The Mental Health Thread

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

The media has both sides worried that the other side hates them more than life itself. Generally, I've found that most people - conservative or liberal - genuinely want to make the world a better place. They just disagree on how to get there.

This used to be true, but is not anymore. When you have polls saying most conservatives agree that the election was stolen, you have a fundamental disconnect. When you have an overwhelming majority of Republicans in Congress agree that January 6th was not a big deal, and you have a big old meh about evidence that multiple members of Congress were actually in on it, you have a fundamental disconnect.

This is not a party in crisis. This is a full on Constitutional assault. Until enough REPUBLICANS actually take a principled stand and vote AGAINST REPUBLICANS, this won't stop. It may not stop until it is far too late. We're pretty close to it already.

[Butter]

The idea that this is some media created hysteria is also quite amusing. Republicans have found that their constituents won't vote against them basically no matter what, so they are using that opportunity to abuse power to an obscene degree. If you are blind to that and just want to claim some weak both sides-ism, you are part of the problem

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Butter

The idea that this is some media created hysteria is also quite amusing. Republicans have found that their constituents won't vote against them basically no matter what, so they are using that opportunity to abuse power to an obscene degree. If you are blind to that and just want to claim some weak both sides-ism, you are part of the problem

That's what the perpetual anger does for you. It convinces you that your side is so morally correct that anyone who disagrees is just as bad as any of the bad actors.

[PilotMan]

Let's keep this less about who did or said what, or who is more in the wrong, and more on how we are dealing with things, either in life, family, or how the conflict or other issues are hurting and how we're dealing with it.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

That's what the perpetual anger does for you. It convinces you that your side is so morally correct that anyone who disagrees is just as bad as any of the bad actors.

That's the funny part though, is that I'm not perpetually angry. I don't consume TV news at all. I'm a middle class white male, with adult white children whose lives will be minimally affected either way politics ends up. That's the privilege I was born into.

But it's definitely a both sides problem and you should continue believing that all the way up until the end of American democracy. Then you'll act surprised about what went wrong.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

That's what the perpetual anger does for you. It convinces you that your side is so morally correct that anyone who disagrees is just as bad as any of the bad actors.

But what are they angry about. They were in charge and did nothing with it.

They resent what? That it isn't the 50's anymore? That the world isn't US centric anymore?

That working a factory job doesn't help you survive or have a future?

Whiteness? Blackness? Education? Sex? Feminism?

I'm just not sure what angers them? They hate everyone and I don't get that from TV, I see it in postings, and chatter in public.

I really think for rich Republicans are enjoying the fu I got mine. The Trumpists just want everything to burn.

[PilotMan]

Luckily for me, I did have a very strategically scheduled appointment with my therapist. I've been seeing someone about once a month to help with this whole adjustment from the kids getting older and our family dynamics changing to my parents and my own personal issues. Once a month is good to just check in, and it's more often than I hang out with friends, so I get the chance to unload things that are bothering me.

As for my dad.....I have been pulling back from that relationship for a long time. My parents divorced at 2 and I lived with my mom, and aside from my uncle and a youth pastor, I had zero strong male role models in my life on a regular basis. I spent a big part of my life trying to have 'more' from the relationship with my dad, that I currently had at that time. We've been through good times, and there were times I didn't talk to him for 6 months or more. No matter how weak the tie is, there is always, always a need for a son to have the love, attention and adoration from his dad. Coming to grips with the breaking of that bond, as I have become my own man, own father, and am far, far better at all those things than he ever could dream of, is part of all of this.

I was reminded this week that he isn't deserving of that level of attention or emotion from me any longer. And that maintaining those emotional boundaries has been a big part of my healing process. It's still a work in progress obviously.

I told my wife that there's a part of me that just wishes that he would get covid and die. That's not something I want to hear myself say, and it's not like I want to be right that bad, but I want to in part, be free from his BS. I could see, maybe just going along with the prevailing attitude early last year, that this was minor and would blow over, and being like, yeah, whatever. But at this point, after everything we've been though, and all the data and information, like the pictures of the massive funeral fires in India, how can you maintain that, other than through sheer ignorance and callous, purposeful lack of caring and understanding. That, for me, is the hardest part to swallow for a man who is a pilot, like me, and has seen a lot of life and the world. It's just an incredibly selfish point of view, and you know, that's exactly what he is. Incredibly selfish. Always has been.

He came back from being shot down and a POW in Vietnam at the age of 23. He had been a POW for 6 months, and was MIA here that entire time. The world celebrated him, he attended parties at the White House, met celebrities, and ultimately had a kid, and divorced my mom. They were on the rocks before I came along, she had already had one miscarriage, and they had already separated once. He was a serial cheater, and he probably never gave that up until his 3rd wife. His whole life has revolved around that persona. That's a lot of attention to heap onto someone who likes to be the center of attention, and it really sets the course for your life. He's always sped everywhere, doesn't care about how much tickets cost, or whether or not he'll get his license suspended. He's got Purple Heart plates, and he gets out of nearly everything. That's been his life. It's hard to fit anything else in when your head is that big.

For me, it's a years long process to overcome what I never had. For him, all this is a Monday. A Monday that passed, many, many years ago. Parents, don't fuck up your kids like this.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Luckily for me, I did have a very strategically scheduled appointment with my therapist. I've been seeing someone about once a month to help with this whole adjustment from the kids getting older and our family dynamics changing to my parents and my own personal issues. Once a month is good to just check in, and it's more often than I hang out with friends, so I get the chance to unload things that are bothering me.

As for my dad.....I have been pulling back from that relationship for a long time. My parents divorced at 2 and I lived with my mom, and aside from my uncle and a youth pastor, I had zero strong male role models in my life on a regular basis. I spent a big part of my life trying to have 'more' from the relationship with my dad, that I currently had at that time. We've been through good times, and there were times I didn't talk to him for 6 months or more. No matter how weak the tie is, there is always, always a need for a son to have the love, attention and adoration from his dad. Coming to grips with the breaking of that bond, as I have become my own man, own father, and am far, far better at all those things than he ever could dream of, is part of all of this.

