Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[digamma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Couple of interesting things to note about these numbers.....

1. There are some schools that only count revenue/donations when received, while other schools count pledges as actual revenue. There's no standard in that regard as to how you have to report it.

2. The conference realignment situation has really made a mess of some revenue/expense numbers. Any of the schools that have moved over the last year or two have conference buy-out expenses in their numbers. It can make some fiscally responsible schools look like their program is running a large deficit for a year or two.

Let me translate what MBBF is trying to say: I PROMISE WE ARE MORE LIKE ARKANSAS THAN WE ARE LIKE OLE MISS.

Of course, Arkansas hasn't won an SEC football title either. But they have been to a final four.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

It is so sad and tragic that there are those crowing about WVU's athletic revenues and potential profits from the move when the school (including divisional campuses) is facing $13.3 million or 8.9% budget cuts according to wvutoday.wvu.edu.

Perhaps if you understood what you were crowing about you might feel better and find it less tragic.

WVU's athletic department, which does rely on student fees (the "subsidies" in the above link) collected from their tuition (to cover "free" admission to athletic and other events, transportation, use of rec center, etc.) was one of just 22 self-sustaining programs two years ago and is completely self-sufficient. The one-time, $20-million buyout was paid for in its entirety during the last budget year from the athletic department:
WV MetroNews – More Details On Tentative Agreement

WVU is expected to make its payment entirely from the athletic department and will include no taxpayer dollars, no academic monies and no student tuition money. The University sees the deal as an “investment” since the conference payouts from the Big 12 will be more than double the current $7 million WVU gets from the Big East.

The $13.3-million cuts come from the state budget and the school will have to make some tough decisions (probably slowing down on some capital improvement plans and on new hires, along with an already approved 5% tuition hike), but for you to think that it has any relationship with WVU's athletic department is just foolish.

Google any large, state university's name + budget cuts and you will find that the the economy is forcing states to reduce spending (I quickly found that Ohio State had cut the budget over $130-million in the past two fiscal years, Michigan had recently cut theirs by $40-million, Florida had been been cut over $240-million since 2006, and University of California and California State University Systems cut $250-million last year).

[Buccaneer]

I simply believe that the athletic department should exist solely for the well-being of the (academic) university, not the other way around. Maintaining the status quo or better yet, reducing athletic revenues/priorities would allow more money (from TV/etc.) to be put into the academic and research departments as states are cutting them back or raising tuition causing more student debts. If academic departments were not cutting back and student tuition were low, then the luxury of a big athletic department and their TV/bowl/conference revenues would be more palatable.

[digamma]

Looking at the database is pretty interesting. A few thoughts...

-Within major conferences, the distinguisher is still tickets and donations. TV is obviously a difference maker between the major conference little guys and the non-BCS leagues.

-Does anyone know what Ohio State's "Other" revenue is? 33 million worth.

-It would be interesting to know where private schools like Wake, Vanderbilt, and Baylor land. I would assume Notre Dame and USC are top ten and Duke somewhere in the top 50.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I simply believe that the athletic department should exist solely for the well-being of the (academic) university, not the other way around. Maintaining the status quo or better yet, reducing athletic revenues/priorities would allow more money (from TV/etc.) to be put into the academic and research departments as states are cutting them back or raising tuition causing more student debts. If academic departments were not cutting back and student tuition were low, then the luxury of a big athletic department and their TV/bowl/conference revenues would be more palatable.

Except that the reality is that most D1 school athletic departments need to be subsidized in some form in order to exist - the number of self-sufficient athletic departments is a small fraction of the number of D1 schools. So the fact that WVU is self-sustaining (though it's a somewhat arguable contention if they are getting mandatory student fees, but whatever) is a big win.

I would bet that only a tiny fraction of schools actually see their athletic departments put profits back into the school's general fund, and what you are suggesting as ideal is impossible for all but a handful of schools.

I know with Washington, not only is the department self-sufficient, but the school actually gets a bit of revenue off of athletics in the form of parking revenue - the University controls all parking on campus, and any athletic events, whatever they are (practices, exhibitions, games, whatever) that drive folks to park on campus means money that goes into the UW's general fund rather than the athletic department.

[Butter]

Not that anyone cares, but Davidson was added to the Atlantic 10 starting in 2014/15. With the addition of George Mason this coming season, that makes a 14 team league barring more raiding by the NBE.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Not that anyone cares, but Davidson was added to the Atlantic 10 starting in 2014/15. With the addition of George Mason this coming season, that makes a 14 team league barring more raiding by the NBE.

Making them the 4th team to recently leave the SoCon (Col of Charleston to the CAA this summer, Appy State & Ga Southern to the Sun Belt in 2014).

But here's yesterday's quote from the Samford (who joined in 2008) AD talking about his boss, who chairs the Council of Presidents for the conference.

