COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778)

[molson]

I'd do a cruise now if it was in the plans. I have felt zero hesitation for any activity since I was vaccinated. I know it's still possible to test positive, and possibly even get sick, but, I just don't have any fear any more. It's time to makeup for lost time.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by molson

I'd do a cruise now if it was in the plans. I have felt zero hesitation for any activity since I was vaccinated. I know it's still possible to test positive, and possibly even get sick, but, I just don't have any fear any more. It's time to makeup for lost time.

I am *so ready* for them to open it up to < 12.

Once my final kid is vaccinated, then I will breathe that sigh of relief.

[Ksyrup]

I don't really have any fear, but I want to see cruises successfully operate for a while before I get on one. If something is going to go wrong, that's one of the first places I could see issues happening. If we had rescheduled for this year and our cruise was going to happen, I'm sure we'd put it off until next year at the earliest and then see how things go.

[Lathum]

Cruises are insanely cheap right now. Booking opens Tuesday for the flogging Molly salty dog cruise. Wife and I are considering going. Covid isn’t part of those considerations. Not at all worried about it.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I am *so ready* for them to open it up to < 12.

Once my final kid is vaccinated, then I will breathe that sigh of relief.

+1 here, esp with a my youngest being in a medically vulnerable category

[Butter]

We're doing a 2 week trip to California in late Nov/ early Dec including a cruise to the Mexican Riviera.

We're also planning to go to Nice, France in early Nov. Whoever said making up for lost time nailed it.

[Ksyrup]

We're taking our first vacation in over 2 years to the New Hampshire mountains in August, then Florida in October as a spite vacation rather than lose out on unrefunded money.

Next year, we're doing 2 weeks in Hawaii to celebrate 2 graduations and our 25th anniversary. Hopefully by then the car rental companies will have sufficient stock and we won't be forced to drive around Kauai in a U-Haul.

[cuervo72]

Went out to eat as a family for the first time since all this on Saturday. Tuesday night, I start running a low-grade fever. Yippee.

[GrantDawg]

I am with you, Molson. Was literally just today thinking I wish I had the money to go on a cruise. We went many years ago and really enjoyed it.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Edward64]

Not too concerned as Pfizer & Moderna has shown to be effective against the Delta strain.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/29/healt...day/index.html

The more transmissible Delta variant has spread to almost every state in the US, fueling health experts' concerns about Covid-19 spikes.

Company asked if I would want to travel anytime soon. I said I prefer not to but will if needed. Company is not pushing, they just wanted to know.

[Ksyrup]

NC State had to withdraw from the CWS due to Covid. Turns out 8 players had the Delta strain and I believe at least 4 of them were vaccinated.

[PilotMan]

If you could have been vaccinated at this point, and chose not to, I don't really care if someone who was vaccinated, and gets a low grade covid infection and spreads it to you. My bigger concern is for the groups who can't get vaccinated.

[Ksyrup]

In the case of NC State, it appears the unvaccinated got it first and gave it to the vaccinated.

[Edward64]

Somewhat disappointing vs Delta but still much better than nothing. Wonder how Moderna is doing?

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Pfizer Inc.’s Covid-19 vaccine appears to be less effective in halting the spread of the delta strain of the virus, though it is shielding against severe illness, according to data from Israel’s government.

The vaccine protected 64% of people against the illness between June 6 and early July, down from 94% between May 2 and June 5, the Ynet news website reported, citing Health Ministry numbers. The drop in effectiveness coincides with the government lifting virus restrictions at the start of June, just as the new variant was beginning to make inroads.
:
The data cited by Ynet also offered some positive news on the shot, showing that it is protecting against severe illness. The effectiveness at preventing hospitalization dipped only slightly to 93% from 98% in those periods.
:
Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla has said people will “likely” need a third dose of vaccine within 12 months of getting fully protected.

[BYU 14]

Even at 64% still much more effective than the standard flu vaccination and of course this type of vaccine can be reformulated much quicker to account for mutations, so I still consider that good news.

[molson]

And I'd bet a lot of people who get the variant have mild enough symptoms that they don't get tested and added to the COVID count.