I was reminded this week that he isn't deserving of that level of attention or emotion from me any longer. And that maintaining those emotional boundaries has been a big part of my healing process. It's still a work in progress obviously.

I told my wife that there's a part of me that just wishes that he would get covid and die. That's not something I want to hear myself say, and it's not like I want to be right that bad, but I want to in part, be free from his BS. I could see, maybe just going along with the prevailing attitude early last year, that this was minor and would blow over, and being like, yeah, whatever. But at this point, after everything we've been though, and all the data and information, like the pictures of the massive funeral fires in India, how can you maintain that, other than through sheer ignorance and callous, purposeful lack of caring and understanding. That, for me, is the hardest part to swallow for a man who is a pilot, like me, and has seen a lot of life and the world. It's just an incredibly selfish point of view, and you know, that's exactly what he is. Incredibly selfish. Always has been.

He came back from being shot down and a POW in Vietnam at the age of 23. He had been a POW for 6 months, and was MIA here that entire time. The world celebrated him, he attended parties at the White House, met celebrities, and ultimately had a kid, and divorced my mom. They were on the rocks before I came along, she had already had one miscarriage, and they had already separated once. He was a serial cheater, and he probably never gave that up until his 3rd wife. His whole life has revolved around that persona. That's a lot of attention to heap onto someone who likes to be the center of attention, and it really sets the course for your life. He's always sped everywhere, doesn't care about how much tickets cost, or whether or not he'll get his license suspended. He's got Purple Heart plates, and he gets out of nearly everything. That's been his life. It's hard to fit anything else in when your head is that big.

For me, it's a years long process to overcome what I never had. For him, all this is a Monday. A Monday that passed, many, many years ago. Parents, don't fuck up your kids like this.

I feel for you. I'm not the birth father to my daughter yet I raised her with my girlfriend when she was six months pregnant.

My wife (not the same woman) and I adopted her this past year.

She has no relationship with her birth father who has been in and out of prison and who has several children from different relationships.

She has a fractured relationship with her mother to the point of at 13 moving up to Pennsylvania from Texas to live with my wife and me (we had her visit every summer).

Her mother is a manipulator with no motherly instincts. I tried to explain to my daughter that whatever hope she has in a relationship it's probably not going to happen to her expectations.

My daughter has excelled and while we don't always agree to things, she knows we love her, accept her and are proud of her (we tell her this like we tell my other children).

I wonder what direction she would've went if I hadn't made that choice. I think she's a survivor and she would've excelled even without my involvement. But I always showed her that this was safe harbor and that I'd always be there for her.

Sometimes the best you can do is be there for your own kids and understand that by you breaking the cycle, you've succeeded. You won't get validation from your parents and I hate to tell you this, but you may not get validation from your kids either (at least when they grow up).

But even if my daughter someday in the future would say she wouldn't want to be involved with us (I think that is a rarity but so be it), I would stand by my decision.

I love my kids and my parents have always been supportive and loving but I've seen bad parent child dynamics. It's sad.

You need to embrace yourself in the love you get.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Let's keep this less about who did or said what, or who is more in the wrong, and more on how we are dealing with things, either in life, family, or how the conflict or other issues are hurting and how we're dealing with it.

I'm basically in the same situation as you, although not as direct. My parents are full-on Trumpers, live in Texas, watch all of that poisonous TV BS, etc. My brother is in between it all and I think has basically told my parents not to talk politics with me because they rarely ever bring anything up when we talk or are together. My brother's a "fiscal policy over everything else" person, which pisses me off even more because he can see what's going on and yet all he cares about is how it personally affects his bottom line, but he's at least rational about most things and we can have a good dialogue. My parents... no way.

I'm not happy walking on eggshells around my parents because it's stressful as hell, but I only see them 2-3 times a year, tops, and it's just not worth my mental health to get into it with them. The trade-off in terms of time I have to deal with them versus the destruction to our relationship and how much of my life would be consumed by the fallout is just not worth it. And I'm not changing their minds, nor am I going to coddle them and their views as somehow legitimate (at least on the big, core issues). No good could come from talking about it, from my perspective.

So, I just hold my breath and hope nothing explosive happens when we're together. The recent comments from Lindell really hit home for me because he was talking about doing something the week of Thanksgiving so it blows up and causes fistfights amongst family during Thanksgiving. Because that's totally what would occur (not a literally fistfight, of course, but I'd probably tell my parents their visit is cut short and they can head home if things went too sideways).

I fully realize my position is a total cop-out and I'm not doing my part to help things, but nothing is going to change their positions and the only way it will end is when they are gone, sadly.

[Ksyrup]

The other thing I'll say is I have otherwise had a great relationship with my parents, although once I moved away, we have never been particularly close. We see each other a few times a year and that's it. But I had a great childhood, my parents sacrificed a ton for me and my brother (I'm a lawyer, he's a doctor, so they did something right), and I appreciate all of that. But where we are now, if they weren't my parents, I would never have a relationship with them.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The other thing I'll say is I have otherwise had a great relationship with my parents, although once I moved away, we have never been particularly close. We see each other a few times a year and that's it. But I had a great childhood, my parents sacrificed a ton for me and my brother (I'm a lawyer, he's a doctor, so they did something right), and I appreciate all of that. But where we are now, if they weren't my parents, I would never have a relationship with them.

This is really sad. It doesn't sound like you have a beef with them (e.g. this distancing happened before Trump) but yet grew apart.

You had a great childhood so what happened?

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Edward64

This is really sad. It doesn't sound like you have a beef with them (e.g. this distancing happened before Trump) but yet grew apart.

You had a great childhood so what happened?