"He's leading us in a direction that I'm very positive about and I think we'll see something here in the next two to three months that'll make everybody happy," Newton said.

So who the heck does the SoCon steal teams from? Most likely the Atlantic Sun (ETSU, Kennesaw, Mercer) and/or the Big South (Campbell, Coastal Carolina). Of those possible/rumored candidates ETSU & Kennesaw will start football in 2015, Mercer begins play in the Pioneer Conference this fall.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Making them the 4th team to recently leave the SoCon (Col of Charleston to the CAA this summer, Appy State & Ga Southern to the Sun Belt in 2014).

But here's yesterday's quote from the Samford (who joined in 2008) AD talking about his boss, who chairs the Council of Presidents for the conference.

"He's leading us in a direction that I'm very positive about and I think we'll see something here in the next two to three months that'll make everybody happy," Newton said.

So who the heck does the SoCon steal teams from? Most likely the Atlantic Sun (ETSU, Kennesaw, Mercer) and/or the Big South (Campbell, Coastal Carolina). Of those possible/rumored candidates ETSU & Kennesaw will start football in 2015, Mercer begins play in the Pioneer Conference this fall.

It wouldn't be a terrible thing to see some of these smaller conferences merge as well. Less automatic bids in the NCAA tournament, opening up more at-large bids for mid-major teams. I really don't think it changes the big conference bids. There wasn't many BCS conference teams that had a great argument that they were left out of the tourney over the last few years. Definitely more mid-majors could make that argument.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It wouldn't be a terrible thing to see some of these smaller conferences merge as well. Less automatic bids in the NCAA tournament, opening up more at-large bids for mid-major teams. I really don't think it changes the big conference bids. There wasn't many BCS conference teams that had a great argument that they were left out of the tourney over the last few years. Definitely more mid-majors could make that argument.

I'm not getting much sense that merger is on most of the minds.

SoCon will take teams from other conferences, who will then either take from existing conferences or reach down to DII (something SoCon has specifically said they would not be doing).

[Butter]

Even in Division I, we have been seeing more and more teams moving up or starting up (take FGCU as an example). I don't think there will be any shortage of teams able to move up and fill the holes in the lowest level leagues like the Big South and the A-Sun.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Making them the 4th team to recently leave the SoCon (Col of Charleston to the CAA this summer, Appy State & Ga Southern to the Sun Belt in 2014).

But here's yesterday's quote from the Samford (who joined in 2008) AD talking about his boss, who chairs the Council of Presidents for the conference.

"He's leading us in a direction that I'm very positive about and I think we'll see something here in the next two to three months that'll make everybody happy," Newton said.

So who the heck does the SoCon steal teams from? Most likely the Atlantic Sun (ETSU, Kennesaw, Mercer) and/or the Big South (Campbell, Coastal Carolina). Of those possible/rumored candidates ETSU & Kennesaw will start football in 2015, Mercer begins play in the Pioneer Conference this fall.

Coastal Carolina would love to get out of the Big South, though they won't say so publicly of course. They are at the top or near top in almost every sport they participate in, and have made/are making improvements/built new facilities in football, baseball, and basketball in the last 2-3 years. Campbell just rejoined the conference in 2011 from the Atlantic Sun, so not sure they would be interested in moving again so quickly. I'm not sure how much of a step up it would be to join the SoCon though given all the teams that are leaving it.

However this past week they just announced they are cutting Men's Track and Cross Country in part for Title IX compliance, and in part due to budgetary cutbacks across the entire university. If moving up required a bigger financial committment, they might not be able to move at this point.

[britrock88]

Detroit is headed to the Horizon League, too.

[Young Drachma]

Yeah, be looking for FGCU to move up soon to another league. They're a hotshot and frankly, they're already dominating the Atlantic Sun other sports. I actually ran across an article from a local columnist there back in February BEFORE #dunkcity that basically was saying "We're too good for this league already. We need to do other things," mostly because of the other sports. So now with a #dunkcity under their belt, even if they come back to earth a lot next year sans Enfield (I feel like they're going to be a school we hear from again, maybe not with aplomb but they're not going to just fade to black) that...they're a school folks will remember again and look at Butler's ascent.

FGCU won't do that, but...prime real estate that a conference will want to get their hands on.

Like Jon said, no way we're getting mergers. I mean, the f-ing WAC managed to scrounge enough teams together to keep an autobid. Conferences aren't going to just leave money on the table/autobid on the floor just because "makes sense." Especially so the 8th best team in some "power" league can qualify for the tournament. Screw that shit, this isn't football where despite my underdog tendencies that I think there's a clearer delineation between majors and minors. In basketball, in this universe? I'd prefer the top team from a C-conference than the team that couldn't manage a winning record in their major league, even if the latter team is better.