We're hearing about some cases among vaccinated athletes, who are tested constantly, getting positive results, while the overall numbers of positive tests is still pretty much flat. If the variant carries with it some measure of immunity, it could actually help us get to herd immunity faster, since it seemingly spread so quickly, and is mostly going to impact the unvaccinated.

[albionmoonlight]

https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1412489395840507907

If they had led with this, I don't think we'd have the level of vaccine hesitancy we do. Not even kidding.

[Ksyrup]

Eh, it's clear that most of the "muh freedom" guys are already suffering from something that's causing anger issues, so I'm guessing there is a great redundancy here.

[JPhillips]

[Edward64]

Was on PTO last week and wife and I stayed at hotels and dined-in at restaurants. The staffs were still wearing masks but guests & diners were essentially mask free. Restaurants were still nicely spaced and had dividers between booths.

Including us. Nice to be somewhat back to normal. Still had our sanitizing spray and washed hands etc. but not too hung up about masks.

Yeah, I guess we can still catch it but odds are greatly reduced and also for severity (and mortality).

[Edward64]

I like his approach. This would imply some sort of vaccination passport which I'm supportive of. I can see manned kiosks at malls or bar-scanner-like at restaurants or TSA-like-verification for air travel etc.

But I'm not convince all of those will move the dial significantly. Instead, maybe require vaccination to enter a stadium (basketball, baseball, football, NASCAR etc.) or enter school/college (vs remote learning).

The French Rush For Vaccines After They're Told They'll Need Them To Go To Cafes : Coronavirus Updates : NPR

A record number of French citizens booked vaccine shots Monday after French President Emmanuel Macron said that starting in August, anyone who wants to visit cafes, bars or shopping centers must show a "health pass" that certifies they've been vaccinated or recently tested negative for the coronavirus.

"Get vaccinated!" the president said in a live address to the nation, warning of a new coronavirus surge fueled by the fast-spreading delta variant.

Many French people got the message loud and clear. On Monday, 926,000 people booked their first dose through the online medical platform Doctolib — "an absolute record," the site says. Hundreds of thousands more have continued to book slots on Tuesday.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I like his approach. This would imply some sort of vaccination passport which I'm supportive of. I can see manned kiosks at malls or bar-scanner-like at restaurants or TSA-like-verification for air travel etc.

But I'm not convince all of those will move the dial significantly. Instead, maybe require vaccination to enter a stadium (basketball, baseball, football, NASCAR etc.) or enter school/college (vs remote learning).

The French Rush For Vaccines After They're Told They'll Need Them To Go To Cafes : Coronavirus Updates : NPR

Pretty sure it goes for all Events. He also announced that from September on Tests won't be free anymore and also that vaccination is going to be mandatory for HC workers at that time So there's multiple things at play here. Kind of surprised how incomplete the article is.

As an aside: Pretty much everybody in many european countries has an analogue "vaccine passport" (i guess the US too ? If nothing else to keep track for those vaccines needing refreshers like tetanus etc), which you also needed to travel pre-covid in some instances as quite a few countries demand certain vaccinations, for example against yellow fever.

As far as the Covid Vacvinations go, here for example you can also get it certified digitally using either the tracing app or at many pharmacies.

[Edward64]

We don't have a "vaccine passport" that is freely accessible by third parties. We have to show that kids are vaccinated for school but my vaccinations that I got travelling to other countries were done by my doctor ... but there is not a database for others to verify this (that I know of). If I needed to get a tetanus booster, its between me and my doctor.

I've never been to a country that needed proof that I was vaccinated for X, Y or Z (maybe when I was a kid but certainly not as an adult).

When I got Covid shot, got a "card". So I'm sure I'm in a database somewhere. But don't think TSA can check it automatically.

[molson]

In my state, a "right-to-work" state, a private hospital, which has always required its employees to get certain vaccines, said that employees have until later this year to get the COVID vaccine or they're going to be terminated.

The Republican legislature is freaking out and trying to figure out how to ban private vaccine passports. The governor already banned public entity vaccine passports via executive order.

These kinds of battles further establish the Republican party as an anti-vaxx party, which is strange, considering many Republicans (maybe not a majority) have been vaccinated, including their supreme leader.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Edward64

We don't have a "vaccine passport" that is freely accessible by third parties. We have to show that kids are vaccinated for school but my vaccinations that I got travelling to other countries were done by my doctor ... but there is not a database for others to verify this (that I know of). If I needed to get a tetanus booster, its between me and my doctor.