Eh, probably the easiest explanation is... it's me, not them. It's the internal struggle between striving to be a different/better version of myself and realizing that some things will never (and can never) change.

I happened to see Amigo the Devil last night, and I had this top of mind as he performed this song:

The distance from the man that I am to the man I want to be
The time it takes to realize time is the distance I need

But I was born impatient
And I was born unkind
But I refuse to believe I have to be the same person I was born when I die
'Cause change is alright
Change is alright

I'm not proud of all the choices I've made for a lot of my life
Following the shadow when I damn well know that behind me is the light

But I've lied to my mother
I made people feel like hell
But I refuse to believe I have to keep being cruel 'cause I'm a coward myself

But time isn't patience
No, patience takes time
Excuses will only do good if you're waiting around to die

Everyone is born with self worth
How easily it turns to doubt
It takes letting go of what we know we can't live without

But the blood in the water
It is the blood of my brother
We both learned it didn't mean a thing in the end if one was thicker than the other

And I've tried having faith
But I'll rot like a dove
'Cause I've always been scared of loving someone just a little bit more than I'm loved

Losing is fine
Everything is fine

[Brian Swartz]

I hope my situation will be of some use to the people here. In recent weeks I've lost relationships, none of them by my choice, on both ends. A former co-worker who I've tried to help before and be a positive influence on, genuinely decent guy, doesn't want to speak to me anymore because I'm not down with Q. Two of my brothers and their wives have cut me off because I'm not liberal enough.

I could say more specifically but won't because I really want to keep this apolitical. What really bothers me most is the cultural divide. Our extended family being split in half is literally something I never imagined could happen prior to the pandemic. We've always accepted each other and been tolerant. It's painful for me to be told that people I've genuinely cared about for years only want to speak to people who agree with them completely on what they consider key issues - and in one case it's way beyond issues that aren't even current hot buttons of debate in our society. Voting for the 'right' person isn't even enough.

Not in the least bit of a mocking sense, I find myself questioning why we can't all just get along. It eats at me fairly equally on both the personal and societal levels. When we're split enough that, even if it's 100% my fault, I can't be tolerated by either extreme - and relatively speaking, my family members aren't even that extreme so there's further levels beyond that - yeah. I've never been less at ease about our society. The irreducible minimums that I've always assumed of people continuing to treat each other with what I would consider basic respect are increasingly no longer there. I've bent over backwards to keep the doors of communication propped open, but I can't get on board with a 'my way or the highway' approach.

I'll get over this. I don't know if our society will. I don't mentally, emotionally, or in any other way want to deal with the consequences of that.

[Edward64]

There's been other posts here about family relationships breaking apart because of politics. They majority of people on this board has to always be right about their politics & societal stance. And that is okay in an anonymous (for the most part) board. But when it comes around family, is it worth it?

Basically, you have a choice on whether you really want to reconnect. You say you've "bent over backwards to keep the doors of communication open". This seems more passive vs active.

I'm guessing you haven't told the brothers & wives you're sorry. You don't have to say you were wrong in your beliefs, just say you're "sorry about the mess, sorry I offended you, want to reconnect with them, I can see where you are coming from etc.". Whatever mea culpa to appease those you have offended. Doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, say the right words and then do the right things (offer to babysit?). And once repaired, just don't get into it with them.

For the Q guy, some folks are a lost cause.

[GrantDawg]

Sorry you are going through that, Brian. I guess I have been fortunate that the only relationship I have lost has been by my choice. I am mostly surrounded by people on the opposite political spectrum, but of those whom I am closest to, they are not extremist. We generally just dodge political talk without issue. Even when something does come up, I can pretty much keep from being confrontational. My sisters recent nutter turn is the only example of someone really going off the deep end, but we really didn't have much of a relationship anyway.

[Flasch186]

Long story short, Im a Real Estate Broker and on the Grievance board of our local assoc. tasked with enforcing the Code of ethics. I filed a complaint against a dude and his broker because he is employed at a local cash wholesaling co wherein he is paid a salary so he is a "representative" of them. They field calls from desperate sellers and Article one of the NAR COE is that you're always a Realtor and beholden to ethics. Well, They take advantage of said sellers and don't disclose their relationships with the buyer, they market the home for an egregious "assignment fee" instead of calling it a commission and in essence, IMO, they're stealing from he public. I presented the case thoroughly citing florida statute, agency definitions, definitions of "listings vs listing content" which NAR has already captured in a policy manual that you cant say its not a "listing" when it has all the same stuff of a listing... Anyways I threw the book at them and the local Professional standards group that listened clearly didn't understand what this group is doing. I literally had to explain the underbelly of the industry to them in the hearing. In the end, they found them not guilty and the public is going to get fucked here as this is now a blessing to screw the public and hide opaquely people's expertise, relationship to the buyer, amount of equity they're stealing from homeowners, etc. So I resigned from the Grievance committee and will spend more time with my family, brokerage and agents I can affect to do the right thing for the public but it was disheartening to see. I left in a Jerry Maguire kind of way informing the higher-ups that the PS committee got it wrong, why and how egregious it was. I told them I hoped that they could get involved and right the wrong but that I couldn't be a supporter of a group that flouts Florida State through not being smart enough to read it and understand it or that couldn't understand the horrible thing that the culprits are doing. I also don't want to spend more time on it to the detriment of my mental health or the time I spend with those that are important. I wish them the best but F em. They say one thing about how they care for the public but do nothing when the rubber meets the road due to greed.

[Lathum]

Did you leave a letter in all their mailboxes?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I hope my situation will be of some use to the people here. In recent weeks I've lost relationships, none of them by my choice, on both ends. A former co-worker who I've tried to help before and be a positive influence on, genuinely decent guy, doesn't want to speak to me anymore because I'm not down with Q. Two of my brothers and their wives have cut me off because I'm not liberal enough.