But it's interesting how the shuffles are happening. Also worth noting, that despite the non-existent TV deals in D3, there's been a huge wave of conference realignment down there too. Mostly borne out of geographic concerns, but the realignment bug is trickling down. A lot of these leagues have had the same composition for years and so, it's sort of like a time where everyone is beginning to reevaluate their relationships since these moves are making it okay to do that.

[Young Drachma]

Really detailed FAQ from Grand Valley State's athletic website about why they're intentionally D2.

Grand Valley State University Official Athletic Site - Links

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well I almost sorta guessed right. Mercer to the Southern Conference, along with VMI and ETSU.

Mercer heading to Southern Conference | Mercer | Macon.com

from the article

With Mercer’s move, all of the founding members of the A-Sun, started in 1978 as the Trans America Athletic Conference, will have departed by the start of the 2014-15 academic year. Another founding A-Sun member, Samford, left in 2003 to join the Ohio Valley Conference before eventually joining the Southern Conference.

The A-Sun will have eight members once Mercer and East Tennessee State depart in 2014: Florida Gulf Coast, Jacksonville, Kennesaw State, Lipscomb, North Florida, Northern Kentucky, Stetson and USC Upstate. Mercer and East Tennessee State will each owe $200,000 in exit fees, but they also will earn — for one academic year — the extra NCAA basketball tournament revenue the A-Sun picked up thanks to Florida Gulf Coast’s Sweet 16 run in March.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well I almost sorta guessed right. Mercer to the Southern Conference, along with VMI and ETSU.

Mercer heading to Southern Conference | Mercer | Macon.com

from the article

Was surprised to see VMI as the Big South team the conference was interested in, but given the presence of the Citadel there it makes more sense. VMI was never particularly competitive in any sport on a consistent basis in the Big South-can't imagine they will do any better in the Southern.

[Young Drachma]

http://www.bigeast.org/News/tabid/43...mpionship.aspx

American will have their first conference tourney in Memphis at FedExForum.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

The man who oversaw the Mizzou move to the SEC is retiring.....

Deaton's legacy has SEC theme - Columbia Daily Tribune : Mu

[Marmel]

It is July 1 - a bittersweet day. Cuse is in the ACC. The only thing I can say is that it is better than what is left behind with the BE/AAC and we also reunite with BC, Miami and Vtech as well as Pitt and ND coming along. Plus we get to kick the crap out of Duke and UNC in hoops.

[SirFozzie]

Man, seeing all the big money moves, I'm reading the Last Amateurs by John Feinstein... about the Patriot League. So different than the big conferences.

[tarcone]

In the Spring, the talking heads were sure the B1G would make an announcement about teams 15 and 16 around July 4th.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

In the Spring, the talking heads were sure the B1G would make an announcement about teams 15 and 16 around July 4th.

ACC Grant of Rights deal was signed in April. Nothing was to come after that.

[Swaggs]

WVU announced that they were (re-)adding Men's Golf today. Kind of a cool addition, as interest is on the rise within the state and the program was closed (after close to 50-years) in the early 80s.

The school has also gotten the green light to build a new baseball stadium and has had contact with the New York-Penn League about attracting a short season, minor league team. Completion is still probably two seasons away, but I could see us adding women's softball within the next 5-10 years, as well.

[spleen1015]

49 teams moved today. Sheesh.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

49 teams moved today. Sheesh.

Is there a handy story or list anywhere?

SI

[molson]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Is there a handy story or list anywhere?

SI

The wikipedia season pages have handy lists of these, at least as they pertain to whatever sport the page covers. And there's rule and coaching changes too

2013 NCAA Division I FBS football season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2013–14 NCAA Division I men's basketball season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Is there a handy story or list anywhere?

SI

Unfortunately, I heard the number on the radio. Nothing to point to. I am surprised the ESPN doesn't have a main story on it today.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Unfortunately, I heard the number on the radio. Nothing to point to. I am surprised the ESPN doesn't have a main story on it today.

They are too busy giving 24-7 news coverage to the topic "Why does Dwight Howard get 24-7 news coverage?"

[spleen1015]

Found this

A complete breakdown of conference realignment for 2013-2014 | CollegeBasketballTalk

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just announced that the starting date of the SEC Network is August 21, 2014. This day just happens to be the 151st anniversary of the beginning of the Missouri/Kansas rivalry.....

William Quantrill Raids Lawrence, Kansas, 1863

[CraigSca]

I thought that date looked familiar!

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Just announced that the starting date of the SEC Network is August 21, 2014. This day just happens to be the 151st anniversary of the beginning of the Missouri/Kansas rivalry.....

William Quantrill Raids Lawrence, Kansas, 1863

It was a good rivalry. Too bad you guys ended it and almost took down the conference. Don't see much need to play Mizzou for a while. Hope you're enjoying the SEC.