I've never been to a country that needed proof that I was vaccinated for X, Y or Z (maybe when I was a kid but certainly not as an adult).

When I got Covid shot, got a "card". So I'm sure I'm in a database somewhere. But don't think TSA can check it automatically.

Not what i described in any case not a database, a document. Either a little 'booklet' or a certificate for your phone which is pretty much the digital version of this.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by molson

These kinds of battles further establish the Republican party as an anti-vaxx party, which is strange, considering many Republicans (maybe not a majority) have been vaccinated, including their supreme leader.

I don't know how accurate it is, but I imagine most ant-vaxxers are vaccinated themselves. I also imagine that a fair number of them are simply some flavor of sociopath/narcissist willing to take any excuse not to take their kids to the doctor. If/how that also applies to the GOP is up for debate.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I don't know how accurate it is, but I imagine most ant-vaxxers are vaccinated themselves. I also imagine that a fair number of them are simply some flavor of sociopath/narcissist willing to take any excuse not to take their kids to the doctor. If/how that also applies to the GOP is up for debate.

The biggest anti-vaxx trope not incidentily is "i am not anti-vaccine, but ...". It's the "i know many XYZ people" of the antivaxx-movement. There is a reason why the rally behind people who were previously in favour of vaccinationions, but then went on to make a living out of misinterpreting and mixing/matching other peoples studies.
Most prominent right now is a canadian researcher who worked on a Covid19 vaccine, but now (after it not being close to relevant) has 'discovered' how the mRNA ones really are toxic. By taking 2 studies and wildly misrepresenting them, then putting them together for an argument. Study 1 measured that indeed Spike Proteins can accumulate in organs (when given in wildly charged up amounts beyond anything anybody would ever encounter, essentially a proof of concept animal study), Study 2 measured miniscule amount many ten thousand times lower in the blood of Moderna recipients before disapearing after a couple days, essentially a proof of concept study showing how the vaccine indeed first gets the body to build small amounts of the spike protein (most of which does not enter the blood stream) and then dissolves it quickly. Result ? The studies prove that high amounts of spike protein are in the blood, thus it is expected they cause a lot of damage because we know (actually more like suspect) that's how it works with the virus.

Between this and the batshit crazy "inventor of mRNA vaccinations" (whose wife literally runs around writing "woe is me" pieces bemoaning his lack of regognition as "the inventor" and apparently even managed to be stupid enough to use her wikipedia account under her maiden name to promote him before being blocked) i'm not sure who gets first price right now in this particular category.

Expect both to feature heavily in Republican arguments.

If it weren't so serious, these circles could be immensely entertaining.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I don't know how accurate it is, but I imagine most ant-vaxxers are vaccinated themselves. I also imagine that a fair number of them are simply some flavor of sociopath/narcissist willing to take any excuse not to take their kids to the doctor. If/how that also applies to the GOP is up for debate.

FWIW, I don't think this is accurate of the ones I know personally. There are a number for example who aren't getting the COVID vaccine who aren't anti-vax in general; they just don't trust a vaccine that hasn't gone through long-term testing for side effects etc.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

FWIW, I don't think this is accurate of the ones I know personally. There are a number for example who aren't getting the COVID vaccine who aren't anti-vax in general; they just don't trust a vaccine that hasn't gone through long-term testing for side effects etc.

I think there is a big distinction between anti-vaxxers and those purely being wary of the Covid vaccine, so I think both you and the sloppy could be right.

[Ksyrup]

Well, this is reassuring...

Not a single country in the world has vaccinated enough people to stop the Delta variant.

Malta, the world’s most vaccinated country (~90% of adults), saw its COVID-19 cases increase from 1 a day in June to 200 yesterday.

We must all adapt & learn to live in this new normal. pic.twitter.com/JN7SIfnIz8

— Youyang Gu (@youyanggu) July 15, 2021

[Atocep]

My wife took a job with UW medicine a few weeks ago working with the COVID response team. They're seeing a noticeable spike in cases over the past week after everything was trending down before. The state's reporting 62% of those 16+ have been fully vaccinated.