I could say more specifically but won't because I really want to keep this apolitical. What really bothers me most is the cultural divide. Our extended family being split in half is literally something I never imagined could happen prior to the pandemic. We've always accepted each other and been tolerant. It's painful for me to be told that people I've genuinely cared about for years only want to speak to people who agree with them completely on what they consider key issues - and in one case it's way beyond issues that are even current hot buttons of debate in our society. Voting for the 'right' person isn't even enough.

Not in the least bit of a mocking sense, I find myself questioning why we can't all just get along. It eats at me fairly equally on both the personal and societal levels. When we're split enough that, even if it's 100% my fault, I can't be tolerated by either extreme - and relatively speaking, my family members aren't even that extreme so there's further levels beyond that - yeah. I've never been less at ease about our society. The irreducible minimums that I've always assumed of people continuing to treat each other with what I would consider basic respect are increasingly no longer there. I've bent over backwards to keep the doors of communication propped open, but I can't get on board with a 'my way or the highway' approach.

I'll get over this. I don't know if our society will. I don't mentally, emotionally, or in any other way want to deal with the consequences of that.

The Q guy is probably a lost cause. Those people need serious therapy and reprograming.

We have a strict no politics rule with the family. My dad leans very right, but also realizes Trumps flaws, so we can have a conversation. My MIL is a total lost cause and I worry about Q with her. She is 1000% on board with Trump and can not be reasoned with to the point myself, wife, and SIL all unfollowed her on facebook. The interesting thing is my FIL has completely reversed and is totally against Trump. He is always telling my MIL to stop arguing with people on facebook but she can't let it go to where it has hurt peripheral relationships.

I would talk to your brothers, apologize, and just had a no politics rule moving forward.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

There's been other posts here about family relationships breaking apart because of politics. They majority of people on this board has to always be right about their politics & societal stance. And that is okay in an anonymous (for the most part) board. But when it comes around family, is it worth it?

Basically, you have a choice on whether you really want to reconnect. You say you've "bent over backwards to keep the doors of communication open". This seems more passive vs active.

I'm guessing you haven't told the brothers & wives you're sorry. You don't have to say you were wrong in your beliefs, just say you're "sorry about the mess, sorry I offended you, want to reconnect with them, I can see where you are coming from etc.". Whatever mea culpa to appease those you have offended. Doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, say the right words and then do the right things (offer to babysit?). And once repaired, just don't get into it with them.

For the Q guy, some folks are a lost cause.

I am not trying to be disrespectful but I would argue that this approach is a large part of the reason why we are here.

I feel like all of us on both sides of the divide believe we have been apologizing, letting things slide, appeasing the other side on every issue forever. Then when we believe it is time for the other side to the same, well then the other side says they can't give on that issue. Both sides are doing the same thing to varying levels of success. At some point, both sides have made the decision that compromising on anything is weakness that they can not recover from. You are either with us everything or against us on anything.


I read something a long time about being and staying married that I think fits with the divide. You can win the argument or you can win the relationship. If you are winning all the arguments, you will probably lose the relationship. Right now, it is all about winning the arguments.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am not trying to be disrespectful but I would argue that this approach is a large part of the reason why we are here.

I feel like all of us on both sides of the divide believe we have been apologizing, letting things slide, appeasing the other side on every issue forever. Then when we believe it is time for the other side to the same, well then the other side says they can't give on that issue. Both sides are doing the same thing to varying levels of success. At some point, both sides have made the decision that compromising on anything is weakness that they can not recover from. You are either with us everything or against us on anything.

I would agree on this except this deals with immediate family. There is a grey area with in-laws but 2 brothers is a lot of give up. Additionally, there may be some niece & nephews involved ... it's a high price to pay to miss out in all those relationships just "to be right" (regardless if you really are or not).

Full disclosure, I am estranged from my brother and sister. It has nothing to do with politics or social issues but how they treated our mother. I try to stay connected with nieces and nephews but frak my siblings. My side of the family is irreparably fractured.

Discussing politics is easily avoided. Too high of a price to pay IMO.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I would agree on this except this deals with immediate family. There is a grey area with in-laws but 2 brothers is a lot of give up. Additionally, there may be some niece & nephews involved ... it's a high price to pay to miss out in all those relationships just "to be right" (regardless if you really are or not).

Full disclosure, I am estranged from my brother and sister. It has nothing to do with politics or social issues but how they treated our mother. I try to stay connected with nieces and nephews but frak my siblings. My side of the family is irreparably fractured.

Discussing politics is easily avoided. Too high of a price to pay IMO.

If it was easily avoidable, we would not have the issues that we have today.

I think it is especially important with immediate family. Those are supposed to be the people with whom you can be your most authentic self. Those are the people that you should be able to say that while I disagree with any or all of your political opinions, I love you anyways. It is not about being right or not for me.

That is not to say that we all don't have a line. We do and we should. I don't believe anyone should have to compromise all their principles in order to keep the family together. It is all about where that line is.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Basically, you have a choice on whether you really want to reconnect. You say you've "bent over backwards to keep the doors of communication open". This seems more passive vs active.

I don't think I really do have a choice. To be more specific on what has happened, this isn't a case of me having spouted off on something that offended them. I didn't bring up the topics that have caused the separation. They brought up things they know I believe and told me if I don't agree with them on those issues our relationship is over.

My only option in terms of reconnecting is to tell them I believe something I don't. It's been made very clear to me no other solution is acceptable. Not discussing politics with them isn't enough, I was already doing that before the recent blow-ups. They don't want to have a relationship with anyone who doesn't share their values. I don't want a division in the family but that's far preferable to being a puppet.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I don't think I really do have a choice. To be more specific on what has happened, this isn't a case of me having spouted off on something that offended them. I didn't bring up the topics that have caused the separation. They brought up things they know I believe and told me if I don't agree with them on those issues our relationship is over.