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

It was a good rivalry. Too bad you guys ended it and almost took down the conference. Don't see much need to play Mizzou for a while. Hope you're enjoying the SEC.

SI

This was why A&M and Mizzou left...

Oklahoma, Texas Gave Power to Presidents, Move to Pac-12 is Likely

However I am not a Mizzou fan that ever thought of KU as anything more than a fun rival. (ie Didn't hate KU) I totally understand why they don't schedule Mizzou right now but hoping they add a basketball game (or football) in Kansas City in the future. Also think KU will be just fine when the conferences go to 16 teams and would love to see KU join the SEC as it would be a huge hoops add and a fun football addition.

EDIT: They play Colorado in basketball this season so the butthurt feelings will only be temporary once the $$$ is on the table. That's how college sports work, for Mizzou too!

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by panerd

They play Colorado in basketball this season so the butthurt feelings will only be temporary once the $$$ is on the table. That's how college sports work, for Mizzou too!

That's how college sports work when you don't have a football program to create revenue. Until then, they'll stick with the party line that Mizzou was somehow the problem in the conference.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That's how college sports work when you don't have a football program to create revenue.

Sounds like Mizzou right now.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Sounds like Mizzou right now.

Ah yes. Nothing like one poor year during a good stretch to fire up the spirits of FOFC.

[Logan]

NCAA reform looms amid talk of Division IV at conference media days - College Football - Pete Thamel - SI.com

[Kodos]

http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...nclick_check=1

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

http://www.indystar.com/article/2013...nclick_check=1

Outside of Emmert's involvement, everything else would seem to be a move in the right direction.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

What a disaster. People appear to finally be realizing just how many mistakes Dodds has made during this whole process and how weak the standing of the Big 12 has become. Amazing that the ACC has become a viable option for UT given what they've had available previously. Orangebloods.com predicting UT to ACC in 2-3 years. So glad Mizzou exited this clusterf#$@.

Orangebloods.com - The Eyes of Texas are on Bill Powers

Some choice quotes:

"morale in UT athletics is at an all-time low - from the poor performance of football, men's and women's basketball and baseball to the impending discrimination lawsuit of former Texas women's track coach Bev Kearney (due to be filed the first week of October).

Sources say Dodds is now being blamed by high-ranking officials for talking Powers into keeping Texas in what they see as a lackluster Big 12 instead of a robust Pac-12."

"In most fans' minds, even victories against K-State and Iowa State the next two games would only be prolonging the inevitable, baby-seal-type clubbings Texas is likely to take from OU, TCU, Oklahoma State and Baylor."

[cartman]

Once again, MBBF shows his Texas envy. There isn't anything in that article about Texas and the ACC, and I'm sure if a regent at Mizzou had talked about speaking with Saban, we'd have about 6,247 more posts about how his move was imminent.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Orangebloods.com predicting UT to ACC in 2-3 years.

[gstelmack]

ACC wants Notre Dame, not UT.

[Butter]

ACC already has half a ND. They are getting 15 football games out of them over the next 3 years and they are joining in all other sports.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Once again, MBBF shows his Texas envy. There isn't anything in that article about Texas and the ACC, and I'm sure if a regent at Mizzou had talked about speaking with Saban, we'd have about 6,247 more posts about how his move was imminent.

You're correct. The article was about the disaster in the program. The ACC mention was on the premium message board, which obviously isn't linkable.

There's nothing to envy about the B12 and UT right now. That's for certain. But if you're happy with it, more power to you.

[MrBug708]

Come to the Pac Texas

[cuervo72]

Why the fuck do you care about a team that you don't root for and is no longer in your conference?? Focus on other things.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You're correct. The article was about the disaster in the program. The ACC mention was on the premium message board, which obviously isn't linkable.

There's nothing to envy about the B12 and UT right now. That's for certain. But if you're happy with it, more power to you.

Yep, nothing at all to envy. Jesus Jumping Christ you are a piece of work. The Big 12 still has the highest per team TV deal, sent a record number of teams to bowls last season for a conference, and the UT athletic program is the highest revenue program in college athletics. Yes, the athletic teams of UT are in a down period now, but their "down" times equals the normal average records of Mizzou teams.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Yep, nothing at all to envy. Jesus Jumping Christ you are a piece of work. The Big 12 still has the highest per team TV deal, sent a record number of teams to bowls last season for a conference, and the UT athletic program is the highest revenue program in college athletics. Yes, the athletic teams of UT are in a down period now, but their "down" times equals the normal average records of Mizzou teams.

See, I told you cartman was actually Dodds. At least you've changed it from 'good' in your previous quote to 'normal average' in this quote. It doesn't look nearly as stupid as before with that revision.

[britrock88]

Am I the only person that envies the XII's true round robin in football and double round robin in basketball?