I saw a poll that also showed that 65% of unvaccinated people say the Delta variant makes them less likely to get vaccinated.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I saw a poll that also showed that 65% of unvaccinated people say the Delta variant makes them less likely to get vaccinated.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Kodos

I'm guessing it's because people skeptical of the vaccine for whatever reason are overselling how it was supposed to be a "cure" and that vaccinated people getting Covid anyway is less of a reason to get the vaccine.

The truth, of course, is that it greatly lessens the chance you get it, and also lessens the severity if you do get it. But of course, nuance is easily dismissed when you're deadset against something, so the standard line I see is, "We were told vaccines would keep us from getting Covid, and now vaccinated people are getting Covid? You're all suckers!"

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Kodos

[GrantDawg]

These numbers are crazy:

Unvaccinated in L.A. County comprised 99.6% of cases, 98.7% of hospitalizations and 99.8% of deaths between Dec. 7 and June 7. pic.twitter.com/3ot4BPPuvW

— Monica Gandhi MD, MPH (@MonicaGandhi9) July 16, 2021

[Lathum]

Am I a bad person for not only being completely unable to muster any sympathy for these people, but actually being annoyed at them? I mean, it is Darwanism at this point.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Am I a bad person for not only being completely unable to muster any sympathy for these people, but actually being annoyed at them? I mean, it is Darwanism at this point.

They're not just hurting themselves, their selfishness is impacting vaccinated people, and impacting how quickly we can truly get back to normal.

And I wonder if the best outcome right now is that the variant spread through the unvaccinated population as quickly as possible, but still at a level where the hospitals aren't overrun. That would impact innocent vaccinated people too, to a much lesser degree. But the faster most people have SOME form of immunity, however it's gained, decreases the opportunity for additional variants and strengthens the herd immunity defense. Which of course was the point of vaccinations.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Am I a bad person for not only being completely unable to muster any sympathy for these people, but actually being annoyed at them? I mean, it is Darwanism at this point.

There are some people that are not vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons, which would also put them at the highest risk of death if they caught it.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Am I a bad person for not only being completely unable to muster any sympathy for these people, but actually being annoyed at them? I mean, it is Darwanism at this point.

Well I'm a very bad person and like you I think it's Darwinism at this point for folks (at least in the US). But I can't say I'm annoyed by them.

However at the same time I'm not a fan of having to show "proof of vaccination" to do routine commerce or to get a job. Too much invasion of privacy for me.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

There are some people that are not vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons, which would also put them at the highest risk of death if they caught it.

Yup, over here. And that's what happened in Sweden right... herd immunity seemed like a great idea and was mostly fine for young healthy people, but absolutely tore through nursing homes and the at risk population.

And it's easy to say "well just don't go anywhere" but I have to go into hospital on a regular basis, so there's never going to be zero risk for me until I can get a vaccination that will actually be effective.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by AlexB

I think there is a big distinction between anti-vaxxers and those purely being wary of the Covid vaccine, so I think both you and the sloppy could be right.

An excellent point. The two generally get conflated, but that might not be the case here.

Originally Posted by Lathum

Am I a bad person for not only being completely unable to muster any sympathy for these people, but actually being annoyed at them? I mean, it is Darwanism at this point.

I'm not qualified to judge if you are a bad person. I'll just say bad things happen to people all of the time because of their poor decisions. I don't think that makes them unworthy of sympathy. Being human is the only requirement there.

[Edward64]

I honestly don't know if it was a lab leak. The virus is likely not man-made but could there have been a leak in the Wuhan lab? My guess is probably not.

Regardless, this should be used against China and rally allies or neutrals in Asia and blunt China's military, technology & economic expansion. Yeah, let's continue to de-couple for now.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/16/polit...ins/index.html

Senior Biden administration officials overseeing an intelligence review into the origins of the coronavirus now believe the theory that the virus accidentally escaped from a lab in Wuhan is at least as credible as the possibility that it emerged naturally in the wild -- a dramatic shift from a year ago, when Democrats publicly downplayed the so-called lab leak theory.

Still, more than halfway into President Joe Biden's renewed 90-day push to find answers, the intelligence community remains firmly divided over whether the virus leaked from the Wuhan lab or jumped naturally from animals to humans in the wild, multiple sources familiar with the probe told CNN.