My only option in terms of reconnecting is to tell them I believe something I don't. It's been made very clear to me no other solution is acceptable. Not discussing politics with them isn't enough, I was already doing that before the recent blow-ups. They don't want to have a relationship with anyone who doesn't share their values. I don't want a division in the family but that's far preferable to being a puppet.

That's on them. Totally not your fault.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

That's on them. Totally not your fault.

I agree.

But do make a commitment to stay connected with any nieces, nephews if at all possible.

[Brian Swartz]

There aren't any on those sides of the family, and none expected anytime soon. But I agree and that will be a goal going forward.

[spleen1015]

The dad of one of my daughter's travel teammates found out he had cancer in September and he died last night. Very sad.

This gets me thinking about my own mortality and what I'm doing with my life. I don't really do anything meaningful. I have kids, they're both doing alright. One is in the USAF, the other a freshman in college.

I watch sports, watch tv shows with my wife, and play video games. That's pretty much my free time.

Do you guys ever question WTF you're doing with your life?

[sabotai]

A friend of mine posted a comic to Facebook awhile ago (can't find it and google isn't being helpful). It was one frame with a guy on his deathbed saying something like "I shouldn't have gone to all those concerts". The joke being that no one ever regrets going to a ton of concerts in their life. (Aside from a few exceptions, including a recent one)

So I applied that line to a lot of things I do in life to see if they hit a nerve.

"I shouldn't have read all those books." Nope. Not even the bad ones.

"I shouldn't have walked so much at the park" Nope

"I shouldn't have gone hiking so much." Nope (although it's years since I've been)

"I shouldn't have watched all those movies." 99% Nope. Even the bad ones. (The good thing about moves is they usually just last 1.5 to 3 hours. Unlike a lot of shows that can binged over several days and eat away an entire week, maybe more)

"I shouldn't have played all those video games" .... yeah, this one hits somewhat. I don't regret spending 200 hours playing Skyrim, I do regret the other 200 where I repeatedly started a new game and played for 2-10 hours only to be bored most of time trying to recapture that "playing Skyrim for the first time" feeling. I'd say a good 25%, maybe more, of the time I spend playing games was me trying to play them "for the first time" again, so to speak. I end up more stressed after 2 hours of doing that than I was beforehand. A lot of wasted afternoons trying to play various Final Fantasies again, Skyrim again, Fallout 4 again...

"I shouldn't have watched so much TV" .. yeah, this one hits too. I don't regret most of my TV watching. I just recently watched through Peaky Blinders. Great show. Well, season 1-3. 4-5 were kinda "meh". Don't regret a minute of it. What I do regret is allowing myself to watch so much TV when I should be doing other things. I regret spending so much time not watching a specific show, just watching "whatever's on". I do regret all the times I watched shows again, much like with video games, trying to recapture that feeling of watching them for the first time, only to immediately hate myself after a few episodes because I wasted yet another afternoon and/or evening.

"I shouldn't have spent so much time on reddit" That one hurts. That one hurts real bad.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

The dad of one of my daughter's travel teammates found out he had cancer in September and he died last night. Very sad.

This gets me thinking about my own mortality and what I'm doing with my life. I don't really do anything meaningful. I have kids, they're both doing alright. One is in the USAF, the other a freshman in college.

I watch sports, watch tv shows with my wife, and play video games. That's pretty much my free time.

Do you guys ever question WTF you're doing with your life?

Nope. As long as I’m happy and I make the people around me happy while being the best husband, father, son etc. I can be then I’ll die thinking it’s been a life well led.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Do you guys ever question WTF you're doing with your life?

Constantly. I think some of what I do is of significance; there are other things that are not and just wasteful. I think most of significance ultimately boils down to what impact we have on others, which expands exponentially to their impact on others we will never meet, and so on. From what you've described, I would say there's a lot of significance to be found potentially in your family interactions.

[tarcone]

I am on a mood enhancer and an anti-anxiety medication. I just decided it was time. I feel better and am glad I took the plunge. Better living through chemistry.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

The dad of one of my daughter's travel teammates found out he had cancer in September and he died last night. Very sad.

This gets me thinking about my own mortality and what I'm doing with my life. I don't really do anything meaningful. I have kids, they're both doing alright. One is in the USAF, the other a freshman in college.

I watch sports, watch tv shows with my wife, and play video games. That's pretty much my free time.

Do you guys ever question WTF you're doing with your life?

Absolutely. It is usually followed by me asking myself two questions.

Why don't I think what I am doing with my life isn't already meaningful?

Who gets to determine whether or not what I am doing with my life is meaningful or not?

Answering the first question allows me to remind myself what is meaningful to me. It also helps me examine if I may have pushed something that is meaningful to me to the side that I need to bring back to the forefront. If all else fails, I have reminders that I am living am living a meaningful life or ways add a little meaning when needed.

Answering the second question ensure that I am being fair to myself and not using unreasonable standards to judge meaning.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

The dad of one of my daughter's travel teammates found out he had cancer in September and he died last night. Very sad.

This gets me thinking about my own mortality and what I'm doing with my life. I don't really do anything meaningful. I have kids, they're both doing alright. One is in the USAF, the other a freshman in college.

I watch sports, watch tv shows with my wife, and play video games. That's pretty much my free time.

Do you guys ever question WTF you're doing with your life?

I'm almost to the next phase.

The current phase is to raise my family as best as I can, get kids brought up right, get them an education, give them some memorable experiences, jump start them in adult life etc. and get us financially ready for retirement.

We're close to the next phase and I've thought about what to do with my life. I love to travel and experience different countries, culture, food etc.

An option I'm thinking is to teach English in developing nations. We take English for granted here but knowing English can be a major advantage to kids in developing countries. Not going to do it FT and don't need to get paid. A way to give back and make an impact for some kids.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by sabotai

"I shouldn't have spent so much time on reddit" That one hurts. That one hurts real bad.

