life and then pulling its wings off.

Fixed.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I disagree. I mean, O.J. killed someone, and that hardly got any press at all.


Oh wait...

allegedly

[miked]

Originally Posted by Surtt

These people comparing it to hunting ....
It is about the intent.

Most hunters I know will let a deer get away rather the risk wounding it and letting it suffer.
Vick got his enjoyment from watching the dogs suffer while they fought for there lives.

It is the difference between swatting a fly and pulling its wings off.

Just because you hit something in the right spot doesn't mean it will die every time. I find hunting as a sport fairly reprehensible. I think dogfighting is disgusting, but I think hunting for sport is one of the silliest things. I know people will disagree, but that's life. Shooting an animal for no other reason than some personal satisfaction isn't that much different. Of course, I'm no hunter. My wife's father was a hunter when he was younger, because a 2 deer in Clarion would last them a while and was there only source of meat (they could afford and had easy access to). Nowadays, people like Cheney and others just go to enclosed areas and shoot for "sport", which I find just as bad.

[Noble_Platypus]

People seem to forget, or maybe leave out on purpose, that its not only that the dogs hurt eachother fighting, but the fucking terrible conditions in which they were living for years, being starved and other deplorable things to make them mean/better fighters, then the way they were killed if they lost.

[Brillig]

Originally Posted by miked

Just because you hit something in the right spot doesn't mean it will die every time. I find hunting as a sport fairly reprehensible. I think dogfighting is disgusting, but I think hunting for sport is one of the silliest things. I know people will disagree, but that's life. Shooting an animal for no other reason than some personal satisfaction isn't that much different. Of course, I'm no hunter. My wife's father was a hunter when he was younger, because a 2 deer in Clarion would last them a while and was there only source of meat (they could afford and had easy access to). Nowadays, people like Cheney and others just go to enclosed areas and shoot for "sport", which I find just as bad.

At least the people hunting with Cheney are risking their own lives, which makes it a bit of a sport...