Little new evidence has emerged to move the needle in one direction or another, these people said. But the fact that the lab leak theory is being seriously considered by top Biden officials is noteworthy and comes amid a growing openness to the idea even though most scientists who study coronaviruses and who have investigated the origins of the pandemic say the evidence strongly supports a natural origin.

Current intelligence reinforces the belief that the virus most likely originated naturally, from animal-human contact and was not deliberately engineered, the sources said. But that does not preclude the possibility that the virus was the result of an accidental leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where coronavirus research was being conducted on bats -- although many scientists familiar with the research say such a leak is unlikely.

[Edward64]

Not sure where we are with allowing younger kids to get vaccinated but sounds like they should hurry up.

Are Covid hospitalizations still "free" or are they now regular deductible-insurance?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/18/healt...day/index.html

Millions of Americans are jeopardizing their health, freedom and finances by not getting vaccinated and putting themselves at risk of the most infectious coronavirus strain yet, current and former federal health officials say.

"Most people will either get vaccinated, or have been previously infected, or they will get this Delta variant," Dr. Scott Gottlieb told CBS' "Face the Nation" on Sunday.

"And for most people who get this Delta variant, it's going to be the most serious virus that they get in their lifetime in terms of the risk of putting them in the hospital," said Gottlieb, who was commissioner of the US Food and Drug Administration during the Trump administration.
:
"This year's virus is not last year's virus," said Dr. Catherine O'Neal, an infectious disease specialist at Our Lady of the Lake Regional Medical Center in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

"It's attacking our 40-year-olds. It's attacking our parents and young grandparents. And it's getting our kids," O'Neal said. She said her Covid-19 unit now has more patients in their 20s who were previously healthy.

[CrimsonFox]

Monkey pox has been spotted in texas.

I'll wait for Foxpox before diving in tho

[whomario]

Why are Natural Scientists so terrible at messaging ? And why are they the ones doing it ? And does nobody coach them ?

Patrick Vallance (UK Chief Scientific adviser) not only bungled the numbers, instead of 60% unvaccinated in Hospital said 60% vaccinated, it also is utterly useless and only creates unneeded confusion. I know instinct is to dumb it down to 1 number, but that number is nonsensical.

I mean, take the same 2 'groups' (fully vaccinated/everybody else) without any vaccine and the former would be expected to make up 95% of hospitalisations and at a much higher total due to pretty much 95% of 50 (or 40 ?) and older and propably most of the younger ones with chronic conditions already being double vaxxed. The fact they make up at most (since it includes single vaxed), 40% is an amazingly small number. Yet when you say it like that people think "wow, that's a lot" and you gotta hope Media outlets do the explaining you should have done.

[bronconick]

Damn, just how much of a hit did Hannity's stock portfolio take today for him to suddenly come out in support of vaccines???

[whomario]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Damn, just how much of a hit did Hannity's stock portfolio take today for him to suddenly come out in support of vaccines???

You mean the one where he then 'randomly' pivoted to that one time in 2019 a highschooler was temporarily paralyzed after taking a different vaccine ? (While i understand her hesitation, it's a pretty blatant muddying of the waters by Hannity). And on his radio show then said a) "do your own research" and b) the vaccines aren't that essential because Hydroxychloroquine is effective as treatment ?

He's simply clever enough to play both sides by positioning himself as the moderate and tolerant among the crazies while still throwing them enough so they can say "yeah well, he's under pressure from advertisers etc,but he clearly still believes the right stuff".

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Damn, just how much of a hit did Hannity's stock portfolio take today for him to suddenly come out in support of vaccines???

He was always in support of the vaccine don't-ya-know? After all it was created by Donald Trump himself to combat the Chinese Flu. It was Joe Biden who failed his own goal to get Americans vaccinated.


*This was a very tongue in cheek post, I didn't listen to Hannity but I'm actually kind of surprised that my post isn't more of a GOP talking point.*

[Edward64]

From what I've read, he didn't really come out and said "get the vaccine".

He is giving himself plenty of wiggle room but doesn't seem like that "gotcha" that I'm seeing in some MSM.

[miami_fan]

We all know that the wiggle room is the important part though. That is the skill.