I feel attacked

(also, I think there are different types of destressors - like you need that quick dopamine hit from Reddit to help you calm down that, say, a movie isn't going to give you, especially when you don't have 2 hours to dump into it)

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Do you guys ever question WTF you're doing with your life?

Not really, no.

"Where did I fuck this up" and "How did it get THIS fucked up?" on the other hand ... but I quickly try to squash those because a) I'm not gonna reach a conclusion, and b) not like knowing where would unfuck it so what'd be the point.

[cuervo72]

I don't know, man. I mean, long ago I realized I wasn't going to cure cancer. I just want to chill and enjoy myself the best I can (or the best that others will allow me to). I've told my youngest that regarding school; don't feel like you have to strive for that brass ring if it's not going to make you happy. And life isn't about racking up a high score. If you can survive doing something that makes you much more happy than doing something else, forget doing the something else.

I have cut down on the mindless TV and video games. I mean now and then I will some if I'm in the mood. But nowhere near what I used to.

[Kodos]

I agree with cuervo. Over the past few years, I've tried to readjust my mindset. For a long time, I was down on myself because I am an underachiever amongst my college friends. I've just never had the drive or the direction to be a big achiever and earn tons of money. I'm just not made that way. But my family is doing fine money-wise between what my wife and I make, and I think I have been a good father (my most important job). My wife is more career-focused than I am, so I pick up slack around the house so she can put in longer hours. I try to focus more on being a good person and contributing to the common good now. I don't have to change the world, or even be remembered outside of my family and a small group of friends. I try to do little things to nudge the world in a better direction. Trying to be a good person is good enough in my book.

[Qwikshot]

I just found out my ex-girlfriend's mom has cancer on the spine and it's terminal. Of course, my wife and I adopted my daughter earlier this year and she's been living with us since she was 13 (gonna be 21 this January).

My dad is handling his cancer well. He has some dark humor about it, but he's got his affairs in order. My mom had knee replacement surgery two weeks ago and is recovering well.

On my wife's side, my mother in law is basically going to be in long term care. She's having mental issues and throwing her waste at the wall when she's not responded to fast enough (I don't know if her issues are legitimate or not). My father in law has basically shut down and is struggling to proceed in determining end of life care for his wife and him. Thanksgiving will be interesting.

Back to my parents, my mom has been hinting my dad gets tired more often and our yearly trip to the shore, they seem to be reminding us will be ending some time in the future. I don't know how to respond to that. I don't know if things are progressing faster than they are letting on.

I let my kids spend as much time as possible with them. My oldest drives down and makes time.

My oldest is transferring from Kutztown to an online only program with Arizona State. I'm trusting her because she's not ever proven me wrong. I'm so damned proud of her.

The boys are doing fine. They have their good days and bad days.

My wife's biggest challenge is paying off her credit card bill, she has gotten therapy and meds for depression and it seems to have her better focused.

As for me, I got a promotion (in name only). I'm working for my PMP, Greenbelt and GMP professional certifications. I'd like to get my MBA but that'll wait for now. I play guitar and drums when I can, but mainly try to be a good dad. I'm so damned lucky on that.

Wife wants another kid, but I worry about bringing another kid here especially if my dad is gone. My mom and dad have done so much for me and my brother that I feel like I would be cheating that kid out of the love and care they've had for us and their grandchildren. (Imagine being told of Disney trips and trips to the shore etc and finding out you weren't going to get that experience?)

My migraines have been held in check by a mouth guard (must've been grinding my teeth) and chiropractic work on my jaw.

I know the next few years are going to be the hard ones. I can't imagine my life without my parents. I love my wife and kids, but to not have them to reach out to, in times of trouble or need, or just for talk. It saddens me, and it saddens me they may be in pain in their end years.

I keep telling my wife when my dad goes that the safety net will be gone, and I know I'm lucky to have had one for so long but in some ways that makes things harder because I was so used to it (not that I did anything to risk it or abuse it).

As for indulgences, I have my movies, music and musical equipment. I try to introduce my kids to all types of music. My nine year old can play music by ear on his viola. He takes that for granted.

I worry about the future for them. I'll be 46 in 21 days. I'm not scared of being 50 in a few years but I never imagined it.

I don't have dreams for myself anymore, I just want to make sure my kids can live and grow and be happy and capable of being on their own. My daughter is almost there, but the boys, I just want to make sure they can be just as happy and successful. It's scary to think the one will be a teen in 4 years.

I don't have a single regret on my life. I don't need to be richer or more influential, but I have found I've pared down on social life.

I think the scariest thought I had when the boys would be fully grown and out of the house, how empty it felt, how quiet it was. I'm glad I got a few years before that.

[sabotai]

I mean, I'm in the same boat as cuervo and Kodos for the most part. I'm down with a nice relaxing life, but I do have goals, most of which have nothing to do with making lots of money. I want to be able to play the piano, I want to be able to watch movies and TV shows in a few foreign languages without subtitles. I enjoy working on programming projects, most of which are just for personal use. But being able to do those things doesn't happen if I just binge watch TV shows or play games all day, and sometimes it's hard to turn away from the steady supply of dopamine the pretty flashing lights provides. And then years go by and suddenly I'm 44, and I'm still not able to do those things and I have a hard drive full of half-finished projects.

It's like that saying: "Discipline is giving up what you want now for what you want most."

When I'm not working towards what I want most and instead give in to what I want now, I feel like shit. But that's not to say I never give myself a break. I'm not sitting here yelling at myself for putting some things on hold for a week+ while I watched a few episodes (and sometimes more) of Peaky Blinders every day. But now it's time to get back to working towards what I want most.

And if all you want most is to be a good spouse, be a good parent and live the rest of your life just relaxing, then more power to you. I offer no judgement. It's up to everyone to decide for themselves what it is they want most.

[Solecismic]

I read recently (I don't think it was here, but it could have been) that we don't regret all the choices we've made or want to relive childhood. What we want is to relive the joy of having choices and losing our innocence (not necessarily sexual innocence, but that, too).

I'm not sure I agree. What I'd like is a different me, to a certain extent. I think a lot about what life could have been. I don't think that's helpful. Because I end up wishing that Soma existed and I could enjoy my caste without a care in the world, happily joining my fellow caste members.

That's a strange wish, but when you've spent a lifetime not knowing what it's like to feel part of something, maybe not so unusual.

I read a lot. It's part of my wind-down routine - it's a safe way to consume entertainment. When it's dark and my wife is sleeping, just lying there with my Kindle, engrossed in a new world... that's something I don't want to give up.

Recently, a novel that resonated was Richard Yates' Revolutionary Road. It was his debut novel and probably his best work by far. It captured so perfectly what it means to feel that way. The first chapter is essentially an allegory about his wife's experience with a community theater production, and his life story ends up being a parallel of sorts. And I just marveled about how someone could so perfectly describe why this Soma fantasy (this isn't a sci-fi tale like Brave New World, nor does it deal with these topics directly) is in itself an illusion. Do any of us really feel part of something?

So... blah, blah, blah... what I'm getting at is an increasing feeling that online life is dangerous. That it fucks with your mental health, more and more. You end up focusing on these do-or-die national issues when what's lost is where you do belong. We're getting more and more out of balance. This metaverse, as Facebook even wants to call itself these days, is simply an alternative to belonging. Family gets lost there. I'm so surprised by people who are willing to give up relationships - even with family members - over something as stupid as a belief about some red/blue division.

It's not the learning about new things - it's the feeling that by interacting with that world, you belong to something. It even can take on a physical form, like the people who spent weeks hanging around Brian Laundrie's parents' house, trying to engage themselves in that story.

So what I truly regret is not being the best son, brother, father, that I could have been. The rest could have followed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I read recently (I don't think it was here, but it could have been) that we don't regret all the choices we've made or want to relive childhood. What we want is to relive the joy of having choices and losing our innocence (not necessarily sexual innocence, but that, too).

This kind of reminds me -- though a different thought, just the same topic if you will -- of a long-time adage I've used "I don't miss the stuff I used to do nearly so much as I miss the energy I had to do it with"

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

I just found out my ex-girlfriend's mom has cancer on the spine and it's terminal. Of course, my wife and I adopted my daughter earlier this year and she's been living with us since she was 13 (gonna be 21 this January).

My dad is handling his cancer well. He has some dark humor about it, but he's got his affairs in order. My mom had knee replacement surgery two weeks ago and is recovering well.

On my wife's side, my mother in law is basically going to be in long term care. She's having mental issues and throwing her waste at the wall when she's not responded to fast enough (I don't know if her issues are legitimate or not). My father in law has basically shut down and is struggling to proceed in determining end of life care for his wife and him. Thanksgiving will be interesting.

Back to my parents, my mom has been hinting my dad gets tired more often and our yearly trip to the shore, they seem to be reminding us will be ending some time in the future. I don't know how to respond to that. I don't know if things are progressing faster than they are letting on.

I let my kids spend as much time as possible with them. My oldest drives down and makes time.

My oldest is transferring from Kutztown to an online only program with Arizona State. I'm trusting her because she's not ever proven me wrong. I'm so damned proud of her.

The boys are doing fine. They have their good days and bad days.

My wife's biggest challenge is paying off her credit card bill, she has gotten therapy and meds for depression and it seems to have her better focused.

As for me, I got a promotion (in name only). I'm working for my PMP, Greenbelt and GMP professional certifications. I'd like to get my MBA but that'll wait for now. I play guitar and drums when I can, but mainly try to be a good dad. I'm so damned lucky on that.

Wife wants another kid, but I worry about bringing another kid here especially if my dad is gone. My mom and dad have done so much for me and my brother that I feel like I would be cheating that kid out of the love and care they've had for us and their grandchildren. (Imagine being told of Disney trips and trips to the shore etc and finding out you weren't going to get that experience?)

My migraines have been held in check by a mouth guard (must've been grinding my teeth) and chiropractic work on my jaw.

I know the next few years are going to be the hard ones. I can't imagine my life without my parents. I love my wife and kids, but to not have them to reach out to, in times of trouble or need, or just for talk. It saddens me, and it saddens me they may be in pain in their end years.

I keep telling my wife when my dad goes that the safety net will be gone, and I know I'm lucky to have had one for so long but in some ways that makes things harder because I was so used to it (not that I did anything to risk it or abuse it).

As for indulgences, I have my movies, music and musical equipment. I try to introduce my kids to all types of music. My nine year old can play music by ear on his viola. He takes that for granted.

I worry about the future for them. I'll be 46 in 21 days. I'm not scared of being 50 in a few years but I never imagined it.

I don't have dreams for myself anymore, I just want to make sure my kids can live and grow and be happy and capable of being on their own. My daughter is almost there, but the boys, I just want to make sure they can be just as happy and successful. It's scary to think the one will be a teen in 4 years.

I don't have a single regret on my life. I don't need to be richer or more influential, but I have found I've pared down on social life.

I think the scariest thought I had when the boys would be fully grown and out of the house, how empty it felt, how quiet it was. I'm glad I got a few years before that.

I'm 46 and there is ZERO chance I am bringing another kid into this world. I did my time with that shit. My friend is a nanny, I hang out with her and the baby enough to be reminded the last thing I want is another one.

As for our parents, yeah...my wifes uncle just passed and I was commenting we are entering a stage of life where we will be going to a lot of funerals. My wifes mom is on year 12 of a heart transplant. My dad is 91 and just went on oxygen. It sucks.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

I don't have dreams for myself anymore, I just want to make sure my kids can live and grow and be happy and capable of being on their own. My daughter is almost there, but the boys, I just want to make sure they can be just as happy and successful. It's scary to think the one will be a teen in 4 years.

I don't have a single regret on my life. I don't need to be richer or more influential, but I have found I've pared down on social life.

Almost eerie how similar to what I say this part is

Dreams? Bwahahah. I'm 54,let's say that my lifestyle isn't particularly healthy and leave it at that. I have nothing really left to do except responsibilities, my VERY few aspirations left aren't realistic for various reasons, and in something I realized some time back that REALLY seems to throw people because I say it casually: I'm on the downhill side of things.

Unless you see me getting to 108 then reality is that I'm past halfway. That's just how it is. What's left is playing out the string.

I actually came here to post a different comment but you've got me beat. Zero regrets is better than my (lower than average IMO) two that I say out loud. 1) ever buying a house in "Hooterville" and 2) putting a damned pool in the backyard here. That's basically it, which I figure is pretty damned good for a lifetime.

There's all sorts of shit that I wish had turned out differently, but that's different that "regret", or how I distinguish them. I mostly figure that all other choices I've made are subject to the butterfly effect and I'd create unacceptable risk for things turning out worse by tinkering with them.
Better to leave well enough alone. I may not have had anyone's idea --hell, including my own -- of a "best life" but it could certainly have been much much worse.

[Ksyrup]

This somewhat ties into my comments above about my relationship with my parents (but from a broader perspective) - that push/pull between aspiring to be a better version of myself and the realization that I'll never change. From that perspective, my only regrets are mainly all the things that were very likely unattainable anyway.

In terms of where I am in life, I decided early on that I was going to side with work/life balance over working my ass off to become insanely rich (if I couldn't do both... and I couldn't!). I just kinda went with the flow throughout life and "fell upward," I guess you could say. The only professional/job crisis of my life turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. I don't have any regrets about specific decisions I've made; it's more about personality traits I could never change or overcome.

Now, I don't know what I would have done with my time/life if I hadn't gotten married and had kids, but that made it easy for me to justify spending my time on family rather than work. That has brought enough meaning to my life to satisfy me.

As I've gotten older and watched myself, others and the world around me change and decay, I've found the concept of wabi-sabi to be comforting. There's beauty in simplicity and imperfection, and nothing lasts forever, especially life. I'm just trying to be a decent person, be good to the people in my life, and enjoy whatever time I have left.

[Izulde]

I've found the older I get, the more any regrets I had are diminishing. I look back at all the possible outcomes that I foresee could have happened, points of clear divergence in which my life would have been radically different, and go, "You know, there's a hell of a lot of worse timelines I could have ended up in."

The ambitions I had when I was younger, many of them I took stabs at, and they didn't pan out. No problem - at least I tried. And some of my ambitions, I still can yet realize (though at 42, some of those windows are getting perilously close to closing. Others I'm sure will remain viable right up until the day that either my mind starts disintegrating or I'm dead - whichever happens first).

I remind myself that I've done a lot of cool shit, and had a lot of experiences that some people will never have and quite frankly would have dreamed of someday having.

My mom, as she was in hospice, was frequently asked if she had any regrets in life. She said no - she'd had an amazing life and done a lot of wonderful things, and there was nothing to regret. Even the things I personally think she would have done differently, there were still great parts that came out of those choices.

Are there different pathways that probably would have led to a better, happier life than I have right now? I'm sure there are. But there's a hell of a lot of to be said for pretty good in a lot of respects - especially since I (and many of us) grew up in a time that proved a liminal and transitional period between the Information Age and the Internet Age. When you live in those border epochs, the percentage chances of a failed, unhappy life are much higher - you can find yourself making the wrong bets/choices and getting a bad ending very easily.

[GrantDawg]

Just got back from the hospital where my mother in law is on her final days. They have been trying to buff her up to get her to a point that she could take another round of chemo for her chronic leukemia. She just kept going the wrong direction. They did a scan yesterday and she has a mass on her pancreas. It is almost certainly cancer, but they can't do a biopsy or she would bleed out. She is in so much pain, but she can't take pain meds because her blood pressure. It is just all so terrible.
I just lost my mom in May. And now I am going to loose a woman that has been like a mom to me. I just spent that last hour in the car crying.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[bhlloy]

So sorry to hear that man… horrible way to go and I can’t imagine what that treatment entails without pain meds from personal experience.

I’m in a pretty bad place mentally the last week, had a 6 month biopsy and some of the tests hadn’t shown progression the way I’d like and then to top it off there was a minuscule amount of disease on the most sensitive scan… could be a false positive so they will retest in a month, and I have to try not to go insane until then.

[Edward64]

Sorry to hear for both of you.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I’m in a pretty bad place mentally the last week, had a 6 month biopsy and some of the tests hadn’t shown progression the way I’d like and then to top it off there was a minuscule amount of disease on the most sensitive scan… could be a false positive so they will retest in a month, and I have to try not to go insane until then.

Having only experience a very small flavor of it, scanxiety is just the worst feeling. Hopefully the next test goes better and you can find peace until then

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Just got back from the hospital where my mother in law is on her final days. They have been trying to buff her up to get her to a point that she could take another round of chemo for her chronic leukemia. She just kept going the wrong direction. They did a scan yesterday and she has a mass on her pancreas. It is almost certainly cancer, but they can't do a biopsy or she would bleed out. She is in so much pain, but she can't take pain meds because her blood pressure. It is just all so terrible.
I just lost my mom in May. And now I am going to loose a woman that has been like a mom to me. I just spent that last hour in the car crying.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

That sounds awful. I'm so sorry

SI

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Just got back from the hospital where my mother in law is on her final days. They have been trying to buff her up to get her to a point that she could take another round of chemo for her chronic leukemia. She just kept going the wrong direction. They did a scan yesterday and she has a mass on her pancreas. It is almost certainly cancer, but they can't do a biopsy or she would bleed out. She is in so much pain, but she can't take pain meds because her blood pressure. It is just all so terrible.

That's horrifying